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vaping health or follow the greed?

The Cromwell

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The US is all about greed.
We do have the best government that money can buy.
 

The Cromwell

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Nicotine is addictive. Been reading many posts on the net about those quitting Juuling going thru a withdrawal.
It is not as addictive as smoking nor as harmful but nic is addictive esp in high doses. Aka those who juul to get a buzz.
 

Amber Petti

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Nicotine is addictive. Been reading many posts on the net about those quitting Juuling going thru a withdrawal.
It is not as addictive as smoking nor as harmful but nic is addictive esp in high doses. Aka those who juul to get a buzz.
This is what I was referring to:

Mary-Jane remains illegal under federal law and critics say legalization at the state level is bad health policy, citing studies which show that the drug can be addictive and affect brain development in young people, in addition to the dangers associated with any kind of smoking.
 

The Cromwell

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This is what I was referring to:

Mary-Jane remains illegal under federal law and critics say legalization at the state level is bad health policy, citing studies which show that the drug can be addictive and affect brain development in young people, in addition to the dangers associated with any kind of smoking.
I cannot totally disagree with that. I would rate the herbal stuff as a higher risk than vaping nic juice for long term health risks.

But I would still do it :D
 

Carambrda

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Nicotine is addictive. Been reading many posts on the net about those quitting Juuling going thru a withdrawal.
It is not as addictive as smoking nor as harmful but nic is addictive esp in high doses. Aka those who juul to get a buzz.
It's the benzoic acid that's making it addictive. Refill an empty Juul pod with a high dose of freebase nic... then just wait and observe. :D
 

The Cromwell

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It's the benzoic acid that's making it addictive. Refill an empty Juul pod with a high dose of freebase nic... then just wait and observe. :D

No it is the nic. The benzoic acid just makes the hig nic level tolerable and encourages addiction.
but yes vaping 60 mg freebase would be hell :)

I support regulating max nic level to 20 mg for mixed juice.
 

Carambrda

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No it is the nic. The benzoic acid just makes the hig nic level tolerable and encourages addiction.
but yes vaping 60 mg freebase would be hell :)

I support regulating max nic level to 20 mg for mixed juice.
No, the benzoic acid doesn't just make the high nic level tolerable. Rather, it also increases the bioavailability of the nic, thereby it causes the nic to be absorbed in the human body multiple times faster when compared to freebase nic, and, this fast absorbtion is what ultimately creates the buzz, whereas freebase nic does not. It explains why people who are never-smokers and who never consumed any nic before, can't get themselves addicted to nic patches, and can't do it no matter how hard they try. It's simply because freebase nic, by itself, is not addictive. But let's assume I'm wrong about that. Nic is very high among THE most studied substances of them all. If it truly is addictive BY ITSELF, then this shouldn't be so terribly hard to prove, right? So then, where's the evidence? Find that.
 

The Cromwell

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No, the benzoic acid doesn't just make the high nic level tolerable. Rather, it also increases the bioavailability of the nic, thereby it causes the nic to be absorbed in the human body multiple times faster when compared to freebase nic, and, this fast absorbtion is what ultimately creates the buzz, whereas freebase nic does not. It explains why people who are never-smokers and who never consumed any nic before, can't get themselves addicted to nic patches, and can't do it no matter how hard they try. It's simply because freebase nic, by itself, is not addictive. But let's assume I'm wrong about that. Nic is very high among THE most studied substances of them all. If it truly is addictive BY ITSELF, then this shouldn't be so terribly hard to prove, right? So then, where's the evidence? Find that.
Still the nic even if the benzoic acid increases the nic availability to the body.Just vape benzoic acid and see if you get addicted to it.

A really bad addiction from nic? Nope not nearly as bad as smoking or other substance abuse.
Easier to get over.
And to me 60 mg nic salts is nic abuse.
 

Carambrda

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Still the nic even if the benzoic acid increases the nic availability to the body.Just vape benzoic acid and see if you get addicted to it.

A really bad addiction from nic? Nope not nearly as bad as smoking or other substance abuse.
Easier to get over.
And to me 60 mg nic salts is nic abuse.
No, you can't get addicted to benzoic acid. But that doesn't imply that nic, by itself, is addictive... the combination of both nic and benzoic acid specifically added together is what's CAUSING the nic to BECOME addictive.

See here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...acco-products-2018-executive-summary#nicotine

4. Nicotine

4.1 Key findings
The addictiveness of nicotine depends on the delivery system.
 

The Cromwell

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No, you can't get addicted to benzoic acid. But that doesn't imply that nic, by itself, is addictive... the combination of both nic and benzoic acid specifically added together is what's CAUSING the nic to BECOME addictive.

See here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...acco-products-2018-executive-summary#nicotine

4. Nicotine

4.1 Key findings
The addictiveness of nicotine depends on the delivery system.

Yes nic salts does enable nic addiction, but it is still nic addiction.
It is not benzoic acid addiction.
 

Carambrda

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Yes nic salts does enable nic addiction, but it is still nic addiction.
It is not benzoic acid addiction.
No, it isn't nic addiction. Instead, it is nic-plus-benzoic-acid addiction. Nic addiction is just an illusion, it's the multi-billion dollar lie. Again, find one piece of reliable evidence to prove I'm wrong.
 

Carambrda

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https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/sites/default/files/media/Documents/Nicotine without smoke.pdf
Under "12.5 Nicotine addiction and its effects" near the bottom of page 183,
Nicotine is the main addictive component of tobacco smoke.
I.e., it is addictive IF used as a component in tobacco smoke.
Although other tobacco smoke components probably contribute to the development of nicotine addiction, it is the capacity to achieve rapid increases in systemic arterial levels through pulmonary absorption that makes tobacco smoking particularly addictive, as well as lethal, although factors such as the taste and smell of cigarette smoke, and the behavioural action of smoking, can reinforce nicotine use and hence themselves become important drivers of continued smoking.
(Emphasis in bold is mine.)
Under "12.6 Non-tobacco nicotine products", near the bottom of page 184 is where they start talking about improved technology such as Juul's addition of benzoic acid in order to increase the degree of nic absorption, i.e. to increase the bioavailability of nic. Specifically,
E-cigarettes offer a behavioural experience that is much closer to smoking than is the case with NRT products, and later-generation e-cigarettes appear able to achieve venous nicotine levels similar to those of tobacco smoking. The extent to which inhalation of e-cigarette vapour results in rapid pulmonary absorption remains uncertain, but it seems likely that, as the technology improves, the degree of pulmonary absorption will increase, making the products more effective as smoking substitutes, but also increasing addictiveness, and hence posing the new ethical problems highlighted above.
But until someone actually proves I'm wrong, with real fact-based evidence, I stand by my conclusion, that 1/ nic patches are not addictive. (Even, if you try to cover your entire body with them, albeit I personally wouldn't recommend trying that.) And that 2/ vaping normal doses of (freebase) nic is not addictive excepting only maybe IF you tailor the delivery device in such a special "improved" way that you effectively are forcing it to become addictive, like, for example, if you throw in enough benzoic acid, specifically to achieve that.
 

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