Sony VTC4 (and 5) are the only 30A 2000+mah Bats recommended?

avibp · Feb 20, 2015

Sony VTC4 (and 5) are the only 30A 2000+mah Bats recommended?

I've seen posters mostly talking about LG, Samsung, Efest and AW. (Anything-)Fire bats are for the shooting range and not good even for flashlights ya-da ya-da. ::Thumbs-up::

Summary:
Efest and AW are re-wraps or mislabeled 20a batts and LG and Samsung are legit 20-25A bats.

My rotation library of 18650 bats are 4 pair of VTC5 and 1 VTC4 pair and I am almost needing to do some re-wrapping due to loosening jackets so I am thinking ahead and can't find anything better, near or close/kinda-like the elusive VTC5/4.

I build down to .14 ohms and sometimes stack batts in mechs with higher Ohms of course in the atty so, if I wanna play, I want to be as safe as possible. If I can't find a VTC5/4, want a 30A 2000+mah bat (highest amp and mah), what do I buy?

Kellogs - 'nuttin-honey' ?

Slap some sense into me because this -void- can't be real/true !

Slicknic · Feb 20, 2015

http://www.illumn.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=pvc+wrap
http://www.illumn.com/batteries-cha...8650vtc4-2100mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html

If I build near .2 or under with mechanical, vtc's are the only battery I'll use.

avibp · Feb 20, 2015

@ Slicknic, VTC only for me too. I (delusional) was hoping for a choice.
Great links for the PVC wrap and NICE price on the VTC4 too. Its appreciated. Thanks

The VTC link also states very appropriately "the next recommended battery is the Samsung 25R" @20A

Jackson · Feb 21, 2015

If you'll note, the latest/revised datasheet for the VTC5 has dropped all references to 30A.

http://www.intaste.de/community/dtf/technical_information.pdf

Trouble in paradise? Someone inferred that there was was a problem when they were submitted to UL for testing.

avibp · Feb 21, 2015

"Dropped all references to 30A" - hmm, curious-er and curious-er. Nothing conclusive though. Testing out of parameters for the industrial-implied-use maybe 'cost prohibitive/unnecessary costs" (? just 1 thought). Please note that we are not privy to the extreme ranges where they actually fail so, what else is missing?

"A problem" - in UL? Although (probable) possible, that is really close to mind bending to me. Maybe the problem was that they sent the wrong batch of batteries in and sent the ones to be released in December 2019 instead.

I wouldn't be too dis-pleased if a submission/testing problem were truly the case as long as it was disclosed. My conclusion Would/Could be to the effect, "I've been using 20A Li-MN batts with .14ohms at up to 10 second bursts and experienced no catastrophic failures or product malfunctions" as well as thinking that some of my calculations have to be re-evaluated. For me to think this way and act would be silly and potentially dangerous until I get solid facts to substantiate or dismiss.

Jackson said:
...dropped all references to 30A....
-
...inferred that there was was a problem...

Interesting food for thought ::Thumbs up::

battery bro · Feb 22, 2015

VTC5 is 20A. VTC4, VTC3, VTC2 are 30A. There are also some LG cells which are 30A like the ICR18650HB2.

Lighty269 · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
VTC5 is 20A. VTC4, VTC3, VTC2 are 30A. There are also some LG cells which are 30A like the ICR18650HB2.

Anywhere to find those that are legit?

Jon@LiionWholesale · Feb 22, 2015

Lighty269 said:
Anywhere to find those that are legit?

We carry VTC3 and VTC4. VTC5's on the market right now are not legit. That LG is kind of an interesting one, not sure if it has any advantage over a VTC3 since the specs look similar, we don't have that one.

battery bro · Feb 22, 2015

Lighty269 said:
Anywhere to find those that are legit?

Pic taken one month ago.

Yeah Sony still sells 18650s. I don't want to give too much away, but the cells are made somewhere high-tech - but not in Japan. Anyway, the way the chain is set up, boxes get mixed with various graded cells or with counterfeits quite early on. That's why most Chinese suppliers have some kind of protection policy on fake Sony batteries as it's so hard to verify authenticity, consistently.

deconstruct2_f5b3b71a-863d-459e-ad89-5264a2fae341_1024x1024.jpg

The only way to do that, which is what we do is to take a random statistically significant sampling from each shipment as part of our quality control. We tried this with Sony but ended up with too many low-grade cells and lost money. Their official statement is that many of their popular cells are no longer produced.

The bottom-line, yes there's production, but there are also a very high % of counterfeits which slip through.

Lighty269 · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
Pic taken one month ago.

Yeah Sony still sells 18650s. I don't want to give too much away, but the cells are made somewhere high-tech - but not in Japan. Anyway, the way the chain is set up, boxes get mixed with various graded cells or with counterfeits quite early on. That's why most Chinese suppliers have some kind of protection policy on fake Sony batteries as it's so hard to verify authenticity, consistently.

The only way to do that, which is what we do is to take a random statistically significant sampling from each shipment as part of our quality control. We tried this with Sony but ended up with too many low-grade cells and lost money. Their official statement is that many of their popular cells are no longer produced.

The bottom-line, yes there's production, but there are also a very high % of counterfeits which slip through.

You did not mention where?

battery bro · Feb 22, 2015

Lighty269 said:
You did not mention where?

Would breach a privacy agreement, legal stuff, sorry.

Jon@LiionWholesale · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
The only way to do that, which is what we do is to take a random statistically significant sampling from each shipment as part of our quality control. We tried this with Sony but ended up with too many low-grade cells and lost money.

This is what we do. We make very almost no money on the Sony's compared to the others since all the other sellers on the market are not doing this testing and we have to compete with them on price but at this time we're still selling them.

Lighty269 · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
Would breach a privacy agreement, legal stuff, sorry.

Fine, I will spend my money with lionwholesale

battery bro · Feb 22, 2015

Haha no problem I did not realize this was a sales thing. I'm not here to compete, I'm relaxing and talking about batts which is my hobby.

Lighty269 · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
Haha no problem I did not realize this was a sales thing. I'm not here to compete, I'm relaxing and talking about batts which is my hobby.

I was asking where to buy in my original question.

Jon@LiionWholesale · Feb 22, 2015

Lighty269 said:
Fine, I will spend my money with lionwholesale

Thanks, but I think he misunderstood your question and thought you were asking where they were made.

battery bro · Feb 22, 2015

Anywhere to find those that are legit?

I thought you meant like... anywhere in the world.

avibp · Feb 22, 2015

battery bro said:
VTC5 is 20A. VTC4, VTC3, VTC2 are 30A. There are also some LG cells which are 30A like the ICR18650HB2.

Sounds truthful, authoritative and simple. How refreshing.
Thank you ~~Jesus~~ Battery Bro and also for that very convenient battery chart you linked to .

battery bro said:
...privacy agreement, legal stuff...

Privacy / pirate-cy
Legal / schme-GULL !
~~Dude~~ Bro - I wanna know where they're made and where to get'em too !
And WWJD ? Share obviously!
Out with-it - CONFESS

Jon@LiionWholesale said:
...This is what we do...

Testing results keeps my blood pressure down (and no murderous rampages ending with mayhem, death and/or jail-time for me). Its hard to handle all the LOW-CLASS, lyin' cheatin', mo-fo's out there and their goin' ons and doin's.
Thanks LiionWholesale (wholesale to the public) ::Thumbs-up::
Thanks batteryBro (wholesale to the wholesaler) ::Thumbs-up::

I ask you VJ battery aficionados some questions.

Assuming you're an 'experienced/advanced' vaper and money is not an issue/concern:
"What 18650 that is on the market today would your first choice be to Cloud Chase -OTHER- than Sony VTC" ?

--- Second Scenario ---

Your going to be out -All Day- and maybe all night with your favorite peeps of course, free to vape everywhere you go, however no chargers and no extra batteries are around/allowed.
"What 18650(ies) is/are in your mod and did you put it (them) in a regulated or mech" ?
(although I would never be in this scenario, you can't answer that way

I'd need 24-18650's stacked in series, packed into a regulated PV and a slave to carry it - none of these factors exist in my realm of control)

Would you rather have 26650 batts instead? If so, other than Sony and MNKE, which one?

Embellishments welcome.

Sparks · Mar 3, 2015

Thought I'd ask around if anyone is familiar with this company, I emailed them and there reply seems truthful but I'm not all to quick anymore with just giving it a try before asking around first,
http://infinitevapor.com/sony-18650-vtc5-2600mah/
Said they bought the last 90 from Efest seems like their truthful but I can't still help but wonder and not really up to taking a chance.

battery bro · Mar 4, 2015

Sparks said:
Thought I'd ask around if anyone is familiar with this company, I emailed them and there reply seems truthful but I'm not all to quick anymore with just giving it a try before asking around first,
http://infinitevapor.com/sony-18650-vtc5-2600mah/
Said they bought the last 90 from Efest seems like their truthful but I can't still help but wonder and not really up to taking a chance.

If you trust Efe**, you will be disappointed. "Last 90" is a sales strat and almost certainly was not the case. Infinite Vapor might be very trustworthy, I have no idea. But everyone who trusts Efe** is getting screwed at one point or another

Mike H. · Mar 4, 2015

Did i read someone saying the sony vtc5 is 20 amps and not 30?
O.0

Mike H. · Mar 4, 2015

battery bro said:
VTC5 is 20A. VTC4, VTC3, VTC2 are 30A. There are also some LG cells which are 30A like the ICR18650HB2.

Proof of this?...unless you mean the clones being sold are only 20amp?

battery bro · Mar 4, 2015

Mike H. said:
Proof of this?...unless you mean the clones being sold are only 20amp?

The VTC5 was never 30 amps - again is suppliers just marketing stuff not knowing what they are talking about. You can check out best 18650 battery and download the spec sheet. Basically, the VTC5 is comparable to the 25R or the LGHE2 - they are all in the same league. You can get 30A but at 2000mAh not 2500mAh - and keep in mind this was 2013... Sony had access to exactly the same battery science as LG and Samsung.

Mike H. · Mar 4, 2015

Makes one kindof worry so many recommend a vtc5 (if you can find an authentic) for extreme sub ohm use.

I was always proud to say i had "Authentic" VTC5's thinking i have all i need to take it to the extreme should i chose to at some point with the best battery out there...*sits in corner and pouts.

Guess ill be hunting down authentic vtc 4's now.

avibp · Mar 4, 2015

Sparks said:
...I'm not all to quick anymore with just giving it a try before asking around first...,
http://infinitevapor.com/sony-18650-vtc5-2600mah/...

Pardon my abrasiveness please. I must ask you to reconsider the VTC5 as choice of battery due to -->

battery bro said:
The VTC5 was never 30 amps - again is suppliers just marketing stuff not knowing ... check out best 18650 battery ...the spec sheet. Basically, the VTC5 is comparable to the 25R or the LGHE2 - they are all in the same league. You can get 30A but at 2000mAh not 2500mAh...

Due to the VTC5 being a 20A batt, my choice of HIGH mah - and - HIGH amp will be the VTC4 as I know of no other in its class however, if I choose to step away from lower OHM builds in my atomizers; not needing the highest "continuous" amperage for safety, I will be choosing the Samsung INR18650-25R 2500mAH <-- which is currently out of stock at this link or the LG HE2 18650 2500mAh.

Using information available at http://www.best18650battery.com/ I sorted a spreadsheet to get two views of batteries including only >=2000mah and >=20A (continuous) listings...

... Highest Continuous (A) Discharge rating then secondarily, the highest mAh

...Then the highest mAh rating followed by secondarily, the Highest Continuous (A) Discharge

This (the above) is my opinion only. This is the "beliefs" that I have and definitely "not facts" that I know. I depend on others advice. My position (right or wrong) is what I've tried to glean from others apparent knowledge that they have been kind enough to share. Please don't hesitate to tell me I'm wrong.

Haadkoe · Mar 4, 2015

Jackson said:
If you'll note, the latest/revised datasheet for the VTC5 has dropped all references to 30A.

http://www.intaste.de/community/dtf/technical_information.pdf

Trouble in paradise? Someone inferred that there was was a problem when they were submitted to UL for testing.

Speculating here, but I'm sure they're aware that their batteries are the most recommended cells for sub and super sub ohm mod builds. It is possible that they could be acting proactively, intentionally underrating their batteries to avoid any liability in the event a battery were to vent causing injury or property damage from being pushed at or near what we would consider to be the safe limits.

I figure if it's a 30amp continuous cell in reality, but they label it as a 20amp continuous cell, then there is almost no risk if vapers build within the stated 20amp continuious limitations. Intentionally giving us (and themselves) a relative ton of headroom.

Overall sales probably wouldn't suffer much if at all, since they were making and selling batteries long before we started using them for vaping purposes, and if it saves them from having to deal with one or more multimillion dollar lawsuits, then all the better for them.

Come to think of it, that may be why we seem to be having such a difficult time finding them to buy. I'm sure they can make them by the thousands if they wanted to, but they're afraid that eventually one of us is going to get hurt using them, so they pulled them until they could figure out how to best approach the situation.

Wild guess though, lol.

kingworm · Mar 4, 2015

Haadkoe said:
Speculating here, but I'm sure they're aware that their batteries are the most recommended cells for sub and super sub ohm mod builds. It is possible that they could be acting proactively, intentionally underrating their batteries to avoid any liability in the event a battery were to vent causing injury or property damage from being pushed at or near what we would consider to be the safe limits.

I figure if it's a 30amp continuous cell in reality, but they label it as a 20amp continuous cell, then there is almost no risk if vapers build within the stated 20amp continuious limitations. Intentionally giving us (and themselves) a relative ton of headroom.

Overall sales probably wouldn't suffer much if at all, since they were making and selling batteries long before we started using them for vaping purposes, and if it saves them from having to deal with one or more multimillion dollar lawsuits, then all the better for them.

Come to think of it, that may be why we seem to be having such a difficult time finding them to buy. I'm sure they can make them by the thousands if they wanted to, but they're afraid that eventually one of us is going to get hurt using them, so they pulled them until they could figure out how to best approach the situation.

Wild guess though, lol.

well im not 100% on this but i believe they have no liability because vaping is not the intended use for this type of battery. so by vaping with it we are all likely unable to hold sony liable for any
injuries.

avibp · Mar 4, 2015

Haadkoe said:
Speculating here...Wild guess though, lol.

Love it - I don't believe it but, hmmm, mmmaybeee

kingworm said:
...we are all likely unable to hold sony liable for any injuries.

I agree that we wouldn't be able to hold them liable in court however, a losing lawsuit will still cost lawyers fees thus, that idiot just created a financial liability for blowing up his own face.
Now don't say that the vaping community doesn't have any idiots that would do either of those things. Unfortunately, we know better.

kingworm · Mar 4, 2015

avibp said:
Love it - I don't believe it but, hmmm, mmmaybeee

I agree that we wouldn't be able to hold them liable in court however, a losing lawsuit will still cost lawyers fees thus, that idiot just created a financial liability for blowing up his own face.
Now don't say that the vaping community doesn't have any idiots that would do either of those things. Unfortunately, we know better.

and you know sony has some expensive lawyers that said idiot would pay for

avibp · Mar 4, 2015

Oh yeah, we all pay for the idiots one way or the other. I've never figured out how or why the universe or karma balances that out either. (shrug)

Kkay · Mar 4, 2015

So the LG HE2 is better than the HE4? I recently bought some batteries. I am trying out different ones. I ordered a VTC4, a LG HE4, and 3 Samsung 25R batteries. They sent me a HE2 instead of an HE4. They are about the same price wise.

avibp · Mar 4, 2015

Kkay said:
So the LG HE2 is better than the HE4?...

Better? Don't know why you ask/say that. I can only see that the HE2 is 1g heavier. My hands can't measure that little.

I have heard someone/somewhere say that the HE4 is the same as the HE2 but just RE-released. If that was the case, there wouldn't be 1g weight difference. Someone better (mentally) equipped hopefully will come along.

Kkay · Mar 4, 2015

Previous comments seemed to say that the HE2 were better than HE4. I was just trying to determine for sure, if that was the case, or not.

But another seemed to say the HE4 was possibly better. I want to know whether to send this battery back, or just keep it. The HE2 they sent has a button top, and it is a little longer. That means it probably won't fit my SVD2.

Sony VTC4 (and 5) are the only 30A 2000+mah Bats recommended?

avibp

Slicknic

avibp

Jackson

avibp

battery bro

Lighty269

Guest

Jon@LiionWholesale

battery bro

Lighty269

Guest

battery bro

Jon@LiionWholesale

Lighty269

Guest

battery bro

Lighty269

Guest

Jon@LiionWholesale

battery bro

avibp

Sparks

battery bro

Mike H.

Mike H.

battery bro

Mike H.

avibp

Haadkoe

kingworm

avibp

kingworm

avibp

Kkay

avibp

Kkay

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