Pauly Walnuts
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BLAST!!!!! great response!!
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WTF is up with these rogue cops??
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Pauly Walnuts
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Im dont think your getting the point. Only a very tiny percentage of people ever riot.
Also, force is either excessive or it isnt. There is no 'smidge'. If peoples lives or safety are in danger or perceived to be in danger, then force is necessary.
If not, then its not.
Brother I get your point. Personally I agree with you and I believe everyone should be held accountable for their actions regardless of what caused or your past record of moral soundness. Sure there is excessive or not however most people will tell a cop "I wasnt really speeding I was only going 50 in a 45." Cops acting badly is all the media will talk about because it draws in more views then the cop that stopped an armed robbery in gamestop after duty. He went in to pick his son up the new Legos game when two fine members of our society ran in with guns. He wounded both and took several bullets when he stepped in front of a mom and her kids. He then subbdued them and stayed alive until backup arrived. Yet this story wont be blasted on the CNN/Fox news sadly. Bad cops are like the cooks at Mickey Ds that spit in your food which is very few.
Hey...I just read an article, about 3 people who robbed and killed a motorcycle taxi driver in Guatemala....apparently one of the thieves/murderers who was a teenage girl ran away but got caught by the local crowd.....they beat and kicked her and then set her on fire.....I bet she wishes she had got arressted by some crazy racist undereducated american cop instead of the people.
I think this has been touched on before , but when an elected states attorney stands up and says "our time is now". It does two things , one it fans the flames ,and two it is plain wrong .
Her goal and job is justice for all, " all the time" ! Is the goal justice ,revenge ,a couple points in a poll . That attitude divides people . Sure you got bad cops , you have to deal with ,that does not make the rest of them a punching bag . It is sad and very telling that she got elected in the first place . I once saw an old brown piece of paper that had faded ink ,it was hard to read
it started with "we the people" it did not say young ,old ,fat skinny ,this group or that group,us or them . . It did not say sometimes or our time . It meant we ,all the time . We elect the folks in charge , they should start doing their jobs , and it's not pointing the finger to divide . All have to be responsible, in a uniform ,shirt and tie or in a pair of jeans . I don't care what job someone has ,you do it all the time , not sometimes ,or only when it looks good . ok, off the soap box .
Her goal and job is justice for all, " all the time" ! Is the goal justice ,revenge ,a couple points in a poll . That attitude divides people . Sure you got bad cops , you have to deal with ,that does not make the rest of them a punching bag . It is sad and very telling that she got elected in the first place . I once saw an old brown piece of paper that had faded ink ,it was hard to read
it started with "we the people" it did not say young ,old ,fat skinny ,this group or that group,us or them . . It did not say sometimes or our time . It meant we ,all the time . We elect the folks in charge , they should start doing their jobs , and it's not pointing the finger to divide . All have to be responsible, in a uniform ,shirt and tie or in a pair of jeans . I don't care what job someone has ,you do it all the time , not sometimes ,or only when it looks good . ok, off the soap box .
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You know she got a call from the whitehouse and the injustice department to say this..they most likely wrote her speech for her.
Haha good point. Americans live in a bubble and are oblivious to the outside world. Mouthing to a cop in another country has painful results which is why foreigners don't. You'd figure after seeing a video of someone getting manhandled by a cop that the mouthing off and acting like Johnny Cochrane while pulled over would stop but it continues.
I agree with this for the most part.
That's why I believe it's the training and police tactics that is the problem. It's not a racial problem. The tactics are the same here where there are few minorities. Police have to have been trained, or their peers have taught them, to make up reasons to stop people that they have profiled. They either outright lie, I've had that happen many times, or their excuse is petty. I've even been pulled over and no reason given. Drivers are not all stupid. They know when they have been pulled over on false pretense. They know when a cop is being a dick because he only has one goal, to find something to charge you with so he can get a raise.
@raqball seems like a good guy. Probably a decent cop. I don't know. But he refuses to see that these tactics, though they may catch a bad guy or two, also create victims. People that have committed no crime don't like being treated as if they had. And they certainly don't like being treated as if they are some kind of second class citizen. It matters not one wit if they get to go home, or to work or where ever and what ever they where doing. They resent being treated like shit. That's why people hate cops.
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I haven't read the entire thread ... well much of it at all.
Starting to think its a local issue though more so than a national
I live in new Orleans and have a place near the each in small town in Mississippi.
At home in nola, people are always yelling at the cops and treating them like shit. Just the other day I was at a coffee shop and a lady was just in the parking lot asking a cop directions, he obliged, and she looks at him and just says "fuck you, ASSHOLE." im sure this is an isolated event, and people will call it like they see I; BUT, similar things happen here all the time.
The way I see it COPs are people and will react as people.
Starting to think its a local issue though more so than a national
I live in new Orleans and have a place near the each in small town in Mississippi.
At home in nola, people are always yelling at the cops and treating them like shit. Just the other day I was at a coffee shop and a lady was just in the parking lot asking a cop directions, he obliged, and she looks at him and just says "fuck you, ASSHOLE." im sure this is an isolated event, and people will call it like they see I; BUT, similar things happen here all the time.
The way I see it COPs are people and will react as people.
the huge vast majority of people do not hate cops.we all have a little fear of them,but not of cops,but of law.....the political class has been so busy making us all criminals by passing a library full of laws,and regulations we all are afraid we have broken some law.Like whar happened in NY..it wasn't the cops who made the decsion to start hasseling people who sold cigarettes on the street corner..it was Mayor De Blasio sending down an order to terrorize the citiznes into obeying a law he personally supported...NY has tons of illegal aliens,but Mayor Be Blasio tells the cops tp leave them alone, that is because of his personal beliefs and the the profits of the people who fund his political carrier.What happened can be laid at the feet of De Blasio as were the two cops who were assassinated.and not at the feet of cops or their training.
I remember when I lived in S.F. back in the 80s and 90s there was a park in Chinatown called portsmouth square very public park...Chinese men usually older guys would sit in the park and gamble with money in their hands....the cops never touched them,because the chines community had the political pull to tell the city to leave them alone....any other neighborhood in the city and they would have been arrested.
I remember when I lived in S.F. back in the 80s and 90s there was a park in Chinatown called portsmouth square very public park...Chinese men usually older guys would sit in the park and gamble with money in their hands....the cops never touched them,because the chines community had the political pull to tell the city to leave them alone....any other neighborhood in the city and they would have been arrested.
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yeah I don't agree at all..anybody can stand up and postulate anything they want and have a disussion ...it in no way proves the validity of their thought. for instance the raging debate the Cathoilic Church had over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin....I think there are bad experinces by with cops,but I'd say it's pretty isolated.
The media attention is relatively new. There are hundreds of stories and video from around the country that never made CNN or mainstream news. Just because a person hasn't seen them on their favorite MSM channel doesn't mean that it hasn't been going on.
I think the protests(protests, not riots) around the country should make it pretty clear it's no where near isolated. This is the fourth forum I've been involved in that has threads on the topic. I've started none of them.
Google fu for "police abuse" videos picks up 34,800 video. https://www.google.com/search?q=police+abuse&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=police+abuse&tbm=vid Spend a day or two watching.
And no, not all of them should be considered police abuse. But enough of them are alarming, sickening and/or downright criminal to consider it an epidemic that needs eradicated.
I think the protests(protests, not riots) around the country should make it pretty clear it's no where near isolated. This is the fourth forum I've been involved in that has threads on the topic. I've started none of them.
Google fu for "police abuse" videos picks up 34,800 video. https://www.google.com/search?q=police+abuse&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=police+abuse&tbm=vid Spend a day or two watching.
And no, not all of them should be considered police abuse. But enough of them are alarming, sickening and/or downright criminal to consider it an epidemic that needs eradicated.
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f1r3b1rd
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I don't know ... I mean I've been pulled over in that small Mississippi town with my Louisiana plate and accused of driving drunk because at the last minute decided NOT to get coffee and pulled back on the highway .
The cop was a huge cocksmoker. After making me take a field sobriety test he gave me a ticket for wreckless operation
The one tool ln the whole force I got.
Then here in Nola I get pulled over for doing 60 in a 35 (had to piss bad) and told to be careful.
Im not saying all cops are one way or another; im saying there's a turd in ever group. In both cases; however, I did what the cop asked me to do and didn't act an ass.
The cop was a huge cocksmoker. After making me take a field sobriety test he gave me a ticket for wreckless operation
The one tool ln the whole force I got.
Then here in Nola I get pulled over for doing 60 in a 35 (had to piss bad) and told to be careful.
Im not saying all cops are one way or another; im saying there's a turd in ever group. In both cases; however, I did what the cop asked me to do and didn't act an ass.
I think it's a combination of things, one of them being school bullies, who never grew up, becoming cops. But, it goes deeper than that. There's several out there that think the badge gives them license to do whatever they want, everything from planting evidence to sexual assault to murder.
Here's another one where overzealous cops result in man's death.
Here's another one where overzealous cops result in man's death.
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f1r3b1rd
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Here's my issue with that sort of thing.
The camera person happened to be recording when the cop initiated contact?
Im by no means. Pro-popo but im not anti popo either.
I'm a natural skeptic and devils advocate type. Its pretty obvious that some cops are just plain assclowns and need to be cleaning gloryholes for a living not wearing a badge(ie- south Carolina cop) but some are damn good at what they do and im thankful they do it. (cops that responded to my accident and saved my life)
But when I see videos that edit out or don't have what led to the cop initiating contact with the civilian my skepticism is peaked immediately.
In every bad shooting it started with the civilian doing something wrong and it escolated to a level where the popo loss control of their own actions.
They should come train working a few Mardi Gras seasons down here.
The camera person happened to be recording when the cop initiated contact?
Im by no means. Pro-popo but im not anti popo either.
I'm a natural skeptic and devils advocate type. Its pretty obvious that some cops are just plain assclowns and need to be cleaning gloryholes for a living not wearing a badge(ie- south Carolina cop) but some are damn good at what they do and im thankful they do it. (cops that responded to my accident and saved my life)
But when I see videos that edit out or don't have what led to the cop initiating contact with the civilian my skepticism is peaked immediately.
In every bad shooting it started with the civilian doing something wrong and it escolated to a level where the popo loss control of their own actions.
They should come train working a few Mardi Gras seasons down here.
The so called proterstor are hardly a mark of an American consensus it was revealed that George Soros donated 30 million to astroturff Furgeson. the fact that there were numerous instances of orginizations like the new black panther party,the communist party usa, the socialists and anarchist groups sent to all these places to co-opt these incedents and take them out of the hands of the communities and their police departments and use them to create a political narritive by the left has been so well documented that anyone that can't cop to it are part of it.The media attention is relatively new. There are hundreds of stories and video from around the country that never made CNN or mainstream news. Just because a person hasn't seen them on their favorite MSM channel doesn't mean that it hasn't been going on.
I think the protests(protests, not riots) around the country should make it pretty clear it's no where near isolated. This is the fourth forum I've been involved in that has threads on the topic. I've started none of them.
Google fu for "police abuse" videos picks up 34,800 video. https://www.google.com/search?q=police+abuse&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=police+abuse&tbm=vid Spend a day or two watching.
And no, not all of them should be considered police abuse. But enough of them are alarming, sickening and/or downright criminal to consider it an epidemic that needs eradicated.
And the whitehouse has totally politicized it to deflcet people's attention from a disasterous presidency. yeah there is police abuses like all human abuses and you have a collection of videos but consider..we are a nation of 300+million people...To me the most brutal and flagrant abuses of our police are trivial to the daily crimes committed by our political class from the president down to our local mayors....and they get ignored or rationalized.and the fact we accept those crimes and crucify cops it a testamnet to the stupidity of the people and the effectiveness of the political class to use the media to manufacture thought and feed it to the population like pigs at a trough.
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I'm not leftist. I'm not communist. I'm not funded by Soros. I'm not a Black Panther. I'm not a socialist. I didn't vote for Obama.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but conservatives, libertarians republicans, or nobody else wants their ass beat by police for no good reason.
The thousands of videos prove these are not isolated incidents. Not only that, there are thousands more that were never video'd. You are, of course, free to close your eyes to them but when this happens to someone you care about, just remember that you thought it was no big deal. It only happens to a few people so it's okay, unless one or more of those people happen to be someone you care about.
The above jail video was a 14 year old girl. She was asked to take her shoes off and put them out the door. Have any younguns? For me, I find it best to speak up before this happens to others.
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I am not saying there are not abuses and they shouldn't be jailed for them, and I am concerned about militarization...what I am saying is that the reason we are having this discussion is not becuase there is some plauge,but because TV wants you to have this discussion..TV wants your attention here.... ,and why because we have ......mindnumbing excesses going on by the political class and they are astrofutffing a calamity to take people attention off them.....off creating a war in crimea,in gun running to al queda,in secret trade pacts which nobody gets to read,in massive domestic survellance.in drone strikes......really you wanna talk about getting pulled over for going 5 miles over the speed limit..when right now they are passing a secret trade agreement that will throw tens of thousand of people out of a job and give even more power and wealth to the elite....and this is the discussion TV doesn't want people having....
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I hear ya there. But I disagree, that it isn't a plague. I think the police pulling me over and harassing me because other people sell drugs is the same as the NSA collecting all my data because other people are terrorists. The premise and argument is the same. To keep people safe, the government needs to be all up in my business. The only difference is the police use threat of physical force. The NSA just sneaks around in the dark corners. They are keeping us "safe" from different things and in different ways but the end result is I get bent over. And no terrorists or drugs are going to be found.
I cannot deny that the attitude of cops has shifted drasticly since I was a kid...there is a military aspect to their outlook. as well a a sense of being under siege by the public...I'm not sure it's under siege by the public or a sense that the public is out to screw them through lawsuits or something...but look at Daren Wilson he was totally innocent..by the grand jury...by the injustice dpartment and the injustice department was out to lynch him but they couldn't make it stick....and still the guy is despised by the public while a public monument is erected to mike brown.......
I'm not sure why the cops are getting so violent toward the public...but I think it's coming from higher up.
I'm not sure why the cops are getting so violent toward the public...but I think it's coming from higher up.
Pauly Walnuts
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This country has been at war for a long time now. There is alot of military experience and mindset that has infiltrated the institution that is supposedly meant to 'protect and serve (protect the intrests of the govt and serve the politicians, imo. but this is off topic). The drastic increase and expanded uses of swat raids points to this. Allowing small suburban police departments to use combat vehicles at their whim suggests this militarization is from the top down.
The problem is, when a swat team tossed a stun grenade through a window and into a babies crib, seriously injuring an innocent child, they got off scott free (even after nothing was found in the house, aka bullshit warrant). Incidents like this make all justified shootings look like murder to the uninformed masses. Though, image isnt a priority when you have the best lawyers money can buy.
If you mean all thread in all sub-forums, I don't think you can. You can click the New Posts button to view all that have been posted to since your last visit, or you can go to the top level (by clicking Forums) and then into each sub-forum.
/back to our regularly scheduled program
There was **** in the house, the father put the crub against the door to slow down the raid then he ran off.....
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Ok, I'll admit to being mislead on that one. I'll look into it further.
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You were correct .http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/
However, what I don't understand is how kicking down doors and using maximum force is preferable to taking him outside the home, where there is much less risk of innocents being harmed.
I guess when a hammer is the preferred tool, every problem looks like a nail.
However, what I don't understand is how kicking down doors and using maximum force is preferable to taking him outside the home, where there is much less risk of innocents being harmed.
I guess when a hammer is the preferred tool, every problem looks like a nail.
I blame the whole 'war on drugs' thing, along with the militarization of police, on that.
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I agree.
Now you are in my wheel house because that is what I did.
Less risk to innocent people by taking them outside?
These are very violent people who are armed to the teeth. Would you rather they attempt an arrest in a shopping mall? Or maybe attempt to stop the car and have bullets flying everywhere on a busy street or in a residential neighborhood?
Also, many of these types of houses have 20+ people in them at any given time. All 20 are never out and about at the same time. At some point you need to go to the house to get the guns and drugs and guess what? There will still be plenty of violent people in there, the guns are still there, the $$$ are still there and the drugs are still there..
It would be nice if you could just call them on the phone and ask that they turn themselves in, bringing all the guns and drugs with them when they do so, but that is living in fantasy land buddy..
These are very violent people!
This thread is loaded with misinformation. Please, please, please educate yourself...
I don't understand is how kicking down doors and using maximum force
See above statement about them being armed to the teeth, Do you want them to know you are coming? We had someone killed during a 'knock and announce' warrant. No knock warrants MUST be specifically asked for and approved by a Judge. This is not something you just decide to do. You have to list why you want a no knock warrant. And yes, Judges may approve the warrant and deny the no knock.
Did you get the part where I said they are armed to the teeth? You may want to conduct a high risk warrant by knocking on the door and waiting 30 seconds when you know for a fact there are 17 guns in house, hard core gang members, tens of thousands of $$$ and product they are trying to protect, but I will take a pass on that as I liked going home at the end of the day..
Flash bangs are used with caution. Their use must again be approved. They are used during high risk warrants ONLY. Ma and Pa selling (word removed) out of their house, with no violent past criminal history, with no known weapons in the house probably won't have a no knock warrant with a flash bang used..
Come on man. I get it you do not like the police but please stop blowing everything out of proportion and educate yourself on the topic a little..
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Not trying to fan the flames here but this is a good read from a reporter who spent some time with the Orange County Sheriff in use of force training..
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/atkinson-663705-husband-knife.html?page=1
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/atkinson-663705-husband-knife.html?page=1
I'm an average citizen, a chef working long hours.
I'm a dorky asian guy an dress as so.
I've been pulled over because my vehicle matched a stolen car.
They did a felony stop, pulled me out, kicked me to the ground and had me there for 10 minutes on my knees during traffic. They were laughing the entire time knowing I dint fit the description of the car jackers. Yet they still found it funny to have a person on their knees.
They find this funny.
My uncle is a detective, and had to start out as a cop. He hates cops as well.
Going to have to call total 500% BS on this...
1) They would have all been fired and arrested if true.
2) You realize that a detective IS a police officer right?
If I could stop laughing, I would...
I live in Florissant. I agree with this statement.
Hey, guess what, today's 4th of July festivities on "public" property have a quarantine zone labeled "First Amendment Zone". It's a little box intended to corral folks. People are okay with this. Wow.
Look, I think Michael Brown got what was coming to him but the stuff coming to light after that incident is truly sickening and "we" do need to stop this.
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At the very minimum, this has been a interesting thread.
And I admit that as an older white dude, driving an old white dudes car, (The Old Mans Pimp Mobile. Mercury Grand Marquise, grey paint and tinted windows)I have never been pulled over for just nothing.
Except once when I was going through a well known speed trap (South Bloomfield, Ohio) and got pulled over while I was decelerating from 50mph to the marked (barely ?) 35mph.
The officer pulled me over for doing 37mph. No if's and's or but's, I was getting a ticket.
But I have also been helped by a few officers over the years.
I guess what I am trying to get at, every profession has a few bad eggs...................Or JERKS..........Sadly with guns.
And I am very much looking forward to the time when ALL police officers are equipped with video gear that records EVERYTHING!
And I admit that as an older white dude, driving an old white dudes car, (The Old Mans Pimp Mobile. Mercury Grand Marquise, grey paint and tinted windows)I have never been pulled over for just nothing.
Except once when I was going through a well known speed trap (South Bloomfield, Ohio) and got pulled over while I was decelerating from 50mph to the marked (barely ?) 35mph.
The officer pulled me over for doing 37mph. No if's and's or but's, I was getting a ticket.
But I have also been helped by a few officers over the years.
I guess what I am trying to get at, every profession has a few bad eggs...................Or JERKS..........Sadly with guns.
And I am very much looking forward to the time when ALL police officers are equipped with video gear that records EVERYTHING!
Back when I was doing what I did we had one helmet mounted camera that was used on search warrants. Now this was only one camera on one persons helmet and there was 12 of us per team..
Entering a house you'd have numerous people all going in different directions so the one camera was kind of pointless for the most part but it did actually come in handy a few times.. Me? I would have LOVED a body or helmet camera...
Most modern police departments have had in car cameras for years. I agree that body cams would be great but do the taxpayers want to foot the bill for them?
Widespread use of body cameras also present their own problems, like providing unintended surveillance of everyone in the area wherever there's a LEO around. For me, that makes me feel uneasy just as much as it does safe. Same with the license plate scanners they now have that have basically built a database tracking urban residents' travel patterns.
I know the big-government types who support the (in name only) small-government party will pop back with a "Hey, if you've got nothing to hide..." response. Personally, the less data big government has on me, the safer I feel - even though these days as a boring old man raising a family I really don't have much to hide. Besides, most of the time there's a serious incident where body cameras are involved, the camera turns out to be "malfunctioning" or "not turned on."
I know the big-government types who support the (in name only) small-government party will pop back with a "Hey, if you've got nothing to hide..." response. Personally, the less data big government has on me, the safer I feel - even though these days as a boring old man raising a family I really don't have much to hide. Besides, most of the time there's a serious incident where body cameras are involved, the camera turns out to be "malfunctioning" or "not turned on."
Any officer who does not want to wear a body cam should probably not be the job..
I would have welcomed one..
You have no idea how many bogus complaints about excessive use of force, planting evidence, being rude, et al could be proven to be flat out lies if the officer was wearing a camera... I don't doubt or dispute that some should not be doing the job and that some are out of control but they are few and far in between from what I've seen at least..
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Actually, I think they would save the taxpayers money. I heard a report on the radio that was doing a study on what those body cam's did for the Sunbury, Ohio police department. The cost was not huge, the data /recordings are stored by a privately held company so the cops can't be accused of messing with the recordings.
Since using them, the officers have all been on their best behavior.
And if someone get's arrested and tries to say that they were innocent and the cops treated them badly, their attourney has access to those recordings and then they tell their trying to get rich quick clients that there is a recording of them doing bad things and they drop the case.
Saving more than enough money in prosecution cost to offset the camera cost.