Become a Patron!

Will US vape shops be ordering anything from China?

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I mean with around 12 weeks to go till May 12 and taking up to 1/3 of that time to get here.
And with the virus thing delaying production and shipping?
And considering the Chinese New year shutdown?
Very little time to sell any new stock that comes in.
Which as things are planned would mean the retailers would be caught with unsalable stock.

I figure what we have in the US hardware wise is all we will have until at least we see how May 12 shakes out.
 
Last edited:

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
heard from 2 different vape distributors elsewhere on the web and this seems to be true. they are both bleeding down to minimal stock and speak of clearance sales and modifying their business to a different product flow to survive.

One I have chatted with recently claims to have secret information about something that will miraculously save vaping by averting the PMTA process?
I would not hold my breath although I really hope he is correct.
 

wildgypsy70

“Widgy Pidgy”
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
I mean with around 12 weeks to go till May 12 and taking up to 1/3 of that time to get here.
And with the virus thing delaying production and shipping?
And considering the Chinese New year shutdown?
Very little time to sell any new stock that comes in.
Which as things are planned would mean the retailers would be caught with unsalable stock.

I figure what we have in the US hardware wise is all we will have until at least we see how May 12 shakes out.
All good points. We shall see what happens. I would be surprised if anyone places another order from China, at this rate.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
For the US.
On May 12 the FDA has been ordered by a court to enforce the Deeming regulations what this means is:
All vape products on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 cannot be sold unless they either have an approved or pending filed PMTA.

All Vape products Not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 cannot be sold until after having an approved PMTA application. Ie passed PMTA process. These products have never been legal to be sold without first having an approved PMTA. But court ordered enforcement begins on May 12.

Currently there are maybe 16 or so vape related PMTA apps in the pipeline.
filiing a PMTA app after May 12 does not grant one the right to continue selling that vape product.
If not filed prior to May 12 the product will have to wait until the PMTA app is approved to be sold.
There is NO guarantee of approval for filing an app.

The other PMTA for such as Sweedish Snus took around 10 months to get approval.
So basically on May 12 all but maybe 16 or so vape products will be illegal to sell in the US.
this includes juice, coils,attys, mods, etc.
 
Last edited:

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm still holding out some small sliver of hope that something will somewhat positive happen before that deadline, but I'm also not holding my breath.

Same here but the hope gets slimmer by the day.
 

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
I got an email from a small juice vendor asking to fill out a survey for their PMTA. I hope they get it, but it seems late in the day to be filing now.

We’ll prolly miss the boat with ordering from China at this point. They’re quarantining over there, factories are shut down for now, the infection may not be slowing down either.

It’s bad timing with Deeming now, too. Don’t look good!
 

BigDisplay

Member For 4 Years
For the US.
On May 12 the FDA has been ordered by a court to enforce the Deeming regulations what this means is:
All vape products on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 cannot be sold unless they either have an approved or pending filed PMTA.

All Vape products Not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 cannot be sold until after having an approved PMTA application. Ie passed PMTA process. These products have never been legal to be sold without first having an approved PMTA. But court ordered enforcement begins on May 12.

Currently there are maybe 16 or so vape related PMTA apps in the pipeline.
filiing a PMTA app after May 12 does not grant one the right to continue selling that vape product.
If not filed prior to May 12 the product will have to wait until the PMTA app is approved to be sold.
There is NO guarantee of approval for filing an app.

The other PMTA for such as Sweedish Snus took around 10 months to get approval.
So basically on May 12 all but maybe 16 or so vape products will be illegal to sell in the US.
this includes juice, coils,attys, mods, etc.
Arrrr Damn it, sounds like our crazy European TPD law

Sendt fra min EVR-L29 med Tapatalk
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
oh, there's probaably many of them.
Yep with all political partys.
They all buy our government. Professional corporate lobbyists?

Were I dictator I would ban ALL paid lobbyists.
Exact expenses only. And ban congress reps from meeting individually with lobbyists.
And set a maximum campaign expenditure for political offices. A figure for Senators, representatives and president. You go over and you are out of the running.
 

Jinx'd

Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Yep with all political partys.
They all buy our government. Professional corporate lobbyists?

Were I dictator I would ban ALL paid lobbyists.
Exact expenses only. And ban congress reps from meeting individually with lobbyists.
And set a maximum campaign expenditure for political offices. A figure for Senators, representatives and president. You go over and you are out of the running.

i will agree with all of that. but to elaborate a bit. one party has taken it to an art form. and, the mediaa needs a big time smack down.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
i will agree with all of that. but to elaborate a bit. one party has taken it to an art form. and, the mediaa needs a big time smack down.

Ohh and as a licencing requirement media would be required to give x amount of time to all candidates free. Remove much of the profit taking from elections.

As a dictator I would just want to fix the problems our govt has.
Not to actually run things myself.
Truly drain the swamp not just replace it with other slime.
Serious corruption by an elected official would fall under the treason category.
Lesser corruption would get them kicked out and barred from elected/appointed offices and loss of pension..

also penalties for crimes committed by elected officials if related to their job would be doubled over the penalty for an avg citizen because of the position of authority and trust they hold.
 
Last edited:

Jinx'd

Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Ohh and as a licencing requirement media would be required to give x amount of time to all candidates free. Remove much of the profit taking from elections.

As a dictator I would just want to fix the problems our govt has.
Not to actually run things myself.
Truly drain the swamp not just replace it with other slime.
Serious corruption by an elected official would fall under the treason category.
Lesser corruption would get them kicked out and barred from elected/appointed offices and loss of pension..

also penalties for crimes committed by elected officials if related to their job would be doubled over the penalty for an avg citizen because of the position of authority and trust they hold.

again, i agree with all of that.
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm not sure the viability or timeline of it but if Trump were to get his way and yank vaping/tobacco oversight from the fda (where it never belonged in the first place), set up a new division to handle it, seems it would undo Judge Grimm's mandate. His was for the FDA to come into compliance and imposed cutoff dates for them. If they're no longer the official custodians of tobacco regulations that whole court ruling and specifics becomes feckless. PMTA date vanishes like a fart in the wind. Not to say similar, identical or some other regulation requirements wouldn't be imposed by the new department but they won't have it ready to roll out upon the creation of such a dept. It'll take them time to sort through and come up with their own rules.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm not sure the viability or timeline of it but if Trump were to get his way and yank vaping/tobacco oversight from the fda (where it never belonged in the first place), set up a new division to handle it, seems it would undo Judge Grimm's mandate. His was for the FDA to come into compliance and imposed cutoff dates for them. If they're no longer the official custodians of tobacco regulations that whole court ruling and specifics becomes feckless. PMTA date vanishes like a fart in the wind. Not to say similar, identical or some other regulation requirements wouldn't be imposed by the new department but they won't have it ready to roll out upon the creation of such a dept. It'll take them time to sort through and come up with their own rules.
But his proposal is in a budget request which will in no way get passed before May. And I do think changes in the law will be required in that proposal which means congress. And virtually no one in congress has the balls to stand up for vaping right now.

I think the Trump proposal of moving vaping is a pipe dream for the short term. And it is clear that it does not do away with the PMTA requirements.

But HEY! I would love to be proven wrong.
.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
My thought on the govt and vaping.
Is that they plan on bottoming it out and then bringing it back up gradually with PMTA approvals.
Too much stuff for them to have control of it right now. And governments are all about control. Get it down to a manageable level.
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
My thought on the govt and vaping.
Is that they plan on bottoming it out and then bringing it back up gradually with PMTA approvals.
Too much stuff for them to have control of it right now. And governments are all about control. Get it down to a manageable level.
Too true, nothing's going to go unregulated. Not in a time when everything is regulated and everyone's accountable. Whether it's radio frequency, rc drones, alcohol, the calorie nazis with food (100cal snack pack shit), demands for calories on fast food, tobacco.. everything is fucking regulated. Vaping didn't really fall into one or another so it just kind of drove in a gray lane with the only actual 'regulation' if any was customer demands. Things like transparency in ingredients, people pushing for diketone free before any gov mandate hit it. And was flourishing pretty well. But this is the day and age where things like dressers or tables without a bunch of wall anchors to protect the tards and fuckwits who insist on using it as a jungle gym can sue places like ikea. They actually have college groups working on innovative design, inventing non tip dressers or chest of drawers to combat what a simple spanking used to accomplish for centuries. Sad.

Being that vaping was largely out of control (or out of the government's control) and no way for them to catch up, using regs and deeming crap pretty much kneecaps the industry. To a point they can shake their little magic etch a sketch and get a do over to recapture it and get a good strangle hold. To think otherwise that with everything under scrutiny and regulation that vaping would just be allowed to skip freely on down the road is just not realistic. I don't have to like it but it doesn't take a genius to figure out this was coming. Not a matter of if, just when. Regardless of who's in office.
 

Jinx'd

Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
the gov wants the tax money. the agency in charge wants the funding.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
well, other than placing a prohibition on the sale of nic base, which I think they eventually will do.....I don't think vaping is disappearing anytime soon...the vaping community has gotten around alot of obstacles together in it's short history.........what is gonna change.... is that vaping is not going to be this orgy of mass consumerisim of cheap ass chinese shit to consume.Will see more people modding there own gear,and a black market of mods....who knows we may see the revitalization of a quality vape gear industry.
 

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
well, other than placing a prohibition on the sale of nic base, which I think they eventually will do.....I don't think vaping is disappearing anytime soon...the vaping community has gotten around alot of obstacles together in it's short history.........what is gonna change.... is that vaping is not going to be this orgy of mass consumerisim of cheap ass chinese shit to consume.Will see more people modding there own gear,and a black market of mods....who knows we may see the revitalization of a quality vape gear industry.

But do you think that Deeming will go through in May? Especially now that this corona thing is hitting everywhere? It seems like the FDA would have better things to do!
 

MyMagicMist

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
All vape products on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 cannot be sold

Don't you mean after that date? Because I mean if your go before that date you're implying Njoy needs to get PMTAs for their products as do a host of others having products on the market before then. And then that implies anything after that date doesn't need them. I'm just clarifying, to avoid my own confusion.
 

MyMagicMist

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Especially now that this corona thing is hitting everywhere? It seems like the FDA would have better things to do!

No hon, that buck will be passed to Department of Agriculture. They will need to ensure food safety as in turning out anything from China. It'll also be shared by DHHR who will need to work hand in glove though Department of Health. For whatever reasoning, I comprehend how bureaucracy functions.

The biggest issue is going to be keeping viable workers to have "in the field" whatever the field happens to be. Yes places will go to being staffed with skeleton crews, all places. You'll see a big push for tele-work, that is working over telecommunications lines. Lots of video conferencing will go on to do work. A lot of email will be happening. People might learn to attach files freely to email instead of paying a provider to do it, or more likely not.

This also gives rise to bring a lot more automation online for working. Saw an article yesterday, a new fast food employee earning $3 an hour, it's a robot. Now figure if all it takes is $3 hourly to make thousands of burgers why would business want to pay $15+ hourly to let (one person making fewer burgers) people do it?

From about 1996 to I think 2016 they researched and did up planning to be ready for a pandemic. That isn't to say "they'll" be ready or even handle it well. It says though they were waiting on such a crisis, being prepared. Yes, Boy Scouts motto is Always Be Prepared. Sure I get that, it is a good idea but it does give me at least cause to wonder, "gee, what did they know beforehand?" Why prepare for something as specific as that? Why not prepare for the magnetic poles shifting. They have shifted too.
 
Last edited:

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
No hon, that buck will passed to Department of Agriculture. They will need to ensure food safety as in turning out anything from China. It'll also be shared by DHHR who will need to work hand in glove though Department of Health. For whatever reasoning, I comprehend how bureaucracy functions.

The biggest issue is going to be keeping viable workers to have "in the field" whatever the field happens to be. Yes places will go to being staffed with skeleton crews, all places. You'll see a big push for tele-work, that is working over telecommunications lines. Lots of video conferencing will go on to do work. A lot of email will be happening. People might learn to attach files freely to email instead of paying a provider to do it, or more likely not.

This also gives rise to bring a lot more automation online for working. Saw an article yesterday, a new fast food employee earning $3 an hour, it's a robot. Now figure if all it takes is $3 hourly to make thousands of burgers why would business want to pay $15+ hourly to let (one person making fewer burgers) people do it?

It’s scary to think that all the goods we’re getting from China will be affected now with corona.
I was looking for an upside to all this virus stuff. Like maybe, leave Vaping alone and figure out how to stop it spreading here. I’ve read about the 1918 flu, and it was really bad. (I avoided saying nothing to sneeze at! ) But really, this could be very very bad. As in Ghostbusters bad, don’t cross the streams, dogs and cats living together kind of bad.
Have you picked up anything astrally? I’m avoiding looking.
 

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
Don't you mean after that date? Because I mean if your go before that date you're implying Njoy needs to get PMTAs for their products as do a host of others having products on the market before then. And then that implies anything after that date doesn't need them. I'm just clarifying, to avoid my own confusion.

But Njoy was bought by BT, I thought. So they’d have plenty of bread for a PMTA.

Not sure how the grandfathering thing works, in actuality. :sigh:
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
But do you think that Deeming will go through in May? Especially now that this corona thing is hitting everywhere? It seems like the FDA would have better things to do!
..............Better things to do.........No, the FDA does not have better things to do....the whole goal of the FDA has nothing to do with better things...they are fucking parasites.
 

MyMagicMist

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
’ve read about the 1918 flu, and it was really bad.

What you may not have read about that is something a bit worse. Bayer had started producing aspirin at that time as well. They gave it out like candy and people used it much like candy as well. There were no instructions, no warnings, nothing. Just "here have some aspirin, it's good for everything that ails you." In part this contributed to the over all deaths with the Spanish Flu. You're correct it was bad. They couldn't distinguish a flu patient from an aspirin overdose.

Have you picked up anything astrally? I’m avoiding looking.

What I see isn't good. I'm kind of looking at it backwards. That saying I'm "hearing" from others that have gone through similar in the past and they're showing me stuff. It's not good. I still have hope though and it helps negate fear. I might also be doing some other poking around but I'm not at liberty, ... So, ultimately how about those Mets? :) ;) It's okay to not look.

But Njoy was bought by BT, I thought. So they’d have plenty of bread for a PMTA.

Huh. Maybe so. Hell I barely keep up if I got mixed, or matched socks. *chuckles* I was just confused though about before or after. It's alright though, confusion is my natural state. :) I never know where I'm going, or when, or why, or how, or what I'm doing. *grins* It all works out though.
 

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
What you may not have read about that is something a bit worse. Bayer had started producing aspirin at that time as well. They gave it out like candy and people used it much like candy as well. There were no instructions, no warnings, nothing. Just "here have some aspirin, it's good for everything that ails you." In part this contributed to the over all deaths with the Spanish Flu. You're correct it was bad. They couldn't distinguish a flu patient from an aspirin overdose.



What I see isn't good. I'm kind of looking at it backwards. That saying I'm "hearing" from others that have gone through similar in the past and they're showing me stuff. It's not good. I still have hope though and it helps negate fear. I might also be doing some other poking around but I'm not at liberty, ... So, ultimately how about those Mets? :) ;) It's okay to not look.



Huh. Maybe so. Hell I barely keep up if I got mixed, or matched socks. *chuckles* I was just confused though about before or after. It's alright though, confusion is my natural state. :) I never know where I'm going, or when, or why, or how, or what I'm doing. *grins* It all works out though.

Crud. I picked some stuff up, and what it was looked dire. So I switched channels and shut it off. :yikes:

Bayer, always the happy helpful company! Like they didn’t do enough harm with mustard gas in the trenches. :growl:
With people getting low and high grade fevers and aches n pains, they would’ve been chomping on aspirin like crazy! Danke, Bayer. Try not to help so much!
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Don't you mean after that date? Because I mean if your go before that date you're implying Njoy needs to get PMTAs for their products as do a host of others having products on the market before then. And then that implies anything after that date doesn't need them. I'm just clarifying, to avoid my own confusion.
Yep bad on my part.
 

eSMOKA

Silver Contributor
Member For 5 Years
One I have chatted with recently claims to have secret information about something that will miraculously save vaping by averting the PMTA process?

Could be that the dude is so scared/in denial that his business is going to go belly that he thinks/says things like that to make himself believe there is a savior that is going to miraculously save vaping (and his business). But in reality there is probably no "secret information" let alone any salvation. But it makes him feel better to say it. Could be, some peeps is like dat.

The only "salvation" I can think of, which I have been wondering about for a while, is with hardware. Sell it as CBD Eliquid mods/tanks/parts. This means you can't be selling nicotine eliquid, though.

I mean, if you have a mod and it as not been "approved" by the FDA as an electronic cigarette mod and is therefore not able to be legally sold as such, well, change the name of it and sell it as something else. We all know a mod isn't tobacco, so does the FDA. Nor is a tank or any accessories and parts. How can the FDA stop that? A mod is just a power source. A tank can be used to vaporize something other than nicotine liquid.

As far as nicotine eliquid though, I don't see any salvation there.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Could be that the dude is so scared/in denial that his business is going to go belly that he thinks/says things like that to make himself believe there is a savior that is going to miraculously save vaping (and his business). But in reality there is probably no "secret information" let alone any salvation. But it makes him feel better to say it. Could be, some peeps is like dat.

I tried to nicely tell him that maybe his boss who had the secret info was just trying to keep his employees from finding other jobs before they wanted them to leave? I have seen this happen many times with mergers, etc in my life.

I dunno if renaming a mod/vape device will work or not.
 

eSMOKA

Silver Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I tried to nicely tell him that maybe his boss who had the secret info was just trying to keep his employees from finding other jobs before they wanted them to leave? I have seen this happen many times with mergers, etc in my life.

Oh, he's an employee. That could very well be the case that his boss is lying to keep his employees from bailing on him.

I dunno if renaming a mod/vape device will work or not.

Me either. I always did wonder why eleaf was called eleaf, though. Sounds more like a dry herb vaporizer brand to me. Maybe they were thinking ahead?
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Me either. I always did wonder why eleaf was called eleaf, though.

I always thought of Electronic tobacco LEAF? I dunno though.
Who knows from Chinese vape outfits who will name an RDA The Wanko :)
 
Last edited:

Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
Could be that the dude is so scared/in denial that his business is going to go belly that he thinks/says things like that to make himself believe there is a savior that is going to miraculously save vaping (and his business). But in reality there is probably no "secret information" let alone any salvation. But it makes him feel better to say it. Could be, some peeps is like dat.

The only "salvation" I can think of, which I have been wondering about for a while, is with hardware. Sell it as CBD Eliquid mods/tanks/parts. This means you can't be selling nicotine eliquid, though.

I mean, if you have a mod and it as not been "approved" by the FDA as an electronic cigarette mod and is therefore not able to be legally sold as such, well, change the name of it and sell it as something else. We all know a mod isn't tobacco, so does the FDA. Nor is a tank or any accessories and parts. How can the FDA stop that? A mod is just a power source. A tank can be used to vaporize something other than nicotine liquid.

As far as nicotine eliquid though, I don't see any salvation there.

I think everyone is waiting for Trump to bail our asses out, now that the HR whatever bill went through. We shall see.
 

eSMOKA

Silver Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I think everyone is waiting for Trump to bail our asses out, now that the HR whatever bill went through. We shall see.

Supposedly HR2339 is going to be vetoed if/when it gets to the executive office, but not only can vetoes be overridden, FDA deeming is still a problem anyway. :(
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Supposedly HR2339 is going to be vetoed if/when it gets to the executive office, but not only can vetoes be overridden, FDA deeming is still a problem anyway. :(
Yep the Deeming regs are still the 900 lb gorilla in the vape shop.
many seem to think that ignoring them will make them go away.

And will Trump really veto it if the republican controlled Senate passes it?
Trump has a long history of posturing and using bluffs.
 

VU Sponsors

Top