tobacco extraction

bulbophyllum · Mar 15, 2017

Hey,

I enjoy vaping e juice made from tobacco. I was thinking about experimenting with making my own by the cold maceration process (soaking tobacco in pg for a month or 2 and straining out the particles.)

I'm a former cigarette smoker and never liked cigars. But, would I be crazy to use some nice cigars to try out my first extract? The extract should taste like cigar tobacco not cigar smoke . Cigars are an easy to buy source of high quality tobacco. Am I totally barking up the wrong tree here? Do cigar tobacco extracts taste like smoking a cigar?

gary

RMarcusY · Mar 15, 2017

be careful, you will need to test the extract to see how many mg/ml the nicotine level is. It's safer and cheaper to buy nicotine and flavor.

skeene · Mar 15, 2017

I tried before without much success, ECF has quite a bit of info about it as I remember

bulbophyllum · Mar 15, 2017

RMarcusY said:
be careful, you will need to test the extract to see how many mg/ml the nicotine level is. It's safer and cheaper to buy nicotine and flavor.

From what I have read only a minuscule amount of nicotine from the tobacco is actually dissolved into the pg during this cold maceration process. Like to the point that it is not even taken into account when mixing the extract into finished e liquid.

bulbophyllum · Mar 15, 2017

skeene said:
I tried before without much success, ECF has quite a bit of info about it as I remember

Thank you. I will check them out.

gary

skeene · Mar 15, 2017

I hope you're using rebuildable rta/rda's, Those extracts gunk up coils quickly

bulbophyllum · Mar 15, 2017

I have been vaping only tobacco extracted e juice for 6 months (when I quit smoking). I buy from Naturally extracted tobacco llc. At first I would go through a coil in a few days. Either they stepped up their refinement process or I learned to keep my tank really full at all times. But, these days I can vape at 30 watts for a month on the same coil.

gary

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

RMarcusY said:
be careful, you will need to test the extract to see how many mg/ml the nicotine level is. It's safer and cheaper to buy nicotine and flavor.

the amount of nicotine extracted by cold or even heat assisted maceration is so tiny as to not be an issue.

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

bulbophyllum said:
I have been vaping only tobacco extracted e juice for 6 months (when I quit smoking). I buy from Naturally extracted tobacco llc. At first I would go through a coil in a few days. Either they stepped up their refinement process or I learned to keep my tank really full at all times. But, these days I can vape at 30 watts for a month on the same coil.

gary

Clay Packard over at Natural Extracted Tobacco makes some of the very best NET juices around flavor wise..Blacknote is a company who have a reputation for subtle flavor but whose juice gunks coils less...
To answer your question..Yes your cold maceration of a cigar of a shreded cigar will taste like the cigar, not the smoke,,it will taste incredible you're on the right track..if you can muster the patience I'd recommend a long 4-8 week cold maceration in PG,rather than a heat assissted maceration it will gunk your coils less and I'd recommend you get your hands on some lab filters. 5 and 2 microns....and a buchner funnel

RonJS · Mar 16, 2017

bulbophyllum said:
I was thinking about experimenting with making my own by the cold maceration process (soaking tobacco in pg for a month or 2 and straining out the particles.)

I've done that. Many times.

If you use cigars that have never seen a match, that's what your extract and resulting vape will taste like. It won't be like smoking a lit cigar.

I've also done that with just fresh mint & PG. The resulting vape does not taste like smoking some mint.

Ron
---
" It's clean, real clean. Like my conscience."-Travis Bickle

VinceV1 · Mar 16, 2017

pulsevape said:
the amount of nicotine extracted by cold or even heat assisted maceration is so tiny as to not be an issue.

I read somewhere, it was around 0mg-2mg. Please share your results.

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

VinceV1 said:
I read somewhere, it was around 0mg-2mg. Please share your results.

way less than 2mg..less than 1 mg

RonJS · Mar 16, 2017

pulsevape said:
way less than 2mg..less than 1 mg

Yup

I'm thinking around .01 mg (or less)

Soaking tobacco in PG is not going to extract much nic. According to that organic chemist Kurt "at that other place", to extract nic....

" It is a standard amine alkaloid extraction/acid-base flip method, but of course hidden in those several words is a lot of specialized glassware, solvents, acids, bases, and instruments to measure purity."

Ron
---
" Well, you can't sit on a couch twenty hours a day and not learn something."- Peggy Bundy

skeene · Mar 16, 2017

has anyone tried using whole leaf cigarette tobacco? I was thinking of ordering a pound before but I never had much success with cigars, extract was always weak . i gave up on the process

happy valley · Mar 16, 2017

DIY NETs and hybrids are just about all I vape. Time, aging, treatment, method, tobacco variety, there are any number of variables in play. After trying many methods I've settled on PGA (Everclear) extraction for the cleanest liquid. Filtering plays an important role of course, I do final, one micron, freeze filtering.

As well, I'm finding how aggressive the extraction process is can lead to subtle or not so subtle changes in flavor. I think when I began I wondered if I could get enough strength from the tobacco. Now, seeing just how robust I can make an extract, and with many vials at various stages of process and age, my goal is to see how I can influence for nuance and smoothness, replicating what I enjoyed about the original tobacco.

Always happy to discuss NETs further if so inclined ;-)

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

happy valley said:
DIY NETs and hybrids is just about all I vape. Time, aging, treatment, method, tobacco variety, there are any number of variables in play. After trying many methods I've settled on PGA (Everclear) extraction for the cleanest liquid. Filtering plays an import role of course, I do final, one micron, freeze filtering.

As well, I'm finding how aggressive the extraction process is can lead to subtle or not so subtle changes in flavor. I think when I began I wondered if I could get enough strength from the tobacco. Now, seeing just how robust I can make an extract, and with many vials at various stages of process and age, my goal is to see how I can influence for nuance and smoothness, replicating what I enjoyed about the original tobacco.

Always happy to discuss NETs further if so inclined ;-)

I like PGA, but in my experince extracts made with PGA tend to have the flavor diminish fairly quickly compared to PG extracts.

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

skeene said:
has anyone tried using whole leaf cigarette tobacco? I was thinking of ordering a pound before but I never had much success with cigars, extract was always weak . i gave up on the process

Yeah actually at www NaturallyExtractedTobaccos Clay Packard made like three different Gaulliose cigarette e-juices, and one of them was just outta this world.The cigarettes were attempt at creating types of cigarettes that were made circa WW I era.

Markw4mms · Mar 16, 2017

Here's a recipe from here that I saved a long time ago. It's pretty much what you're talking about trying.
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/close-to-backo-bwb-backo-clone.13446/

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

RonJS said:
Yup

I'm thinking around .01 mg (or less)

Soaking tobacco in PG is not going to extract much nic. According to that organic chemist Kurt "at that other place", to extract nic....

" It is a standard amine alkaloid extraction/acid-base flip method, but of course hidden in those several words is a lot of specialized glassware, solvents, acids, bases, and instruments to measure purity."

Ron
---
" Well, you can't sit on a couch twenty hours a day and not learn something."- Peggy Bundy

yeah with the hokey ass kitchen tools we have we couldn't extract enough nic to get a fly high.

happy valley · Mar 16, 2017

pulsevape said:
I like PGA, but in my experince extracts made with PGA tend to have the flavor diminish fairly quickly compared to PG extracts.

For me that has not been the case with PGA, in fact I often let extracts rest a good while, several weeks or so, after initial filter steps to let any residual wax/oil coalesce on the vessel bottom and sides before final freeze filtering so not to clog 1µ paper quite so quickly.

I believe there are a number of variables in play, method and varietals being a couple and of course an individuals taste, but I've found PGA has offered the cleanest, most robust flavor profiles for making NETs, PG in comparison seems somewhat muted. As usual, YMMV ;-)

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

happy valley said:
For me that has not been the case with PGA, in fact I often let extracts rest a good while, several weeks or so, after initial filter steps to let any residual wax/oil coalesce on the vessel bottom and sides before final freeze filtering so not to clog 1µ paper quite so quickly.

I believe there are a number of variables in play, method and varietals being a couple and of course an individuals taste, but I've found PGA has offered the cleanest, most robust flavor profiles for making NETs, PG in comparison seems somewhat muted. As usual, YMMV ;-)

I always put the PGA extract in the freezer and let the waxes solidify and freeze then siphon of the finished extract, I've also tried letting the extract rest with white clay to collect solids.like they do in winemaking...at the end of the day NET juices are just buggers at tearing up coils.I've found PGA definitely is the cleanest on coils and flavor...I've found PG extracts to be more robust, but I attribute that to the fact the waxes are still in the extract..I've only filtered down to 2.5 microns..everybody I talked to felt going down to 1 microns would filter the flavor out of the extract.plus evaporating off the PGA is a bit of a pain in the ass.although running PGA through lab filters is alot quicker than even filtering with PG

pulsevape · Mar 16, 2017

happy valley said:
For me that has not been the case with PGA, in fact I often let extracts rest a good while, several weeks or so, after initial filter steps to let any residual wax/oil coalesce on the vessel bottom and sides before final freeze filtering so not to clog 1µ paper quite so quickly.

I believe there are a number of variables in play, method and varietals being a couple and of course an individuals taste, but I've found PGA has offered the cleanest, most robust flavor profiles for making NETs, PG in comparison seems somewhat muted. As usual, YMMV ;-)

I always wondered about trying Butane extraction or what I'm really waiting for is someone to try a supercritical CO2 extraction of tobacco.I'm really surprised nobody has tried it yet.

happy valley · Mar 17, 2017

pulsevape said:
I always wondered about trying Butane extraction or what I'm really waiting for is someone to try a supercritical CO2 extraction of tobacco.I'm really surprised nobody has tried it yet.

Yeah, could be interesting, I've done a little reading about it, IIRC mainly discussing a way to extract nic. Get a serious NET discussion going and home brew guys are always reaching for ways to experiment, IE: somebody will inevitably bring up distillation.

On the other thing, PGA seems to be fairly aggressive at extracting flavor, more so for me than PG. I'm a former pipe smoker with the almost embarrassing question of what to do with a large stash of cellared tobacco (over 50 lbs) so more often than not I'm starting with pretty robust tobaccos, Gawith&Hoggarth/Samuel Gawith/Rattray's/Dunhill/MacBaren/McClelland/etc.
As mentioned above, my goal is to see how I can influence the process for nuance and smoothness, replicating what I enjoyed about the original tobacco in the pipe, just now without combustion.

Alter · Mar 18, 2017

I tried making a NET with a couple broken cubans I bought from a cigar store. Generally speaking it worked out not bad for my first attempt. My mistake was using too much PG to soak the leaves in so I ended up having to make 50/50 blend to be able to vape it and it didn't taste as good as it should. My next go if I do I would put all my crush into the jar, add some PG then smash it down, add a bit more PG then smash some more and leave it rather thick looking to give the leaves time to settle, don't totally submerge the leaves right off the bat or like me you'll have too much PG and not enough flavor. Its better to add bits of PG cause you can't remove it if you used too much. First a few filterings through coffee filters then a 60ml syringe with a cotton plug for the last couple filterings and it came out quite clear. It does gunk coils quickly but I knew that before I got started. I will attempt to build a NET again when I come across some cigars or leaf next time I'm traveling through a larger city that has good cigar stores.

pulsevape · Mar 18, 2017

happy valley said:
Yeah, could be interesting, I've done a little reading about it, IIRC mainly discussing a way to extract nic. Get a serious NET discussion going and home brew guys are always reaching for ways to experiment, IE: somebody will inevitably bring up distillation.

On the other thing, PGA seems to be fairly aggressive at extracting flavor, more so for me than PG. I'm a former pipe smoker with the almost embarrassing question of what to do with a large stash of cellared tobacco (over 50 lbs) so more often than not I'm starting with pretty robust tobaccos, Gawith&Hoggarth/Samuel Gawith/Rattray's/Dunhill/MacBaren/McClelland/etc.
As mentioned above, my goal is to see how I can influence the process for nuance and smoothness, replicating what I enjoyed about the original tobacco in the pipe, just now without combustion.

for smoothness I could see doing a cold VG maceration for about 3 months..

RonJS · Mar 18, 2017

Alter said:
I tried making a NET with a couple broken cubans I bought from a cigar store. Generally speaking it worked out not bad for my first attempt. My mistake was using too much PG to soak the leaves in so I ended up having to make 50/50 blend to be able to vape it and it didn't taste as good as it should.

If you have any left, you might consider using it as part of the PG in your next NET. I've done that with fine success.

Ron
---
"I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade."- Morticia Adams

Alter · Mar 19, 2017

I really shit the bed with the PG cause with 2 cigars I ended up with 400mls of NET after filtering and thats way too much. I would have never thought of using that NET for my next NET...Great idea.
Thanks Ron

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