Become a Patron!

Finally some are targeting the one person who can tell the FDA what to do.

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm not exactly sure that's how it works. The constitution gives power to the FDA. This is from a statnews article involving things other than vaping but discussing the FDA.

"Others said even if he intends to overhaul the FDA, Trump may be surprised to find there are limits to what he can do.

“You can be against regulation all you want, but the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act is not something that is malleable within executive orders,” said Dr. Sidney Wolfe, founder and senior adviser to Public Citizen’s Health Research Group, which has long battled the agency for better patient protection. “There are laws, many laws, and it took a long time to get them.”"

So I'm not really sure the government works like people think it does. Everyone just assumes POTUS can do anything and everything. Of course Trump said he was worried about the kids so it's not about questioning his stance. However even if POTUS had made a tweet saying 'dude, vaping is the kewlist shit evaahhh' he doesn't have carte blanche authority over the FDA.

Then there's this from a site called emord, "The FDA has fulfilled the founding fathers' dire prediction of what would become of an agency of the government delegated by Congress legislative power. The FDA has become tyrannical. It is a law unto itself. It is unaccountable to the Congress. It is unaccountable to the courts. It is unaccountable to the American people. It is corrupt. It is the handmaiden of the pharmaceutical industry. Its decisions have sacrificed tens of thousands of Americans lives. It has gotten away with that history of homocide. What then do we need to do to end the law violations and to return this government to its constitutional moorings?"

This is from Fordham edu at lawnet. "At a White House meeting to resolve the controversy, President Bush expressed surprise at the notion that “I’m being told that I can’t just make a decision and have it promptly executed, that the Department can’t just salute smartly and go execute whatever decision I make. Why is that?” It was in regards to a rift between the FDA and USDA.

POTUS has some power in that he can remove and replace the head of the FDA but he can't just willy nilly create or amend FDA rules and regulations. Congress gave them pretty broad scope in terms of power. Even then most things can't be achieved by executive order, even if they could because it's Trump the 9th circus gets involved and hangs it up for years even if they have no legal ground to win. POTUS also doesn't create laws, Congress does. POTUS signs off on laws but to change an existing regulation (like PMTA's) isn't just a swipe of a pen. Are we going to find a majority of Congress who thinks vaping should be simply left unregulated? Courts that would uphold an executive order if one was even attempted? This is why I say that POTUS' position on vaping has little to do with the current state of things. I'm no lawyer so there's a chance I'm wrong. It's a lot more complex though and a good amount of power struggle at the federal level than people make it out to be over who has what authority over what. Then there's other agencies like OMB who get involved, it's a real circle jerk and time suck. Think 'Vogons' from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
That's cool that vapers are gonna make Trump voters aware of the struggle vapers are going through, but Trump does not posses the power to stop the war on vaping...we have local goverments all across America that ignore federal laws all the time ...we have millions of illegal aliens being given sanctuary and resources that should go to American citizens, being given away to illegal aliens, and refusals to cooperate with ICE...we have local goverments attempting to impose illegal gun laws that violate the Consitution on it's citizens.We have local goverments who ignore drug laws....I'm afraid the war on vaping is having to fight not only the power structure, but propoganda and people's mindless faith in some goverment expert.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm not exactly sure that's how it works. The constitution gives power to the FDA. This is from a statnews article involving things other than vaping but discussing the FDA.

"Others said even if he intends to overhaul the FDA, Trump may be surprised to find there are limits to what he can do.

“You can be against regulation all you want, but the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act is not something that is malleable within executive orders,” said Dr. Sidney Wolfe, founder and senior adviser to Public Citizen’s Health Research Group, which has long battled the agency for better patient protection. “There are laws, many laws, and it took a long time to get them.”"

So I'm not really sure the government works like people think it does. Everyone just assumes POTUS can do anything and everything. Of course Trump said he was worried about the kids so it's not about questioning his stance. However even if POTUS had made a tweet saying 'dude, vaping is the kewlist shit evaahhh' he doesn't have carte blanche authority over the FDA.

Then there's this from a site called emord, "The FDA has fulfilled the founding fathers' dire prediction of what would become of an agency of the government delegated by Congress legislative power. The FDA has become tyrannical. It is a law unto itself. It is unaccountable to the Congress. It is unaccountable to the courts. It is unaccountable to the American people. It is corrupt. It is the handmaiden of the pharmaceutical industry. Its decisions have sacrificed tens of thousands of Americans lives. It has gotten away with that history of homocide. What then do we need to do to end the law violations and to return this government to its constitutional moorings?"

This is from Fordham edu at lawnet. "At a White House meeting to resolve the controversy, President Bush expressed surprise at the notion that “I’m being told that I can’t just make a decision and have it promptly executed, that the Department can’t just salute smartly and go execute whatever decision I make. Why is that?” It was in regards to a rift between the FDA and USDA.

POTUS has some power in that he can remove and replace the head of the FDA but he can't just willy nilly create or amend FDA rules and regulations. Congress gave them pretty broad scope in terms of power. Even then most things can't be achieved by executive order, even if they could because it's Trump the 9th circus gets involved and hangs it up for years even if they have no legal ground to win. POTUS also doesn't create laws, Congress does. POTUS signs off on laws but to change an existing regulation (like PMTA's) isn't just a swipe of a pen. Are we going to find a majority of Congress who thinks vaping should be simply left unregulated? Courts that would uphold an executive order if one was even attempted? This is why I say that POTUS' position on vaping has little to do with the current state of things. I'm no lawyer so there's a chance I'm wrong. It's a lot more complex though and a good amount of power struggle at the federal level than people make it out to be over who has what authority over what. Then there's other agencies like OMB who get involved, it's a real circle jerk and time suck. Think 'Vogons' from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

All true, I think ;)
Hard to say when dealing with politics.
The president is the most powerful single man in our political system. At least per the constitution anyway ;)
He/she can exert considerable influence over the various government agencies.
And the leader of his/her party, so in any case the best one to have on the side of vaping.
Note that this is about presidents in general not just the one we have right now.
 

Droogbc

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
The federal government can threaten to pull federal funding to states that don't fall in line, just like they do with the Drug Free Workplace act. If they can force just about every potential employee in the private sector to piss into a cup before getting a job they should be able to persuade states into seeing things their way, if they really want to.

The FDA is another kettle of fish, but my question is who is responsible for staffing the FDA? Perhaps if they cleaned house and replaced the prohibitionists with scientists we'd see some science backed policy like the UK instead of the absolute nonsense being pumped out to the people here in North America.
 

The Cromwell

I am a BOT
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
The federal government can threaten to pull federal funding to states that don't fall in line, just like they do with the Drug Free Workplace act. If they can force just about every potential employee in the private sector to piss into a cup before getting a job they should be able to persuade states into seeing things their way, if they really want to.

The FDA is another kettle of fish, but my question is who is responsible for staffing the FDA? Perhaps if they cleaned house and replaced the prohibitionists with scientists we'd see some science backed policy like the UK instead of the absolute nonsense being pumped out to the people here in North America.
The FDA is mostly staffed with Corporatists not Scientists.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
ADVOCATE for vaping rights and let your Voice be heard. If you make enough noise they have to listen. Threatening loss of Votes is one sure way to make them pay attention~!

13599931_643833699104332_3716598274445131718_n.jpg
 

VU Sponsors

Top