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Dangerous Product Alert: DARK COTTON BLACK MAGIC

Whiskey

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That says enough for me, why would I want to inhale THAT???????????????
tmi_80_anim_gif_zpsxh3blbp7.gif

PERPLESSO-2_zpsg7eey6oo.jpg
 

skoony

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This stuff is designed for aquarium water filtration, NOT vaping. I've seen this stuff on the shelf at a tropical fish store in the past. Activated carbon is used routinely to purify the water in fishy tanks either embedded in the filter media like it is with this Black Cotton, or used by itself in a separate canister filtration system.
that stuff is in granular form most times. when embedded in materials it is basically an air filter and is no more hazardous
than any other air filter.
 

AndriaD

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I can't say if it's really dangerous or not, I'm no scientist. But the practical consideration is, how do you know when your wick is gunked, if the wick is already black? My ADV is SUPER gunky, and I know to dry-burn and re-wick when the wick looks dark brown -- after 2-3 days -- but with a black wick, I wouldn't be able to tell. That's plenty right there for me to avoid this stuff like the plague.

Andria
 

5150sick

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that stuff is in granular form most times. when embedded in materials it is basically an air filter and is no more hazardous
than any other air filter.

Who is heating and inhaling a liquid off of air filters?

There are plenty of things that air can pass through safely that can not be heated to 500 degrees and inhaled.
 

5150sick

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Like the original poster said, carbon is dangerous,but Blackmagic made by bamboo charcoal fiber, not carbon.

Bamboo charcoal fiber is very safe and healthy

What causes pneumoconiosis is the carbon, and it has no relation with bamboo charcoal fiber.


Could you please send a link to the science on the heating above 400 degrees and inhalation of bamboo charcoal fiber?

Because if you are just guessing it could maybe sorta work then you are putting peoples lives in your hands.

This information to avoid inhaling this product was taken from a reliable source and it was seen all over facebook, twitter, and even reddit ECR:


https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/4p67i3/so_about_that_black_magic_wick/

So are you planning on censoring the entire Internet of the ONLY information about this stuff or are you planning on trying to censor only this post?


http://www.ecobabysteps.com/2013/06/25/whats-the-deal-with-charcoal-bamboo/

Charcoal bamboo is rayon with added nanoparticles of charcoal

So inhaling heated nanoparticles of charcoal is safe?

From our good friends at the FTC:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/how-avoid-bamboozling-your-customers

If you make, advertise or sell bamboo-based textiles, the Federal Trade Commission, the nation’s consumer protection agency, wants you to know that unless a product is made directly with bamboo fiber — often called “mechanically processed bamboo” — it can’t be called bamboo. Indeed, to advertise or label a product as “bamboo,” you need competent and reliable evidence, such as scientific tests and analyses, to show that it’s made of actual bamboo fiber. Relying on other people’s claims isn’t substantiation. The same standard applies to other claims, like a claim that rayon fibers retain natural antimicrobial properties from the bamboo plant.

If you sell clothing, linens, or other textile products, you’re responsible for making truthful disclosures about the fiber content. If your product isn’t made directly of bamboo fiber — but is a manufactured fiber for which bamboo was the plant source — it should be labeled and advertised using the proper generic name for the fiber, such as rayon, or “rayon made from bamboo.”

Any claims you make about your textile products have to be true and cannot be misleading. As the seller, you must have substantiation for each and every claim — express and implied — that you make.


I also found it very, very odd that you do NOT mention the words "Bamboo", "charcoal", "fiber" or even the word "wick" in your trademarks on the product.
Why is that?
By looking at the trademarks I would have no idea what you were selling.

http://www.trademarkia.com/black-magic-87053926.html
http://www.trademarkia.com/dark-cotton-87041619.html
 
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The Cromwell

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Who is heating and inhaling a liquid off of air filters?

There are plenty of things that air can pass through safely that can not be heated to 500 degrees and inhaled.
I would also think that the vaporization process esp at higher wattages tends to blow stuff out of the wick. It sure does blow out juice.

also one does not stick their lips up to an air filter and inhale.
 

Bobx

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I'm trying to figger out what Hot Pockets have to do with dangerous black cotton.

Andria
Your kidding right?
Did you read my post?
And your right Hot Pockets has nothing to do with dangerous black cotton.
 

AndriaD

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Your kidding right?
Did you read my post?
And your right Hot Pockets has nothing to do with dangerous black cotton.

Yeah I finally figured it out after I read back a little. :D

Andria
 

skoony

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Who is heating and inhaling a liquid off of air filters?

There are plenty of things that air can pass through safely that can not be heated to 500 degrees and inhaled.
If the nano particles of charcoal are embedded into the polymer to make the thread that makes the cotton(rayon product)
explain please the problem. Tell me how your heating your wick to 500 degrees. Your coil might get
to 500 degrees but if anything else is your doing it wrong.
 

outwest

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In order to succeed with a Libel action, the first think you have to do is to prove that the statement you're suing over is false.

Good luck with that.
@Darkcotton agreed that carbon is dangerous, even posting, "What causes pneumoconiosis is the carbon".
According to Google, the darkcotton.com website said, "BLACK MAGIC is developed by dark cotton team from Florida State University, made by black activated carbon." So, where's the libel? By their own admission it has activated carbon in it.
 
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5150sick

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If the nano particles of charcoal are embedded into the polymer to make the thread that makes the cotton(rayon product)
explain please the problem. Tell me how your heating your wick to 500 degrees. Your coil might get
to 500 degrees but if anything else is your doing it wrong.

when using tc my mod throttles back when I'm taking a vape with it set to 500 degrees.

this means the coil is reaching that temp and wants to reach an even higher temp.

most tc mods have settings from 400 to 600 degrees which leads me to believe that vaporization happens between these temps.
 

The Cromwell

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@Darkcotton agreed that carbon is dangerous, even posting, "What causes pneumoconiosis is the carbon".
According to Google, the darkcotton.com website said, "BLACK MAGIC is developed by dark cotton team from Florida State University, made by black activated carbon." So, where's the libel? By their own admission it has activated carbon in it.
Was it actually developed for vaping or is vaping just a misuse of it?
 

5150sick

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5150sick

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  1. Dangerous Product Alert: DARK COTTON BLACK MAGIC

    5150sick, Wednesday at 10:29 PM

    Replies: 68
    Views: 10,915 As of: Saturday June 25th 9:24 PM



    So In THREE DAYS I have notified almost 11,000 (ELEVEN THOUSAND) Vapers of a potentially Dangerous Product containing rayon with added nanoparticles of charcoal.

    I think I am helping the vaping community by putting out this truthful information so vapers are educated about what they are inhaling.

    I can't see how I could possibly be doing anything wrong.

    What do my fearless readers Think???

    I love every one of you for coming here to find all your vaping news & media for over two years now and I really do care what your opinions are on these subjects.

    Thank you for staying with me for so long and I do not plan on going anywhere anytime soon :) - 5150
 

Jim_MDP

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I bet. I'm not seeing the benefit on this product. Is it supposed to be more absorbent?

First guess... it's cooler (looking, that is). :p

If you've got your black on black on black atty on your similar mod for that wicked "murdered out" look... gotta do it up right and black out your wick as well.

Amiright?

:D

Safe or not (probably not)... I'll pass. :rolleyes:
 

skoony

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when using tc my mod throttles back when I'm taking a vape with it set to 500 degrees.

this means the coil is reaching that temp and wants to reach an even higher temp.

most tc mods have settings from 400 to 600 degrees which leads me to believe that vaporization happens between these temps.
So what? It's not the temperature of the coil that counts. Increased heat produces increased vaporization. The temperature of the vapor never
approaches the temperature of the coil. Not by a long shot.The vapor is released into the flow of air and away from the coil at much lower
temperatures indicated by your device. I seriously doubt vapor in a properly wicked and saturated coil gets as hot as 250 degrees F off the
atty. Your vapor doesn't get anywhere near 500 degrees. If it did you wouldn't be talking for all the obvious reasons. The residual water in the mix atomizes the base at slightly below and above boiling.(212 degrees F) This atomizes the mix into a vapor. The main ingredient in PG and VG is water bonded with
propylene oxide in the former and fat in the later.The percentage of non-PG/VG in an unopened bottle is 99.999999% pure water. PG and VG are hygroscopic. This means they both absorb water relative to the humidity in the air. The average yearly humidity in the USA is 30%. At between
60 to 80 degrees F your juice will have between 8.xx and 9.xx% pure water by absorption.(over 8% less than 10%)
 

AndriaD

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So what? It's not the temperature of the coil that counts. Increased heat produces increased vaporization. The temperature of the vapor never
approaches the temperature of the coil. Not by a long shot.The vapor is released into the flow of air and away from the coil at much lower
temperatures indicated by your device. I seriously doubt vapor in a properly wicked and saturated coil gets as hot as 250 degrees F off the
atty. Your vapor doesn't get anywhere near 500 degrees. If it did you wouldn't be talking for all the obvious reasons. The residual water in the mix atomizes the base at slightly below and above boiling.(212 degrees F) This atomizes the mix into a vapor. The main ingredient in PG and VG is water bonded with
propylene oxide in the former and fat in the later.The percentage of non-PG/VG in an unopened bottle is 99.999999% pure water. PG and VG are hygroscopic. This means they both absorb water relative to the humidity in the air. The average yearly humidity in the USA is 30%. At between
60 to 80 degrees F your juice will have between 8.xx and 9.xx% pure water by absorption.(over 8% less than 10%)

Glad you reiterated that both PG and VG are hygroscopic. One constantly hears "VG doesn't dry you out as much," though it actually DOES, but due to its emollient effect, the throat doesn't FEEL as dry. Just because you don't FEEL it, doesn't mean it's not happening -- like sunburn on an overcast day.

And BTW, nice to see ya over here skoony. Get tired of the ECF fascists? ;)

Andria
 

5150sick

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So what? It's not the temperature of the coil that counts. Increased heat produces increased vaporization. The temperature of the vapor never
approaches the temperature of the coil. Not by a long shot.The vapor is released into the flow of air and away from the coil at much lower
temperatures indicated by your device. I seriously doubt vapor in a properly wicked and saturated coil gets as hot as 250 degrees F off the
atty. Your vapor doesn't get anywhere near 500 degrees. If it did you wouldn't be talking for all the obvious reasons. The residual water in the mix atomizes the base at slightly below and above boiling.(212 degrees F) This atomizes the mix into a vapor. The main ingredient in PG and VG is water bonded with
propylene oxide in the former and fat in the later.The percentage of non-PG/VG in an unopened bottle is 99.999999% pure water. PG and VG are hygroscopic. This means they both absorb water relative to the humidity in the air. The average yearly humidity in the USA is 30%. At between
60 to 80 degrees F your juice will have between 8.xx and 9.xx% pure water by absorption.(over 8% less than 10%)

so in your estimation how hot does the layer of activated carbon rayon that is snug against the coils get?
we weren't talking about how hot the juice gets.
for years we have been searching for the cleanest purest cotton to use as wicks but now all of a sudden you think this dirty black shit is the way we should go?
do you have stock in this company or something?
 

5150sick

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One more thing: Ever get a burnt hit?

Me too, they don't happen often but they do happen.

Do you think this black shit is:

A) Safer
B) Equal
C) Worse

In a burnt hit scenario?
 

skoony

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so in your estimation how hot does the layer of activated carbon rayon that is snug against the coils get?
we weren't talking about how hot the juice gets.
for years we have been searching for the cleanest purest cotton to use as wicks but now all of a sudden you think this dirty black shit is the way we should go?
do you have stock in this company or something?
Rayon is used quite often and quite regularly by many people. So is cotton or silicon.
Properly wicked I am not aware of any issues with any of these.
By the way I am not suggesting anyone use it. I am just suggesting before redditing a product
do a little due diligence. Activated charcoal much like asbestos,silicon,titanium dioxide and,
cotton dust are not harmful in and of themselves. It depends on what form they are used in,
if they can get into your lungs and, is there enough to worry about if it does. All of these
things I listed would be harmless but for the fact it's not because you breathe them in,it's
because you can't breathe them out. They get caught in the lung tissue. For this reason
they are known as occupational hazards. Thankfully we are not using asbestos and
there is no way for a vaper to get get enough exposure to the others even over a life
time to be worried about.

I can understand if one chooses not to use a product. That's fine. However if one is
going to call out a product as being dangerous one should know what they are talking
about. What is the product? How is it made? How is it used? Does all the activated
charcoal magically detach itself from the polymer its mixed in and all get deposited
in your lungs?
 

skoony

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One more thing: Ever get a burnt hit?

Me too, they don't happen often but they do happen.

Do you think this black shit is:

A) Safer
B) Equal
C) Worse

In a burnt hit scenario?
If your worried about dry hits you shouldn't be vaping.Sooner or later we all get one.
 

5150sick

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I can understand if one chooses not to use a product. That's fine. However if one is
going to call out a product as being dangerous one should know what they are talking
about. What is the product? How is it made? How is it used? Does all the activated
charcoal magically detach itself from the polymer its mixed in and all get deposited
in your lungs?

Wouldn't it be great if the company that is selling this shit answered these questions?
So far the only thing they have done is put this shit in a box and tell people to use it as a wicking material.
I would imagine that more information is needed.
I asked for more info and they haven't said shit back and this thread has been here for 4 days now.
They know about this thread so I would think that they have no fucking clue what they are selling and they have even less of a clue if it is safe.
 

Zamazam

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Caveat Emptor as always. There would be folks who would ask why gargling with pure chlorine is dangerous, and even defend the practice.

Activated carbon embedded in wicking material has the danger meter pegged at 11.
 

Lost

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This post is a Libel, please delete it immediately or we will take a legal action

It's a libel?

For sake of argument, let's assume for a moment that
1. You aren't a troll and
2. You're actually linked to this company and
3. You actually return to read the rest of this thread.

I might entertain your claim if you
1. Define "libel"
2. Explain how it applies to this case
3. Explain why the common law "fair comment" defense would not apply here and
4. Find a single attorney with membership in the American Bar Association who attaches an indefinite article in front of the word "libel" when making related accusations.

Good luck with that.
 
that stuff [activated carbon] is in granular form most times. when embedded in materials it is basically an air filter and is no more hazardous than any other air filter.
This is a novel application. Arguing that activated carbon is proven useful and safe in other completely different applications, and therefore must also be in this one is a nonargument. It's an inductive inference based on untested premises being stated as a certainty.

Rayon is used quite often and quite regularly by many people. So is cotton or silicon.
Properly wicked I am not aware of any issues with any of these.
By the way I am not suggesting anyone use it. I am just suggesting before redditing a product do a little due diligence.
I get playing devil's advocate, but foisting onus probandi onto the consumer to substantiate Dark Cotton's claim of product safety is going way too far. People here have done their due diligence; they've raised questions and substantiated the reasons for their concerns. If the user "Darkcotton" represents the company, then all we've gotten in response is some ragman roll about university research, bullshit redefinitions of carbon, and legal threats.

The threats made me chuckle a little, so I guess that part was kinda good.

Activated charcoal much like asbestos,silicon,titanium dioxide and, cotton dust are not harmful in and of themselves. It depends on what form they are used in, if they can get into your lungs and, is there enough to worry about if it does.
Yep. Does it? How much is enough to worry about is a value judgement to be made by the consumer and we have no data to judge by.

I can understand if one chooses not to use a product. That's fine. However if one is
going to call out a product as being dangerous one should know what they are talking about. What is the product? How is it made? How is it used? Does all the activated charcoal magically detach itself from the polymer its mixed in and all get deposited in your lungs?
All good questions for Dark Cotton to answer. If we're supposed to do their research for them, then they bloody well need to pay for it.
 
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alright im help all yall out. i know my wicks and my cotton this stuff is called black diamond rayon or black carbonized bamboo rayon its man made. Its rayon that has been carbonized by applying heat to it. its also not safe to vape their isnt a method known to make it vapor- able. trust i had this stuff late 2015 its like dog hair you smell the fiber and you can smell this sort of charcoal odor. It does not absorb its not fire resistance. Who ever was dumb enough to call it black magic was solely wanting to take advantage of ppl who would be dumb enough to buy it cause of its appearance and name.
 

skoony

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One more thing: Ever get a burnt hit?

Me too, they don't happen often but they do happen.

Do you think this black shit is:

A) Safer
B) Equal
C) Worse

In a burnt hit scenario?
Your scenario is faulty.
No one would continue vaping that way. They would fix the problem.
 

skoony

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Wouldn't it be great if the company that is selling this shit answered these questions?
So far the only thing they have done is put this shit in a box and tell people to use it as a wicking material.
I would imagine that more information is needed.
I asked for more info and they haven't said shit back and this thread has been here for 4 days now.
They know about this thread so I would think that they have no fucking clue what they are selling and they have even less of a clue if it is safe.
Wouldn't it be great if we all stop acting like uneducated Luddite hypochondriac's?
I for one do not assume that it would be bad in the first place. I do not believe
vendors are out to kill us.
 

skoony

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This is a novel application. Arguing that activated carbon is proven useful and safe in other completely different applications, and therefore must also be in this one is a nonargument. It's an inductive inference based on untested premises being stated as a certainty.


I get playing devil's advocate, but foisting onus probandi onto the consumer to substantiate Dark Cotton's claim of product safety is going way too far. People here have done their due diligence; they've raised questions and substantiated the reasons for their concerns. If the user "Darkcotton" represents the company, then all we've gotten in response is some ragman roll about university research, bullshit redefinitions of carbon, and legal threats.

The threats made me chuckle a little, so I guess that part was kinda good.

Yep. Does it? How much is enough to worry about is a value judgement to be made by the consumer and we have no data to judge by.

All good questions for Dark Cotton to answer. If we're supposed to do their research for them, then they bloody well need to pay for it.
Your assumption my argument is invalid is a illogical. The very fact that carbon is used safely in filtering
applications supports the notion this product would be a good choice not,an indicator of harm.
One does not state that a form of carbon use completely unrelated to this product also would cause
harm. Asbestos in the lungs can be deadly. Asbestos incorporated into fire retardant materials
is harmless.
 
This post is a Libel, please delete it immediately or we will take a legal action (Staff)

You're a cancer of the industry. The fact that you want to "silence" this thread instead of bringing facts to disprove. You are what is literally killing the industry with your products. Chinese business only care about money, not health. I wish you the worst business ever bc you guys deserve nothing.

i joined this forum just to say this.
 

Condensation

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You're a cancer of the industry. The fact that you want to "silence" this thread instead of bringing facts to disprove. You are what is literally killing the industry with your products. Chinese business only care about money, not health. I wish you the worst business ever bc you guys deserve nothing.

i joined this forum just to say this.
Awesome first post and Welcome to Vaping Underground!
 
bamboo charcoal fiber is rayon
you just counteracted yourself. bamnoo charcoal fiber is a actual BAMBOO PLANT that is exposed to high temperature. What your selling is a sliver rayon its 100% mechanically made and created into the sliver form. Also charcoal is nearly consisting of only carbon. Read up before trying to launch a product to a industry thats barely hanging by a thread.

This is off wiki

"Like with any other charcoal, long exposure to bamboo charcoal dust can cause Black Lung and some types of cancer also known to be related to coal, as shown by the WHO.[citation needed]

The US FTC warns that soft linen products marketed as made from bamboo charcoal is actually rayon and are produced using toxic compounds that release pollutants into the air."

enough said
 

5150sick

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Asbestos incorporated into fire retardant materials
is harmless.

If some asshole was taking asbestos fire retardant cloths and putting them in a plastic tupperware container and calling it "FireWick - The only fire proof wicking material" do you think we should just let them slide unchecked with no proof that it won't kill us?

Just let them sell it?

Since "Darkcotton" has had long enough to post their scientific data that this shit won't kill you I'd be willing to bet there is no data.

There is just some asshole that figured it would work and since vapers are stupid that they would buy it to match their black mod and atty.

You seem the be the only one on here or reddit that thinks this shit is a good idea too and it seems that the only way your mind would be changed is if someone vapes this shit and dies from it.

Since i'm praying there is nobody that stupid and you will never put your money where your mouth is and start vaping it then i'm afraid no matter what you post from this day forward it is not going to be of any use to anyone but yourself.

If you haven't gotten anyone on your side yet then you won't.

Or do you want to buy that shit and start vaping it for a few months to prove it's A+ Gold seal of approval to the vaping community?
 
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5150sick

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Wouldn't it be great if we all stop acting like uneducated Luddite hypochondriac's?
I for one do not assume that it would be bad in the first place. I do not believe
vendors are out to kill us.

Then how come they haven't answered anyones health questions in this thread?

The only thing they said in a whole month was "I sue you" which was an empty threat

I don't believe that this vendor was trying to kill anybody but I do believe they wren't smart enough to think it through fully before deciding to sell it.

I also do not believe that pharmaceutical companies are out to kill anyone either when they flood the market with the newest wonder drug.

But it still happens all the time as you can tell by watching any hour of television and you see the commercial with some ambulance chaser saying "If you or a loved one has gotten ill or died from (Enter half dozen drug names here) then you may be entitled to a cash settlement"

Intent to do harm isn't what this thread is about but you knew that already.

This vendor was planning on selling about 5000 units of this shit and then he/she was going to vanish forever money in hand but we didn't fall for it.
I wonder why their legal team hasn't swooped down and forced this thread closed?
I wonder how come they aren't selling this shit anywhere on the internet since that was obviously their intent from the start?

Because they figured out one of two things or both:
a) No one wants this shit and now they are off to the next new big thing that may or may not kill it's intended user.
b) They did a little research and figured out maybe this shit isn't safe to be taking lung punches off of all day every day so they gave up before starting the process of fucking somebody up and getting sued.

@Darkcotton Can you help us out? Which one is it?
 
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skoony

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If some asshole was taking asbestos fire retardant cloths and putting them in a plastic tupperware container and calling it "FireWick - The only fire proof wicking material" do you think we should just let them slide unchecked with no proof that it won't kill us?

Just let them sell it?

Since "Darkcotton" has had long enough to post their scientific data that this shit won't kill you I'd be willing to bet there is no data.

There is just some asshole that figured it would work and since vapers are stupid that they would buy it to match their black mod and atty.

You seem the be the only one on here or reddit that thinks this shit is a good idea too and it seems that the only way your mind would be changed is if someone vapes this shit and dies from it.

Since i'm praying there is nobody that stupid and you will never put your money where your mouth is and start vaping it then i'm afraid no matter what you post from this day forward it is not going to be of any use to anyone but yourself.

If you haven't gotten anyone on your side yet then you won't.

Or do you want to buy that shit and start vaping it for a few months to prove it's A+ Gold seal of approval to the vaping community?
What makes you think just because someone googles up a medical treatment using micro particles of carbon that are pumped
into the stomach to absorb poisons that will cause lung problems if regurgitated into the lungs that it has anything
what soever to do with the product in question? Micro particles, fibers woven into cotton, 2 different things. Not similar.
Dissimilar applications and form do not equal the same risk profile. We are not talking about coal dust. There is no dust
in the product.
If you really want to help the vaping "community",write your congressman.
Quit trashing products with out proof of harm.
 

skoony

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Then how come they haven't answered anyones health questions in this thread?

The only thing they said in a whole month was "I sue you" which was an empty threat

I don't believe that this vendor was trying to kill anybody but I do believe they wren't smart enough to think it through fully before deciding to sell it.

I also do not believe that pharmaceutical companies are out to kill anyone either when they flood the market with the newest wonder drug.

But it still happens all the time as you can tell by watching any hour of television and you see the commercial with some ambulance chaser saying "If you or a loved one has gotten ill or died from (Enter half dozen drug names here) then you may be entitled to a cash settlement"

Intent to do harm isn't what this thread is about but you knew that already.

This vendor was planning on selling about 5000 units of this shit and then he/she was going to vanish forever money in hand but we didn't fall for it.
I wonder why their legal team hasn't swooped down and forced this thread closed?
I wonder how come they aren't selling this shit anywhere on the internet since that was obviously their intent from the start?

Because they figured out one of two things or both:
a) No one wants this shit and now they are off to the next new big thing that may or may not kill it's intended user.
b) They did a little research and figured out maybe this shit isn't safe to be taking lung punches off of all day every day so they gave up before starting the process of fucking somebody up and getting sued.

@Darkcotton Can you help us out? Which one is it?
When customers start asking sensible questions may be they will answer.
At this point all I am hearing is a bunch of hypochondriatic BS.
The OP's medical condition is caused by a botched medical procedure.
The product is what it is. Use it or do not use it.
The carbon isn't even granulated.
 

5150sick

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What makes you think just because someone googles up a medical treatment using micro particles of carbon that are pumped
into the stomach to absorb poisons that will cause lung problems if regurgitated into the lungs that it has anything
what soever to do with the product in question? Micro particles, fibers woven into cotton, 2 different things. Not similar.
Dissimilar applications and form do not equal the same risk profile. We are not talking about coal dust. There is no dust
in the product.
If you really want to help the vaping "community",write your congressman.
Quit trashing products with out proof of harm.


Or do you want to buy that shit and start vaping it for a few months to prove it's A+ Gold seal of approval to the vaping community?
 

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