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5150sick

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put yourself in KPs place. Jai made this video before they had a chance to solve and fix the issue. He even says that in the video. he contacted them on a saturday when they are closed and did not get a response on Sunday so he posted the video Sunday. That is not giving any business the opportunity to fix it. He spent most of the time throwing KP under the bus and trying to hurt them not help anyone who is affected by this. He is disguising his real motivations and you are buying it

Right, so in the meantime people with nickel allergy's NOW know to check their wire when KP may have swept this under the rug
 

eStorm

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Guys, why all that drama again?

We should work together as community and point these kind of things out. There's different ways of doing it sure, but all this verbal hostility isn't helping anyone

. Bad enough that due to mistakes, some people got/have gotten or/and could get hurt/injured. We all know if that's the case, its new fuel for the FDA to say, we told you guys all along, time to ban etc.

Having a divided community isn't helping anyone. Some might not like Jai or youtubers/reviewers in general, I'm no difference with most reviewers, but I personally did like the heads up on that topic. I'm not jumping in to the rescue here, but you need to look at the actual issue/matter here, not how Jai was dressed that day or how he spoke, that you may not agree with.

I personally find some of his videos very entertaining and informative, but I can see why some might hate it. Again I'm not saying go love that guy, but respect goes both ways. I'm all for voicing the opinion on how you dislike that particular youtuber, but it could be done more civil. Let's not come with the excuse but he didn't give kp a chance etc... You're not working or being associated with KP. Not your battle to fight.

This reminds me of the v vs vv bs all over again, its not our fight, don't pick sides lol. If you don't like him great, move on, if you would like to point out flaws/problems with his review or approach of filming it, I'm sure he would listen. Maybe not I don't know the guy lol. But screaming and bad mouthing from both sides, isn't helping the cause.

Same for you Mr. Haze, there's always people not liking you, or being overly offended by whatever you saying/doing. And I know its hard to ignore, especially when triggered, but let's stay focused and concentrate on getting this issue out and looked at, we as a whole community can benefit from that.

Again I'm not siding with anyone, but it should be kept respectful and civil in my opinion, 60 people screaming at each other and name calling, is helping how? exactly.
 

zephyr

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So @Jai Haze doesn't want to get sued and is warning the million other people that buy and sell KP wire that they could get sued too and you guys are all pissed off at HIM for that?

I honestly would have thought about MYSELF first in this situation too since I would have already sold a bunch of the stuff.

Does that make me a bad person for some reason?

But we don't know if he warned Anyone outside of his viewership about the issue! A large note on his sale site, notifications to his consumers, and some posts on vaping forums, or even a video that got to the point quickly....

Hey, you are right though, man. I went too personal on this.
 
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Mattp169

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What about the thousands of other members that have potentially mislabeled wire?

If they fucked up the vapelife wire over 3 orders and many different gauges of wire to think they didn't mislabel anyone else's wire either wouldn't make any sense.
You are absolutely right, no one is arguing or disagreeing that the problem should not be brought to light. But compare that video to one like this
Jai saying he has noticed an issue with the wire they get from KP.
he shows his testing to prove there is an issue.
he then states simply if you bought vapel1fe wire and feel it is mislabled contact them and they will correct the issue.
jai then encourages anyone who feels they have mislabled wire and feels it is affecting their health to seek medical attention
Jai continues and encourages anyone who has bought Vapel1fe or KP puncher wire to check it
then states he is trying to work with KP to resolve this issue and avoid this issue in the future

DONE
Post an update in a few days when a final resolution regardless of how it goes is reached with KP

no name calling, no giving KP nothing but crap for 35 minutes. Show genuine concern for his customers and his fellow business people

Plus he is putting all the blame on KP. It is not all on them. When you order something it is on YOU to verify you got the right thing. He makes a point multiple times of saying how he can SEE the difference between types of wires. Well why did no one at VapeL1fe SEE the difference? The people checking in the order and selling the wire share responsibility for not SEEING the difference by Jai logic. He never throws any of them under the bus for not SEEing the difference

how many other B&Ms have gotten the wrong wire and noticed and contacted KP and resolved the issue without this video. How many regular customers have done the same? You assume that Jai is the only one to notice this issue. If they really are shipping this many mislabeled wire spools, I would think someone else noticed as well.

And if this issue dates back months why is Jai just now noticing and posting a video about it?
 

KingPin!

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Think for a minute that YOU own a B&M and you just found out that at the very LEAST the last three batches of wire KP sent you over multiple gauges are some mystery non-kanthal wire that is labeled as kanthal

(let's be real, There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that two pieces of the same length and gauge kanthal would be 0.125 ohms off. It doesn't matter whose company's kanthal you mix and match the same length of same gauge and type of wire should not be off by that many ohms.)

If someone does have a nickel allergy real bad and ends up in the hospital who do you think will end up getting sued over it????

Remember KP is printing YOUR B&M logo on the wire.
YOU are the one making the sale.
Someone gets sick (or in the last case blows their teeth out because they are unable to practice proper battery safety) YOU are the one who get's screwed not KP.


Now, lets think about where the HUNDREDS (Probably THOUSANDS) of B&M's and small to medium sized online vape shops are using KP's wire right now.
You don't think it's possible that they have been fucking up peoples orders for the last 6 months all over the entire vaping community???

This ^^ agree

Whilst Haze loves a good drama “salty vagina soap box style”, if I was in his situation and had people i may have sold wrong wire to ....how better to stick out a message than on your YouTube channel as well as email them

at least if this goes down a bad road you can say you tried to communicate as quickly as possible to resolve the situation

Id also be asking KP to issue me replacement wire so I could send out corrected orders to customers
 

AnthonyLouis

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I actually enjoy watching Jai Haze videos for the entertainment side of things.... I really can’t stand how over the top he’s been lately though. That mage 2 video was ridiculous. It’s like he trashed it just because he didn’t smash anything in a while. Other then the “drama” he’s pretty entertaining


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AnthonyLouis

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I actually enjoy watching Jai Haze videos for the entertainment side of things.... I really can’t stand how over the top he’s been lately though. That mage 2 video was ridiculous. It’s like he trashed it just because he didn’t smash anything in a while. Other then the “drama” he’s pretty entertaining


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@KingPin!
Can’t lie man... he’s literally my number 1 watched YouTuber lol


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KingPin!

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I actually enjoy watching Jai Haze videos for the entertainment side of things.... I really can’t stand how over the top he’s been lately though. That mage 2 video was ridiculous. It’s like he trashed it just because he didn’t smash anything in a while. Other then the “drama” he’s pretty entertaining


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel the same Anthony some of the drama is completely uncalled for ...I skip them ones felt a bit like that after the phobia review as well....it got worse for a time and I stopped watching, although when he’s level and unbiased it’s a good watch

Must admit though it’s a guilty pleasure watching ...for instance trying to mount a coil in the Luxotic BF rda (whatever it’s name was)was so fucking funny, I’d have been reacting in exactly the same way if that lead kept slipping hahahaha
 

KingPin!

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@KingPin!
Can’t lie man... he’s literally my number 1 watched YouTuber lol


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Biker is mine mate although think he’s been struggling with health lately been reducing his reviews ... liking Todd a lot lately as well drama free zone between them and love the gear Todd gets across his desk it’s second to none
 

AnthonyLouis

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Feel the same Anthony some of the drama is completely uncalled for ...I skip them ones felt a bit like that after the phobia review as well....it got worse for a time and I stopped watching, although when he’s level and unbiased it’s a good watch

Must admit though it’s a guilty pleasure watching ...for instance trying to mount a coil in the Luxotic rda was so fucking funny, I’d have been reacting in exactly the same way if that lead kept slipping hahahaha

Yeah man... no need to lie... credits due where credits due. He’s a funny dude. I don’t agree with some shit he says but I do appreciate how much shit he puts out on his YouTube. No other reviewer putting out as many reviews as him... not that I know of at least. And his inside the minds episodes are brilliant.... again IMO. Yeah dude goes over the top sometimes but he at least speaks his mind on everything and doesn’t hold back. A lot of reviewers will bite their tongue so they keep getting free shit... so wether I agree with his opinions or not, I still value them more then other reviewers. I just came to terms with some things we will not see the same way. Like u mentioned earlier, the Phobia. As you already know, I love my phobia but he trashed it. It is what it is. I also understand 100% about the kidney Puncher issue. It’s not like he bough 1000’ for personal use... he’s buying it and selling it. Bad for business and possible legal action for selling false labeled shit and causing people physical harm. IDK how the legal side of it works but it’s all unnecessary B.S


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SteveS45

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Please lets not forget what the metal in the wire actually is is just a guess because Magnetic Properties and Resistance will not tell you what it is made of. Sure a Magnet reveals it is a ferrous metal but which one?

1b9c22dc-28dc-490f-a83d-aecb08480b9c.png


97687d5c-7621-4303-8dcb-b70beba746c0.png
 

jwill

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I dont know how I feel about this video. Dude seems like a ball bag in how he handled it and the manufacturer seemed extremely willing to remedy the issue and make things right.

The wire is white labeled for his store so it is entirely possible this is an isolated incident due to someone not paying attention while slapping the labels on the wire. An honest mistake if you will.

I would be pissed as a consumer if I was paying a premium for Kanthal A1 and received NI80 so that point is valid and generally a quick call or store visit but the whole thing could have been handled much better.
 

PoppaVic

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Manners are nice, admittedly, but - the amount involved is in numbers that are huge.

I'd also point out that the QA/QC at one end failed, and the other end lacked it until go-time.

Personally, if I was spending that much - that often - on such amounts of wire, I'd contact Temco and Sandvik.
 

SteveS45

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Personally, if I was spending that much - that often - on such amounts of wire, I'd contact Temco and Sandvik.

Would really be funny to find out that was total BS but KP is probably more professional then to stoop to the level of this.
 

PoppaVic

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Would really be funny to find out that was total BS but KP is probably more professional then to stoop to the level of this.
Well, I meant purchase directly from them - rather than screwing with KP.. You are supposed to be a big, professional store - actually, a chain, iirc - and you buy wire from KP instead of their suppliers? Temco certainly can oblige, they got smart and even sell on ebay.
 

SteveS45

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You are supposed to be a big, professional store - actually, a chain, iirc - and you buy wire from KP instead of their suppliers?

Exactly my point, if he actually buys so much then why not be buying direct?
 

SteveS45

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I wonder if he is in the process of making a Video to post about how pissed he is and do his signature "I am so Pissed" move for the camera about how we think that how he reacted was unprofessional or his garage science to determine the type of wire? :crazy:
 

Fiestylillady

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I watched the video twice. I think the issue is the reaction/ non-reaction of the kp rep. If you had a customer telling you I order this from you but you sold me the wrong item and I'm allergic and got sick! He mentioned what his lawyer said to him he wouldn't tell the guy to try and communicate this issue is huge. One order.. okay I can accept your apology and replacement. Several orders and it's not the first time this has happened?! Something doesn't smell right. Even the guy saying they magnetic test it now but it still happened again? C'mon! Wake up and smell the poop.
 

PoppaVic

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well, I too would test with a magnet, and his visual test was - interesting, but...

A mike and a ruler/tape let's you measure dia and roll off a ft, almost any decent meter can test a foot of wire... A chart/table - and temco and sandvik are sure to have both - will report Ω/ft or inch.

Does he order so much that this becomes a major task? Does it require a special hire, or just an hour on receipt? Even visual testing first and physical testing 1-in-10 or so, (if ordering cases)?

Certainly there are metallurgical tests that can be done - and I bet it costs more than the wire and longer than the shipping.

No, to me this should have been caught at KP - and barring that Jai's staff was signing off on receipt. Similarly, every coil Jai's team whipped off and sold is now his responsibility.

I sign for stock at work - I check it in and off - and I goddamned well will drag the owners/management ass over if something looks wrong, (at the least because they will then make out any paperwork - I got WORK to get done - like putting the stock away and rotating ;-).

I do get tired of the tantrums though. I find other entertainment.
 

The Cromwell

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So @Jai Haze doesn't want to get sued and is warning the million other people that buy and sell KP wire that they could get sued too and you guys are all pissed off at HIM for that?

I honestly would have thought about MYSELF first in this situation too since I would have already sold a bunch of the stuff.

Does that make me a bad person for some reason?

An outfit named Kidney Puncher? Whatcha expect?
 

Ralph_K

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I don't trust many YT reviewers seems like most are paid for reviews. This riptrippers dude hasn't found a atomizer he didn't like. Jai might be wrong sometimes on reviews but one of the honest reviewers. If Jai would have made a video saying KP sent him mislabeled wire would be pretty boring without adding some drama. When I buy wire I expect it to be what I ordered and labeled correctly
 

JuicyLucy

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Yeah and from the comments in the other forum it took him a long time to get around to the point.
He seems to be his own biggest fan.

All you gotta do is state your case - because he's such a blow hole, me and a lot of other people never would have known what he was blathering about now

But, also an AVS fan here because that is all they do: good, clean, quality wire
 

The Cromwell

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I enjoy humor from vape reviewers but not drama...
Cut off Vic for all his drama.
 

AnthonyLouis

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Supposedly this has happened to other people as well, not just Jai. So in this respect, I’m happy he made a big deal about it because now others are coming forward about the same issue.


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Mattp169

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Supposedly this has happened to other people as well, not just Jai. So in this respect, I’m happy he made a big deal about it because now others are coming forward about the same issue.


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can you direct me to where you are getting this info that it has happened to others and they are now coming forward
 

5150sick

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Exactly my point, if he actually buys so much then why not be buying direct?

Direct as in buying from KP Distro?
Distro as in Main Distributor
 

pulsevape

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I think that Vanilla Ice wanna be has about as much knowledge of metalurgy as Oen Morteson has about airflow.
 

pulsevape

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Before eviscerating Kidney Puncher it might be wise to have some actual scientific analysis offered...something other than say an hysterical slack jawed jerk off running his refrigerator magnets over a spool of wire....I mean if everything is cool with the wire it seems Kidney Puncher could and should sue the shit out of Jai.
 

CrazyChef v2.0

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Who the fuck is Sandvik? No one ever mentioned them in this thread if my memory serves me right.
I did. In the post that you quoted. It's also who makes all the KP, Temco, and other high quality wires.

EDIT: Actually, YOU mentioned them, just not by name.
Direct as in buying from the MANUFACTURER
 
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zephyr

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Yeah and from the comments in the other forum it took him a long time to get around to the point.
He seems to be his own biggest fan.

It was lengthy, long-winded, rambling, turgid, bombastic, chatty, diffuse, discursive, flatulent, gabby, garrulous, inflated, loquacious, prolix, redundant, rhetorical, tedious, verbose, voluble, windy, pleonastic, palaverous (thesaurus.com)

I also found a few logical fallacies in his video, like
Slippery Slope: This is a conclusion based on the premise that if A happens, then eventually through a series of small steps, through B, C,..., X, Y, Z will happen, too, basically equating A and Z. So, if we don't want Z to occur, A must not be allowed to occur either. Example:

If we ban Hummers because they are bad for the environment eventually the government will ban all cars, so we should not ban Hummers.

In this example, the author is equating banning Hummers with banning all cars, which is not the same thing.

Hasty Generalization: This is a conclusion based on insufficient or biased evidence. In other words, you are rushing to a conclusion before you have all the relevant facts. Example:

Even though it's only the first day, I can tell this is going to be a boring course.

In this example, the author is basing his evaluation of the entire course on only the first day, which is notoriously boring and full of housekeeping tasks for most courses. To make a fair and reasonable evaluation the author must attend not one but several classes, and possibly even examine the textbook, talk to the professor, or talk to others who have previously finished the course in order to have sufficient evidence to base a conclusion on.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc:This is a conclusion that assumes that if 'A' occurred after 'B' then 'B' must have caused 'A.' Example:

I drank bottled water and now I am sick, so the water must have made me sick.

In this example, the author assumes that if one event chronologically follows another the first event must have caused the second. But the illness could have been caused by the burrito the night before, a flu bug that had been working on the body for days, or a chemical spill across campus. There is no reason, without more evidence, to assume the water caused the person to be sick.

Genetic Fallacy: This conclusion is based on an argument that the origins of a person, idea, institute, or theory determine its character, nature, or worth. Example:

The Volkswagen Beetle is an evil car because it was originally designed by Hitler's army.

In this example the author is equating the character of a car with the character of the people who built the car. However, the two are not inherently related.

Begging the Claim: The conclusion that the writer should prove is validated within the claim. Example:

Filthy and polluting coal should be banned.

Arguing that coal pollutes the earth and thus should be banned would be logical. But the very conclusion that should be proved, that coal causes enough pollution to warrant banning its use, is already assumed in the claim by referring to it as "filthy and polluting."

Circular Argument: This restates the argument rather than actually proving it. Example:

George Bush is a good communicator because he speaks effectively.

In this example, the conclusion that Bush is a "good communicator" and the evidence used to prove it "he speaks effectively" are basically the same idea. Specific evidence such as using everyday language, breaking down complex problems, or illustrating his points with humorous stories would be needed to prove either half of the sentence.

Either/or: This is a conclusion that oversimplifies the argument by reducing it to only two sides or choices. Example:

We can either stop using cars or destroy the earth.

In this example, the two choices are presented as the only options, yet the author ignores a range of choices in between such as developing cleaner technology, car-sharing systems for necessities and emergencies, or better community planning to discourage daily driving.

Ad hominem: This is an attack on the character of a person rather than his or her opinions or arguments. Example:

Green Peace's strategies aren't effective because they are all dirty, lazy hippies.

In this example, the author doesn't even name particular strategies Green Peace has suggested, much less evaluate those strategies on their merits. Instead, the author attacks the characters of the individuals in the group.

Ad populum/Bandwagon Appeal: This is an appeal that presents what most people, or a group of people think, in order to persuade one to think the same way. Getting on the bandwagon is one such instance of an ad populum appeal.

Example:

If you were a true American you would support the rights of people to choose whatever vehicle they want.

In this example, the author equates being a "true American," a concept that people want to be associated with, particularly in a time of war, with allowing people to buy any vehicle they want even though there is no inherent connection between the two.

Red Herring: This is a diversionary tactic that avoids the key issues, often by avoiding opposing arguments rather than addressing them. Example:

The level of mercury in seafood may be unsafe, but what will fishers do to support their families?

In this example, the author switches the discussion away from the safety of the food and talks instead about an economic issue, the livelihood of those catching fish. While one issue may affect the other it does not mean we should ignore possible safety issues because of possible economic consequences to a few individuals.

Straw Man: This move oversimplifies an opponent's viewpoint and then attacks that hollow argument.

People who don't support the proposed state minimum wage increase hate the poor.

In this example, the author attributes the worst possible motive to an opponent's position. In reality, however, the opposition probably has more complex and sympathetic arguments to support their point. By not addressing those arguments, the author is not treating the opposition with respect or refuting their position.

Moral Equivalence: This fallacy compares minor misdeeds with major atrocities.

That parking attendant who gave me a ticket is as bad as Hitler.

In this example, the author is comparing the relatively harmless actions of a person doing their job with the horrific actions of Hitler. This comparison is unfair and inaccurate.
(Purdue Owl)

Tl;dr

Did you find this post long and difficult to read through? Add audio and blurry quickpass camera shots of spools, and you have his video. Actual PSAs are short for a reason!

(Sorry for the pointless post)
 
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SteveS45

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You said manufacturer. Sandvik is the manufacturer.

One manufacturer and I find it hard to believe there is only one. When I said the manufacturer I quoted another member and was responding the them to which you decided to interrupt
 

CrazyChef v2.0

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One manufacturer and I find it hard to believe there is only one. When I said the manufacturer I quoted another member and was responding the them to which you decided to interrupt
They're the manufacturer of the wire that this whole freakin' thread is about.
 

SteveS45

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If you look the 2st quote was not responding to you. The rest were responding to you quoting me.
 

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