China Bashing - I Don’t Get It

f1r3b1rd · Mar 24, 2018

Time said:
Likewise, you could afford US made gear, if it weren't for China.

If China had not destroyed our manufacturing base so that US wages were higher, you would not have to buy the cheap stuff. You could afford US made stuff.

Not that it is completely China's fault. The Trade Deals of the past made it possible.

This... exactly this....

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Time · Mar 24, 2018

Mattp169 said:
And regardless do you hear people on this forum calling juice companies out for stealing recipes or ideas from one another like people on this forum call out an entire country for doing it over mod designs and atomizers?

Um, I've heard people on this forum call out juice vendors for all kinds of shit from testing to mixing in bathrooms. I've called out a US nicotine vendor for false claims.

Fuck off with your racist shit. We can call out China or anyone else. Fuck you if you don't like it. Sometimes a complaint is just a complaint. Everything is not a fucking racist agenda, fuckhead.

If you have not noticed, I'm not a fan of the racist accusations. That got old about four elections ago. I have no patients for that type of bullshit anymore. You can shove a racist up your asshole.

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

Time said:
Um, I've heard people on this forum call out juice vendors for all kinds of shit from testing to mixing in bathrooms. I've called out a US nicotine vendor for false claims.

Fuck off with your racist shit. We can call out China or anyone else. Fuck you if you don't like it. Sometimes a complaint is just a complaint. Everything is not a fucking racist agenda, fuckhead.

If you have not noticed, I'm not a fan of the racist accusations. That got old about four elections ago.

hell we call out vendors for all sorts of things, far less offensive than stealing recpieces..we call them out for lousy service, we call them out when they don't return e-mails, we call them out if they treated a customer shabbily, when they play the old steal from Peter to pay Paul scam... I've called out juice makers for taking 4 weeks to fill a simple order. or nic vendors for low quality oxidized nic, or ect. we don't have a goverment agnecy overseeing us thank God we air our dirty laundry in public, we police ourselves it is how we have avoided the goverment from stepping in and policing us and I wish it could stay that way.

Mattp169 · Mar 24, 2018

Time said:
Um, I've heard people on this forum call out juice vendors for all kinds of shit from testing to mixing in bathrooms. I've called out a US nicotine vendor for false claims.

Fuck off with your racist shit. We can call out China or anyone else. Fuck you if you don't like it. Sometimes a complaint is just a complaint. Everything is not a fucking racist agenda, fuckhead.

If you have not noticed, I'm not a fan of the racist accusations. That got old about four elections ago. I have no patients for that type of bullshit anymore. You can shove a racist up your asshole.

Obviously my point is completely lost on you.

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

Mattp169 said:
Obviously my point is completely lost on you.

slandering people who disagree with you ...is not a point, it's just slander.

skt239 · Mar 24, 2018

The Chinese hate everyone who isn’t Chinese. They even break down different types of Chinese to discriminate against. If you are not of the Han ethnicity, prepare for some discrimination.

HondaDavidson · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
No American citizen voted for the trade policies between China..the industrialists in this country bought our political class to give most favored trade status to China before they moved a single chair out of the US..the whole game was set up by the corporations and a corrupt political class...nobody in America thinks for a minute that the Politicans in Washington DC give a rat's ass what the American people want.or how they vote.head we win tales you lose...wow what's your vote worth...the Corporations have turned the US into a Globalist (not Chinese) colony and we have idiots gratefull for it.

American citizens that vote for those that made bad policy and bad deals over at least the last 100 years.. voted for what we have today.

Fact Is Japan Germany and China and many more would all be smoking piles of garbage.. if not for Policies of the US government. Especially our generous rebuilding efforts after Wars.

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pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

skt239 said:
The Chinese hate everyone who isn’t Chinese. They even break down different types of Chinese to discriminate against. If you are not of the Han ethnicity, prepare for some discrimination.

it has historically gone to extremes to isolate itself from the rest of the world...although they may say protect itself from the rest of the world...hard to say which is right or wrong...

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

HondaDavidson said:
American citizens that vote for those that made bad policy and bad deals over at least the last 100 years.. voted for what we have today.

Fact Is Japan Germany and China and many more would all be smoking piles of garbage.. if not for Policies of the US government. Especially our generous rebuilding efforts after Wars.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

they stopped countring our votes in 1916...the political class of this country don't give a damn about what you think or anyone else who doesn't have a suitcase full of cash think...we have no more effect on policy than our pet cats.

The Cromwell · Mar 24, 2018

jwill said:
When I buy clones it is generally of a high ticket item (usually something American made or some other super premium something). If it works for me, I pony up and get the real thing. There are several things I have ended up purchasing and falling in love with and many that have been walked away from that would have pissed me off shelling out big bucks for and hating.

Yes and sometimes one buys clones because the authentic is just not available to get.

The Cromwell · Mar 24, 2018

Pastorfuzz said:
No biggie! Marantz maybe headquartered in Japan, but 99% of their audio is made in China.
Plus most can't even be repaired because the parts can't be sourced from anywhere.
A friend of mine bought a $2600.00 Marantz surround sound receiver (CHINA) and it took a crap after a year and a half.
He took it to Chicago Audio (authorized repair center) and they told him they can't get the parts new anymore. WTF?
They did end up getting the part out of another identical junk receiver 3 mos. later and fixed it.

We live in a disposable society.
how do you expect them to sell more if we could keep them going with repairs?

Mods are the same way try getting parts for them.
A few mechs and such yes maybe a chipset if Evolv or the other best known.
But try getting an exact fit 510 for most mods?
New battery contacts? Squonk tube assembly?

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

The Cromwell said:
Yes and sometimes one buys clones because the authentic is just not available to get.

true, but if the modders could mass produce their own gear they would be cheaper and more avialable....and that is China's fault

Time · Mar 24, 2018

Mattp169 said:
Obviously my point is completely lost on you.

Oh, I got your point.

Mattp169 said:
I am sick of tired of the racists comments made about China.

Mattp169 said:
SO to call China out for it when American companies and companies all over the world do the same thing is racist

When your point is that saying anything bad about China is racist, my point is that you can shove your point up your ass.

THIS thread is about China. If you want to talk about another country or American companies bullshit, then start a thread about them and If it's in order we'll call them them out. There is nothing racist about it. And making it a racist issue makes you a first class piece of shit.

f1r3b1rd · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
true, but if the modders could mass produce their own gear they would be cheaper and more avialable....and that is China's fault

Eelkoenigin damn near proved that point with their tanks a few years back with the prince.

ErlK was 160$ but the prince was 40$. Both vaped identical unless you upgraded the airflow and positive pin of the erlk.

Unfortunately chIna was still putting out the clones under 40$ and flooded the prince out of the market. Only one reatailer in the states stocked the prince... (that I’m aware of)

Zamazam · Mar 24, 2018

Pastorfuzz said:
No biggie! Marantz maybe headquartered in Japan, but 99% of their audio is made in China.
Plus most can't even be repaired because the parts can't be sourced from anywhere.
A friend of mine bought a $2600.00 Marantz surround sound receiver (CHINA) and it took a crap after a year and a half.
He took it to Chicago Audio (authorized repair center) and they told him they can't get the parts new anymore. WTF?
They did end up getting the part out of another identical junk receiver 3 mos. later and fixed it.

Sheese, Marantz and McIntosh were the premier Stereo and Surround sound founders with Pioneer. Sad some are made in China with no parts available.

Zamazam · Mar 24, 2018

skt239 said:
The Chinese hate everyone who isn’t Chinese. They even break down different types of Chinese to discriminate against. If you are not of the Han ethnicity, prepare for some discrimination.

Just ask a Mongolian or a Tibetan.

Mattp169 · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
slandering people who disagree with you ...is not a point, it's just slander.

i slandered no one seriously, I am trying to have a civil conversation.. the worst thing I said is a statement is ignorant which is saying that it is misinformed

I may not know everything, and if I find out actual facts that disprove my own beliefs I am willing to change my beliefs.

I don't disagree that shady shit happens in china but I believe it happens everywhere and to call the chinese out for it is just BS in my opinion and yes because its an entire country which is mainly one race, that is racism to me. That's not a political statement. I will admit racist my not be the right term, but its the closest to the correct term I can come up with. maybe xenophobic is more correct.

You have to also understand I am in the musical instrument industry and I deal with the China and also Taiwan bashing over quality. People who believe that all those countries can produce is a $200 POS sax that can not play in tune and will fall apart in a week. When in reality China and Taiwan produce some of the finest musical instruments produced in the world today. They also make the worst ones available as well. Its what the consumers want. They want a $200 POS sax to buy for one reason and a $3k professional professional sax for another reason. There are plenty of reputable business people in china who act with the same moral compass as many of us. So I really do not like seeing the whole country getting shit on for the actions of a few... The same is true in other countries. American get shit on for stereotypes which may not actually hold true for the vast majority of Americans.

hellcatrydr · Mar 24, 2018

Zamazam said:
Just ask a Mongolian or a Tibetan.

We really need to build that wall... Oh wait.....

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

Zamazam said:
Just ask a Mongolian or a Tibetan.

SILENCE!!!!! you counter revolutionary scum.

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

f1r3b1rd said:
Eelkoenigin damn near proved that point with their tanks a few years back with the prince.

ErlK was 160$ but the prince was 40$. Both vaped identical unless you upgraded the airflow and positive pin of the erlk.

Unfortunately chIna was still putting out the clones under 40$ and flooded the prince out of the market. Only one reatailer in the states stocked the prince... (that I’m aware of)

yep..the modders could survive if we gave them half a chance, but we don't we cut their throats because we just want to get the latest and newest for the cheapest.

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

Mattp169 said:
i slandered no one seriously, I am trying to have a civil conversation.. the worst thing I said is a statement is ignorant which is saying that it is misinformed

I may not know everything, and if I find out actual facts that disprove my own beliefs I am willing to change my beliefs.

I don't disagree that shady shit happens in china but I believe it happens everywhere and to call the chinese out for it is just BS in my opinion and yes because its an entire country which is mainly one race, that is racism to me. That's not a political statement. I will admit racist my not be the right term, but its the closest to the correct term I can come up with. maybe xenophobic is more correct.

You have to also understand I am in the musical instrument industry and I deal with the China and also Taiwan bashing over quality. People who believe that all those countries can produce is a $200 POS sax that can not play in tune and will fall apart in a week. When in reality China and Taiwan produce some of the finest musical instruments produced in the world today. They also make the worst ones available as well. Its what the consumers want. They want a $200 POS sax to buy for one reason and a $3k professional professional sax for another reason. There are plenty of reputable business people in china who act with the same moral compass as many of us. So I really do not like seeing the whole country getting shit on for the actions of a few... The same is true in other countries. American get shit on for stereotypes which may not actually hold true for the vast majority of Americans.

I wonder how much of your view of China is colored by the fact China provides you with lots of shiny trade beads.To say China is like other countries is just not honest. I can't think of a single country China would call a "friend"...in it's long history it is unique in the world for it's intolerance of cultural influences from any other people's within it's borders.Travel within it has been strictly controlled regardless of the goverment.Information and knowledge of the rest of the world is highly controled....it is not like most countries in the world, We all know this.We turn a blind eye because we are willing to deal with a devil for the short term immediate gratification of our addiction to materialism, they know this and use it against us,

Mattp169 · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
I wonder how much of your view of China is colored by the fact China provides you with lots of shiny trade beads.To say China is like other countries is just not honest. I can't think of a single country China would call a "friend"...in it's long history it is unique in the world for it's intolerance of cultural influences from any other people's within it's borders.Travel within it has been strictly controlled regardless of the goverment.Information and knowledge of the rest of the world is highly controled....it is not like most countries in the world, We all know this.We turn a blind eye because we are willing to deal with a devil for the short term immediate gratification of our addiction to materialism, they know this and use it against us,

its more that my view of the world is that I believe ALL people are inherently good. Yes there are bad people in the world, there are evil people in the world. Call it naive if you want, it is what it is.. Maybe I do not know enough about the culture of China or its government, maybe you know a lot more about it. But I know nothing that makes me feel its ok to bash an entire country of people who I believe most of them are good people, maybe good in a slightly different way then me due to cultural differences, for the actions of some or to judge those actions completely based on my own narrow limited view of the world I do know I have dealt with Chinese countries in the past and had no issues with them.

pulsevape · Mar 24, 2018

Mattp169 said:
its more that my view of the world is that I believe ALL people are inherently good. Yes there are bad people in the world, there are evil people in the world. Call it naive if you want, it is what it is.. Maybe I do not know enough about the culture of China or its government, maybe you know a lot more about it. But I know nothing that makes me feel its ok to bash an entire country of people who I believe most of them are good people, maybe good in a slightly different way then me due to cultural differences, for the actions of some or to judge those actions completely based on my own narrow limited view of the world I do know I have dealt with Chinese countries in the past and had no issues with them.

oh so you believe in cultural relevancy is that it......I don't think anybody here bashed a group of people...other than goverment politicians, dishonest bussinessmen, and corporations, and bloated blind fools lost in the twight light zone of consumerisim.

The Cromwell · Mar 24, 2018

Bash China all you want.
Do you realize that after 8-8-2018 all vaping stuff without an active PMTA application with the FDA can be pulled from the US market.
Unless the exact same thing was sold in the USA before 8-8-2016.
Spend you time and energy fighting the Deeming regs.
We will soon be begging China to send us vape stuff and mark it as something else so it may not get seized at customs.

Mattp169 · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
oh so you believe in cultural relevancy is that it......

I do not know what that term means or how you are using it. I do believe cultural differences sometimes make one thing ok in one culture that may not be acceptable in another. For example marriage. Just because a enough people in America have gotten gay marriage legalized here in the states, that does not mean we as americans should look down our noses at another culture for not doing the same AND vice versa they should not look down at our culture for doing it. I think there are cultural differences and SOMETIMES both sides should be able to respect the differences, HOWEVER there are times when there could be culture differences of a moral nature then one must decide how to respond to that and respecting those differences may not be the right answer.

Mattp169 · Mar 24, 2018

pulsevape said:
oh so you believe in cultural relevancy is that it......I don't think anybody here bashed a group of people...other than goverment politicians, dishonest bussinessmen, and corporations, and bloated blind fools lost in the twight light zone of consumerisim.

you edited after I posted

You know maybe that's what people mean, they are bashing the groups you say, but I feel it often very generalized and its the country as a whole being bashed. Bashing someone for good reason for something they actually did is one thing. If they do it because of corruption etc bash that too. And if your statements are meant to do that more power to you. I mean obviously i is not only myself seeing many of the statements made on this forum as a broad generalization against the entire country or otherwise this thread would not have started. So maybe the whole thing is just misunderstanding between what people mean when the type something and how someone else interprets what they read

Pastorfuzz · Mar 24, 2018

I must have missed something.
I thought this thread was about Chinese products. Not the Chinese people.

skt239 · Mar 24, 2018

Pastorfuzz said:
I must have missed something.
I thought this thread was about Chinese products. Not the Chinese people.

Well Chinese products and Chinese corporations and according to the US govt, corporations are people too.

The Cromwell · Mar 24, 2018

skt239 said:
Well Chinese products and Chinese corporations and according to the US govt, corporations are people too.

But Chinese coprorations are not US citizens and not protected by the constitution

But is a Chinese owned corporation located in the USA a citizen?

PoppaVic · Mar 25, 2018

corporations are not citizens.

The Cromwell · Mar 25, 2018

PoppaVic said:
corporations are not citizens.

Ahh but they have constitutional right of free speech just like a citizen per the supremes.
And other ones I suppose as well.

pulsevape · Mar 25, 2018

Mattp169 said:
I do not know what that term means or how you are using it. I do believe cultural differences sometimes make one thing ok in one culture that may not be acceptable in another. For example marriage. Just because a enough people in America have gotten gay marriage legalized here in the states, that does not mean we as americans should look down our noses at another culture for not doing the same AND vice versa they should not look down at our culture for doing it. I think there are cultural differences and SOMETIMES both sides should be able to respect the differences, HOWEVER there are times when there could be culture differences of a moral nature then one must decide how to respond to that and respecting those differences may not be the right answer.

Well I think even us dumb rednecks can tell the differnce between the tank in Tiananmen and the lone chinese citizen who it ran over.or tell the difference between the chinese corporation, and the 50,000 chinese infants that they sent to a hospital with posionous baby formula.

Ryedan · Mar 25, 2018

skt239 said:
One thing I’ve always found curious is our irrational china bashing. All political BS aside, I just don’t get it. I think I should have my own sub forum called “The things I Don’t Get” because the things I don’t get could fill a sub forum...

China practically invented vaping and has made it accessible to anyone who wants to quit and has roughly $25 to spend. They have advanced the technology at break neck speeds and given us so many options and variations of products we complain about having too many options. Not to mention the affordability. The Chinese are famous for their competive business practices, often so competitive that they ruin their own businesses. This sucks for them but is great for us, the consumer.

A good example of this is the price war between Chinese owned bus companies that did runs from DC to NYC. The price war got so out of control, you could take a bus from NY to DC for a shirt button and two cereal box tops. Many people like to bring up the clone issue but that’s moot. They are only making what the consumer demands and there will always be a market for counterfeit shit.

In closing I’ll say - if you disagree with me, imagine a world where all vaping products came from the US and Europe at Euro and US prices. Would you still be vaping?

Let the flaming begin.

I don't actually see much China bashing these days, but I've been around since early 2012 and IMO it was a lot worse then so it may just be a relative thing.

As I understand it vaping as we know it today originated in China and then spread to the rest of the world. That was a good thing for me.

I switched to vaping using a Joytech eGo-c kit that was manufactured in China. It cost me around $80 Canadian dollars, which was not inexpensive for what it was at the time, specially compared to the technology I can buy now. IMO if it was not for that availability I would not have made the switch back then and would have smoked a lot longer than I did. I'm pretty happy with that scenario

Carambrda · Mar 25, 2018

skt239 said:
The Chinese hate everyone who isn’t Chinese.

Just send in the navy TBH.

Synphul · Mar 25, 2018

I think a lot of it is baseless. Not saying when it comes to mods china doesn't make shit products but it's amazing how people will stand up for a product they believe is made in the US, when it fact it turns out to be 'designed' in the US and made in china. Well the product didn't change, so it's either good or it's not regardless where it was made.

Another head scratcher, saw someone post a response on a social media post where people were talking about smok and vandy vape. They said 'those are mass produced chinese shit, get voopoo'. Huh? lmfao. Apparently unlike smok, vandy or geekvape, a US artisan is hand whittling voopoo mods. haha.

Zohmbiebuilds · Mar 25, 2018

I can see both sides of the coin. In more than just Vaping. Cons, thieves, and clones. I don't mind good clone but when yourn copying the markings eh, it's a bit over the top.

That being said, I still have clones. The kryten is the perfect example. I tried that clone, loved it, and am in the process of actually saving up pennies and scrounging to get the authenticity.

I tried the nardA, and I really didn't like that tight of a draw. I'm not out 2 beans so it's all good. I actually learned to love it rather than right off the bat loving it like I did the pulse series and the dead rabbit.

Hell, I fucking love my pulse squonker. It's got it's flaws but that mod opened up abs/nylon/alumide 3d printed style mods. If that cheap of a mod felt that sturdy I wouldn't hesitate.

That being said, I think I'm going to outsource my Vaping to dual parallel squonk mods that I make.

( Got some parts, going to try my hand. I'll get it, it isn't rocket science)

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

Zohmbiebuilds · Mar 25, 2018

AndriaD said:
This. China didn't take our jobs by force -- they did it by offering good terms for mass industrialization, which American industialists ate up like candy. So the Americans look good for helping to get all that nasty industrial pollution off onto China, who don't care what their environment is, if they're high up enough in the Chinese govt machine, they can escape to whatever Shangrila suits their fancy. And the American businessmen who look so sanctified for cleaning things up don't get their proper blame for exporting our jobs wholesale, when they damn well ought to. If OUR govt put a high tariff on any company outsourcing any part of their labor to the 3rd world, companies would stop doing it. Prices would go up of course, for many of the products we commonly buy, but hey, we got our jobs back!

It's all a balancing act; you do something good and useful for your country, and the far-reaching effects of that activity are hard to comprehend when you're signing on the dotted line, and it's usually not the muckety-mucks who bear those costs, it's the working... or unemployed... people.

Andria

Your brain geared at the God given gift of decernment. We see through the bullshit, and at every angle the bullshit was tossed. Great replies to get someone thinking. Great thread.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

bobnat · Mar 25, 2018

The Cromwell said:
We will soon be begging China to send us vape stuff and mark it as something else so it may not get seized at customs.

Done and done.

bobnat · Mar 25, 2018

Mattp169 said:
you edited after I posted

You know maybe that's what people mean, they are bashing the groups you say, but I feel it often very generalized and its the country as a whole being bashed. Bashing someone for good reason for something they actually did is one thing. If they do it because of corruption etc bash that too. And if your statements are meant to do that more power to you. I mean obviously i is not only myself seeing many of the statements made on this forum as a broad generalization against the entire country or otherwise this thread would not have started. So maybe the whole thing is just misunderstanding between what people mean when the type something and how someone else interprets what they read

It's a thin line we all walk upon and we fall from side to side all the time. It goes on in every culture, it's not just a US problem at all.

bobnat · Mar 25, 2018

pulsevape said:
I wonder how much of your view of China is colored by the fact China provides you with lots of shiny trade beads.To say China is like other countries is just not honest. I can't think of a single country China would call a "friend"...in it's long history it is unique in the world for it's intolerance of cultural influences from any other people's within it's borders.Travel within it has been strictly controlled regardless of the goverment.Information and knowledge of the rest of the world is highly controled....it is not like most countries in the world, We all know this.We turn a blind eye because we are willing to deal with a devil for the short term immediate gratification of our addiction to materialism, they know this and use it against us,

What I find interesting about China is that they were the enemy of the US due to ideological differences. The fact that China is a communist country has scared many people in the west. Other than fucking with the US in Vietnam, we really haven't had many geopolitical problems until recently when they decided that half of the Pacific belongs to them. Every right-minded American knows the entire Pacific belongs to us.

Many Americans can't uncouple the ideas of democracy and capitalism. Many still believe that capitalism isn't possible without democracy. China's economic ascendancy has put that idea in the grave. The US has gladly and fully embraced China the economy, but many still are very uncomfortable with China, the godless communists. The world has always been a place where many powerful states existed and balanced each other out politically, economically and militarily. The aberration of the bi-polar world of the Cold War era is over and the world is moving back to multiple powers constantly challenging each other. Most of the world is fine with it and many welcome it. It scares the fuck out of Americans. Hence, the tone of "conversations" such as these.

pulsevape · Mar 25, 2018

bobnat said:
What I find interesting about China is that they were the enemy of the US due to ideological differences. The fact that China is a communist country has scared many people in the west. Other than fucking with the US in Vietnam, we really haven't had many geopolitical problems until recently when they decided that half of the Pacific belongs to them. Every right-minded American knows the entire Pacific belongs to us.

Many Americans can't uncouple the ideas of democracy and capitalism. Many still believe that capitalism isn't possible without democracy. China's economic ascendancy has put that idea in the grave. The US has gladly and fully embraced China the economy, but many still are very uncomfortable with China, the godless communists. The world has always been a place where many powerful states existed and balanced each other out politically, economically and militarily. The aberration of the bi-polar world of the Cold War era is over and the world is moving back to multiple powers constantly challenging each other. Most of the world is fine with it and many welcome it. It scares the fuck out of Americans. Hence, the tone of "conversations" such as these.

America has never been a democracy, We are a Republic a fact most Americans are taught by the sixth grade in public school...China is not capitalist...you can't have Capitalisim without the right to private property rights...like say the right to intellectual property...the goverment of China does not recognize the right to private property ..go ask a chinese citizen..I'm not sure you know the differnce between Capitalisim and a group of totalitarin thugs holding a nation under it's boot and creating a safe haven for globalist corporations, to skirt the labor,enviormental,and tax laws of countries where people actually get to vote, read whatever they want,have free speech and are not run over by tanks in the public parks.

r055co · Mar 25, 2018

The Cromwell said:
the sad truth is America is in descent and China is in Ascension right now.
it sucks but the way it is.
I do not agree with they way China is run nor do I agree with the way the USA is run.

pulsevape · Mar 25, 2018

r055co said:

For a long time I would have been one of the first to agree that the US is in descent, but I'm starting to ponder a different thought, a different view...Perhaps America is not in descent, but in the midst of an awakening, they are awakening to the fact that the socialist experiment , and the central bank scam of 1916 that was forced upon America, and the neo-socialisim starting with FDR and ramped up under the "great society" of LBJ is collapsing . just as the social democracts of europe have run their states into the ground under the same policies.Perhaps it is not America as founded that is in decline but the illusion and shabby con job of phony egalitarianisim that has become threadbare and worn out..Perhaps we are on the cusp of a great realization of how we were hoodwinked to abandon our principles for empty promises and well crafted lies.That we wake up and realize the cultural bedrocks of the West and why,and how they were laid down in the first place.and restore them...

r055co · Mar 25, 2018

pulsevape said:
For a long time I would have been one of the first to agree that the US is in descent, but I'm starting to ponder a different thought, a different view...Perhaps America is not in descent, but in the midst of an awakening, they are awakening to the fact that the socialist experiment , and the central bank scam of 1916 that was forced upon America, and the neo-socialisim starting with FDR and ramped up under the "great society" of LBJ is collapsing . just as the social democracts of europe have run their states into the ground under the same policies.Perhaps it is not America as founded that is in decline but the illusion and shabby con job of phony egalitarianisim that has become threadbare and worn out..Perhaps we are on the cusp of a great realization of how we were hoodwinked to abandon our principles for empty promises and well crafted lies.That we wake up and realize the cultural bedrocks of the West and why,and how they were laid down in the first place.and restore them...

While in general terms I agree, to me it's the cycle of the western empire as a whole. In the West we've become lazy with an entitlement attitude. Since around the turn of the 20th Century we here in the U.S. have went from being Citizens to Consumers, Consumers being a product. Also mass manipulation which the Nephew of Sigmund Freud who was Edward Bernays pioneered Public Relations, Focus Groups and the mass marketing. Basically manipulation of the masses, the BBC did and outstanding documentary on this called The Century of the Self.

It's not Socialism vs _______ it's about controlling the masses which the very few like the Rothschild's do. Look at the foundation of the Rhode Scholarship and the writings of Cecil Rhodes himself to why he created it. There are very few elements in the world that control everything, Banking, Media, Energy, Food, etc. We here in the U.S. for a very long time have just had the illusion of freedom, the mass marketing has/does it's job very, very well. Where I washed my hands of the entire mess is when the Patriot Act went into action and continues to be justified by those in power and supported by the sheep.

Bottom line is we don't have a Republic in the U.S. any longer, it's been an Oligarchy for a long time.

The Cromwell · Mar 25, 2018

Yeah we became a consumer/debtor based economy in the 80's.

yeah the patriot Act.

OHH KEEP US SAFE PLEASE!
Stupit sheeple.

r055co · Mar 25, 2018

The Cromwell said:
Yeah we became a consumer/debtor based economy in the 80's.

Actually years before that, I say it started with Bernays around the turn of the 20th Century.

yeah the patriot Act.

Yep Patriot Act = Enabling Act, 911 was our version of the burning of the Reichstag

OHH KEEP US SAFE PLEASE!
Stupit sheeple.

Yep, fear is a major tool in controlling of the Masses along with other distractions and what not.

Read Machiavelli The Prince, another playbook they use

The Cromwell · Mar 25, 2018

r055co said:
Actually years before that, I say it started with Bernays around the turn of the 20th Century.

Yep Patriot Act = Enabling Act, 911 was our version of the burning of the Reichstag

Yep, fear is a major tool in controlling of the Masses along with other distractions and what not.

Read Machiavelli The Prince, another playbook they use

Actually we officially became a debtor nation under Reagan. At least in recent history.

r055co · Mar 25, 2018

The Cromwell said:
Actually we officially became a debtor nation under Reagan. At least in recent history.

It fully kicked in with the creation of the Federal Reserve

KKen · Mar 25, 2018

My personal take on most China vape products is like Macdonalds, I personally think quality is just shit for the masses with the offerings being mostly recycled ideas in different sizes and colors. Once in a rare while I will indulge myself with either one, but in the end, I often feel like I just wasted money lol

The exceptions IMO to the above statement would be companies like Innokin, Joyetech, Aspire or Kanger, I have always found many of their products to be quite innovative and quite frankly, the only viable alternatives to converting a smoker to vaping. Of course, like with anything else there is the occasional dud, but for the most part, I hope they continue making vaping products and remain successful doing it.

The Cromwell · Mar 25, 2018

Ahh but Kanger seems to have discontinued the Subtank Mini V2 in favor of the Toptank Mini...

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