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Stainless Steel or Titanium for coils?

Number3124

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Would surgical stainless steel or titanium be better for building coils, or does anyone have experience using either for coil building? Are than any properties of the materials that make them preferable to Kanthal? Just wondering.
 

Midniteoyl

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The most common "surgical steels" are 316 stainless and 440 and 420 stainless steels. There is no formal definition on what constitutes a "surgical stainless steel", so product manufacturers apply the term to refer to any grade of corrosion resistant steel. If you're thinking 316 SS, usually Chromium and Nickel are involved ;) 316 stainless steel, also referred to as "Marine Grade Stainless Steel", is a chromium, nickel, molybdenum alloy of steel. 440 SS and 420 SS, also called "Cutlery Stainless Steel", are high carbon steels alloyed with chromium.

Titanium, however, is something being looked at.. But its resistance is fairly low, I do believe, and would take a temp controlled chip to work good. I believe there is such a chip coming out (GG? I think?)
 

Number3124

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The most common "surgical steels" are 316 stainless and 440 and 420 stainless steels. There is no formal definition on what constitutes a "surgical stainless steel", so product manufacturers apply the term to refer to any grade of corrosion resistant steel. If you're thinking 316 SS, usually Chromium and Nickel are involved ;) 316 stainless steel, also referred to as "Marine Grade Stainless Steel", is a chromium, nickel, molybdenum alloy of steel. 440 SS and 420 SS, also called "Cutlery Stainless Steel", are high carbon steels alloyed with chromium.

Titanium, however, is something being looked at.. But its resistance is fairly low, I do believe, and would take a temp controlled chip to work good. I believe there is such a chip coming out (GG? I think?)

I thought Kanthal already was 20-30% chromium anyway so should 316 be safe for vaping? As for nickel, we already use nicrome wire right?

As for the need for a temp control chip due to the low resistance of titanium, would more wraps work? Just questions from someone who is at best a novice metallurgist.
 

Midniteoyl

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Dunno to tell you the truth.. I know people complain about Ni200 wire, and NiChrome is frowned upon now...
 

Anus Braun

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NO such thing as (truly) 'Stain-less' steel...the right elements, or a combination, of elements, conditions will 'stain' anything mankind has come up with, so far...
 

MKPM

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At $7 per 100', why spend more? Kanthal is the proven metal of choice for vaping...and is bloody inexpensive.
 

UncleRJ

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And another B5 fan:D

IMHO, stick with a proven material for your coils. Why go looking for trouble?

And I would have to think that Titanium coils would be diffictult to make and really expensive as well:eek:
 

MKPM

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Having used titanium wire in chainmaille work, it is VERY springy and quite hard. I should imagine that you would have to torch it extensively to get it to hold shape.
 
Stainless wire is just a joy to work with. It's not springy and also quite soft, so the coils are easy to adjust.
In Germany, wie get the SS wire from beekeeper's supply and it costs roughly $8 for a pound of 26 AWG wire(about 1200 ft.).
A 7 wraps dual coil comes out at about 0.18 Ohms.
 

DYLAN73

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Myself, I've been really happy using Kanthal A1. Have you considered that option?
 

dingo1799

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A little birdy told me that the super expensive gplat wire that's such a hot commodity, that stores charge $25 for 5 ft is really just 316L stainless steel mig welding wire. $100 for 2500ft
 

Number3124

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A little birdy told me that the super expensive gplat wire that's such a hot commodity, that stores charge $25 for 5 ft is really just 316L stainless steel mig welding wire. $100 for 2500ft

I have heard it's just standard soddering wire.
 

dingo1799

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I have heard it's just standard soddering wire.
I'm not exactly sure what soddering wire is. Something new? I've been a mechanic for 20 years, and my dad has a TV and electronics repair shop, I've heard of "solder", matter of fact I'm pretty good at it. But I can't say I've ever heard of soddering wire. You might be onto something new bro!
 

Jackson

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Just use your leftover Genisis mesh. :)

RDA_Cotton_Braid_Candle_Wick_02.JPG
 

Number3124

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I'm not exactly sure what soddering wire is. Something new? I've been a mechanic for 20 years, and my dad has a TV and electronics repair shop, I've heard of "solder", matter of fact I'm pretty good at it. But I can't say I've ever heard of soddering wire. You might be onto something new bro!

Lol. Typos. Anyway, I don't think 316L is soldering wire (in so far as I know), but I do know that it is the preferred grade for medical implants.
 

2c5000

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And another B5 fan:D

IMHO, stick with a proven material for your coils. Why go looking for trouble?

And I would have to think that Titanium coils would be diffictult to make and really expensive as well:eek:

ive been reading a lot on this subject and from what i gather Ti is the safest wire available right now. and you can get surgical grade1 Ti in 50' (about $10) and 200' (about $30). working with it is just like kanthal. yes its expensive compared to kanthal, but safer and not that pricey. esp if it is the safest. now im not certain how much we know about all this for our use, but i am reading that ANY of the wire options are dangerous if you get them red hot. that it produces oxidation of which is poisonous. which means all those out there who dry burn their coils are poisoning themselves...? anyway i have been curious about using Ti for coils and will likely be trying it soon.

i was going to start a new thread about wire and its possible dangers, but then i saw this thread. figured it would be a good place to put it. thoughts?

and my apologies if there is already a thread covering this subject. i did search a bit before posting.
 

2c5000

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ive been reading a lot on this subject and from what i gather Ti is the safest wire available right now. and you can get surgical grade1 Ti in 50' (about $10) and 200' (about $30). working with it is just like kanthal. yes its expensive compared to kanthal, but safer and not that pricey. esp if it is the safest. now im not certain how much we know about all this for our use, but i am reading that ANY of the wire options are dangerous if you get them red hot. that it produces oxidation of which is poisonous. which means all those out there who dry burn their coils are poisoning themselves...? anyway i have been curious about using Ti for coils and will likely be trying it soon.

i was going to start a new thread about wire and its possible dangers, but then i saw this thread. figured it would be a good place to put it. thoughts?

and my apologies if there is already a thread covering this subject. i did search a bit before posting.

any thoughts?
 
Just to weigh in on this as I was looking into it earlier, there's a shop that tested this out and went as far as buying a LOT of titanium wire.

But after tests refused to sell it, they said hot spots and pulsing it actually caught fire and they were getting oxidation at normally operating temperature - and we all know that Ti oxide is carcinogenic.

More info on the link Below:

http://www.stealthvape.co.uk/titanium_wires_for_vaping

Draw your own conclusions but it's a definite no no for me. I'm still looking into stainless though as that may be worth a try.
 

mcginnis314

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Seems like Stainless Steel is pretty safe. Anyone have any new information for the subject?
 

attackonthebass

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the Crown tanks have been using SUS316 food grade stainless steel in their coils I believe since they've been released. I've read nothing but good things about their tanks. I thought I read somewhere that they were using surgical stainless steel, but i just went to Uwell's site to see what they had on their specs & it says food grade stainless.

I'm curious myself, I'm still a little worried about vapin nickle. I like the idea of temp control, but after reading some articles about the nickle leeching into the juice I've been a little skeptical.
 

IML8

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Look up the inhalation exposure limits on stainless steel, you may be surprised.

So I did and it looks like anything less than 5 milligrams per cubic meter of air is not considered hazardous. If you completely vaporize and inhale an entire coil over the course of about 800 lung hits, you might have something to be concerned about. Everything I've been able to find indicates that stainless steel is at least as safe as any other wire you might use for coils, if not definitively safer.

People are swearing by SS workability, durability and clean taste. From what I can gather, it's not all that great on energy efficiency though. I have extra batteries and chargers; I'm not too worried about it. I just ordered a 925 ft. roll of 24 ga. 304 SS wire for about $20 yesterday and I'm eager to try it (wicked with Rayon!). If I like it, I'll have enough to last a while and PIF a little bit.

Running a little behind, but better late than never, eh?
 

2c5000

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So I did and it looks like anything less than 5 milligrams per cubic meter of air is not considered hazardous. If you completely vaporize and inhale an entire coil over the course of about 800 lung hits, you might have something to be concerned about. Everything I've been able to find indicates that stainless steel is at least as safe as any other wire you might use for coils, if not definitively safer.

People are swearing by SS workability, durability and clean taste. From what I can gather, it's not all that great on energy efficiency though. I have extra batteries and chargers; I'm not too worried about it. I just ordered a 925 ft. roll of 24 ga. 304 SS wire for about $20 yesterday and I'm eager to try it (wicked with Rayon!). If I like it, I'll have enough to last a while and PIF a little bit.

Running a little behind, but better late than never, eh?

can you link to where you ordered all that wire? im also interested in trying SS. im currently running Ti in TC mode. my VTC does not have a SS mode... is there a way to run SS in Ni or Ti mode? similar to how some use Ti wire on a TC mod only set up for nickel...?
 

IML8

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can you link to where you ordered all that wire? im also interested in trying SS. im currently running Ti in TC mode. my VTC does not have a SS mode... is there a way to run SS in Ni or Ti mode? similar to how some use Ti wire on a TC mod only set up for nickel...?
Sure, here ya go: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/31980105

I haven't started experimenting yet, but they say you can run it in power mode if your mod will fire that low of ohms. 7 wraps will run about .3 ohms. I've also heard you can run it in Ti mode at about 100 degrees F. lower than you normally would with a Ti coil and get good results.
 
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f1r3b1rd

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Here's what I've tried and my opinion

Kanthal- the standard
Nichrome- slightly funny taste at first, but burns off quickly
Nickel- pain the ass to build with and after a while I get a funny taste-debate of safe/unsafe bugs me so I stay away
TI- tastes like dogs ASS- the debate of safe/unsafe bugs me so I stay away
SS(317,316)- appears to behave like Kanthal as far as working with it goes (coil building I just pulse rather than dry burn), has been used for a while in non TC applications, but it performs wonderfully in tc mode for compatible mods.

Safety wise, I am not a dr, or metallurgist, but I've not read or heard anything from a reputable source telling me the evils of SS...yet. I'm sure that's a matter of time or a trip to ecf. TI and Ni200 we've all heard the blah blah vomit stuff, so I wont bother with them.


Edit::: the taste issues are my experience ive read of others having similar and still others say I'm nuts (arguably I am not normal)
 
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f1r3b1rd

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Will all mod's run stainless? Sorry if this is a noob question.
Yes, so long as your build falls within its range, I keep everything except for 1 atty in ss now and swap between mods,
 

IML8

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For whatever it's worth, I would just add that the only difference between 316 and 304, besides the price, as far as I can tell, is slight variations in the percentages of chromium and nickel content and 304 doesn't contain any molybdenum (added to 316 to help corrosion resistance from salts).
 

2c5000

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Here's what I've tried and my opinion

Kanthal- the standard
Nichrome- slightly funny taste at first, but burns off quickly
Nickel- pain the ass to build with and after a while I get a funny taste-debate of safe/unsafe bugs me so I stay away
TI- tastes like dogs ASS- the debate of safe/unsafe bugs me so I stay away
SS(317,316)- appears to behave like Kanthal as far as working with it goes (coil building I just pulse rather than dry burn), has been used for a while in non TC applications, but it performs wonderfully in tc mode for compatible mods.

Safety wise, I am not a dr, or metallurgist, but I've not read or heard anything from a reputable source telling me the evils of SS...yet. I'm sure that's a matter of time or a trip to ecf. TI and Ni200 we've all heard the blah blah vomit stuff, so I wont bother with them.


Edit::: the taste issues are my experience ive read of others having similar and still others say I'm nuts (arguably I am not normal)

i find Ti tastes better than both nickel and kanthal. and sure there are worries of nickel and Ti, but there also is for kanthal and ANY other wire really. we just dont know. i am more comfortable using Ti over kanthal in that it is one of, if not the most, inert materials known to man. kanthal is not as inert as Ti. and its not used in the medical industry for all kinds of shit like Ti is. my money is on Ti being a more safe option over kanthal.

what i am curious about is if using kanthal with Ti will reduce the TC functionality of my device when in TC mode...? or i suppose the better question is if i run this mixed coil with the same settings as i would with Ti only...?
 

kevinmyfsu

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Anyone else tried making SS coils for TC? I just did, got a .15 ohm dual build. Unfortunately, when I go to vape in TC, it puts out vapor for like 2 secs then hits its temp limit and you have to wait for it to cool down and then try to vape again. I'm using and XCube and unless my settings are somehow wonky, this is not a very enjoyable experience.
 

IML8

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Anyone else tried making SS coils for TC? I just did, got a .15 ohm dual build. Unfortunately, when I go to vape in TC, it puts out vapor for like 2 secs then hits its temp limit and you have to wait for it to cool down and then try to vape again. I'm using and XCube and unless my settings are somehow wonky, this is not a very enjoyable experience.
Haven't tried it yet, myself, but I would be interested in what settings you're using. I think you need a mod with Titanium mode and then you need to have it set to about 100 degrees F. lower than you would normally set for a Titanium coil. I'm not positive about that - I've read so many different things from so many different people about it in the last few days. My plan is to use it in power mode until I get a TC device specifically with a SS mode or a SS mode update becomes available for my IPV4 or Evic VT. Well, I take that back. I'll probably play around with the TC settings on those with SS, but my expectations are low. I'm pinning my hopes on Smok not screwing up the Treebox Mini I pre-ordered.
 

kevinmyfsu

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The Xcube has a specific setting for SS, and I just needed to upgrade my firmware. Working like a charm now. I'm pretty much converted from titanium.
 

IML8

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Well, I got my 925 ft. spool of 24 ga. SS.

8 spaced wraps on my Morph Tank RBA deck turned out a .4 ohm coil. It was easy to work with and is producing a nice clean, flavorful, warm vape at 30 watts. I'm still in the exploration phase, but so far, so good.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Well, I got my 925 ft. spool of 24 ga. SS.

8 spaced wraps on my Morph Tank RBA deck turned out a .4 ohm coil. It was easy to work with and is producing a nice clean, flavorful, warm vape at 30 watts. I'm still in the exploration phase, but so far, so good.
Awesomeness dude! you know, with ss you don't need spaced coils, they work just fine as contact coils
Petri RDA with dual 24g ss: 9 wraps with inside diameter of 2.5mm. Rt=0.19 ohms
Vaping at 50w and 480°: 2sec preheat of 80w on 8.5 intensity
temporary_zpskkkssgng.jpg
 
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IML8

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Awesomeness dude! you know, with ss you don't need spaced coils, they work just fine as contact coils
Ahhh yes, but my rayon wick prefers it for best results.
 

2c5000

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anyone order from unkamen supplies?

i have a roll, but when i clean it i cannot get it to a silver metal color. this stuff is sorta orange/red... anyone else?

when i clean spidersilk it comes out silver.

this makes me not want to use the unkamen stuff.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I ordered some 24g ti from them a while back and its silver in color, rough in texture and used as fence wire now. :)
 

IML8

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Okay, I've been getting used to using this 24g SS for a couple days and there was a small learning curve. I burnt up the first wick within a couple hours. Doesn't seem like it's conducive to chain vaping like I tend to do when I'm trying something new. I had to compromise my style and turn down the watts a couple notches. The second wick is fine. I just had to pay closer attention until I got the hang of it. I can see where this SS could benefit from a TC device with a SS mode though. I tried using the Ti settings on my Evic and that didn't really pan out as I'd hoped. Maybe a smaller ga. wire would work better for that. *shrugs* The taste is clean and good. Dry burning between wicks was fine. I can easily imagine this coil lasting a very long time. Time will tell, eh?

I got a small roll of Ti from Unkamen, but I threw it in the cabinet and haven't tried it yet. I'm afraid I might find out what ass tastes like and I don't want to know.
 

f1r3b1rd

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It seems ti burn hotter than Kanthal... I get the same vale with 50w ss as I do with the same build at 60w with Kanthal
 

kevinmyfsu

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Okay, I've been getting used to using this 24g SS for a couple days and there was a small learning curve. I burnt up the first wick within a couple hours. Doesn't seem like it's conducive to chain vaping like I tend to do when I'm trying something new. I had to compromise my style and turn down the watts a couple notches. The second wick is fine. I just had to pay closer attention until I got the hang of it. I can see where this SS could benefit from a TC device with a SS mode though. I tried using the Ti settings on my Evic and that didn't really pan out as I'd hoped. Maybe a smaller ga. wire would work better for that. *shrugs* The taste is clean and good. Dry burning between wicks was fine. I can easily imagine this coil lasting a very long time. Time will tell, eh?

I got a small roll of Ti from Unkamen, but I threw it in the cabinet and haven't tried it yet. I'm afraid I might find out what ass tastes like and I don't want to know.

Just curious, can you set the temp coefficient by an chance? Or fiddle with it on your device in any way? If so I normally put mine between .00100-.00115. Works great for 316L. I too have had great experiences with it so far. I have some 24g and 26g. It is weird at first getting into your head how the resistance works, but now it's second nature for me. Unfortunately it's not so great (in my experience so far) for fancy builds and even twisted builds just aren't practical, or I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. I tried a twisted 26g build but trying to get the resistance right for a single twisted coil build on a kayfun deck, to .15 (that's where I enjoy vaping it so far but I honestly don't know enough about TC to know what the real difference is between a .08 and .15) was almost impossible. It ended up being a bust. But then again it may be that I'm using 2x26g. Maybe I should've tried 26/24. In my experience 24/24 is usually too fat to fit in the post holes.
 

IML8

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Just curious, can you set the temp coefficient by any chance? Or fiddle with it on your device in any way? If so I normally put mine between .00100-.00115.

That would be cool. I didn't know any of the TC devices allowed you to do that. I don't have anything snazzy; only the IPV4 and the eVic VT. If they have that function, I haven't discovered it yet.
 

f1r3b1rd

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There are a few coming that let you program in your own tcr within a given variable.
With TC though, one of the important factors is the connection between the coil and the board. -that makes the kf4 amd squape 2 of the hardest atomizers to get a good TC build on.
The spring on the kf4 and ematel on the deck of the squape add to the difficulty.
Also with ni200, single coil is much easier to use than dual coil.
The erlkoengin and the lemo were 2 of my best tanks with TC,
 

IML8

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The Goliath is the only tank I have that is conducive to a dual coil build and the deck is so tiny I stick with kanthal builds on it. Other than that, I haven't had any issues with nickel builds except for them being a pain in the ass to wick without wrecking an otherwise beautiful coil. It can be particularly challenging when wicking with rayon because rayon needs to be quite a bit tighter inside the coil than cotton does. In the end, I think it's been worth the trouble though. Stainless steel has the potential to change all that.

It took a me little while to get the hang of vaping with stainless, but I'm probably just too slow at adapting to change. Now that I've adjusted, I think it's great. Funny that using TC devices seem to have made me more sensitive to slight changes in temperature and flavor rather than the other way around like one would expect.
 

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