Difficult Vendor?

KDodds · Aug 22, 2016

I just want to throw this out there and get some opinions. My experiences with almost all vendors I've dealt with in the last 4 years have been pretty much stellar. Yeah, FastTech delays with batteries, nothing unexpected, and always supported when there have been problems. The only exception was the very first cig-a-like vendor I dealt with.

I've got four years under my belt and have order from dozens of vendors. Almost every time when buying from a new vendor, I make a small purchase first to test the waters. There were two vendors I dealt with very early on that have left me cautious to this day.

Almost three weeks ago I place an order with a US Vendor for two drip tips. 3 days after I ordered, the package hit the nearest large hub in NJ and departed. It has been sitting in this departure state for over a week and a half now, where the usual time from departure to arrival at my PO is half a day to a day, tops.

I contacted the vendor at the end of last week. I was told that they called the hub but no one answered and to call my local PO. This was Friday after hours by the time they responded, So I called both post offices nearest me today and both told me the same thing, what I already knew, that it left the hub over a week and a half ago.
I contacted the vendor again. This time I was told they initiated a "lost mail tracking request" and that *I* would need to file a lost/stolen mail report with the PO.

We're not talking $20 tips here, we're talking $2.50 each. Whenever I've had problems in the past with little stuff like this, or even a mislabeled 60 or 120ml bottle of juice, the vendor has always apologized for the inconvenience and sent out a replacement. For $5, I'm pretty pissed off. I could understand more if it were a $100 mod or something like that, but $5? Really? You want *me* to handle that "loss"?

So what's your opinion? Am I overreacting? Should I give them a break? This isn't a fly-by-nighter, either, it's a fairly well known shop and etailer out of Hawai'i.

JuicyLucy · Aug 22, 2016

At one time I used to sell a lot of delicate items online and send through the USPO.

While you may feel you shouldn't have to do anything - you paid good money up front for merchandise that in good faith you should have received a long time ago - the PO will not honor a claim made by a seller, it has to be the buyer.

As a seller, once an item has the postage paid and is given to the post office, it is out of the sellers and buyers control. Yes, a good vendor will put in a request to have the item tracked again when it stalls somewhere in the chain.

You, as a buyer, do have a responsibility to also file a lost/stolen mail report. This is legitimately due to the fact that it is you the buyer who is missing the merchandise, not the seller. It is post office policy.

Frankly, I learned to give it a month before considering refunding or resending an item due to the PO occasionally just not delivering on time for whatever reason. It really sucks for the buyer, who is out their money and the merchandise, and for the seller when a customer blames the seller when in fact the seller has done what they were supposed to.

As much as I love vapemail, I find it hard to find fault with a seller that doesn't want to pop another identical item in the mail right away, though it would be nice. However, with PO policies being what they are, you can see how quickly a business could lose their shorts by resending merchandise at the first hint of a delivery problem.

KDodds · Aug 22, 2016

I can certainly understand the vendor's predicament. I know they did nothing wrong in the transfer. And I know that USPS is solely to blame for the delay or complete loss. I can even understand if they had great customer service in the past and it got them burned taking a customer's word for it. But they're not taking my word for it. The package is lost. Might it be found? Sure. So, what, worst case scenario I get two free $2.50 drip tips and the vendor is out, what, a dollar or two? I paid shipping after all, so they really only would lose their cost. $1-2 to offer excellent customer service and potentially keep that customer as a repeat buyer? And their response is pretty much, "sorry, nothing we can do, you're SOL, good luck with USPS". Are they obligated to reimburse me? No, of course not. Will I be buying my next mod, or anything else, from a company that can't invest $1 in excellent service, hell no.

Deucesjack · Aug 22, 2016

I totally agree with the OP. If the product wasn't delivered and they know it wasn't delivered then the vendor should make good on the order. It really doesn't matter if it's a $5 item or a $500 item. They should make it right. I ordered from a vendor here and had a similar problem. Like you it was only a $20 or so order but the rep actually wanted me to pay for the shipping of the replacement even though his tracking showed that it was never delivered. When I objected they offered to split the difference of the shipping with me. This went back and forth for quite a few days until they finally gave in and sent out a new order. When they sent the new order they were like you're probably going to have a double order in a few days if you do get the original just keep it. Well, the original order never came but the replacement did. I probably will not order from them again because of the hassle they made me go thru. It's a shame because I really liked their product but I can't order from a company that gave me such a hard time over such a small order. In fact I tried to give them another chance and I placed a big order. As I was placing the order the rep reached out to me on chat and said they highly recommend I use insurance with this order because they won't be replacing it again. Needless to say I never put the order in. They actually made me feel like I was trying to scam them by ordering again. Too many good companies out there to put up with shit like that.

KDodds · Aug 22, 2016

Yeah there was a juice vendor a while back, pimped a lot on mod envy, and she made really good juice. But. It was hit or miss. Sometimes your order would go out next day, sometimes two weeks, once or twice a month before she even shipped. I'd even gotten orders where the juice was fouled with other flavors, or the flavors wound up with one or more ingredients mixed up in the other. Shame. She made a great coffee, best I've had, better than Baccio. She also did raspberry perfect in her lemonade and custard cake. Shame.

Paratech · Aug 23, 2016

I don't have a monkey in this jungle but I'd like to add;
If the vendor were to do this (replace a lost shipment at their expense) for one customer, they MAY be out $1 or $2.
If the USPS sucked this bad many time on a regular basis, they could be out thousands over time.
It doesn't matter what carrier is used for this scenario.
Think of it over a 10 year period.
If your shipment was lost, how many other small packages do you think may have been lost over the last few years?
For you to be out $5.00 definitely sucks for you because you feel it should fall on the vendor to replace to keep you happy.
( I DO see your point of view but you're not trying to see THIER point of view)
If they were forced to keep 10,000 customers happy over a 10 year period, that adds up to enough loss to put any small business out.
Yes I know that I am stretching this way out of proportion, just trying to get you to look through the entire process.
Granted I did feel more obligated to reply once you said (without naming them) whom this vendor was.
I deal with them regularly and they've always treated me well.
I agree that as a seller, it'd be awesome of their #1 thought was always satisfying the buyer, they also MUST keep an eye on their profit/loss margin.
In no way can I say you are wrong, just that sometimes thinking of the entire circle could be beneficial.
I believe @JuicyLucy was trying to say similar.

KDodds · Aug 23, 2016

Well, I think 1,000 losses/year is probably inflated. Complete loss of package has only happened to me maybe 2 or 3 times over the almost four years I've been purchasing my vape goods online. And the rest of these were batteries from FastTech during that whole crack down period.

On their loss... if $10,000 over a 10 year period would put them out of business, that's basically put them at or under the break even mark for 10 years, which means their business is slowly failing anyway. Of course, if the owner is absorbing that profit to the break even point, that would be all down to poor business practice. Whatever the case may be, we're definitely not talking about make or break figures here.

And even if their lost package figures are, let's say, a super high 1 in 100. Assuming 30% GPM and $100 per package to assume averages. That's $30 per package profit, $3,000 total profit. And that one lost package? $30 loss in unrealized gain, so scratch that. And $70 actual loss. So, instead of $3,000 profit, it's $2,930 profit. Extrapolate out to 1 in a 1,000 being lost, which is probably closer to a reasonable number, and you're talking about $30,000 versus $29,930. Hardly make or break, even with small volume.

So, no matter how I think about it, keeping it non-personal since my loss is exceedingly negligible, their responses really make zero sense from a business perspective. Although, I can certainly see where a business can be cutting it close if this type of client treatment is symptomatic of their other business practices.

I just realized that I've been looking at buying a VT133, and I've been looking at buy it from them. So, now their keeping of the $3 or whatever profit without extending themselves has lost them a $100+ sale. So, see, those ignored customers, they really do equate to FAR bigger losses, unrealized as they may be at the time.

JuicyLucy · Aug 23, 2016

Paratech said:
I don't have a monkey in this jungle but I'd like to add;
If the vendor were to do this (replace a lost shipment at their expense) for one customer, they MAY be out $1 or $2.
If the USPS sucked this bad many time on a regular basis, they could be out thousands over time.
It doesn't matter what carrier is used for this scenario.
Think of it over a 10 year period.
If your shipment was lost, how many other small packages do you think may have been lost over the last few years?
For you to be out $5.00 definitely sucks for you because you feel it should fall on the vendor to replace to keep you happy.
( I DO see your point of view but you're not trying to see THIER point of view)
If they were forced to keep 10,000 customers happy over a 10 year period, that adds up to enough loss to put any small business out.
Yes I know that I am stretching this way out of proportion, just trying to get you to look through the entire process.
Granted I did feel more obligated to reply once you said (without naming them) whom this vendor was.
I deal with them regularly and they've always treated me well.
I agree that as a seller, it'd be awesome of their #1 thought was always satisfying the buyer, they also MUST keep an eye on their profit/loss margin.
In no way can I say you are wrong, just that sometimes thinking of the entire circle could be beneficial.
I believe @JuicyLucy was trying to say similar.

Well said.

The fact is, the buyer does have to do their part in a mail transaction gone bad, no matter how much it isn't the buyers fault.

Yes, I get pissed as hell when there is a problem with something I've bought and have to deal with those lumps at the PO. Or UPS, or FedEx. DHL is the dirtiest word of all in my world.

But intellectually I understand it is part of the bargain.

KDodds said:
Complete loss of package has only happened to me maybe 2 or 3 times over the almost four years I've been purchasing my vape goods online.

I've only had one package (it wasn't vape related) completely, 100% disappear in 19 years of hard core mail order/online buying all the way to Alaska. This includes the fact that I've been ordering direct from China for about five years for an unrelated hobby.

Had TONS missent, mislaid, delivered ridiculously late, empty boxes delivered, you name it.

KDodds · Aug 23, 2016

Intellectually, I understand this as well. However, I'm not looking at it from the perspective of, "oh, this is what I have to do now." I'm looking at it from a business perspective of keeping and gaining customers in a competitive business. If they're not willing to go out of their way for a customer with this, what else do or will they skimp on in terms of service and support?

A more appropriate response, IMO, would have been along the lines of, "let's wait and give it a few weeks and if you still haven't received it, email us back and we'll resend your order". That's the absolute very least I expect in terms of customer service regardless of who's "responsibility" it is. So I need to take an hour off of work or out of my weekend to attempt recoup "my" loss? As far as I'm concerned, if I haven't gotten what I've paid for, that's not my fault, and it's the cost of a vendor's doing business to supply the goods they've promised under the implied contract. This is why credit card companies will virtually always side with the buyer in terms of charging back a vendor for undelivered merchandise.

I checked the order again and I was mistaken on the price, it's actually $14, not $5. But that shouldn't make a bit of difference. I know, for me, that amount of money is not worth standing in line and filling out forms for an hour. That would be a much bigger loss, actually. Besides, I can (and will) say much more by letting them know about the sales they've lost thanks to leaving a customer stranded.

Paratech · Aug 23, 2016

KDodds said:
I'm looking at it from a business perspective of keeping and gaining customers in a competitive business.

Competitive? Where? Did you miss the entire Sigelei catastrophe?
Not only did the mass produce shit products (yes, multiple different variants) but they went after and threatened a vape reviewer (Daniel from djlsb vapes) if he didn't take his vid down. Gratefully he did not remove it.
My point is simply it can't be THAT competitive of a market if a manufacture can not only produce products that do NOT do what they advertise but also go out of their way to threaten someone for pointing it out and it NOT hurt their profit or worth.
BY NO MEANS am I condoning any of this, I am simply saying that because there are so many of us, we can't ALL know of a bad product or vendor so we in turn still purchase form someone that did someone else wrong.

KDodds said:
A more appropriate response, IMO, would have been along the lines of, "let's wait and give it a few weeks and if you still haven't received it, email us back and we'll resend your order".

I DO agree with this. It indeed looks very fair for both parties.
On the down side (for you) odds are if you read the fine print on their site, it probably says that one the shipment leaves their warehouse, it is no longer their problem.
No different than any ELUA that 99% of all people don't even read, we just click accept and keep moving.
We're all bad about things like that.
We know what we want and we want it at any cost.
How many of us knew the negative affects of smoking but we did it anyways? Most.
While I do hate that you had to encounter this loss (doesn't matter how much or little) we've all been there and have to weigh the total cost of battle.
As you said (paraphrasing on my part here) the little bit of $ you are out is not worth the amount of time it'd take to physically resolve this through driving, waiting, paperwork.
If it were $5K, then by all means it is well worth a day or two off work to not only battle this but also go kick someone's ass.
In this particular case of less than $20, a simple complaint and maybe a remark in their reviews is about the most it is worth.
(because I assume your time is just as valuable as the rest of ours and if you're like me, I'm not cheap. haha)

KDodds · Aug 23, 2016

I actually do and did read the T&C's of shipping. And yes, every website, or most anyway, do have the "ain't our problem" clause. However, it is at their discretion to enforce, or not, and most don't. I've had five independent juice vendor replace lost, mislabeled, or mismade products, no questions asked, when there have been issues. And FastTech has replaced or credited every single item that has been lost. I've even had a vendor replace 2 SiDs that were sent in the wrong color, without asking for the return (which I said I would happily do). And yes, I still use all but one of those vendors. That vendor is no longer in business due to many issues.

This wasn't a whim purchase. They had the drip tips I wanted for my eVic AIO. I contemplated the purchase for a week because the vendor was new to me and I contemplated adding in another mod with the order. I'd forgotten which, but it was the VT133. I generally avoid first time large purchases specifically for this reason and I'm glad I keep that my policy, especially now.

And yeah, $14, not even a scratch in what my time's worth, especially precious Saturday, uncompensated, "me" time.

I'll give it a week or two. I'm on staycation next week, so I'll have time to report. Once that's done, I'll send them a polite email letting them know about the business they lost due to their treatment, along with a copy of the receipt for the VT133 from wherever I choose to purchase it. Maybe they'll do right by the next guy or gal.

JuicyLucy · Aug 23, 2016

You can open a claim online anytime online btw

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

KDodds · Aug 23, 2016

JuicyLucy said:
You can open a claim online anytime online btw

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, it keeps telling me I have an account when I know I don't. So I try recovering my password using the username I would have used and it's an invalid username (proving it doesn't exist, mind you). You can't recover your username and it redirects you to set up a new account, and back we are to the beginning. I tried yesterday and today to no avail.

JuicyLucy · Aug 23, 2016

I think we can all agree that USPS BLOWS BIG TIME

KDodds · Aug 23, 2016

It's the one thing that is guaranteed to never, ever start a flame war on a vape board.

Deucesjack · Aug 23, 2016

KDodds said:
It's the one thing that is guaranteed to never, ever start a flame war on a vape board.

Unless you're on a United States Postal board but even a good percentage them know they suck. Lmao.

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hashtagvapemail · Aug 23, 2016

As a vendor on this, we sort of take a two pronged approach. For big packages, we have never had this problem (thankfully, although one of our suppliers did and took it on the chin like a boss for the USPS mistake, naturally we filed a claim for them), but we'd probably have to ask the customer file a cliam if it was a big order.

For smaller stuff, it's a cost/benefit analysis to me. On the one hand you have the cost of whatever you're sending out, which probably isn't too much, and on the other hand you have the chance that someone's being dishonest (if they claim broken, lost of incorrect stuff sent).

In my experience, you really have far, far less of the second than I would have ever expected; most people are actually incredibly honest about this kind of stuff, and when they're not, it's pretty easy to spot.

Most people that are dishonest will try it over and over, and you don't want them as customers anyway. Everyone else is worth far more satisfied than the cost of product and shipping that you're out the once in a blue moon that this happens.

We also have pretty strong quality controls on outbound shipping and spend a lot on packaging to ensure it's protected in shipment, so we don't have a lot of problems like this. (sorry the pic's so big, we can't adjust the size down in this forum's software, but this is a sample of our standard shipping packaging)

Our next step (hopefully we'll be implementing in the next few months) will include an inline check prior to going out of what's inside the actual shipping box before it leaves (this is after existing packaging checks), so incorrect orders can only come about a few ways, or possibly slip through without getting caught (because somebody didn't check the screen when the system flagged it) rarely, and we will know about all of those before they arrive, so we can have corrections en route and the customer notified before they even get the original package. It's some next level technical stuff (which I love, I'm an IT guy by training) but will result in a really tight outbound quality control setup once we get it implemented.

KDodds · Aug 24, 2016

We're already doing this for some of our clients. As long as there's a UPC, we can actually prevent them from closing the cartons. Not physically, but they can't print carton or address labels if the contents are wrong. EDI 856/ASN chargebacks plummet since it's virtually impossible to make a mistake. Well, at least for incorrect merch, you can still get label chargebacks, late shipments, or if you just forward whatever China packed in a box you never opened because you took them at their word.

hashtagvapemail · Aug 24, 2016

KDodds said:
We're already doing this for some of our clients. As long as there's a UPC, we can actually prevent them from closing the cartons. Not physically, but they can't print carton or address labels if the contents are wrong. EDI 856/ASN chargebacks plummet since it's virtually impossible to make a mistake. Well, at least for incorrect merch, you can still get label chargebacks, late shipments, or if you just forward whatever China packed in a box you never opened because you took them at their word.

That's awesome, we haven't even thought of tying the check to our shipping label print, but that's a good idea. I'll have to noodle that one and think about what that would mean for our current process....

:cheers:

KDodds · Aug 24, 2016

We don't do USPS or Pitney Bowes interfaces because mostly we're dealing with larger shipments to major big box stores, but the principle is the same. You push your data out from your ERP to the shipper. You just prevent the ERP from making the push until it's been verified correct through a bar code scanner of the contents. Both FedEx and UPS are usually pretty good about facilitating the interface. I don't know about USPS or Pitney Bowes.

pulsevape · Aug 24, 2016

KDodds said:
Yeah there was a juice vendor a while back, pimped a lot on mod envy, and she made really good juice. But. It was hit or miss. Sometimes your order would go out next day, sometimes two weeks, once or twice a month before she even shipped. I'd even gotten orders where the juice was fouled with other flavors, or the flavors wound up with one or more ingredients mixed up in the other. Shame. She made a great coffee, best I've had, better than Baccio. She also did raspberry perfect in her lemonade and custard cake. Shame.

fucking hate that when juice vendors pull that shit.

freemind · Aug 24, 2016

To be honest, I side with @KDodds . I know and see the other side, but how do you think this pans out for a vendor? How many future sales, and potential customers do/will you lose over 14 bucks?

Truth be told, the vendor has 5 bucks wrapped up in the order. So they would have 10 bucks in the order sending it again, still making money in the end.

Me? I'd do a chargeback and tell the vendor to eat a bag of dicks. If they want to play the petty game, I can too.

I'm sick and tired of vendors making customer service a unicorn. Damnit, it's my money. I work hard for it. I'm not going to let some asshole take my money. You as the vendor CHOSE the shipping options, your employees, and everything about the "sale" of the items you are selling. In the LEAST, I should be assured I am getting what I am paying for.

KDodds · Aug 24, 2016

Yeah, I'm not that strenuous? in my frustrations over this. And I can certainly see the flip side of the vendor also working hard for their money. But the fact of the matter is I've now purchased two new mods since I should have received these drip tips and those were two sales they were thus guaranteed to lose, with more to unrealized sales losses to come.

Yeah, I know, I'm one guy, right? But if they do this to me, they'll do it to someone else, and that kind of thing adds up until you, as the vendor, start wondering where all of your customers went. Maybe they have enough flow and better service at their B&Ms and online sales are just icing. I hope, for their sakes, that this is the case.

KDodds · Aug 26, 2016

Wow. Just wow. Really?

Okay, so, apparently this vendor reads this forum or was alerted by someone who read this post.

How do I know, you ask?

They've blocked my email. I have all correspondence saved and can honestly say that I have not contacted them, in any way, since posting this thread after I was basically told that I was on my own. Yet, my email is blocked. So, vendor, since you're likely eyeing this thread in case I mention you, here ya go, the body of the email I tried to send to you today:

Greetings,

I just wanted to update that my time is worth way more than $14/hour. So, taking off from work to make it to the post office is not going to happen until I can get there next week, taking time out of the one week vacation I take per year in order to report a $14 dollar loss. As I hope you can see, that’s a fairly ridiculous thing to expect a customer to do, even when it isn’t your fault that the package was lost.

In four years of vaping, whenever I have had problems with shipments, every last vendor I have dealt with has taken it upon themselves to make it right. And you know what? I still buy from all of them but one, a juice vendor who went out of business. I also place small orders, such as drip tips, first, when I am using a vendor for the first time, just in case, as a test order.

In the week since I have contacted you due to the package being lost for a week and a half (two and a half), I’ve basically been told, “dude, you’re SOL on our end, call your PO”. In my opinion, regardless of fault, that is not acceptable customer service.

To have done as any other vendor would have done and sent out a new order as soon as I emailed would have cost you virtually nothing. You might have taken a few dollars loss, no more, in the interest of unrealized gains from a satisfied first time customer who becomes a repeat customer. Which, I can assure you, I would have become.

But, thanks to the service you have (not) offered to me, you have not received my order for an HCigar VT133, or Efusion Duo Abalone, both of which I had planned on purchasing from you. Instead, in that time, I purchased all of my needs and wants elsewhere well in excess of your unrealized sales loss for the mods I would have purchased from you, including two new mods, 18650 and 26650 batteries, tanks and coils, and about 500ml of juice.

I hope that, despite your disclaimers, you take this email to heart and reexamine how you treat your customers. No, I was not treated poorly, but I wasn’t treated well either. In fact, I have been left hanging in the wind for what? Ten dollars profit? I sincerely hope that that ten dollars really wasn’t worth it for you either.

Good luck

inspects · Aug 26, 2016

KDodds said:
I actually do and did read the T&C's of shipping. And yes, every website, or most anyway, do have the "ain't our problem" clause. However, it is at their discretion to enforce, or not, and most don't. I've had five independent juice vendor replace lost, mislabeled, or mismade products, no questions asked, when there have been issues. And FastTech has replaced or credited every single item that has been lost. I've even had a vendor replace 2 SiDs that were sent in the wrong color, without asking for the return (which I said I would happily do). And yes, I still use all but one of those vendors. That vendor is no longer in business due to many issues.

This wasn't a whim purchase. They had the drip tips I wanted for my eVic AIO. I contemplated the purchase for a week because the vendor was new to me and I contemplated adding in another mod with the order. I'd forgotten which, but it was the VT133. I generally avoid first time large purchases specifically for this reason and I'm glad I keep that my policy, especially now.

And yeah, $14, not even a scratch in what my time's worth, especially precious Saturday, uncompensated, "me" time.

I'll give it a week or two. I'm on staycation next week, so I'll have time to report. Once that's done, I'll send them a polite email letting them know about the business they lost due to their treatment, along with a copy of the receipt for the VT133 from wherever I choose to purchase it. Maybe they'll do right by the next guy or gal.

This is the reason some folks are more successful than others....GOOD customer service. If a vendor cannot perform they are doomed to fail, and should.

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

This just screams of arrogance on the part of the vendor. I know who you are talking about, as to the vendor.

I have ordered from them in the past, luckily with no problems. I will never order from them in the future. As a matter of fact, when they send out another one of their half assed sale e-mails, I am going to unsubscribe and tell them why I want nothing more to do with them.

For a vendor to treat a paying customer the way they have you, it says a lot about them. They are the kind of people, we all try to avoid.

Deucesjack · Aug 26, 2016

How about naming this vendor so the rest of us don't get blind sided.

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Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

Hundreds of packages always came to my door. I had a lost shipment on one. It was blue foam for 10 lousy bucks. Did I go crying to mama? Post my agony? Nope. Just wasn't worth the time. Vendors don't have the time for petty shit along with drama. :crazy:

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Deucesjack said:
How about naming this vendor so the rest of us don't get blind sided.

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Pretty sure he was talking about Eciggity.

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
Hundreds of packages always came to my door. I had a lost shipment on one. It was blue foam for 10 lousy bucks. Did I go crying to mama? Post my agony? Nope. Just wasn't worth the time. Vendors don't have the time for petty shit along with drama.

Cool. Send me ten bucks and I'll promise to send you something for it. Of coarse, it will never come, but we know you'd be ok with that.

Would you like my paypal address?

If you don't have time for "petty shit and drama", better just get a job then. It's part of owing a business, like it or not. There is no business that doesn't have to deal with it.

This is why so many businesses fail. Too many people are too damn dumb to "get" how to be successful.

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
Cool. Send me ten bucks and I'll promise to send you something for it. Of coarse, it will never come, but we know you'd be ok with that.

Would you like my paypal address?

If you don't have time for "petty shit and drama", better just get a job then. It's part of owing a business, like it or not. There is no business that doesn't have to deal with it.

This is why so many businesses fail. Too many people are too damn dumb to "get" how to be successful.

Deucesjack · Aug 26, 2016

Funny how people are always generous with other peoples money. Lmfao.

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Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

Deucesjack said:
Funny how people are always generous with other peoples money. Lmfao.

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Nah.. I just don't make money my life

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:

See? I knew that ten dollars is more important than you tried saying.

There ARE appropriate times to fire a customer. Hell, I've done it. Just did it again today. But I do not go out of my way to act like a jack ass about it, like this vendor has.

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
See? I knew that ten dollars is more important than you tried saying.

There ARE appropriate times to fire a customer. Hell, I've done it. Just did it again today. But I do not go out of my way to act like a jack ass about it, like this vendor has.

There's always 2 sides of the story man.

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
Nah.. I just don't make money my life

I don't make it mine either. But I do know how business works.

You know how many people a happy client, tells others about you?
Know how many people an unhappy ex-customer, tells about you?

I do.....

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
There's always 2 sides of the story man.

True. But only one side is telling the truth too.

Actions sometimes speak louder than words. What do Eciggity's actions say to you?

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
I don't make it mine either. But I do know how business works.

You know how many people a happy client, tells others about you?
Know how many people an unhappy ex-customer, tells about you?

I do.....

Yes, I'm well aware. Especially in today's world of the internet.

Deucesjack · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
Nah.. I just don't make money my life

Ok send Fremind his $10.

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Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
True. But only one side is telling the truth too.

Actions sometimes speak louder than words. What do Eciggity's actions say to you?

We don't even know it's Eciggity. It could be Volcano as well. I never assume.

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

Deucesjack said:
Ok send Fremind his $10.

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What's he selling ?

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
What's he selling ?

Hopes and dreams.

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
Hopes and dreams.

I have all that I need, but thanks for the offer

Deucesjack · Aug 26, 2016

Jimi D said:
What's he selling ?

What do yo care? Money's not important to you. Wait, you mean you just don't want to send money and get nothing in return? Why not? You actually want something for your $10? Sounds a little whiny to me. I just don't have time for this. Lmfao.

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Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

Deucesjack said:
What do yo care? Money's not important to you. Wait, you mean you just don't want to send money and get nothing in return? Why not? You actually want something for your $10? Sounds a little whiny to me. I just don't have time for this. Lmfao.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

Have a good day bro :blowkiss:

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

Deucesjack said:
What do yo care? Money's not important to you. Wait, you mean you just don't want to send money and get nothing in return? Why not? You actually want something for your $10? Sounds a little whiny to me. I just don't have time for this. Lmfao.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

Lol.

We both know the net is a great place to paint yourself in a way that is fake of who you really are. Lots of people say/advise things on the net, that they don't do themselves.

It is funny as fuck though, when you call someone out on their crap, and they fold like a cheap suit.

I guess embarrassment and disgrace are not part of their "internet character".

mgmrick · Aug 26, 2016

So what has vendor done wrong? Nothing almost every vendor out there is a going to treat a ten dollars order this way. I guess you want them to zero out their 2 dollar profit on your 1st order...and then next week when usps hands you your package? ..what's your shipping number

freemind · Aug 26, 2016

mgmrick said:
So what has vendor done wrong? Nothing almost every vendor out there is a going to treat a ten dollars order this way. I guess you want them to zero out their 2 dollar profit on your 1st order...and then next week when usps hands you your package? ..what's your shipping number

And I'm sure you believe juice vendors only make a buck on a bottle too. Lol.

Vendors get their stock cheaper than we get it directly from China.

You want my paypal address too? You sound another guy talking with a paper asshole.

mgmrick · Aug 26, 2016

Your beef is with usps...give it a rest

Jimi D · Aug 26, 2016

freemind said:
Lol.

We both know the net is a great place to paint yourself in a way that is fake of who you really are. Lots of people say/advise things on the net, that they don't do themselves.

It is funny as fuck though, when you call someone out on their crap, and they fold like a cheap suit.

I guess embarrassment and disgrace are not part of their "internet character".

There he goes assuming again. Ever read the 4 Agreements ? It may help you bro.

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