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Kids will be kids...

gsmit1

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I'm going to say some things that I suspect a whole lotta people are thinking, but are afraid to say. At every point these are sprawling topics that extend far beyond and beneath anything directly to do with vaping, which is only the occasion for this present discussion.

Do not construe anything I say as a cold hearted curmudgeonly attitude toward children. Those who know me personally would snicker at the suggestion. There are however some unavoidable realities at play here that lead to some equally unavoidable positions.
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Other people's kids are not my responsibility.

Kids do stuff. Bad stupid stuff. Including myself. Always have, always will.

While I certainly don't encourage it, I am not concerned about teen vaping.

Most teens will try at least some stuff they see other teens trying. Especially when it looks cool and fun with no apparent immediate consequences.

Some percentage will descend into regular use. Always have, always will.

When I was a Detroit area teen 40 years ago this included a cornucopia of street drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. I loved the drugs and alcohol, but hated the cigarettes. I did pretty well for a while selling microdot in the bathroom at school.

Compared to mine, and untold vaaaaaast multitudes of other people's experiences going back decades, vaping is BY FAR the least concerning.

The liberties of responsible grown ups should not be infringed upon in the name of the state parenting other people's children, who are going to do bad stupid stuff no matter WHAT the state says or does anyway.

In light of the above and with the hope that I'm properly understood, when it comes to vaping, I say "screw the children." Vaping is the least harmful of all the crap that young people inevitably experiment with.
 
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gsmit1

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And another thing.

Why should I have to convince the state that I have a reason acceptable to them for enjoying vaping? I vape because I like it. I don't owe some bureaucrat I've never met a justification for that. Medical or otherwise.

GET OUTTA MY LIFE
 

Amber Petti

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Hmm... I might be misunderstanding, so bare with me...

The only problem I have with kids/teens vaping is if they use juice with nicotine in it, because at a young age they shouldn’t experience an addiction. (Of any kind for that matter)

Sorry if I misunderstood where you were coming from.
 

Rooster Cogburn

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Teens are using and getting addicted to the caffeine in coffee everyday, legally. I wouldn’t be surprised if down the line if we find out that some of the flavoring Starbucks adds to their (insert fancy sounding coffee here) is more dangerous to humans than vaping nicotine ejuice. Having said that I completely agree with OP. Vaping underage is illegal so banning anything vaping is completely unnecessary. Laws are in place, enforce them and leave us vapers alone.
 

The Cromwell

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Teens are using and getting addicted to the caffeine in coffee everyday, legally. I wouldn’t be surprised if down the line if we find out that some of the flavoring Starbucks adds to their (insert fancy sounding coffee here) is more dangerous to humans than vaping nicotine ejuice. Having said that I completely agree with OP. Vaping underage is illegal so banning anything vaping is completely unnecessary. Laws are in place, enforce them and leave us vapers alone.

Now you know that most humans want everyone else to be like them.
Be it vaping/smoking related or anti vaping/smoking, religion, politics, sports, etc
Too many want no one else to do something if they choose not to do it.
With many having fun seems to be a sin...
Just the way of humans.
 

gsmit1

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Hmm... I might be misunderstanding, so bare with me...

The only problem I have with kids/teens vaping is if they use juice with nicotine in it, because at a young age they shouldn’t experience an addiction. (Of any kind for that matter)

Sorry if I misunderstood where you were coming from.
No need to apologize :)
Alcohol

Tobacco

Marij*ana

Entirely unregulated and homemade street drugs. Including ******, cr*ck ******* and ****.

A range of illegally distributed prescription drugs. Including Hydro (Norcos), Ad*rall (addies) and Xan*x (zannies). These are everywhere on the street and in the schools here.

F*ntanyl. With a list of street names is also everywhere here.

L*D (acid), m*scaline (which is what microdot was), mushrooms and p*yote are still floating around too.
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We had anti-drug, alcohol and cigarette classes when I was in grade school in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I still remember all the scary stuff they told us AND showed us.

Here we are 40 years later after an endless barrage of regulations and programs to the tune of billions of dollars and kids STILL do all this stuff.

Compared to my list above, commercial nicotine vaping is a laughable threat.

So when it comes to vaping? I'm really not concerned. It's the least of my worries.

However it IS a uniquely useful propaganda tool in the hands of those who use children for that purpose.
 
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Amber Petti

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No need to apologize :)
Alcohol

Tobacco

Marij*ana

Entirely unregulated and homemade street drugs. Including ******, cr*ck ******* and ****.

A range of illegally distributed prescription drugs. Including Hydro (Norcos), Ad*rall (addies) and Xan*x (zannies). These are everywhere on the street and in the schools here.

F*ntanyl. With a list of street names is also everywhere here.

L*D (acid), mescaline (which is what microdot was), mushrooms and p*yote are still floating around too.
-------------------------------------
We had anti-drug, alcohol and cigarette classes when I was in grade school in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I still remember all the scary stuff they told us AND showed us.

Here we are 40 years later after an endless barrage of regulations and programs to the tune of billions of dollars and kids STILL do all this stuff.

Compared to my list above, commercial nicotine is a laughable threat.

So when it comes to vaping? I'm really not concerned. It's the least of my worries.

However it IS a uniquely useful propaganda tool in the hands of those who use children for that purpose.
You make extremely good points!
 

PoppaVic

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No need to apologize :)
Alcohol

Tobacco

Marij*ana

Entirely unregulated and homemade street drugs. Including ******, cr*ck ******* and ****.

A range of illegally distributed prescription drugs. Including Hydro (Norcos), Ad*rall (addies) and Xan*x (zannies). These are everywhere on the street and in the schools here.

F*ntanyl. With a list of street names is also everywhere here.

L*D (acid), mescaline (which is what microdot was), mushrooms and p*yote are still floating around too.
-------------------------------------
We had anti-drug, alcohol and cigarette classes when I was in grade school in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I still remember all the scary stuff they told us AND showed us.

Here we are 40 years later after an endless barrage of regulations and programs to the tune of billions of dollars and kids STILL do all this stuff.

Compared to my list above, commercial nicotine is a laughable threat.

So when it comes to vaping? I'm really not concerned. It's the least of my worries.

However it IS a uniquely useful propaganda tool in the hands of those who use children for that purpose.
Here's a clue: insure any politician playing #metoo on these bans becomes unemployed. That's all it takes.

I'm not remotely worried, since my HW is solid and safe - and the ejuice components will be around for a long, long time. They literally cannot BAN all the shit we use - just screw stores and those that don't DIY.
 

The Cromwell

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Here's a clue: insure any politician playing #metoo on these bans becomes unemployed. That's all it takes.

I'm not remotely worried, since my HW is solid and safe - and the ejuice components will be around for a long, long time. They literally cannot BAN all the shit we use - just screw stores and those that don't DIY.
Or those that use factory coils and such next year it seems.
 

obijuan77

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When I was a Detroit area teen 40 years ago
Yea, but boy have times changed. We also didn't have to wear helmets/elbow pads/knee pads when riding a bike. We had toys like BB guns, and slingshots and not everyone got a freaking trophy. But now a days it's the complete opposite. We have to protect the kids at all costs!!! ~ Especially the stupid ones.

How the HELL did I ever get to my 40's without all these things in place? I should have been dead as a toddler smh
 

gsmit1

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Here's a clue: insure any politician playing #metoo on these bans becomes unemployed. That's all it takes.
Is THAT all?!?!?! :rolleyes:

Yes, this is what I've been saying all along. Until it becomes politically damaging to oppose vaping and or politically advantageous to promote it, NOTHING else will make any difference.

The people in decision making positions couldn't care less about anybody's children. THE one and only thing that motivates them is advancing their own political career, which means power and money. I'm quite certain I care far more about them than they do.

For me this isn't even about vaping. My views on politicians have been formed over 25 years of watching them in action. This whole vaping thing is just the latest eye rollingly obvious chapter. Like I said in another thread. When I learned about this blitzkrieg on vaping it never even so much as crossed my mind that it might be about public health and saving children. I was like "here we go again."
 

PoppaVic

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Is THAT all?!?!?! :rolleyes:

Yes, this is what I've been saying all along. Until it becomes political damaging to oppose vaping and or political advantageous to promote it, NOTHING else will make any difference.

The people in decision making positions couldn't care less about anybody's children. THE one and only thing that motivates them is advancing their own political career, which means power and money. I'm quite certain I care far more about them than they do.

For me this isn't even about vaping. My views on politicians have been formed over 25 years of watching them in action. This whole vaping thing is just the latest eye rollingly obvious chapter. Like I said in another thread. When I learned about this blitzkrieg on vaping it never even so much as crossed my mind that it might be about public health and saving children. I was like "here we go again."
Only 25 years? ;-P
 

The Cromwell

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Humans seem to think that they auto magically get parenting skills when they father or give birth to a child.
And NO one can tell them how to raise their child! even if they cannot afford to raise it themselves.

Then they use the schools as a baby sitter instead of encouraging and helping their children to learn things that will help them in life.
And then when little Bobby fails they blame the teachers and schools.

Not all humans are this way but all too many are.
 
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obijuan77

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Kids didn't start this. Lazy stupid parents who can't teach their kids to lose with dignity started the trophy crap.
yes I agree, but why?

To protect the kids! We can't have a 'winner' and 'loser' right?
 

nadalama

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yes I agree, but why?

To protect the kids! We can't have a 'winner' and 'loser' right?

Hate to tell ya, but it isn't new.

When I first met my husband, he had sisters who were 12 and 14 years younger than him. The same parents who were hardasses when he was growing up molly-coddled those two young girls to the point of ridiculousness. If it was a birthday for one of them, they both got presents, because of course we can't hurt anybody's feelings or leave anybody out, now, can we? Somehow in that decade or so, things changed.

The way my sister was raised was different from the way I was. There's eight years between us.

Don't ask me why, but it's true. It's been heading this way for a good while now - at least 30-35 years. What are the chances anyone can turn it around now?

Hell, maybe I'm a member of the first generation to defend my kids over their teachers. I know when I was coming up, if a teacher punished me at school, I got as bad or worse when I got home.

I would have gone off the fucking deep end if any teacher had taken a paddle or something to one of my children. You wanna know why? Because I saw kids in my sixth grade class and in ninth-grade German and other classes get ABUSED by teachers. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy like that. I saw boys picked up by their shirt collars and shaken. I saw them paddled with boards with holes drilled in and staples sticking through. I saw teachers throw things at students, whack them on their backs with stainless steel pointers. I myself have been made to run laps in the sun until I seriously thought I was gonna die. I've seen a principal talk to my son like he was dirt on the bottom of her shoe, and she ended up saying to me, well I see where he gets his attitude from. But still, hell no, you are NOT gonna talk to my child like that.

So maybe that's why.
 

The Cromwell

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What happened to Parent Teacher organizations? Parents used to sit in classes from time to time.
 

SteveS45

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While I certainly don't encourage it, I am not concerned about teen vaping.

When I see a Teen vaping I always ask if they ever smoked. And usually the response is Hell NO, so I say then you should not be vaping but if you choose to do so instead of smoking then I won't tell you otherwise. It is only a confirmed 95% SAFER so you make your own choices but I will not encourage you until you are of LEGAL Age.
 

The Cromwell

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I encourage no one to vape except as a smoking cessation/alternative.
If they are legal age and want to vape it is their choice but I will not encourage them.

Oh and I expect a nationwide 21 smoking/vaping age in the near future.
I am of mixed view on that...
 

SteveS45

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I encourage no one to vape except as a smoking cessation/alternative.
If they are legal age and want to vape it is their choice but I will not encourage them.
Oh and I expect a nationwide 21 smoking/vaping age in the near future.
I am of mixed view on that...

Says he ignores me but replies to EXACTLY what I posted~! Stop your shit already you sorry ass excuse for human flash.
 

The Cromwell

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I knew you would do that. When I left for a bit I took everyone off of ignore thought I wold give them another chance when I came back.
But if you are piffled that I do not have you on ignore that can be easily fixed.
Note I may peek at ignored members posts in my own threads as I think it would be rude to not see what they post and reply.
However if they are rude then no more peeks.

the choice is yours Steve.
 

SteveS45

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I knew you would do that.

Yes I knew you are so full of shit reading or not actuaklly ignoring those you say you do. Do you think I am the only one who sees how full of shit you are? Grown a pair you waste of flesh.
 

The Cromwell

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Yes I knew you are so full of shit reading or not actuaklly ignoring those you say you do. Do you think I am the only one who sees how full of shit you are? Grown a pair you waste of flesh.
You made your choice, On ignore it is and no peeking even in my threads.

Strange how I make a post that agrees with yours and I am full of shit LOL
 

SteveS45

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Note I may peek at ignored members posts in my own threads

This isn't your thread and your threads I ignore. Oh did I offend your pussy ass? FACT still remains you are a lying pussy who gets a woody saying you ignore people. If they are on IGNORE why do you read? Douchebag~!
 

SteveS45

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I tried....

You tried what? I tried to smooth over whatever your Snowflake ass took as OFFENSIVE years ago but you ignored the PM. So fuck you and the Lawn Mower you Pretend to ride in on.
 
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gsmit1

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Hmm... I might be misunderstanding, so bare with me...

The only problem I have with kids/teens vaping is if they use juice with nicotine in it, because at a young age they shouldn’t experience an addiction. (Of any kind for that matter)

Sorry if I misunderstood where you were coming from.
Let me put this another way.

I should have been dead, I don't know how many times, before my 18th birthday. Anything from being found unconscious face down with a puddle of puke frozen to my head, to waking up miles from the last place I remembered being, to leaving town when I was 17 because I brilliantly ripped off the people I was selling for. (That's how I wound up in Arizona @MannyScoot )

A girl we knew suffocated by gluing a baggie to her face while huffing it for a buzz. Another guy stumbled out in front of a car blind drunk. On and on. And that was decades ago.

Here we are in 2019:
"KIDS ARE VAPING, KIDS ARE VAPING!!!! OHHHHHHH, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?!?!?!?!?"
Seriously? :giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle:

Kids do bad stupid stuff. Always have, always will. The threat to them from vaping is a joke.
 
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Amber Petti

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Let me put this another way.

I should have been dead, I don't know how many times, before my 18th birthday. Anything from being found unconscious face down with a puddle of puke frozen to my head, to waking up miles from the last place I remembered being, to leaving town because I brilliantly ripped off the people I was selling for. (That's how I wound up in Arizona @MannyScoot )

A girl we knew suffocated by gluing a baggie to her face while huffing it for a buzz. Another guy stumbled out in front of a car blind drunk. On and on. And that was decades ago.

Here we are in 2019:

Seriously? :giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle:

Kids do bad stupid stuff. Always have, always will. The threat to them of vaping is a joke.
Ahh! Yes! Now I fully understand where you’re coming from!
 

DonBaldy

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Before vaping came along were kids not smoking cigarettes? I know I was. I started by stealing them from my grandfather at the ripe old age of 11. Kids do stupid thing and always will. Some will learn from their stupidity and grow and some will prove the Darwinian theory. Hell not just kids...HUMANS do stupid stuff daily.

In my 48 year on this big blue and green ball floating out in space not once was there any more that a slight breeze about needing to find a way to end teen smoking. Shit my high school had a smoking area and not for the faculty. Not once did the "concern" ever reach the level that it is now over teens vaping. I don't condone kids vaping and yes we should try to reduce it, but then it'll be the next thing that comes along.
 

The Cromwell

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Vaping Tide Pods?
Licking toads?

Kids do stupit stuff and parents need to do their best to control how stupid the stuff is. But even the most vigilant parent cannot keep them from doing any stupit stuff.

And in their early teens their friends seem suddenly to be much smarter than their parents. An affliction they do not seem to recover from until sometime in their 20's. If then...
 

DonBaldy

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Vaping Tide Pods?
Licking toads?

Kids do stupit stuff and parents need to do their best to control how stupid the stuff is. But even the most vigilant parent cannot keep them from doing any stupit stuff.

And in their early teens their friends seem suddenly to be much smarter than their parents. An affliction they do not seem to recover from until sometime in their 20's. If then...
And this is not a new phenomenon. I'm quite sure young teen George Washington did stupid shit that had Ma and Pa Washington pulling their hair out.
 

The Cromwell

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And this is not a new phenomenon. I'm quite sure young teen George Washington did stupid shit that had Ma and Pa Washington pulling their hair out.
Yep. Grog even had trouble with his kids taunting dinosaurs.

but blaming the stuff that kids get into is not the answer.
Blame the kids and teach them not to do it as best as we can.

I am for prosecution (aka healthy fine) for underage caught with or attempting to buy. Cigs, vapes, booze, etc. Do not just prosecute the sellers.
Parents maght take a bit more active role if they have to pay a $50-100 fine for their kids bad behaviour.
 

CJ-3

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Yep. Grog even had trouble with his kids taunting dinosaurs.

but blaming the stuff that kids get into is not the answer.
Blame the kids and teach them not to do it as best as we can.

I am for prosecution (aka healthy fine) for underage caught with or attempting to buy. Cigs, vapes, booze, etc. Do not just prosecute the sellers.
Parents maght take a bit more active role if they have to pay a $50-100 fine for their kids bad behaviour.

But that means mommy and daddy have to admit junior isn't perfect.
 

Drone

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I think that the "for the kids" argument is a misdirection. Think about it, there are hundreds of examples of what adults can do that kids can't like cigarettes, alcohol, snus, chew, drive, certain drugs, bicycle without helmets, go to gentlemen's clubs, gamble, etc., etc., etc.

What is common in all the above is the response of age verification, restricted advertising in many, legal consequence for youth engaging in these activities to help curb youth and more. So there are roadblocks in place to help hinder youth participation while allowing adults the right to participate if they wish. The distinct difference of vaping is the effort to eliminate it entirely from everyone without the evidence to show it should removed from society and with actual evidence that it is a benefit to society. It's hard to believe with the years of studies that have been done now with no conclusive proof that vaping is deadly to all that this is a viable reason to ban it in it's entirely which seems the current movement is trying to do.

This is not a war against vaping "for the children", just a war being presented that way. The problem is vaping looks like smoking and that can't be tolerated... even though it's legal to smoke.
 

The Cromwell

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yep looks like smoke so must be smoke? And lots more 'smoke' than a cig so it must be worse for you right?
Quite a few vapers show up on vape boards complaining about not getting smoke out of their vapes and such.

One of my vaping pet peeves btw.
 

Jinx'd

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It has nothing to do with saving the children. NOTHING.

oh, yes it does. see, the bank accounts of those bashing vape. their bank accounts are named "children" and/or " for the children"

children, as is real people, then no, it has NOTHING to do with those. those are meaningless. they are nothing more than a conduit to the money.

now. biden, what a hypocritical PIECE OF SHIT. no offence to shit. speaking of shit, he is shitting in his pants.
 

SteveS45

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vape-meme-fda-slaps-vapers-with-new-policy-foc.width-960.jpg
 

gsmit1

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For anybody who still has any doubts about the motivations of the CDC and our benevolent politician overlords, hopefully THIS will bury them once and for all.
From the article:
"Surprisingly, there was no explicit option for desiring the rush of nicotine—the addictive head high that longtime smokers have been chasing for centuries (or, in the more appropriate vernacular of our times: getting domed.)"
This won't surprise ANYbody who's known what this was about since the beginning. They're not going to ask the one question that matters most because that would decisively yank the rug right out from under the relentless campaign of misinformation they've been perpetrating upon the voting public.

I rarely talk like this, but if you think these highly educated adult bureaucrats have never tried a cigarette and don't know that the nic rush is BAR NONE the main thing that draws people, including young people, to nicotine containing products, you're a moron.

I freely admit that myself. For me it's about 50/50 between that and the hobby.
 

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