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Liquid Nicotine for Electronic Cigarettes Toxic for Kids - myfreedomsmokes May Have Some Explaining

5150sick

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http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...onic-cigarettes-toxic-for-kids-300381118.html

The actual study with all data included:

www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(16)30926-X/fulltext


FIRST
Myfreedomsmokes has A LOT of explaining to do.


The patient’s mother had previously purchased 1 L of unflavored nicotine Smoke Juice E-liquid online from http://myfreedomsmokes.com, marketed as “the highest grade nicotine available” and sold directly to consumers, packaged in a “laboratory use only” amber-colored glass bottle (Figure 2). This liquid comes prepared with a 50:50 base of propylene glycol:vegetable glycerin. The patient’s mother had then diluted this concentrated nicotine liquid at home with an equal volume of vegetable glycerin, purchased from the same Web site and diluted according to instructions she found online. The purchased liquid was labeled with a nicotine concentration of 60 mg/mL, and the patient’s mother believed she was diluting it 2-fold to an intended final concentration of 30 mg/mL. Unbeknownst to her husband, the patient’s mother had stored this final dilution in a readily available empty used ibuprofen bottle that she labeled “NIC” and stored in the refrigerator (Figure 1). The use of inappropriate and poorly labeled containers introduces obvious risk for unintentional exposures and dangerous adverse events.


gr2.jpg

Figure 2
Concentrated liquid nicotine purchased by the patient’s mother online, with commercial labeling advertising a total of 1 L of nicotine solution at 60 mg/mL.

Assuming the patient’s mother correctly diluted the commercial product by half with vegetable glycerin, the initial product’s nicotine concentration was 140.6 mg/mL, or 234% of advertised (60 mg/mL) (Figure 2). This finding supports previous work demonstrating that electronic cigarette refill containers may have unreliable commercial labeling and widely variable actual nicotine concentration compared with that advertised.Possible reasons for this discrepancy may include manufacturing error or lack of quality control. It remains unclear why this retailer packages its direct-to-consumer products in “laboratory use only” glass bottles. Possible explanations may include an appeal to a consumer’s desire for product purity, to circumvent regulations, or to encourage users to dilute the solution before use; regardless, these products are clearly intended for eventual personal use.



SECOND:
This story has all the great scary hype that creates good clickbait. lies, propaganda, child neglect & child endangerment that actually appears as a vaping problem when it's a really stupid set of parents' problem.
The only clickbait pointer that this article missed was that they didn't blame the Russians for anything. - 5150




And now for the child neglect & child endangerment:

The patient's mother had filled an empty ibuprofen bottle with liquid nicotine she mixed herself, using a combination of unflavored nicotine she purchased online and vegetable glycerin. The child's father, not realizing the ibuprofen bottle contained his wife's nicotine, administered a dose to his daughter for pain associated with a sprained ankle.

If I had been involved in this I would have begged the police to arrest me and my wife and charge us for this stupid, stupid crime.

Who here if they had children in the house would actually put their NIC Base in THIS?:


gr1.jpg

Figure 1
Used ibuprofen bottle filled with home preparation of liquid nicotine and labeled “NIC.”



Would you expect to be charged with child endangerment once your kid was given a dose of your nic base out of this bottle?

I would demand to be charged if I did something this stupid - 5150
 
Last edited:

outwest

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It does appear that myfreedomsmokes screwed up big time. The parents have huge amount of shared culpability, though, what with putting it in the motrin bottle. smh Yeah, I've been guilty of reusing bottles for other items, but I ALWAYS remove the original label and make sure it's clearly marked as to what it is, even if I'm, say refilling a bathroom cleaner spray bottle with an ammonia solution (after all, ammonia if mixed with bleach creates toxic fumes). I cant even imagine someone thinking putting nic in a medicine bottle would turn out okay. I don't have kids and I label each amber bottle I label it as Nicotine with concentration amount, carrier (PG etc), etc. Why? Because at some point someone other than myself could be getting in the freezer.
 

AndriaD

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And now for the child neglect & child endangerment:

The patient's mother had filled an empty ibuprofen bottle with liquid nicotine she mixed herself, using a combination of unflavored nicotine she purchased online and vegetable glycerin. The child's father, not realizing the ibuprofen bottle contained his wife's nicotine, administered a dose to his daughter for pain associated with a sprained ankle.

If I had been involved in this I would have begged the police to arrest me and my wife and charge us for this stupid, stupid crime.

Who here if they had children in the house would actually put their NIC Base in THIS?:


gr1.jpg

Figure 1
Used ibuprofen bottle filled with home preparation of liquid nicotine and labeled “NIC.”



Would you expect to be charged with child endangerment once your kid was given a dose of your nic base out of this bottle?

I would demand to be charged if I did something this stupid - 5150

I agree, the major stupid shown in this story is that of the mother, putting nicotine in such a container; what a total fucking idiot. And the dad to some extent, for not realizing that any children's medicine is going to have some godawful "fruity" smell, taste, and appearance, like neon red or something. (I was a victim of said godawful flavoring until I mastered the art of swallowing pills AT THE AGE OF 7, IN SHEER SELF-PROTECTION!)

But yeah, it's very troublesome that a reputable vape vendor would sell "60mg" nicotine that is actually 140mg, more than twice as strong as labelled, and they're surely liable for that.

I don't get the fucking hysteria about the brown glass bottle. It's better than fucking plastic!

Andria
 

Whiskeywarrior

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Looks like I need one of those test kits. I'm positive that the nic I got is about double what it says. I'm not too mad about it though as I only make 3mg and got at least 6, the way I see it I got twice as much nic as I paid for. Just gotta 1/2 the nic amount. Still pissed me off at first. I ordered 60ml of 100mg/ml.
 

BigNasty

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Ugh three times stronger, ya MFS has some splainin to do. Seriously fucking explanations actually. 140mg is toxic even to those of us that are tolerant of nic.

But the mother is not all that in the brains department. Lucky the the little one lived, but seriously what in the blue fuck I had a hard time reading that, and her not telling him?
That dumb bitch is a danger to herself and her children.
 

AndriaD

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I'd also like to point out that it is utterly pointless and stupid to dilute nicotine for storage; it makes it take up more room, and you run the risk of someone not knowing what it is, unless you are intelligent and motivated enough to clearly label it, before storing it. If the fucktard wench had left the shit in the bottle it came in, that bottle's contents would have been clearly, if erroneously, labelled -- at least labelled enough for the damn dimwit dad to not go giving it to their kid. :facepalm: With parents like that, it might be better to place the child in the custody of someone else.

Andria
 

Time

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I'm not so sure MFS is to blame yet. I have not read the story except in this thread yet, but..........

Assuming the patient’s mother correctly diluted the commercial product by half with vegetable glycerin, the initial product’s nicotine concentration was 140.6 mg/mL, or 234% of advertised (60 mg/mL) (Figure 2).

It looks to me like they tested the mothers mix and not the the bottle she bought. Why assume the mother correctly diluted the product?

Maybe she didn't shake the base before mixing. Maybe she measured wrong. If they did not test the bottle from MFS, there may be no problem.

ETA, it's confirmed. They did not test the MFS base. Just the mothers.
 
Last edited:

Rabbit Slayer

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I'm not so sure MFS is to blame yet. I have not read the story except in this thread yet, but..........

Assuming the patient’s mother correctly diluted the commercial product by half with vegetable glycerin, the initial product’s nicotine concentration was 140.6 mg/mL, or 234% of advertised (60 mg/mL) (Figure 2).

It looks to me like they tested the mothers mix and not the the bottle she bought. Why assume the mother correctly diluted the product?

Maybe she didn't shake the base before mixing. Maybe she measured wrong. If they did not test the bottle from MFS, there may be no problem.
wouldn't the mix contain 60mg/ml or less regardless of how she diluted it?
 

Time

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wouldn't the mix contain 60mg/ml or less regardless of how she diluted it?

No. She only made 30ml. If she didn't shake the nic and say poured 15ml from the top with pure nic separated at the surface, her "diluted" finished product could turn out at higher than 60mg.

VU gets new posters all the time complaining that their juice is harsh and when asked, they did not shake their base before mixing. I've talked to several that shaking their base fixed their problem.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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No. She only made 30ml. If she didn't shake the nic and say poured 15ml from the top with pure nic separated at the surface, her "diluted" finished product could turn out at higher than 60mg.
ah that makes sense...can ya tell I don't diy :)
 

Train

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Agreed - "assuming the patient's mother correctly diluted" is a stretch. I'd assume nothing of the kind about that family...
Still - it IMPLIES that the mix in the Motrin bottle was at about 70 mg/ml - STILL over the expected strength even if they're just downright making up the step of diluting.

Also of interest - the kid, 6 years old, DRANK THE EQUIVALENT OF 4 FULL 30ml BOTTLES of 6mg Nic.
And lived.

Just pointing out:
- Nic's maybe not all that deadly? Really - definitely lucky kid, and I'm glad - but what IS the toxicity?
- Also considering -
Who the hell would take more than a teensy sip of e-juice? It's NASTY.
So the concern that "Kids are gonna drink a bottle of e-liquid because it's called Fruity Pebbles" is bullshit.
They wouldn't, and if they did, it'd make them throw up, maybe.

DIY strength nic - yeah, it should be handled and stored and labelled properly.
Same as 20 other chemicals in my house.
 

Whiskeywarrior

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I shook the piss out of mine beforehand, and I can feel that it's way more than it should be. Accidents do happen, even in labs, and you can get more than you bargained for. Mind you I'm not defending what idiotic things she did but, I do feel bad for her whole family. Just a bad situation all around.
 

Time

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Still - it IMPLIES that the mix in the Motrin bottle was at about 70 mg/ml - STILL over the expected strength even if they're just downright making up the step of diluting.

But if she did not shake the base before diluting she could have poured or sucked up pure nic that had separated.
 

5150sick

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No. She only made 30ml. If she didn't shake the nic and say poured 15ml from the top with pure nic separated at the surface, her "diluted" finished product could turn out at higher than 60mg.

VU gets new posters all the time complaining that their juice is harsh and when asked, they did not shake their base before mixing. I've talked to several that shaking their base fixed their problem.

Though possible the bottle that was photographed as the original container from MFS was at the very least empty to the top of the yellow label as pictured.

Since it is a one liter bottle it is safe to say that at least 1/3 of a liter was missing before she poured the last 30ml's in the motrin bottle unless, of course she is a total wack job and has 29 other 30ml motrin bottles that she filled up after that one stashed away somewhere in the house.

One could assume that the reason that they didn't test the nicotine base in the MFS bottle since the scientists (or police) had it in their possession to photograph it was because it was empty after she filled the motrin bottle.

That could be the reason she just didn't dump an equivalent amount of VG into the MFS bottle at that time because having a one liter bottle with 30ml's of 30mg/ml nic base in it is a huge waste of space.

There has to be a damned good reason why they didn't test the nic directly from the MFS bottle since I have no doubt that the "parents" will be blaming MFS in a court of law and trying to recoup their doctors bills, loss of wages, pain & suffering, etc....

The only reason that I can possibly think of is that the bottle is now empty.
 

outwest

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I'm not so sure MFS is to blame yet. I have not read the story except in this thread yet, but..........

Assuming the patient’s mother correctly diluted the commercial product by half with vegetable glycerin, the initial product’s nicotine concentration was 140.6 mg/mL, or 234% of advertised (60 mg/mL) (Figure 2).

It looks to me like they tested the mothers mix and not the the bottle she bought. Why assume the mother correctly diluted the product?

Maybe she didn't shake the base before mixing. Maybe she measured wrong. If they did not test the bottle from MFS, there may be no problem.

ETA, it's confirmed. They did not test the MFS base. Just the mothers.
Good catch. So yeah, myfreedomsmokes might have sent exactly what was ordered if she wasn't shaking/stirring it before use. Considering the fact that she thought it fine to put it in a Motrin bottle with a barely visible nic marking added to the back label, I'd say the chances are pretty damn high that she hasn't been shaking/stirring her nic base.
 

Time

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Though possible the bottle that was photographed as the original container from MFS was at the very least empty to the top of the yellow label as pictured.

Since it is a one liter bottle it is safe to say that at least 1/3 of a liter was missing before she poured the last 30ml's in the motrin bottle unless, of course she is a total wack job and has 29 other 30ml motrin bottles that she filled up after that one stashed away somewhere in the house.

One could assume that the reason that they didn't test the nicotine base in the MFS bottle since the scientists (or police) had it in their possession to photograph it was because it was empty after she filled the motrin bottle.

That could be the reason she just didn't dump an equivalent amount of VG into the MFS bottle at that time because having a one liter bottle with 30ml's of 30mg/ml nic base in it is a huge waste of space.

There has to be a damned good reason why they didn't test the nic directly from the MFS bottle since I have no doubt that the "parents" will be blaming MFS in a court of law and trying to recoup their doctors bills, loss of wages, pain & suffering, etc....

The only reason that I can possibly think of is that the bottle is now empty.

It actually doesn't matter why they didn't test the MSF bottle. No matter how it's looked at, it's irresponsible in the least for a scientific study to draw a conclusion without having tested the original bottle. It's pure speculation and the fact that they even mention "industry concerns" leads me to believe it is agenda driven. They don't actually care.

A lawsuit against MSF won't be successful. The child would have been poisoned if the bottle she was fed from had the correct 30mg/ml that the mother intended.
 

hollynorth

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Yes, I do agree with that liquid nicotine using for e-cigarette can be toxic for kids and it can harm them by their regular use.:yes:
 

outwest

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Yes, I do agree with that liquid nicotine using for e-cigarette can be toxic for kids and it can harm them by their regular use.:yes:
I would hope, though, that you would have the good sense to not put nicotine in a kid's medicine bottle. That's what the idiot in article did.
 

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