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Cop drew his gun on me

MKPM

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There are more law abiding citizens then there are criminals. You want to talk trauma, Ill tell you stories that will make you sick to your stomach, things that I have lived through, thanks to guns.....You are judging people, and that is reserved for your god, is it not?
Law abiding gun owners have REGISTERED firearms. I'm fairly certain that crims do not. That said, how many crims with guns can not possibly be known, therefore that is a non-statistic


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Time

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Those that truly know us, know that feel we are everything BUT high and mighty. We are actually quite self-deprecating. I am not anti-gun. But as long as people own handguns and advertise the fact, motivated crims will get them. Most guns used in crimes were stolen from the same people that proclaim their right to possess one themselves. Again, this echoes the fact that whilst Americans have rights, many fail to equate rights with responsibilities in regards to justice. I have found that most gun bunnies have never had the trauma of taking a life....and I truly hope they never will.


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But none of that makes me lesser. I am not lesser than the innocent victim that was killed by or will be killed by a gun. I retrain the right to posses and use a gun to protect myself. I am not lesser.

And I'm a combat veteran is that helps answer your last sentence. I retain the right to defend myself as an individual as the country retains the right to defend itself as a Nation. I am not lesser.
 

MKPM

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I must assert that I am NOT anti-gun, nor did I, nor will I ever state or imply that any human being is greater or lesser than another. That is against my Franciscan principles


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Time

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Law abiding gun owners have REGISTERED firearms. I'm fairly certain that crims do not. That said, how many crims with guns can not possibly be known, therefore that is a non-statistic


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Law abiding gun owners also have unregistered firearms.
 

MKPM

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How? It's perfectly legal to own an unregistered firearm.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a law abiding citizen of the US, and legally owned an unregistered hunting rifle. He allegedly assassinated the President. Police were able to link that rifle to him based on a sales receipt. This proves that whilst unregistered, even primitive forensics were able to link an unregistered weapon to a criminal. My point here is that in some circumstances you simply just don't know who is who, or what is their intent. The serial killer was always looked fondly upon by their neighbors.


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MKPM

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I guess that in the spirit of the OP, the proliferation of Handguns regardless of intent or legal possession, gas created a justly paranoid society. Most people do not have the ability to JUST KNOW who is who, and what their intent. Lee's wife certainly had no idea.


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Time

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That's true. But it kinda makes the point moot doesn't it? Whether the gun is registered or not does not change the intent of the owner.
 

MKPM

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That's true. But it kinda makes the point moot doesn't it? Whether the gun is registered or not does not change the intent of the owner.
This brings me back to my assertion that rights are dangerous unless tempered by responsibilities


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MKPM

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Here is a thought. Why does the military use camouflage? So the enemy can not find the guns! Lesson learned that can be applied to civilian life. I can not take your guns if I cannae find them.


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Time

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I guess that in the spirit of the OP, the proliferation of Handguns regardless of intent or legal possession, gas created a justly paranoid society. Most people do not have the ability to JUST KNOW who is who, and what their intent. Lee's wife certainly had no idea.


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I don't see it as justly paranoid. Those that choose to go unarmed have chosen to be paranoid. There are bad people in the world. The assumption that a person may have a gun must mean he has ill intent is unjustified. People that choose to go armed don't see others that may be armed as automatically having ill intent. They are not paranoid.
 

MKPM

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i do not have to register my guns in this state. I can buy them from private owners with no paperwork. The law protects that right for me.
And I fully believe that you are a responsible owner and safeguard your weapons. Again folks. I am not anti-gun, nor am I an advocate of removing citizens rights regarding firearms. Just attempting to establish context from the perspective of the person who notified the police and the police reaction in the OP


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Cloudy Peak Vapes

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i do not have to register my guns in this state. I can buy them from private owners with no paperwork. The law protects that right for me.
No matter what side of the debate you're on, I don't have any way to comprehend why this is a positive thing. This fact shows that a criminal can buy a gun in a private sale, without any way of knowing. At the least, background checks need to be mandatory wether purchased at a store, gun show, or private party. Just my opinion. Still won't eliminate guns getting in the hands of the wrong people, but it certainly would help.
 

MKPM

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I don't see it as justly paranoid. Those that choose to go unarmed have chosen to be paranoid. There are bad people in the world. The assumption that a person may have a gun must mean he has ill intent is unjustified. People that choose to go armed don't see others that may be armed as automatically having ill intent. They are not paranoid.
That is true in many cases I'm sure. I choose to go unarmed, and am the opposite of paranoid. I engage people in dangerous places and situations as part of ministry, with absolutely no fear


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nightshard

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I don't see it as justly paranoid. Those that choose to go unarmed have chosen to be paranoid. There are bad people in the world. The assumption that a person may have a gun must mean he has ill intent is unjustified. People that choose to go armed don't see others that may be armed as automatically having ill intent. They are not paranoid.

That's interesting because i think the opposite is true.
The few that have guns here are paranoid: what if someone steal my gun or try to grab it? What if my kid found it and decided it's a good idea to play with it? What if i shoot someone by mistake?
I walk the streets without the fear of being attacked and even if i did i would find a less lethal way to defend myself.
 

MKPM

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That's interesting because i think the opposite is true.
The few that have guns here are paranoid: what if someone steal my gun or try to grab it? What if my kid found it and decided it's a good idea to play with it? What if i shoot someone by mistake?
I walk the streets without the fear of being attacked and even if i did i would find a less lethal way to defend myself.
Superb!


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Time

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This brings me back to my assertion that rights are dangerous unless tempered by responsibilities


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That's true. Rights are always dangerous. Morality can't be legislated. You of all people know that. All we can do in the end is punish/discourage the harming of others. We can't punish those that have yet to commit a dangerous act.
 

Time

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That's interesting because i think the opposite is true.
The few that have guns here are paranoid: what if someone steal my gun or try to grab it? What if my kid found it and decided it's a good idea to play with it? What if i shoot someone by mistake?
I walk the streets without the fear of being attacked and even if i did i would find a less lethal way to defend myself.

That's a fear you are projecting on to gun owners, it's not a fear most gun owners have.

I understand you may have that fear, it does not equate to me having it. ;)
 

nightshard

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That's a fear you are projecting on to gun owners, it's not a fear most gun owners have.

I understand you may have that fear, it does not equate to me having it. ;)

If none of the things iv'e wrote even crossed your mind then there is something wrong with you.

And btw i was in the army and carried an assault rifle for years so my fear is not from handling a gun, but the things i wrote would worry me if i were a civilian carrying a hand gun.
 
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Tripster

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i do not have to register my guns in this state. I can buy them from private owners with no paperwork. The law protects that right for me.

This is the only way I purchase firearms...
 
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Time

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If none of the things iv'e wrote even crossed your mind then there is something wrong with you.

And btw i was in the army and carried an assault rifle for years so my fear is not from handling a gun, but the things i wrote do worry me as a civilian carrying a hand gun.

I don't spend my days worrying that my children would fall in a filled bathtub and drown, that I will run over someone in my truck, that someone will grab my pain meds and force me to OD on them. No, there is nothing wrong with me. Your insinuation is that gun owners are under some sort of stress outside of everyday life concerns. That simply is not true.

You seem to be way more concerned that a person may have a firearm than I am of having a firearm accident or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 

MKPM

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In my faith...a person with a gun has no power over life and death..they are merely a tool. With that in mind, I have no fear for my life. This is not to say I intentionally put myself in harms way....but Psalm 23 pretty much is my insurance policy. But enough of that lol
 

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I like that this has stayed mostly civil and calm. I can always talk this stuff as long as nobody argues like mad. And know, though I haven't been accused of it, I don't look down at people who own guns. I might not be able to understand or share your opinions, but I think no lesser or differently of you.
 

Tripster

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In the State of Minnesota, you have to go through 2 Background checks...First for the permit from the Sheriff and Second for the sale at a FFA Dealer. Criminals will never be stopped nor will they follow Laws, Statues, and Ordinances. Disarming LAAC's will only give criminals more opportunities to commit more methodical and systematical crimes whilst knowing LAAC's/LADAC's are being disarmed. Background checks is simply another way to infringe on our rights period. LAAC/LADAC Firearm Operators (not to be confused with Reckless Firearm Operators) will not risk their rights and constitution period. Our Government, Law Enforcement, and Military CAN NOT AND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PROTECT US 24/7 365, it is up to OURSELVES to protect ourselves, loved ones, and friends in an instant when, where, why, and how it happens...seconds is all it takes for criminals to commit their crimes against us while it can take upwards of 2-5+ minutes for LEO's to arrive and or find our/your location. In the State of Minnesota, they don't have the Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground Law in which gets deadly/dangerous for the fact that if a criminal was to storm your Castle...by law YOU MUST RETREAT TO SAFETY and if you put up a fight even if it's obvious Self-Defense and you severely injure and or kill the criminal/s, you can be arrested and charged for a crime as well.

If you carry a Firearm, Knife, and or Less-Than Non Lethal Defensive Tool and you use it, instantly call 911 and inform them what has transpired otherwise the criminal can/has called 911 as well and in turn gets you arrested/charged for said crime.

Responsibility, knowledge, Understanding, Common Sense, and the like...

I am a victim of multiple home invasions, and other crimes against myself, I am a LADAC and I will not continue being a victim while I wait for Peace Officers to arrive.

Criminals are destroying our rights while others blame and compare LAAC's/LADAC's to criminals.

Done...no further comments!
 
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Time

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I like that this has stayed mostly civil and calm. I can always talk this stuff as long as nobody argues like mad. And know, though I haven't been accused of it, I don't look down at people who own guns. I might not be able to understand or share your opinions, but I think no lesser or differently of you.

Same here.
 

Tripster

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FWIW...


All that Security/LEO's/Government Agent's and this still happens...
 

VapedCrusader

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FWIW...


All that Security/LEO's/Government Agent's and this still happens...

.. correction: All that CANADIAN Security/LEO's/Government Agent's - doesn't surprise me that this happened (sorry.. I had to) ;)
 
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WiSilverVape

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call me ridiculous, but i think a society where everyone wears a firearm is ridiculous. we have lost our civility, if in fact we ever had any. we will never agree on this issue, so badmouth me all you want. you cannot back up your "self-defense" statistics, they don't exist because supposedly they "aren't reported". there are, however, statistics to back up the fact that guns are used to kill thousands of innocent people, many of them women and children. i am out of this convo now, because gun people have blinders on when it comes to their love of guns.

I like ya Kelli, but you can ban legal guns all day...the people doing the bad stuff USUALLY got them illegally. Unless you can take all weapons and destroy them, then all your doing is making the good people weaker.
 

kelli

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I like ya Kelli, but you can ban legal guns all day...the people doing the bad stuff USUALLY got them illegally. Unless you can take all weapons and destroy them, then all your doing is making the good people weaker.

whatever....i never said anything about banning guns anyhoo. but i am no longer participating in this discussion. so buh bye.
 

serenity219

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I am not opposed to guns at all. My father was a hunter. I grew up around guns. I do live in a country with gun control and don't quite get the whole argument against gun control but that is my cultural background. I do recognize that gun violence happens and can happen anywhere regardless of whether controls are in place. I think that lesson was brought home to every Canadian today given what happened in Ottawa.
 

Warhawk-AVG

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i'm in no mood to argue with your gun loving attitudes. but just let me say that someone held a gun to my head and made me suck his dick. so forgive me if i don't embrace your love of the phallic gun. peace out.

Sorry you were victimized by a psychopath with a gun...

The gun was just a tool used to force you to do something against your will...

I truly am sorry that someone hurt you like that...

And you have every right to fear guns especially with such a traumatic experience perpetrated against you...just please don't give the power to others to take MY rights away...

This is a hot subject and I will just agree to disagree with you my lady (and don't let others ruffle your feathers, you are too nice a person to let them get under your skin)
 

Warhawk-AVG

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Those that truly know us, know that feel we are everything BUT high and mighty. We are actually quite self-deprecating. I am not anti-gun. But as long as people own handguns and advertise the fact, motivated crims will get them. Most guns used in crimes were stolen from the same people that proclaim their right to possess one themselves. Again, this echoes the fact that whilst Americans have rights, many fail to equate rights with responsibilities in regards to justice. I have found that most gun bunnies have never had the trauma of taking a life....and I truly hope they never will.


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I do to, never ever ever ever ever want to have to use it for violence (I prefer shooting holes in paper and seeing how many bullets I can put thru a single fuzzy hole at whatever distance)...but I definitely want a violence extinguisher in my possession if I need to quell violence against me or a loved one if needed.

violence is violence...an inanimate object is the "tool" used by a tool to force someone else to do what they want
 

kelli

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unnamed.jpg
 

SMOKIE

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I was sitting on a bench waiting for the train when a transit cop d draws His gun a and tells me to put my hand up.... Turns out someone called saying I had a gun in my hoodie! My big dripper top was hanging out my hoodie pocket guess it looks like a gun muzzle. I'm so possess shaken and more piased . cant I do something against the police department????
Nope they had reasonable suspicion unless you were arrested or strip searched.
 

Warhawk-AVG

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  • You have the right to remain silent when questioned.
  • Anything you say or do may be used against you in a court of law. (Modern readings have can and will in place of may)
  • You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.
  • If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish.
  • If you decide to answer any questions now, without an attorney present, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney.
  • Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?
Notice it doesn't say used FOR you in a court of law

Shoosh and demand a lawyer...that's the jist of it

More or less say "I am willing to assist in any way I can, but I want my lawyer present before I answer any questions" then shut up...

I even believe that now if you do start answering then clam up afterwards they can claim you waived your rights...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/06/supr-j04.html

That's a cute graphic kelli...Google monkeys killing in the wild (be warned it's NOT a pretty sight)...they don't have guns and do ALOT of violence and killing

Luckily that little monkey in the pink dress had a gun...and DIDN'T get victimized ;)
 
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Tripster

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Notice it doesn't say used FOR you in a court of law

Shoosh and demand a lawyer...that's the jist of it

More or less say "I am willing to assist in any way I can, but I want my lawyer present before I answer any questions" then shut up...

I even believe that now if you do start answering then clam up afterwards they can claim you waived your rights...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/06/supr-j04.html

It's rather easy to just your mouth completely till you get time to speak with your attorney and only speak to your attorney...if in jail, only make a single call for an attorney and never to family and or friends period. Also, that video is a lot more informative than I will be.
 

Rock Hunter

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It's rather easy to just your mouth completely till you get time to speak with your attorney and only speak to your attorney...if in jail, only make a single call for an attorney and never to family and or friends period. Also, that video is a lot more informative than I will be.
I am the police...seriously, I am.
27+ years. Worked Violent Fugitive Apprehension & Gang Unit for years.
( these are really not nice people at all...)
The thing you need to remember is this;
I only read your Miranda rights to you when I'm going to ask you specifics about the crime in which I ( we ) think you have done, that's what is required by law.
Anything you say..anything, I'm going to write down in my report before or after I read those right to you. From the moment I first have contact with you.
My advice is do not say anything. Nothing except what your name & date of birth is. Nothing..nada.


Now, you can all hate me.
 

Cloudy Peak Vapes

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@Rock Hunter , sound advice on keeping quiet, talking only causes problems in most situations.

I didn't watch the video yet, but I gather it's about self incrimination, and knowing your rights. I find it so sad that we aren't taught our basic rights in school. I see shows like cops where people just let their cars get searched, and there's no probable cause. I'm fortunate to have lawyers in my family, and I was educated on my rights by them.

Generally, if they're asking for permission to search, they don't have probable cause, even if they say they smell something. They will go at it without asking if they can, usually. In a past life, so to speak, I've been asked to have my car searched on two occasions that would have been very bad for me. I asked what the probable cause was, and said I refuse in a polite manner, and it pissed them off, but my car wasn't searched either time. When they really tried to convince me to let them, I simply informed them that I know my rights, I have attorneys in my family, and they can speak to them, or get a warrant.
 

BigNasty

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I am the police...seriously, I am.
27+ years. Worked Violent Fugitive Apprehension & Gang Unit for years.
( these are really not nice people at all...)
The thing you need to remember is this;
I only read your Miranda rights to you when I'm going to ask you specifics about the crime in which I ( we ) think you have done, that's what is required by law.
Anything you say..anything, I'm going to write down in my report before or after I read those right to you. From the moment I first have contact with you.
My advice is do not say anything. Nothing except what your name & date of birth is. Nothing..nada.


Now, you can all hate me.
Nope you are on the front lines of dealing with the sub human filth intent on destroying civil society.
No hatred here.

What is the old saying... criminals never talk themselves out of trouble but they sure as hell talk themselves into long prison terms.
 

Midniteoyl

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Unless they harassed or ruffed you up I don't think there is much you can do. They had probable cause to search you with someone reporting a firearm. You can never be sure these days.
Just walking up and pulling his weapon is not cool.. and a complaint can be filed.. Whether anything else will happen is another thing.

I would at least call the Media and report it.
 

Midniteoyl

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In other countries cops don't shoot as many people as in usa, that's because in other counties people don't carry guns so the cops are less stressed.
You mean Europe. China, and maybe India, right? 'Cause the rest of the world all carry AK's ;)
 

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