The power of Ohms

Vape7od · Oct 29, 2016

I like to think im an intermediate vaper. But in my quest for knowledge of all things vaping i have missed a peice of info that i have been pondering lately. So here goes....
If i am using a lower resistance build lets say something like a .2 is that goin to give me longer battery life then a higher resistance build? The reason i ask because is because lately i have noticed that the lower builds are using less volts at the same wattage as a higher build? So it seems that lower resistance equals better battery life but i have no actual science.. Tganks folks..

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SirRichardRear · Oct 29, 2016

Vape7od said:
I like to think im an intermediate vaper. But in my quest for knowledge of all things vaping i have missed a peice of info that i have been pondering lately. So here goes....
If i am using a lower resistance build lets say something like a .2 is that goin to give me longer battery life then a higher resistance build? The reason i ask because is because lately i have noticed that the lower builds are using less volts at the same wattage as a higher build? So it seems that lower resistance equals better battery life but i have no actual science.. Tganks folks..

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Lower resistance is worse battery lode because it needs more watts and in turn more amps to power. A higher resistance build like 1 ohm could be used at 15 watts while a .2 likely needs at least 60-70 watts

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IMFire3605 · Nov 1, 2016

Vape7od said:
I like to think im an intermediate vaper. But in my quest for knowledge of all things vaping i have missed a peice of info that i have been pondering lately. So here goes....
If i am using a lower resistance build lets say something like a .2 is that goin to give me longer battery life then a higher resistance build? The reason i ask because is because lately i have noticed that the lower builds are using less volts at the same wattage as a higher build? So it seems that lower resistance equals better battery life but i have no actual science.. Tganks folks..

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Batteries run time is based on "Milli-ampere Hours", so it is the amps that determine drain, example a Samsung 25R, 20amp continuous discharge, "2500mah", 3.7v median voltage, at 1 amp (1000 milliamps) load should run approximately 2.5hours continuously. Higher amps you pull, lower the run time, lower build = higher amps, so 10 amps (10,000 milliamps) load, continuous use would be 1/4 an hour or so. HTH explain it, lower the build = lower the run time, higher the build = longer the run time.

Neunerball · Nov 1, 2016

Vape7od said:
I like to think im an intermediate vaper. But in my quest for knowledge of all things vaping i have missed a peice of info that i have been pondering lately. So here goes....
If i am using a lower resistance build lets say something like a .2 is that goin to give me longer battery life then a higher resistance build? The reason i ask because is because lately i have noticed that the lower builds are using less volts at the same wattage as a higher build? So it seems that lower resistance equals better battery life but i have no actual science.. Tganks folks..

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Besides what has been mentioned already, play with different values here http://www.steam-engine.org/batt.asp, and see for yourself.

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

This is why I always recommend low power and high resistance, for best possible battery life. I vape at 10w or less, current coil 2.13Ω, and get 2+ days from an LG HE2, and close to 2 days from a 25R.

Andria

Brad Mitchell · Nov 1, 2016

Though some have said that higher hohm and longer draws are worse than lower ohm shorter draws. Not sure if this equates to now a days since more RDAs and RTAs have better airflow.

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

Brad Mitchell said:
Though some have said that higher hohm and longer draws are worse than lower ohm shorter draws. Not sure if this equates to now a days since more RDAs and RTAs have better airflow.

The only thing you need to know is that less resistance requires higher amps, and that is what drains the battery. More resistance requires less amperage. All else is irrelevant, though the power level is also somewhat of a factor, obviously.

Andria

HondaDavidson · Nov 1, 2016

In theory 1 ohm at 50 watts will consume the battery at about the same rate as a .1ohm coil at same wattage............ BUT, in reality the BIGGER coil will use the most battery. Due to the extra time and power spent heating the coil to temp. Build the coils to the same mass they will be equal battery wise, if wattage is also equal.

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

HondaDavidson said:
In theory 1 ohm at 50 watts will consume the battery at about the same rate as a .1ohm coil at same wattage............ BUT, in reality the BIGGER coil will use the most battery. Due to the extra time and power spent heating the coil to temp. Build the coils to the same mass they will be equal battery wise, if wattage is also equal.

That's true, but I figured it was more detail than he really needed, considering he was worried about crap like the length of the draw and airflow.

Either might play some role, but are really kinda irrelevant to the basic fact that less resistance requires higher amperage.

Andria

HondaDavidson · Nov 1, 2016

AndriaD said:
That's true, but I figured it was more detail than he really needed, considering he was worried about crap like the length of the draw and airflow. Either might play some role, but are really kinda irrelevant to the basic fact that less resistance requires higher amperage.

Andria

Length of draw will affect battery life also. Airflow might in a TC device, but not a regular regulated or unregulated device.

Yes with a mech or unregulated device lower ohms will draw more amps than a high ohm coil will, it will also produce more watts..... using the battery faster.

Confusion comes when you add a regulated mod to the conversation.. In this case its coil mass and wattage that determine battery life, mostly.. as at a given wattage the battery will see the same amp draw regardless the ohm. At 50watts both the 1ohm and 0.1ohm coil will draw about 12amps at the battery. Even though the atomizer is being powered at 7amps and 22 amps respectively.

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

HondaDavidson said:
Length of draw will affect battery life also. Airflow might in a TC device, but not a regular regulated or unregulated device.

Yes with a mech or unregulated device lower ohms will draw more amps than a high ohm coil will, it will also produce more watts..... using the battery faster.

Confusion comes when you add a regulated mod to the conversation.. In this case its coil mass and wattage that determine battery life, mostly.. as at a given wattage the battery will see the same amp draw regardless the ohm. At 50watts both the 1ohm and 0.1ohm coil will draw about 12amps at the battery. Even though the atomizer is being powered at 7amps and 22 amps respectively.

Hmm... so my own 2+ days battery life has more to do with the 10w or less, than the 2 ohm coil?

Andria

HondaDavidson · Nov 1, 2016

AndriaD said:
Hmm... so my own 2+ days battery life has more to do with the 10w or less, than the 2 ohm coil?

Andria

That's pretty much been my experience....... Although the tiny wire you will be using is also playing a part.... Low mass and fast ramp time helps.

On my Mechanical cReo I vape with a 1 ohm coil call it 15watts (actual 17-11 watts) on my Pico mod I vape at the same 15 watts but using a .3 to .5ohm coils .... The mech gets about 1-4 hours better battery life than the regulated mod. I get from 20-22 hours per batt on the cReo with a 1 ohm coil. With the Pico I get 18-20 hours at 15 watts. FWIW, if I run the Creo atty on the Pico at 15 watts I still get less battery life with the reg mod. Also the ohm drop looks more pronounced than it really is. It's mostly due to switching wire from kanthal and nichrome with the mech, to SS with the Pico.

With a Mech or unregulated mod coil OHMs are determining factor in most areas of performance.... With a regulated mod just about all the ohm determines is the required battery and how many volts the mod will supply.

Brad Mitchell · Nov 1, 2016

Well if you have more air flow on a hot coil then it will cool it down faster causing you to take a longer draw something that we didn't really have 3 years ago. So that being said a hotter coil meant shorter draw which meant less battery usage wish means more battery life. I'm just stating the theory back then.

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

HondaDavidson said:
That's pretty much been my experience....... Although the tiny wire you will be using is also playing a part.... Low mass and fast ramp time helps.

On my Mechanical cReo I vape with a 1 ohm coil call it 15watts (actual 17-11 watts) on my Pico mod I vape at the same 15 watts but using a .3 to .5ohm coils .... The mech gets about 1-4 hours better battery life than the regulated mod. I get from 20-22 hours per batt on the cReo with a 1 ohm coil. With the Pico I get 18-20 hours at 15 watts. FWIW, if I run the Creo atty on the Pico at 15 watts I still get less battery life with the reg mod. Also the ohm drop looks more pronounced than it really is. It's mostly due to switching wire from kanthal and nichrome with the mech, to SS with the Pico.

With a Mech or unregulated mod coil OHMs are determining factor in most areas of performance.... With a regulated mod just about all the ohm determines is the required battery and how many volts the mod will supply.

That's cool. And yes, I had to experiment a bit as we all do, to find the right size wire/# wraps to suit my own preference -- 29ga kanthal, 9 wraps around 3/32, has been my standard for nearly a year; the thing is, before I used the 9 wraps to arrive at 2 ohms or slightly higher, I was using 7 wraps, to get about 1.7-ish ohms, at the same wattage levels, approx. 9.5 to 10 watts -- and I really do get slightly better battery life with 2+ ohms than I did at 1.7 ohms, even though with 2 more wraps, the mass is slightly greater -- not significantly enough to affect the ramp-up time though, which is still nearly immediate -- that;s the reason I've never been happy with 28ga, just too slow, and 30ga, too flimsy, coils don't last as long. 9 wraps 29ga at 9.5-10 watts is a great MTL vape, with my excellent Achilles RDA (very tight draw). Definitely not a cloud-chasing atty, it produces vapor that's little more than a heavy mist that dissipates very rapidly, but that atty provides outstanding flavor and TH with very little power, thx to that tight draw.

Andria

Vape7od · Nov 1, 2016

IMFire3605 said:
Batteries run time is based on "Milli-ampere Hours", so it is the amps that determine drain, example a Samsung 25R, 20amp continuous discharge, "2500mah", 3.7v median voltage, at 1 amp (1000 milliamps) load should run approximately 2.5hours continuously. Higher amps you pull, lower the run time, lower build = higher amps, so 10 amps (10,000 milliamps) load, continuous use would be 1/4 an hour or so. HTH explain it, lower the build = lower the run time, higher the build = longer the run time.

Alotta ppl said alot but the thing that stuck out most was you saying that "the amps determine the drain" and the science youve laid out makes the most sense to me.. Because i may have a .6 build at 40 watts and its pullin 5.2amps (just an example not exact) but if i run a .15 build at 70 watts its only pullin 3.8 amps.. So in that case the lower build would be gettin longer battery life.. And that has been my experience which is why your science helped me get a betfer grasp..thanks

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SirRichardRear · Nov 1, 2016

IMFire3605 said:
Batteries run time is based on "Milli-ampere Hours", so it is the amps that determine drain, example a Samsung 25R, 20amp continuous discharge, "2500mah", 3.7v median voltage, at 1 amp (1000 milliamps) load should run approximately 2.5hours continuously. Higher amps you pull, lower the run time, lower build = higher amps, so 10 amps (10,000 milliamps) load, continuous use would be 1/4 an hour or so. HTH explain it, lower the build = lower the run time, higher the build = longer the run time.

i'm pretty sure the correct accurate measure of how long a battery will last is in KW/H because that takes voltage into consideration.
for example
in a parallel set up the batteries would be 3.7volts (nominal voltage) and 3000mah each so 3.7 * 6000 = 22,200/ 1000 = 22.2Kw/H
In a series set up the batteries would be 3.7V each (nominal voltage) so 7.4v and 3000mah so 7.4 * 3000 = 22,200/1000 = 22.2Kw/H
in other words either way you have the same capacity with 2 batteries

AndriaD · Nov 1, 2016

Vape7od said:
Alotta ppl said alot but the thing that stuck out most was you saying that "the amps determine the drain" and the science youve laid out makes the most sense to me.. Because i may have a .6 build at 40 watts and its pullin 5.2amps (just an example not exact) but if i run a .15 build at 70 watts its only pullin 3.8 amps.. So in that case the lower build would be gettin longer battery life.. And that has been my experience which is why your science helped me get a betfer grasp..thanks

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Not sure where you're getting those figures, but they're wrong. .6 ohms running at 40 watts needs 8.16 amps. .15 ohms at 70 watts is 21.6 amps.

http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.asp

Andria

HondaDavidson · Nov 1, 2016

More mass more capacity for heat. Smaller coil can and often has a hotter heat flux than a big coil. Yet because there is more metal in the big coil it doesn't have to be as hot generate the heat needed for vaporization.

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HondaDavidson · Nov 4, 2016

Vape7od said:
Alotta ppl said alot but the thing that stuck out most was you saying that "the amps determine the drain" and the science youve laid out makes the most sense to me.. Because i may have a .6 build at 40 watts and its pullin 5.2amps (just an example not exact) but if i run a .15 build at 70 watts its only pullin 3.8 amps.. So in that case the lower build would be gettin longer battery life.. And that has been my experience which is why your science helped me get a betfer grasp..thanks

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Are you confusing amps with volts? Your numbers are closer to the volts needed than the amps being drawn . Andria amp numbers are correct.

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nightshard · Nov 4, 2016

SirRichardRear said:
i'm pretty sure the correct accurate measure of how long a battery will last is in KW/H because that takes voltage into consideration.
for example
in a parallel set up the batteries would be 3.7volts (nominal voltage) and 3000mah each so 3.7 * 6000 = 22,200/ 1000 = 22.2Kw/H
In a series set up the batteries would be 3.7V each (nominal voltage) so 7.4v and 3000mah so 7.4 * 3000 = 22,200/1000 = 22.2Kw/H
in other words either way you have the same capacity with 2 batteries

That's why 2 batteries in parallel and in series in an unregulated mod will drain at roughly the same time (running at the same wattage).

2 batteries in parallel have double the capacity then 2 batteries in series.

At the same wattage batteries in parallel will run at half the voltage so will run at double the amperage, so the drain would be doubled compared to series.

Still, two 3000mAh in any configuration will run longer then two 2000mAh because they have higher capacity (as long as you run them within their CDR)

robot zombie · Nov 4, 2016

With regulated power, it all comes down to watts. The voltage on the screen is what the device puts out, not what the batteries give the device to work with. In a regulated device, the batteries always put out their "natural" voltage. Your mod is probably running two or three in series. The device may show an output of say, 3v, but from the batteries it's still getting an input voltage of 8 for two batteries or 12 for three. This is a constant, regardless of what's happening on the coil end.

What does change is the current. At a given voltage (the one your batteries put out,) a given current is required to produce a given wattage. Regulated mods first generate the wattage you set and then play around with voltage/current to power the coil as per ohms law. Voltage and current can be exchanged as needed. A lower resistance coil requires less voltage and more current to hit the same wattage, but whether it's high ohm or low ohm, the mod pulls on the batteries the same. It still has to work with what the batteries can provide independent of the coil to get the power. The equation for calculating current drain on a regulated device is A=W/V. No ohms law, here. So if you want to fire ANY coil at 100w on two fresh batteries in series, you're always looking at 100w / 8v = 12.5A.

Theoretically, a low resistance coil can be made to have better battery life. For instance, a low ohm 28g coil will be very small and won't require a lot of wattage. On the flipside, a .3 dual 24g is fairly sizable and can easily demand 100w. The latter isn't going to have very good battery life compared to the former.

The most intuitive way I can think to explain it is to think of things not in terms of volts and ohms, but instead think of it in terms of mass and wattage. The higher the mass of the coil, the more wattage it requires, and the more current the mod will need from the batteries. Size and resistance are not mutually exclusive, at all.

kim leith · Nov 4, 2016

AndriaD said:
Not sure where you're getting those figures, but they're wrong. .6 ohms running at 40 watts needs 8.16 amps. .15 ohms at 70 watts is 21.6 amps.

http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.asp

Andria

Does anyone have a phone app suggestion for converting and coil build specs?

kim leith · Nov 4, 2016

robot zombie said:
With regulated power, it all comes down to watts. The voltage on the screen is what the device puts out, not what the batteries give the device to work with. In a regulated device, the batteries always put out their "natural" voltage. Your mod is probably running two or three in series. The device may show an output of say, 3v, but from the batteries it's still getting an input voltage of 8 for two batteries or 12 for three. This is a constant, regardless of what's happening on the coil end.

What does change is the current. At a given voltage (the one your batteries put out,) a given current is required to produce a given wattage. Regulated mods first generate the wattage you set and then play around with voltage/current to power the coil as per ohms law. Voltage and current can be exchanged as needed. A lower resistance coil requires less voltage and more current to hit the same wattage, but whether it's high ohm or low ohm, the mod pulls on the batteries the same. It still has to work with what the batteries can provide independent of the coil to get the power. The equation for calculating current drain on a regulated device is A=W/V. No ohms law, here. So if you want to fire ANY coil at 100w on two fresh batteries in series, you're always looking at 100w / 8v = 12.5A.

Theoretically, a low resistance coil can be made to have better battery life. For instance, a low ohm 28g coil will be very small and won't require a lot of wattage. On the flipside, a .3 dual 24g is fairly sizable and can easily demand 100w. The latter isn't going to have very good battery life compared to the former.

The most intuitive way I can think to explain it is to think of things not in terms of volts and ohms, but instead think of it in terms of mass and wattage. The higher the mass of the coil, the more wattage it requires, and the more current the mod will need from the batteries. Size and resistance are not mutually exclusive, at all.

Once again the "Zombie" makes it clear for me. You da man!
Getting my conversion skills honed building for my new series box.

SirRichardRear · Nov 4, 2016

kim leith said:
Does anyone have a phone app suggestion for converting and coil build specs?

vape tool or vaper's toolbox are android apps to assist in builds

robot zombie · Nov 4, 2016

kim leith said:
Once again the "Zombie" makes it clear for me. You da man!
Getting my conversion skills honed building for my new series box.

You know it, man! But your series box is different. I'm talking fully regulated rules up above - as in, boxes with chips in them. Yours has adjustable voltage but it still goes by mech rules. If you set it to 6v, then you can pretend that's what your batteries are kicking out. There's no conversion happening like there would be with the more sophisticated mods out there. It's a different creature. Standard ohms law still applies. Power is still locked to resistance with a potentiometer box, though the size-power analogy is still relevant.

Also, don't think I forgot about you! I will get back to you when I have time to sit down and work some things out. I've just been spending a lot of time out in the world lately. I've got a lot of people to catch up with on here ATM lol. I'm home for 4 hours today... ...for the first time in 3 days and I'm about to leave again until tomorrow afternoon.

AndriaD · Nov 4, 2016

kim leith said:
Does anyone have a phone app suggestion for converting and coil build specs?

steam-engine.org works very well in chrome on a mobile. It's the only one I would trust.

Androa

kim leith · Nov 4, 2016

robot zombie said:
You know it, man! But your series box is different. I'm talking fully regulated rules up above - as in, boxes with chips in them. Yours has adjustable voltage but it still goes by mech rules. If you set it to 6v, then you can pretend that's what your batteries are kicking out. There's no conversion happening like there would be with the more sophisticated mods out there. It's a different creature. Standard ohms law still applies. Power is still locked to resistance with a potentiometer box, though the size-power analogy is still relevant.

Also, don't think I forgot about you! I will get back to you when I have time to sit down and work some things out. I've just been spending a lot of time out in the world lately. I've got a lot of people to catch up with on here ATM lol. I'm home for 4 hours today... ...for the first time in 3 days and I'm about to leave again until tomorrow afternoon.

No worries. Putting together some higher ohm builds but nothing near a full ohm yet.
Been running out of space on the rda's I own, so went single and vertical coils.
Playing with wicking methods on a vertical single coil set up. Nice vape so far.
Got nervous running at the low ohm limit (0.3) for series with dual coils. So went for higher builds and I ran out of room on the deck and jammed the wick up against the cap wall.
0.58 single, 0.40 dual and a 0.34 @ 60% are the three I'm using now.

The power of Ohms

Vape7od

SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube

IMFire3605

Neunerball

AndriaD

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Brad Mitchell

AndriaD

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HondaDavidson

AndriaD

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HondaDavidson

AndriaD

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HondaDavidson

Brad Mitchell

AndriaD

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Vape7od

SirRichardRear

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AndriaD

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HondaDavidson

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nightshard

It's VG/PG not PG/VG

robot zombie

kim leith

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SirRichardRear

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robot zombie

AndriaD

Yes, I DO wear a mask! I'm vaccinated, too!

kim leith

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