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Advice for new RTA owner

Hello everyone

This is my first post here so a very warm hello to you all.

I’ve been vaping since about January 19 using prebuilt coils in the SKRR tank, coupled with my Vaporesso Luxe.

After enjoying the DIY aspect of making my own eliquid I decided to jump into the RDA/RTA scene.

An RDA wouldn’t really suit me as my job involves a lot of driving so I went for an RTA.

More specifically the Hellvape Rebirth RTA. I love it, despite the fact it took me 3 attempts to get the wicking right as I think I was using too much cotton initially resulting in some very unpleasant dry hits but I think i’ve overcome this issue now, third time lucky.

My current coil set up is Standard wire SS316L at 26AWG with the total resistance coming out at 0.3 Ohms for the 2 coils (8 wraps each, as specified by steam engine). Was very impressed with myself for getting the resistance right on the money!


I’ve been finding recently, even before my switch to an RTA that wattage mode wasn’t doing it for me, the vape just got too hot too fast generally so i’ve switched to TC mode.

First impressions were ‘whoa that’s a freezing cold vape’ but also a lot more consistent rather than just ever increasing temperature until you can’t bear it in wattage mode

I’ve played around with the settings and am currently on 250 C for the temp and 57W. I know it’s down to personal preference but I wondered if these settings are ok? Steam engine stated the Wattage to be used with this set up as being 52W, is this still the case when in TC mode and what effect will increasing/decreasing the wattage have?

I have been getting a bit of spit back within the first second of the vape but it quickly stops and I’m unsure if this is due to it being new coils or something to do with my set up.

Any and all advice would be very much appreciated, thank you
 

MrMeowgi

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Welcome to the Vu first of all. Glad to have you here. When in temp control the wattage is used to reach the desired temp. Higher wattage the faster it will reach the set temperature. If the setting are working for you then that's where I'd stay. But I've noticed a lot cooler vape from temp control which makes it just OK for me some time. I like a warmer vape so have to set the temp higher than I normally would
 
Welcome to the Vu first of all. Glad to have you here. When in temp control the wattage is used to reach the desired temp. Higher wattage the faster it will reach the set temperature. If the setting are working for you then that's where I'd stay. But I've noticed a lot cooler vape from temp control which makes it just OK for me some time. I like a warmer vape so have to set the temp higher than I normally would

Thank you. Yeah I tend to like a warmer vape but am going to give it a try to see if I get used to temp control.

So about wattage, it doesn’t matter if I say put it up to 70/80 watts even though the recommended wattage is 52 watts, just don’t want to damage the coils or anything.

When you say it’s quicker to heat up with higher wattage what sort of time frame are we talking?

Also what temperature is ok to go up to with my set up? My mod can go up to 315 C is it ok to go that high?

Sorry for all the questions!
 

MrMeowgi

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No problem for the questions at all. That's what we're here for. Cotton starts to burn around 450f. Not sure what the conversion of that is to celcius. Turning the wattage up just decreases the ramp up time. Maybe a second or two faster than the lower wattage. When I use temp control I usually sit about 480f and 45 watts.
 

VinnySem

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Hello everyone

This is my first post here so a very warm hello to you all.

I’ve been vaping since about January 19 using prebuilt coils in the SKRR tank, coupled with my Vaporesso Luxe.

After enjoying the DIY aspect of making my own eliquid I decided to jump into the RDA/RTA scene.

An RDA wouldn’t really suit me as my job involves a lot of driving so I went for an RTA.

More specifically the Hellvape Rebirth RTA. I love it, despite the fact it took me 3 attempts to get the wicking right as I think I was using too much cotton initially resulting in some very unpleasant dry hits but I think i’ve overcome this issue now, third time lucky.

My current coil set up is Standard wire SS316L at 26AWG with the total resistance coming out at 0.3 Ohms for the 2 coils (8 wraps each, as specified by steam engine). Was very impressed with myself for getting the resistance right on the money!


I’ve been finding recently, even before my switch to an RTA that wattage mode wasn’t doing it for me, the vape just got too hot too fast generally so i’ve switched to TC mode.

First impressions were ‘whoa that’s a freezing cold vape’ but also a lot more consistent rather than just ever increasing temperature until you can’t bear it in wattage mode

I’ve played around with the settings and am currently on 250 C for the temp and 57W. I know it’s down to personal preference but I wondered if these settings are ok? Steam engine stated the Wattage to be used with this set up as being 52W, is this still the case when in TC mode and what effect will increasing/decreasing the wattage have?

I have been getting a bit of spit back within the first second of the vape but it quickly stops and I’m unsure if this is due to it being new coils or something to do with my set up.

Any and all advice would be very much appreciated, thank you
Firstly, welcome to VU!
I am an avid temp control vaper, I vape in TC exclusively. I made the same journey, from sub-ohm tanks, to RTAs, now I have a mix of RTAs, RDAs, and squonk setups.

Is your coil spaced? Or did you build a micro/contact coil? Just as an FYI spaced coils are more stable in temp control and you don't have to worry about hot spots. It's possible that a contact coil could be causing the spit back, maybe?
 
Firstly, welcome to VU!
I am an avid temp control vaper, I vape in TC exclusively. I made the same journey, from sub-ohm tanks, to RTAs, now I have a mix of RTAs, RDAs, and squonk setups.

Is your coil spaced? Or did you build a micro/contact coil? Just as an FYI spaced coils are more stable in temp control and you don't have to worry about hot spots. It's possible that a contact coil could be causing the spit back, maybe?

Thank you. It isn’t spaced. Thanks for the tip, wasn’t aware of that about spaced coils! Not sure what micro/contact means, but the coil is all together and I strummed the coils and got any hot spots out before wicking. It just spits maybe once or twice and then it’s fine. Also not sure what the TCR setting should be, mines set to 101
 

VinnySem

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Thank you. It isn’t spaced. Thanks for the tip, wasn’t aware of that about spaced coils! Not sure what micro/contact means, but the coil is all together and I strummed the coils and got any hot spots out before wicking. It just spits maybe once or twice and then it’s fine. Also not sure what the TCR setting should be, mines set to 101

Here's a pic of a spaced coil:
8cdffd8e2d13deb69644903601a94474.jpg

There is a really good "Temp Control Q&A" thread here. Read through it. Lots of good tips there. Also, watch pbusardo's videos on Youtube he's a big TC guy as well he has good TC build tips.
You can Google the TCR for your wire, just make sure you use the correct grade of SS, 316 is different from 316L. Does your mod have a SS mode for TC? Usually SS TC mode is preset for SS316L.
And micro/contact coil means that all the winds touch, and as you did you worked out the hotspots which is correct. But spaced coils are said to be more stable in TC.
 
Great info, I’ll check out that video and the thread.

Yes it has a SS mode for TC and the wire is definitely 316L. I changed the setting as found some info online saying it should be lower (about 94) but wasn’t sure about going down that low, although I have zero idea what effect it has to change it anyway!

Also, I just tried switching back to Wattage mode and am finding I get a dry hit if I vape for more than 3-4 seconds at a time, is this normal? It wicks fine in TC mode and the cotton is nice and wet.
 

Theboss

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Great info, I’ll check out that video and the thread.

Yes it has a SS mode for TC and the wire is definitely 316L. I changed the setting as found some info online saying it should be lower (about 94) but wasn’t sure about going down that low, although I have zero idea what effect it has to change it anyway!

Also, I just tried switching back to Wattage mode and am finding I get a dry hit if I vape for more than 3-4 seconds at a time, is this normal? It wicks fine in TC mode and the cotton is nice and wet.
Welcome to VU.

In my experience spit back is directly related to one of 2 things, the way your coil is wicked or the chamber flooding. If you don't have enough cotton in your coils you'll experience a lot of spit back when you first fire.

Dry hits in wattage mode on an RTA usually means too much cotton in your wicking ports. Try fluffing/thinning your cotton out before filling those ports. There's a fine line between enough so that it won't leak and not too much so that it doesn't wick back up to the coil fast enough. It takes some practice, but once you get it right you'll just always repeat it.

Good luck
 
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Welcome to VU.

In my experience spit back is directly related to one of 2 things, the way your coil is wicked or the chamber flooding. If you don't have enough cotton in your coils you'll experience a lot of spit back when you first fire.

Dry hits in wattage mod on an RTA usually means too much cotton in your wicking ports. Try fluffing/thinning your cotton out before filling those ports. There's a fine line between enough so that it won't leak and not too much so that it doesn't wick back up to the coil fast enough. It takes some practice, but once you get it right you'll just always repeat it.

Good luck

I did use less cotton on the most recent attempt as was worried I’d used too much the previous times (cotton was very tight in the coils). When I put the cotton in the filling ports I don’t think I thinned it out enough, I did comb it to fluff it up but then I cut the excess off the end so it was a straight cut pretty much.
 

MrMeowgi

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Hey guys. Glad someone else jumped in to help. Didn't mean to bail. But was up 60ft cutting a tree. And vinnysim probably knows more about tc than me anyways
 

Wb80

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I love the rebirth rta. Good choice. Not the easiest rta for a beginner but sounds like your getting a hold of it.
 

SteveS45

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Makes sense. Any idea about what could be causing the spit back?

Welcome @Mikemsp86 and I hope you enjoy your stay~!

Spit back in my experience is Not Enough Power, you are getting more liquid to the coil than it can vaporize. I also use TC regularly on MOD's people who don't know how to use it say the MOD's don't do TC correctly. It isn't the tool it is the person using it.
 
Yeah I think I’m getting there, it is a lot to learn but I’m enjoying making the coils and wicking, it is quite rewarding when you think you’re doing it right, even though it might not actually be right!

I decided to redo my coils and make some spaced ones instead on Vinnysem’s recommendation.

According to Steam engine they were supposed to be 0.11 ohm but they came out as 0.14 ohm (using 22AWG 316L this time). Looking at the recommended wattage it says 98 watts for this set up. And what I’ve noticed vaping in TC mode is that looking at the wattage while vaping it is nearly always on the set wattage if I choose a wattage below 98, for example if I have it set to 70 watts it might go down to 67ish and then go back up to 70 whereas with my previous coils it was hitting the set wattage (50 at the time) and then dropping down to about 20/30 watts and it suddenly seemed a cooler vape or at least the flavour would drop off significantly. With this new set up the flavour is consistent and the temp seems constant too.

Does it matter that the wattage I’ve set is lower than recommended 98 watts when vaping in TC? As the flavour is pretty much phenomenal (DIY Lime Zinger, simple but refreshing)

Also in the photo of the wicking, which side looks more like the amount of cotton I should be using?
 

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SteveS45

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Does it matter that the wattage I’ve set is lower than recommended 98 watts when vaping in TC?

I vape at 20-25% less than the recommended minimum wattage no matter what coils I use. I find I get more flavor and a cool vape that I seek. JMFO
 
Hi Steve. Thanks for the info! I wonder why with my previous coils I was vaping at the recommended wattage of about 50 watts but it was dropping off and getting spit back. Could it have been to do with using closed coils instead of spaced?
 

SteveS45

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Hi Steve. Thanks for the info! I wonder why with my previous coils I was vaping at the recommended wattage of about 50 watts but it was dropping off and getting spit back. Could it have been to do with using closed coils instead of spaced?

That I can't tell you because I only use closed coils and never spaced. But now we get into batteries and state of charge when the issue arises there are so many variables there is no definitive answer without having it in my hands. Good Luck my New Friend~!
 

VinnySem

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For setting the wattage, I will usually open steam engine and use the Ohm's law page to figure how many watts to throw at a coil to achieve around 4 volts. Then I set my temps to 420-450F. Also when I do a dual coil build, I use a thinner wire (28g/36g Clapton) and at most 5 wraps, for a faster ramp up time. Depending on your mod and the charge of your batteries, it may take longer for your coils to hit your target temp, for a 22g wire with a lot of wraps. I have a 5-wrap .37 ohm dual coil build in my Reload X RDA, and I get tons of flavor and really big clouds with that at 45 watts and 450F.

From my experience, you don't need really low ohm builds to get a great vape when using TC.

What I was saying earlier about "some mods not doing TC correctly or very good" just about any mod with a TC mode will give you a really good vape. But I have an old eVic VTC mini which was the mod I had when I made the switch to TC. That mod would pulse power to the coil while being fired to maintain the temp, which gave the feeling of the temp dipping, then rising again, then dipping, then rising, instead of a constant steady temp. May not be a big deal for some folks but I didn't like it one bit.

Keep at it dude and keep us posted! It can be frustrating at first at times but the tinkering is half the fun!
 
When I put roughly what your coil set up is into the coil wrapping section of steam engine, to get the recommended power the same as what you said you vape it at, the resistance has to be about 0.12 ohms. Very possible I’m doing something wrong?

Had a bit of an issue today, the coils were still spitting even when using spaced, so I rearranged the cotton a bit so there was more in the coil and closed the air hole about a third and it is dramatically reduced, can still here it fizzing a bit bit and the occasional pop bug it doesn’t make it as far as my tongue! Vaping it at about 60 watts 220C (430F) with the spaced SS316L 22AWG coils with 8 wraps

I have some 24/32 fused dual core Clapton wire on order but looking at the figures sounds like high wattage is required for that wire so I’ve also ordered some 28/38 fused dual core Clapton too
 
Ah ok no problem.

I know it isn’t the best picture but would you say my coil spacing is ok? I am still getting some spit back and fizzing noise but it is less than before as I’m now using 26 Gauge and lower wattage
 

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VinnySem

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Ah ok no problem.

I know it isn’t the best picture but would you say my coil spacing is ok? I am still getting some spit back and fizzing noise but it is less than before as I’m now using 26 Gauge and lower wattage

Yeah man your spacing looks fine. It doesn't have to be perfectly uniform just so long as they aren't touching. The fizzing noise is ok I think. How's your wicking? And how many ohms is your build reading on your mod and how many watts are you throwing at it?
 
Yeah to be honest I’m not complaining about the fizzing as the flavour is great. I’ve noticed that if I chain vape it the fizzing stops and the flavour died so I’m happy with the fizzing as long as it tastes good. Wicking is fine as far as I can tell, can see bubbles in the tank after each vape, which I’m assuming is good?

My build is reading 0.23 Ohms and I’m vaping in TC at 225C (435F) with it set at 40W

The other thing I’d say is that I’ve had to modify my vaping style. When I was using the SKRR tank I tended to chain vape with pretty strong force with no issue. With this tank I find if I chain vape with hard intake the flavour goes after about 3-4 draws. If I leave about 10 seconds between draws and pull on it lighter the flavour is exceptional. I’ve learnt a lot in the past week!
 

VinnySem

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Yeah to be honest I’m not complaining about the fizzing as the flavour is great. I’ve noticed that if I chain vape it the fizzing stops and the flavour died so I’m happy with the fizzing as long as it tastes good. Wicking is fine as far as I can tell, can see bubbles in the tank after each vape, which I’m assuming is good?

My build is reading 0.23 Ohms and I’m vaping in TC at 225C (435F) with it set at 40W

The other thing I’d say is that I’ve had to modify my vaping style. When I was using the SKRR tank I tended to chain vape with pretty strong force with no issue. With this tank I find if I chain vape with hard intake the flavour goes after about 3-4 draws. If I leave about 10 seconds between draws and pull on it lighter the flavour is exceptional. I’ve learnt a lot in the past week!

The bubbles are a good sign that means it's wicking well! Keep at it, it's a learning experience and once you get the basic hang of it then you start experimenting with other builds, it's fun!! Enjoy!!
 
Thank you. I think I’m getting the hang of it, i haven’t had any issues with making the coils or connecting them to the deck, it was just general lack of knowledge really, I didn’t know spaced coils were even a thing!

It’s the wicking that’s troubled me more to be honest. Watching videos on YouTube didn’t really help as they generally have extreme close up cameras where it’s difficult to get perspective on how much cotton to use etc, but I feel like I’m learning.

Excuse the rubbish photo again but which wick looks more like the ideal thickness to you?
 

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Mykreign

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Thank you. I think I’m getting the hang of it, i haven’t had any issues with making the coils or connecting them to the deck, it was just general lack of knowledge really, I didn’t know spaced coils were even a thing!

It’s the wicking that’s troubled me more to be honest. Watching videos on YouTube didn’t really help as they generally have extreme close up cameras where it’s difficult to get perspective on how much cotton to use etc, but I feel like I’m learning.

Excuse the rubbish photo again but which wick looks more like the ideal thickness to you?
I'd use the one on the right as it looks like it fills the coil better, but I'd also comb the tails a bit. Ive found that when it comes to good wicking, where your cotton tails end is more important than the amount of cotton in the hole. For example, on your rta, I'd make the tails just long enough to fit into the rim of the base. Don't let the tails go all the way to the bottom of the deck. This allows room for your air bubbles to escape = good wicking.

Fizzing and/or popping is ok as long as it's not spitting at you. Means you're getting a saturated hit and I strive for that sound on every build I do. Because you said you can't chain vape without getting dry hits and it's spitting, I'd say you need more cotton in your coil.

In regard to your wattage dropped in TC mode: let's say you set it at 40w and 430F. Your mod is going to fire at 40w until it reaches the desired 430F. At that point your wattage will drop to keep your coils at that 430F temp. I'm not a TC vaper bit I believe this to be correct.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I'd use the one on the right as it looks like it fills the coil better, but I'd also comb the tails a bit. Ive found that when it comes to good wicking, where your cotton tails end is more important than the amount of cotton in the hole. For example, on your rta, I'd make the tails just long enough to fit into the rim of the base. Don't let the tails go all the way to the bottom of the deck. This allows room for your air bubbles to escape = good wicking.

Fizzing and/or popping is ok as long as it's not spitting at you. Means you're getting a saturated hit and I strive for that sound on every build I do. Because you said you can't chain vape without getting dry hits and it's spitting, I'd say you need more cotton in your coil.

In regard to your wattage dropped in TC mode: let's say you set it at 40w and 430F. Your mod is going to fire at 40w until it reaches the desired 430F. At that point your wattage will drop to keep your coils at that 430F temp. I'm not a TC vaper bit I believe this to be correct.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I took your advice and rewicked with the tails a bit above the deck and there’s more bubbles than before and the taste is even better. I’m think I used the right thickness of cotton as it was tight through the coils but just not quite enough to move them but it did look quite thick as I filled the ports. Is there a general rule of thumb for how thick a piece of muji cotton to cut?
 

VinnySem

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I'd use the one on the right as it looks like it fills the coil better, but I'd also comb the tails a bit. Ive found that when it comes to good wicking, where your cotton tails end is more important than the amount of cotton in the hole. For example, on your rta, I'd make the tails just long enough to fit into the rim of the base. Don't let the tails go all the way to the bottom of the deck. This allows room for your air bubbles to escape = good wicking.

Fizzing and/or popping is ok as long as it's not spitting at you. Means you're getting a saturated hit and I strive for that sound on every build I do. Because you said you can't chain vape without getting dry hits and it's spitting, I'd say you need more cotton in your coil.

In regard to your wattage dropped in TC mode: let's say you set it at 40w and 430F. Your mod is going to fire at 40w until it reaches the desired 430F. At that point your wattage will drop to keep your coils at that 430F temp. I'm not a TC vaper bit I believe this to be correct.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

All this 100%
 

Mykreign

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I took your advice and rewicked with the tails a bit above the deck and there’s more bubbles than before and the taste is even better. I’m think I used the right thickness of cotton as it was tight through the coils but just not quite enough to move them but it did look quite thick as I filled the ports. Is there a general rule of thumb for how thick a piece of muji cotton to cut?
I'm sure there is a certain thickness depending on the I.D. of your coil. I don't use pads though so hopefully someone else can help you out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Mykreign

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Oh and glad you got it working! There's not many things better than a satisfying vape :)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Thanks. Seriously this flavour is unbelievable. Considering it’s technically 40W (at the most) in temp control I just can’t believe the flavour I’m getting.

I hope the fused dual core Clapton wire I have on the way will improve things even further from the standard wire I’m using now

Edit: going to have to rewick again. Tastes really saturated first couple of vapes and then goes really dry, completely drys my mouth out. I’m guessing it’s not burnt taste because I’m in temp mode?
I think I did use too much cotton last time maybe it’s not wicking fast enough?
 
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Yet more issues but I think I’m finally getting there with the wicking.

So I wicked up the old coils again with the ends of the cotton just inside the lip on the thread. Put it altogether and it leaked everywhere! Turns out from doing some research that this tank requires you to have the cotton touching the bottom of the deck. Compounding the problem was the fact I was using 26AWG wire with only 5 wraps, so a good portion of cotton was overhanging the air holes and I think juice was tracking down it as well.

I was quite annoyed by this point and decided to scrap the build and start again. I used the same SS316L standard wire 26AWG but used 2.5mm ID this time with 9 wraps, resistance of 0.28 ohms for the pair.

Wow, I cannot believe how much easier I found this to wick! The fact I’ve had a lot of practice wicking todayprobably helped, but I felt like I had a mini epiphany, I just knew how to do it. I did find the suggested amount of cotton as being 2.5 times the ID a big help, but in terms of how much to fluff it up and even how to fill the ports, it just came together for me. Think I’ll be using this ID until I get more practice, top tip then for anyone struggling like I was, stick to 2.5 ID at first!

I’m now vaping my set up at 225 C (435 F) at 48W and it’s all going well so far
 

ajvapes

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Yet more issues but I think I’m finally getting there with the wicking.

So I wicked up the old coils again with the ends of the cotton just inside the lip on the thread. Put it altogether and it leaked everywhere! Turns out from doing some research that this tank requires you to have the cotton touching the bottom of the deck. Compounding the problem was the fact I was using 26AWG wire with only 5 wraps, so a good portion of cotton was overhanging the air holes and I think juice was tracking down it as well.

I was quite annoyed by this point and decided to scrap the build and start again. I used the same SS316L standard wire 26AWG but used 2.5mm ID this time with 9 wraps, resistance of 0.28 ohms for the pair.

Wow, I cannot believe how much easier I found this to wick! The fact I’ve had a lot of practice wicking todayprobably helped, but I felt like I had a mini epiphany, I just knew how to do it. I did find the suggested amount of cotton as being 2.5 times the ID a big help, but in terms of how much to fluff it up and even how to fill the ports, it just came together for me. Think I’ll be using this ID until I get more practice, top tip then for anyone struggling like I was, stick to 2.5 ID at first!

I’m now vaping my set up at 225 C (435 F) at 48W and it’s all going well so far
All of the above, there is a learning curve to TC. I vape SS316L and I usually start at 235C and 60W. If the juice is thinner I drop the wattage. I adjust the temp to a point just before I get popping. Also if you can adjust the TCR setting, the TCR for 316L is 92...
 
Thanks for the info

Had a weird thing happen this morning on my first vape of the day. I vaped in TC mode (240C 45 watts) and the wattage dropped off almost straight away to about 15-20 watts resulting in a cool flavourless vape, happened a few times so I switched to wattage mode at 45watts and it was fine, full of flavour. So I switched back to TC a while later and it was fine. I was wondering whether the wicks had got oversaturated over night and maybe wattage mode burnt off the excess eliquid? Not sure but it’s been fine the rest of the day. Any tips to stop this if indeed it was the wicks being oversaturated?
 

PoppaVic

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/sigh
If it works well in Power mode/watts, why the hell continue to fight half-witted TC-mode? You could vape Wattage and just flagellate yourself - problems solved.
 

ajvapes

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Thanks for the info

Had a weird thing happen this morning on my first vape of the day. I vaped in TC mode (240C 45 watts) and the wattage dropped off almost straight away to about 15-20 watts resulting in a cool flavourless vape, happened a few times so I switched to wattage mode at 45watts and it was fine, full of flavour. So I switched back to TC a while later and it was fine. I was wondering whether the wicks had got oversaturated over night and maybe wattage mode burnt off the excess eliquid? Not sure but it’s been fine the rest of the day. Any tips to stop this if indeed it was the wicks being oversaturated?
Usually when it drops off in TC the wick is too dry,
 

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