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Popcorn lung "popping" up in the Los Angeles area

fq06

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So visiting a friend and his wife yesterday my buddy and I were vaping in the garrage. Wife enters and we are all chatting.
She brings up popcorn lung and asks me if I've heard of it. She said her friend that works at a hospital has seen cases of vapers with it recently and by the way she described it, people were lining up at the door with the condition.
You would think that would be plastered all over the news and anti vaping would be all over it, but I couldn't find anything.

She never did smoke a lot, a few while she is drinking so maybe a pack every couple weeks I would guess.
She was scared straight and is no longer vaping. If she isn't smoking, then that's not a bad thing to completely quit but I would guess smokes found their way back into her life... but I forgot to ask so can't say but that would be a step backwards if that's the case. [Back to smoking or not is irrelevant, but I know the question will be asked so I thought I'd just put that in there to start with.]
My buddy quit vaping for a month but has read up on the subject and went back to vaping.

So anti vaping says ejuice contains the baddies and that it could be harmful. I have seen doctors state that the trace amounts in most ejuice is not enough to cause harm. We know for sure there's less in ejuice than cigarettes.

So what I was looking for but did not find is if there has been 1 single case of popcorn lung from smoking cigarettes. We all know about the popcorn factory workers, there is a recent case at a pet food factory but I would be interested to know if one single person that smokes has come down with the dreaded popcorn lung. I don't think a vaper has but that could be argued that there hasn't been enough time to know if it will be a problem in the long run.
But smoking has been around long enough and from what I can tell has over 100× more diacetyl so if one case could be found, it would be a smoker.

Now, I didn't ask what the position of this person that works at a hospital is, could be the cashier at the cafeteria or their lung specialist. I was not going to argue the point because she had already made up her mind so I just enjoyed my vape and a few IPA's
 
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fq06

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Member For 4 Years
Me too, since about 2007(?) with an Ovale as a dual user till last year. And just about solely custard cream juices, thicker, creamier, more diacetyl, the better:cloud:

I suppose it will be hard to find a smoker that has or had popcorn lung if it hasn't happened.
So if you can't find something that says someone has/had or one showing there have been zero people, it's kind of hard to reference in a discussion.

I mean you could say it's absence is proof in and of itself but then you would have to agree that unicorns also exist.
Or maybe my GoogleFu is not very good and the info I seek is out there.
 
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Jimi D

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Me too, since about 2006 as a dual user till last year. And just about solely custard cream juices, thicker, creamier, more diacetyl, the better:cloud:

I suppose it will be hard to find a smoker that has or had popcorn lung if it hasn't happened.
So if you can't find something that says someone has/had or one showing there have been zero people, it's kind of hard to reference in a discussion.

I mean you could say it's absence is proof in and of itself but then you would have to agree that unicorns also exist.
Or maybe my GoogleFu is not very good and the info I seek is out there.
Yes, it would be very hard to find a smoker that had the disease. Some of the popcorn factory workers were smokers. I don't know if that microwave popcorn huffer guy was a smoker. If we were vaping pure diacetyl. Yeah, we would come down with that shit too. This is why I don't worry about it.
 

Artemis

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If popcorn lung aka Obliterative bronchiolitis was actually occurring we would see the headlines for sure. It would be sensationalized though mainstream media.


P.S. It appears (to me) that the thread title is sort off a alarmist type posting. I could be wrong but I'm just describing how I feel about it.
 

fq06

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Yeah, a teaser title and kind of the alarmist position of her friend in the medical profession.
Oh my god! Vapers are coming in daily with this shit! You must stop vaping!

That was my first thought, to google popcorn lung - county name and nothing.
 

Jimi D

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If popcorn lung aka Obliterative bronchiolitis was actually occurring we would see the headlines for sure. It would be sensationalized though mainstream media.


P.S. It appears (to me) that the thread title is sort off a alarmist type posting. I could be wrong but I'm just describing how I feel about it.
Yeah, OP should work for FOX News Lol
 

fq06

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Well, this could be a good thread for an alarmist or fox news watcher to find in a google sesrch.

I'm sure we have all talked with someone that says you'll get popcorn lung when they see you vaping. This info is out there as a fact and is being spewed by people because a reputable to them source has said it's true.

But I guess I still don't have an answer and maybe an answer doesn't exist. Has there been one case of a vaper or even a smoker with popcorn lung?
 

Artemis

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Yeah, OP should work for FOX News Lol
I know. I had a similar statement directed towards me back in Dec 2015. A fellow nurse seen my vape. She stated her boyfriend "vaped". However, she had a concern about people getting popcorn lung. I asked her did she have any proof or cites related to current research. She said "No". I told her that her information from the local Milwaukee Journal was sensationalized as usual.

On the other hand if someone would say "Hey, I'm allergic and I might be having a asthma attack" I might believe it.
 

fq06

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Haha, probably true, born & raised in LA and no popcorn lung yet.
 

Artemis

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I have this on file. When it first was reported @
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-10-case-popcorn-lung-patient-e-cigarettes.html it stated "popcorn lung". Clicking a link to the actual journal article it does not mention "popcorn lung". See here.
http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/article.aspx?articleID=2457240
If it was truly poop corn lung it cannot be reversed or resolved. More sensationalism via junk medical sites. I do believe the guy did have injury to lungs and after cessation of product/e liquid it resolved like it should.
 

Whiskey

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If popcorn lung aka Obliterative bronchiolitis was actually occurring we would see the headlines for sure. It would be sensationalized though mainstream media.


P.S. It appears (to me) that the thread title is sort off a alarmist type posting. I could be wrong but I'm just describing how I feel about it.
LOL, that one flew right over the noggin' if you know what I mean...LOL
 

fq06

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The search engines will have a field day with the title of this thread :-(

Really? The title is a big issue for you?
If it would make your day better I could censor it and change it to "nothing to look at here". For that matter, you could change it to whatever you want since your a mod.

If a search engine does find the thread and someone does read it, was what has been posted here that's harmful? If there is a case, the truth is the truth.

Did they find proof in this thread that popcorn lung can be caused by vaping? Or did they see that it really has not happened and if a smoker hasn't got it while taking in 110× what a vapor would... probably not going to happen to a vaper.
 

Whiskey

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LOL, was wondering when the drama was gonna show it's face again

mrw-i-see-those-the-government-is-coming-to-get-your-guns-tomorrow-posts-on-facebook--11285_zpspc2zfvnn.gif
 

fq06

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Well, there was a discussion for a minute, one member found something about a smoker... but since he got better and didn't die, it wasn't popcorn lung.

A thread can no longer exist on VU without someone getting butt hurt or insulting someone's political view or city or whatever else they can find to insult.

Do what you will with the thread, change the title or delete it so it can't be found by the search engines. God forbid the uninformed see a differing view from what's on fox news.
 

Freejep

Member For 4 Years
From this side of the pond my "conspiracy theorist mad" brother in law informed me I'd get popcorn lung if I carried on vaping cos it was "proven on the Internet"...I pointed out that the diacetyl involved in the American factory was in powder form(with particles large enough to clog lung function)not vape/fog form...and in any case I don't DIY mix any cream or toffee flavours so he need not worry...he also believes in top secret government chemtrails to brainwash people and the Internet story that Russia Orders Obama: Tell world about Aliens, or we will...
How can you win an argument with a misguided believer...
The simple answer is you can't...so I just shake my head,smile then walk away...
 

Rabbit Slayer

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She said her friend that works at a hospital has seen cases of vapers with it recently and by the way she described it, people were lining up at the door with the condition.

And that is how all the bullshit stories I've ever heard started... "I have a friend that..." or "my boyfriend's roommate's sister's second cousin knows this guy..."
 

fq06

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And that is how all the bullshit stories I've ever heard started... "I have a friend that..." or "my boyfriend's roommate's sister's second cousin knows this guy..."

Same here, 2 out of 2.
But this friend was told by a 1st hand person saying she sees this in the hospital she works at. Not 2nd hand "I saw it on the Internet" like the ones that have warned me of the danger.

Now, I have no doubt that her friend was full of shit or like has been said before that would be plastered all over the Internet by now.

But my curiosity was with all of the irrefutable evidence on the net... has anyone seen one single case from anyone other than a factory worker and I don't think that dead vaper or smoker exists. Guess it's a question without an answer until a vaper or smoker gets popcorn lung (which hopefully never happens).

Or maybe there is a medical database with all known cases of popcorn lung and what they attributed it to but I couldn't find one.
 

georgemeadal

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Started smoking in 1980 (15 years old), 3Three packs a day at age 22. Two packs a day at age 28 and one pack a day at 35. By age 44 I could barely choke down 15 butts a day and my doctor was telling me I had early emphysema.
I have been vaping since 2009.
Dual user (5 or so a day) till 2013 when I found sub-ohm vaping.
Last chest x-ray Feb 2016, showed clear lungs and I have never breathed better in my life than now, at least since age 15

I have this on file. When it first was reported @
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-10-case-popcorn-lung-patient-e-cigarettes.html it stated "popcorn lung". Clicking a link to the actual journal article it does not mention "popcorn lung". See here.
http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/article.aspx?articleID=2457240
If it was truly poop corn lung it cannot be reversed or resolved. More sensationalism via junk medical sites. I do believe the guy did have injury to lungs and after cessation of product/e liquid it resolved like it should.


In that journal article you linked it was stated that the 60 year old man was a cigar smoker. "CASE PRESENTATION: A 60 year old cigar smoking male was admitted with weakness, chills and cough. "

So in summary: smoking = BAD, especially cigars / Vaping = GOOD
 

Artemis

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Started smoking in 1980 (15 years old), 3Three packs a day at age 22. Two packs a day at age 28 and one pack a day at 35. By age 44 I could barely choke down 15 butts a day and my doctor was telling me I had early emphysema.
I have been vaping since 2009.
Dual user (5 or so a day) till 2013 when I found sub-ohm vaping.
Last chest x-ray Feb 2016, showed clear lungs and I have never breathed better in my life than now, at least since age 15




In that journal article you linked it was stated that the 60 year old man was a cigar smoker. "CASE PRESENTATION: A 60 year old cigar smoking male was admitted with weakness, chills and cough. "

So in summary: smoking = BAD, especially cigars / Vaping = GOOD
The first link was his case file and he did admit to vaping strong eliquid. See first link related to 60 year old. However, you are right. The first link tried to scream popcorn lung and it did not exist.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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This is my take on why I don't worry about popcorn lung
Take a cup of Frank's RedHot pour it in a 5 gallon plastic bag and shake it up, open it and take a deep breathe...Mmmm smells yummy.
Now take a cup of finely ground cayenne pepper, pout it into a dry 5 gallon plastic bag, shake it up, open it and take a deep breathe...and spend the next few minutes hating life
 

Zamazam

Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic
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This is my take on why I don't worry about popcorn lung
Take a cup of Frank's RedHot pour it in a 5 gallon plastic bag and shake it up, open it and take a deep breathe...Mmmm smells yummy.
Now take a cup of finely ground cayenne pepper, pout it into a dry 5 gallon plastic bag, shake it up, open it and take a deep breathe...and spend the next few minutes hating life
Or make your own horseradish in the house, in the blender. Open the lid to spoon it into jars and know why the workers who make it in a factory wear gas masks.
 

raymo2u

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Its funny that Ciggs have 10-100 times more Diacetyl in them then eliquid...yet through the last century there isnt one case of a smoker getting popcorn lung from smoking...there arent many cases of popcorn lung and the people that actually had it were breathing in LARGE amounts of Diacetyl for 8+ hours a day straight for atleast a decade+...There are TRACE AMOUNTS in eliquid, similar to normal air quality...
 

outwest

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For 25 years, I was a one and a half to two packs a day smoker. Twice, yes, TWICE, I had spontaneous lung collapse due to the smoking. I also built up so much crud in my lungs that I couldn't bend over (tie shoes, etc) without going into a massive coughing fit. I've been vaping for 7 years now and my lungs are doing tons better -- no more spontaneous lung collapse and no more smoker's cough. I still get short of breath very easily, but that's more related to my heart and circulatory system. And, some vape flavors do make my lungs feel heavy, but that's easily fixed by avoiding those flavors. I ain't scared of no popcorn lung; it's just another way for people to try to demonize vaping. I even had someone try to tell me that I'm putting people at risk of getting popcorn lung from my 2nd hand vape *banging head against wall*
 

fq06

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Member For 4 Years
Its funny that Ciggs have 10-100 times more Diacetyl in them then eliquid...yet through the last century there isnt one case of a smoker getting popcorn lung from smoking...there arent many cases of popcorn lung and the people that actually had it were breathing in LARGE amounts of Diacetyl for 8+ hours a day straight for atleast a decade+...There are TRACE AMOUNTS in eliquid, similar to normal air quality...


And this is what I would like to find, I've heard it... not one case other than factory workers. You've heard it, all of VU has heard it, but I would love to find a national database that has all illnesses counted by the year and totaled up or something like that. See that the one person doesn't exist and be able to show her how full of shit her friend is.

(Not saying to you pics/proof or it didn't happen)
 

raymo2u

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And this is what I would like to find, I've heard it... not one case other than factory workers. You've heard it, all of VU has heard it, but I would love to find a national database that has all illnesses counted by the year and totaled up or something like that. See that the one person doesn't exist and be able to show her how full of shit her friend is.

(Not saying to you pics or it didn't happen)
Ive seen a page that had all the documented popcorn lung cases...I forget where but it was when I was in deep re4searching about diacetyl...

here's something to show anyone that bitches though:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/14/m...750-times-greater-in-tobacco-vs-e-cigarettes/
 

fq06

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Thank you, that was interesting... the Dr. sees up to 750 times more Diacetyl in cigarettes and Critical Reviews in Toxicology doesn't see high enough levels of Diacetyl in cigarettes to cause popcorn lung.

The doctor was addressing the media going off the rails on this and has done his own study but even he didn't directly state that not one smoker or vaper has come down with popcorn lung.
But he said that one person needed a lung replacement and all that have gotten it were factory workers. So I guess that's the same thing but you have to read between the lines to get to it.
 
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Time

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But I guess I still don't have an answer and maybe an answer doesn't exist. Has there been one case of a vaper or even a smoker with popcorn lung?

The answer is no. No smoker has ever gotten popcorn lung from smoking. Not one single case. And, no vaper has gotten it.
 

fq06

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Thanx Time.

That reminds me of this song my wife playes every time I get in her car... my name is no, my number is no...

I haven't been in her car for the past week now lol
 

Synphul

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I know people try to be concerned, educated, cautious or whatever but it does seem to be in vain. Just like people who worry about being absolutely sterile when building coils or wicking. Sure, washing hands is a good idea. However we breathe all kinds of crap, dirt, dust, car exhaust, cleaning chemicals etc. The same martha stewart type to warn about vaping hasn't done diddly squat for research into what their febreeze or glade spray freshener is pumping into the air that makes their home smell so 'lovely'.

I don't think anyone ever said vaping was healthy in terms of it being a vitamin or a vegetable. Vape your juice it'll help you grow or anything. Comparatively I think it's a healthier alternative to many substances. Then again I choose to vape and don't tie others down and force them to do the same if it's not their thing.

Plenty of health nuts out there vigilantly drinking their 'healthy' bottled water leaching lord knows what from the plastic bottle. All in how things are looked at. Even when it comes to the medical field things are constantly changing. Do this it's healthy. No wait don't, that's what we thought 6mo ago, now do this. Oops this is worse, go back to what you were doing.

The way I see it, sure no one wants health complications. We don't want to be plagued by disease or discomfort but in the end life is a losing game. Being born is a death sentence. So you go through life avoiding all the bad things, keeping yourself healthy until something fails. The mind, the heart, the lungs, the liver, the kidneys. None of it is fun I would imagine, six of one half dozen of the other. However the only real fact that goes undisputed is we will ALL die eventually. In the meantime being 'healthy' is just prolonging the inevitable :p
 

nightshard

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People are just panicking over nothing.
Just like when they said vaping causes Emphysema.
Just like when the FDA banned the use Dipyron because it caused bone marrow damage and later figured out it was one case per million.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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People are just panicking over nothing.
Just like when they said vaping causes Emphysema.
Just like when the FDA banned the use Dipyron because it caused bone marrow damage and later figured out it was one case per million.
but that could still affects over 7,000 people
 

nightshard

It's VG/PG not PG/VG
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but that could still affects over 7,000 people
There are much worst drugs that the FDA doesn't ban (wonder why).
00000.1 % of adverse effect from any drug is not something that would cause a ban, that's why it's an example of panicking in advance.
 
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Synphul

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True, just look at all the medications out there meant to improve people's lives. Then comes with various warnings - may cause temporary blindness, headaches, nausea, inability to focus, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts or tendencies, rash, itching or swelling of the feet, muscle spasms, aches and pains, dry mouth, difficulty breathing, explosive diarrhea.. I mean hell even my cigarettes only used to say 'warning, may cause cancer'. Yet those medications 'pass' the 'standards'. So many side effects you forget what you were getting treated for and when you do remember it doesn't seem half as bad as all that.
 

Artemis

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True, just look at all the medications out there meant to improve people's lives. Then comes with various warnings - may cause temporary blindness, headaches, nausea, inability to focus, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts or tendencies, rash, itching or swelling of the feet, muscle spasms, aches and pains, dry mouth, difficulty breathing, explosive diarrhea.. I mean hell even my cigarettes only used to say 'warning, may cause cancer'. Yet those medications 'pass' the 'standards'. So many side effects you forget what you were getting treated for and when you do remember it doesn't seem half as bad as all that.
This is so true! I am taking one med called Immuron (azathioprine) that can cause cancer plus a host of other adverse effects/interactions with other medications. Some medications it is dose related so I'm hoping not to develop cancer. Popcorn lung is far from my concern right now.
 
The fda is a joke,they are bought and paid for. Just look at how many medications are allowed on the market that have side affects as bad or worse than than the conditions they were meant to treat.
Drinking a diet coke is more dangerous than vaping in my opinion, diet sodas contain aspartame, a known carcinogenic. Scientists actually inject aspartame into Lab Rats to intentionally cause brain tumors so that they can study how to treat the tumors. Yet the fda has allowed this into our food supply.
 

Zipslack

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And don't forget how that wonderful blessing, Chantix, can cause LSD-style dreams and suicidal tendencies (not the band). They also, conveniently, don't mention that once the wonder-drug clears your system, it almost feels like you just went cold-turkey. Sure, I have the utmost faith in the FDA and Big Pharma. :huh:
 

BigNasty

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And don't forget how that wonderful blessing, Chantix, can cause LSD-style dreams and suicidal tendencies (not the band). They also, conveniently, don't mention that once the wonder-drug clears your system, it almost feels like you just went cold-turkey. Sure, I have the utmost faith in the FDA and Big Pharma. :huh:
Chantix almost got a buddy of mine shot.
NO ONE should take it. Dude went on a BAD BAD BAD trip.
Slight TBI, ptsd and lack of sleep with 1 beer he forgot about the chantix.
Lead to him facing off with 6 cops.
 

Zipslack

Member For 4 Years
Luckily, I didn't have any of the weird side-effects, but once you are weaned-off the drug, the urges returned full-bore. Technically, Chantix helped me quit smoking and vaping kept me that way.
 

Canadian Vaper

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There has been no reported cases of popcorn lung caused by vaping. I have a feeling her friend is a Anti-Nicotine-Tobacco-Zeolot and is just trying to scare her....
 

HeadInClouds

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Just a note for anyone who might be reading and wants to avoid diacetyl. (If you're happy using flavorings with it, just skip this note.)

Flavorings without diacetyl aren't so hard to find. Many manufacturers claim "diacetyl free" and use other diketones instead. Those substitutes should concern you equally; their chemical structure is similar enough that they'd logically have similar effect on living cells, according to scientists.

To avoid diketones one easy choice is FlavourArt flavorings, which are free of "diacetyl and related diketones". FA is also the only flavoring company to do biological testing of their vaporized flavorings. You can read more about their testing here: http://www.clearstreamonward.com/the-project-clearstream-onward/.
 

wheelie

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The state that is that is trying to protect the carp from bowfisherman and stop the sport. Yes they want to protect the little ones. LOL
 

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