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What are your opinions on 'clones'?

conanthewarrior

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Hi people. Me again.

I never actually asked the community as a whole, or individualy, how they feel about clones.

Myself, I own a Nautilus mini genuine, SMOK RSBT2 original, and a El Cabron clone RDA, as I wasn't ready to spend over £40 on a dripper, and the clone was good quality, come with the spares like the original, and was only £13.99.

I think if a product is not compromising your safety, no problem really. I do feel for the original manufacturer and their sales, but the RDA's are so expensive I could only justify to me and my family getting a clone.

Whats your opinion on clone tanks or RDA's? Also electronics? (I am against these electronic clones. I would not buy a copy of the device I wanted, even though in a way they are copies themselves lol).

So, whats your feelings on clones?
 

keithh1981

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Clones are basically theft. That is why Hana Modz went after the clone companies and win easy.

Think of it this way. You invest in a company and create a top selling and highly popular mod. Because of your name brand, supply and demand etc, you sell your mod for a reasonable $150 all together.

Then a clone company comes out instead of making their own design they copy inch by inch and even use your own logos and names on the device and sell it real cheap and most novice buyers buy the crap and think it is authentic. Now these people going to go around and say this company is over rated and bought a lemon device. Not to mention the fact steals profits for the guy who had the original idea and put the work in to make it a reality.

In the end it is theft imo. If I couldn't afford something I will either save up for it or say not worth it. I am not going to pay less for a lesser product just because it is a great product and it will screw the owner of the real thing because that is one of the reasons why they have to price it high to count for all the theft they project to have.

IMO it is theft and personally there is not a product out in any field that is worth me paying for a lesser product for and screwing the people who put out these great products. I either save up or deem it not worth a buy because I week not cheap out and not go broke at the same time.

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conanthewarrior

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Clones are basically theft. That is why Hana Modz went after the clone companies and win easy.

Think of it this way. You invest in a company and create a top selling and highly popular mod. Because of your name brand, supply and demand etc, you sell your mod for a reasonable $150 all together.

Then a clone company comes out instead of making their own design they copy inch by inch and even use your own logos and names on the device and sell it real cheap and most novice buyers buy the crap and think it is authentic. Now these people going to go around and say this company is over rated and bought a lemon device. Not to mention the fact steals profits for the guy who had the original idea and put the work in to make it a reality.

In the end it is theft imo. If I couldn't afford something I will either save up for it or say not worth it. I am not going to pay less for a lesser product just because it is a great product and it will screw the owner of the real thing because that is one of the reasons why they have to price it high to count for all the theft they project to have.

IMO it is theft and personally there is not a product out in any field that is worth me paying for a lesser product for and screwing the people who put out these great products. I either save up or deem it not worth a buy because I week not cheap out and not go broke at the same time.

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I didn't realise that. I can see how it does take the mick using your own logos, especially if it is a identical copy, mine come in a box that said clone with a different logo, but the device DOES still say el cabron.

EDIT: I have realised that me alone not buying a clone is not going to stop clones. I own both real and clone devices, more authentic than clone. So I now have a mutation X4 clone on the way, that cost me about £12 something, by a good clone company.
 
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Zamazam

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Clones are basically theft. That is why Hana Modz went after the clone companies and win easy.

Think of it this way. You invest in a company and create a top selling and highly popular mod. Because of your name brand, supply and demand etc, you sell your mod for a reasonable $150 all together.

Then a clone company comes out instead of making their own design they copy inch by inch and even use your own logos and names on the device and sell it real cheap and most novice buyers buy the crap and think it is authentic. Now these people going to go around and say this company is over rated and bought a lemon device. Not to mention the fact steals profits for the guy who had the original idea and put the work in to make it a reality.

In the end it is theft imo. If I couldn't afford something I will either save up for it or say not worth it. I am not going to pay less for a lesser product just because it is a great product and it will screw the owner of the real thing because that is one of the reasons why they have to price it high to count for all the theft they project to have.

IMO it is theft and personally there is not a product out in any field that is worth me paying for a lesser product for and screwing the people who put out these great products. I either save up or deem it not worth a buy because I week not cheap out and not go broke at the same time.

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I guess the high end mod makers better pony up some dough to the flashlight designers who's designs they stole and turned into mods. There is a reason clones exist. Price and availability. I own authentics and I own clones, most of them without logo's, or a different logo than the designers. Remember the venerable authentic Nemesis mod? That design of Nemesis on the side of the tube was ripped off from an artist without any recompense.

Mod and atty makers are designing their products in the west and having China machine the parts. The SubOhm project is a perfect example. Vapers demanded a lower cost mod and atty, so they got them. The days are over when mod makers could make a copper tube, put a magnetic throw switch in it and charge $300. Same goes for atty's that cost over $100. Clone makers are responding to a demand for lower cost products. Their quality used to be shit, but it is now good to sometimes better than the authentic.

I don't advocate being an all authentic or all clone zealot. I'm content to purchase what I want, at a price I am willing to pay. Free markets tend to operate in a supply vs demand with price point being at the top of the list.
 

keithh1981

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Good point but still theft no matter what.

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conanthewarrior

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Right, I was thinking deeply about Keiths comment, then Zamazams comment come along. I was glad it did. I should not allow others opinion to sway how I personally feel about something.

Also, seeing as most of the designers have their products made in china then sell them at an uprated price, some of these clones could well be identical, but coming out of the back door instead of the front. This is pure speculation, but it has been known to happen with guitars when the chinese were producing. Some went out of the back, for much, much less, and the 'workers'(more like slaves) got a small profit, much more than their weekly wage. So if this is happening with certain clones ( they actually are identical) we could actually be helping Chinese workers by providing more money to them lol.

I was going to order an original RDA just now, the turbine by tobeco. Lucky I phone the shop. Its called the turbine as it has a bloody fan that makes a whirring noise as you take a pull, and it is not removeable. So vaping on that, you would sound like you are playing with a childs toy. Now that really IS NOT sensible.

In the end, I wanted to buy something, I only had £20, so the clone won again. I don't think me as an individual will stop counterfitting in China, so I don't feel too bad, and the company that cloned it actually makes good clones. It is a mutation X4 clone. I will be as happy with this as the original if I am honest, and I saved money.

I also use torrents, so I can't really preach about 'theft' as I actually pay for these clones, whereas with the torrents I pay nothing, at all. But then there is the argument that I haven't actually stolen a physical copy, so no one loses money as it has not been pressed to DVD and shelved. It is not like walking into HMV or pc world and putting that in your coat and walking out, as then PC world or HMV actually lose that product. With the torrent, the data already exists, and I have probably seen the film at the cinema already.

EDIT: I changed my opinion very quickly there. That is part of my problem im afraid, my decision making has been affected so I can change like the wind lol. Also, however unfortunate if there is a demand for something, there will be counterfits. I yoyo, and they copy the high end Yoyo's (£150 plus).

So, really its unfortunate it happens, but I alone can not stop it, so I think I will buy what I fancy, wether that be original or cloned. Tommorow I have an authentic lemo V2 coming with a clone Mutation X4.
 
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Merrick92

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tumblr_nltxtprSO01unti8do1_250.jpg

This again? Haven't we beaten this horse to death, waited 3 days for it to rise and beaten it to death again? Is this thread number 20 on the subject? or 21?
 

burley

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Just about everything I own is authentic, but I'll admit to having a few cloned mechanicals. I like 'em just fine. shrug
 

UncleRJ

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I have a mix myself.

But a lot of authentics are so overpriced that for the price of one authentic I can get a mod and a topper.
 

f1r3b1rd

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tumblr_nltxtprSO01unti8do1_250.jpg

This again? Haven't we beaten this horse to death, waited 3 days for it to rise and beaten it to death again? Is this thread number 20 on the subject? or 21?
 

outwest

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Most of my stuff is clones. Most authentics are overpriced to the point that I wouldn't buy them. One could argue that if clones didn't exist, I wouldn't have a choice. Well, in that case I might buy one or two authentics, but certainly not in the numbers that I have bought clones of. As far as theft, as long as the consumer is made fully aware of it being a clone, it's not theft in my opinion. Sure, in the eyes of the federal govt it is, but. . .
 

smacksy

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I like authentic mods made here in the the USA.... Like ProVape, Bay City Vapor, Tatroe to name a few...parts are always available with superb lifetime customer service...something I appreciate and couldn't get on a clone made in China..
But that's just me I reckon.. . lol

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scarecrowjenkins

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This topic is always fun. I personally choose not to support the clone industry. I choose to support the hard work that goes into designing a device, even if it's design isn't ground-breaking. I choose to do this for one main reason: if the people thinking of these devices can't make money then one day there will be nobody to take the industry forward. For me it's worth the $60 to help keep things moving forward. Look at companies like P4You, Kangertech and Sigelei-Chinese companies that actually come out with their own devices. I'm not saying China is not worthy of my money, i just choose to support companies that are at least trying to do their own thing. As long as the people who are creating new devices can still make money then we will always have new products to look forward to. That's just how i choose to spend my money. Even if it means i only get a new device every 2 months instead of every week. Cheers!
 

f1r3b1rd

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I like authentic mods made here in the the USA.... Like ProVape, Bay City Vapor, Tatroe to name a few...parts are always available with superb lifetime customer service...something I appreciate and couldn't get on a clone made in China..
But that's just me I reckon.. . lol

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Really can't help but laugh here and while I dont want to engage on the clone vs authentic argument because its played out worse than Brittany Spears.
Anyway, were you implying sarcasm? As I read what you wrote I noticed your avatar is two Chinese mods
 

smacksy

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That's true.. They are the only Chinese mods I own though...my mechs are authentic and I should've referred to them specifically.. My bad!
6ab2ed2b6e7c1b86691a6b336946fa25.jpg

BTW, I don't think the IPV mods in my avatar can be classified as "clones"
I be more inclined to call them authentic..just made in China...lol
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f1r3b1rd

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Lol, like I said, I just thought it was funny. or maybe your way of saying 'it is what it is'

To a degree its unavoidable though, global economy, global industry, its a sign of the growth of the industry.
 

smacksy

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Lol, like I said, I just thought it was funny. or maybe your way of saying 'it is what it is'

To a degree its unavoidable though, global economy, global industry, its a sign of the growth of the industry.
Sorta glad you brought up I had Chinese mods in my Avatar...I just changed it to me blowing a thick, milky white cloud.... Don't want people to think I'm in love with Chinese mods... God Forbid! Lol

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f1r3b1rd

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Sorta glad you brought up I had Chinese mods in my Avatar...I just changed it to me blowing a thick, milky white cloud.... Don't want people to think I'm in love with Chinese mods... God Forbid! Lol

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Lmao!!!!
 

conanthewarrior

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Sorry if this has been asked loads before, I genuinely did not realise. Still nice to know what people think at this moment though :).
 

Barkt

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I like authentic gear and wish I could afford more of it, but unfortunately I can't. I do feel bad for not supporting the designers. At the same time my collection has hit the point where I think it's time to just go authentic from here on out. Two clone mechs, two VW and a handful of authentic and clone toppers mean that I certainly have enough to hold me until I can save up for the legit piece. It will probably save me money in the long run though, as I'm much more likely to carefully consider a $100+ dollar purchase and not make those impulse FastTech orders

With all that said, I have no qualms whatsoever with buying a clone of an out of production product. I just picked up a Bambino clone that I love. It's impossible to find the authentics (new anyway). I like it enough that I would buy another in a heartbeat if it went south and would buy the original if it was still available.

I sort of look at clones like videogames. People bitch about pirating and ROMs of games illegally downloaded all the time. And for a new, readily available game I agree completely. But if it's out of print and there is no way to give money to the developers I will download it.

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conanthewarrior

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I think I am in your boat, I have a small collection now, the only thing being added in 2 weeks is a sig 50, I already have a sig 30 but like it so much I am getting the 50 as a spare, and donating my 30 to the missus.

I have the Sig30, authentic nautilus mini, authentic SMOK RSBT2, Authentic lemo V2 in the post with a clone mutation x 4, and I own a clone el cabron, is a good clone though.

So although that is small, its enough to get me through and I can save for genuine for the most part from now on. Unless it is not made anymore, then I would buy a clone like Barkt said. I liked his comparison to videogames. If they are no longer made, I would download them if that was the only way to play was using an emulator, and not feel bad as as a child I probably owned the game anyway lol.
 

Merrick92

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No offense intended to the op. On the bright side this particular thread has so far been much more genial than others.
 

Zamazam

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I like authentic mods made here in the the USA.... Like ProVape, Bay City Vapor, Tatroe to name a few...parts are always available with superb lifetime customer service...something I appreciate and couldn't get on a clone made in China..
But that's just me I reckon.. . lol

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Tatroe not so much. They closed down, their gear wasn't selling like it used to, so they went back to being a contract machine shop.
 

smacksy

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Tatroe not so much. They closed down, their gear wasn't selling like it used to, so they went back to being a contract machine shop.
Wow.. Didn't know that.. I have two of their Big Nasty mods that still work..
I think my sister got a wide batt cap for her Provari made by Tatroe also..
But I didn't know they shut down..till now, lol

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Zamazam

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Yep. I have a Big Nasty V1, had to get the switch replaced almost immediately since it got hot. The first thing they told me to do was clean the switch. Since it was only 2 days old, I told them so. The switch was all shiny and pristine copper. They swapped out quite a few switches over a year or so.
 

dionysuskiss

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I try to get the authentic, when it's reasonable. Take Cthulhumod's Cthulhu and Hastur for example. Most of my toppers and mechs are clones, however. But I will not buy a clone regulated device. I could be wrong but, it just doesn't feel safe to me. Just like you don't go cheap on the batteries.
 

misterJ

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I don't think all clones are bad...
But sometimes I prefer authentic.

I have an authentic tugboat RDA. This thing is solid, very heavy, I've dropped my vape box (solara 30) many times on the RDA, and basically left small dents in the drip tip or side of rda.

I also have (had) a tugboat clone, and it shattered the first time it dropped.

So YMMV.

I have seen on youtube that the new tugboat clones are built beefy, and without the copper post.

Might get one. Though the clones are also sold out, lame

clones exist because authentic are obviously over priced and not enough supply.
 

TasteMyToast

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I only buy authentics, but reasonably priced ones only. I'm not going to drop 300 bucks on a mech mod, or 100 on an rda.
 

dionysuskiss

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I do stick with makers like Infinite, Tobeco, Cigreen and HCigar. You pay a little more, but I haven't been disappointed yet. My one and only purchase with FT was a failure.
 

conanthewarrior

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I try to get the authentic, when it's reasonable. Take Cthulhumod's Cthulhu and Hastur for example. Most of my toppers and mechs are clones, however. But I will not buy a clone regulated device. I could be wrong but, it just doesn't feel safe to me. Just like you don't go cheap on the batteries.
I am the same as you. I don't mind clones, as long as they are not parts that effect safety, so in reality the only clones I will buy are drippers or tanks (although all my tanks are genuine, just my RDA's that I own 2 of, are not.)

So the majority of my stuff is genuine, but I do have 2 clone RDA's, an el cabron and a mutation X4 which is in the post. I was going to get the velecotiy, but they was out of stock so I got that one instead.
 

conanthewarrior

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Sorry, I didn't realise there had been this thread that turned argument before. Looking logically, it obviously has happened but I don't always look logically lol.

I just wanted to discuss how each other felt about clones, like I don't mind them, would prefer to buy original if I can afford it, that kind of thing.

I didn't realise a similar thread had escalated down the pan lol, that wasn't my interntion. And people are being prettty rational in here, so maybe I asked it in the right way? Who knows lol, whatever you use enjoy vaping :).
 

dionysuskiss

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I say, vape whatever you like. I've seen some nasty thread wars over it, though. Fanboys can be so close minded. I've never owned one, but to me, they are like iphones. Over priced status symbols. The only difference is, Provaris actually last.
 

f1r3b1rd

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anything that doesn't get used will last.

I have 2 p2.5's a p3 along with several other mods.
All of my prorape mods have had to go back to prorape for issues, either the 510 popped off, the screen broke or they just stopped working, none of my dna30 mods or yihi powered mods have had any issues, and a few of my dna40s have had problems,
Also my worst customer service experience was with prorape. at least with the dna40 issues they swaped out the mod, no questions asked, you know the owned It.

Like you said though, use what you like, you're vaping not smoking so that's good,
 
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dionysuskiss

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LOL...good to know. Not like I'd ever get one, too much $,and not enough power.
Back on topic...yay! My Hastur and Velocity clone and Stingray X clone have shipped! I don't mind mech clones.
 

conanthewarrior

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LOL...good to know. Not like I'd ever get one, too much $,and not enough power.
Back on topic...yay! My Hastur and Velocity clone and Stingray X clone have shipped! I don't mind mech clones.
Ahh you lucky git! I wanted the velocity clone but they was out of stock so I got the mutation X4 clone. Smaller than I thought it would be, I haven''t really tested it yet, as I am testing the lemo for the whole day, but tommorrow I am going to have a play with it.

Let me know how the velocity clone is :).
 

dionysuskiss

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Will do. It will be interesting putting coils on that thing.
 
I think clones are good because the big name companies charge probably 3x more than what it costs to make them


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f1r3b1rd

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I think clones are good because the big name companies charge probably 3x more than what it costs to make them


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This is weird... are you Zach Wilde of Black Label Society?
 

f1r3b1rd

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Had to ask-loll
 

itsyourmove

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If they didn't make an authentic there wouldn't be a clone.
 

smacksy

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You mean those really expensive, well made mods that are outperformed by the isticks?
-I'm allowed I regrettingly own a few
Think he means these expensive well made mods that got me off cigarettes almost three years ago now...
Of course I don't use them much these days since the high powered dual batt box mods came out... Lol
ac68256c45e421994b1bc5d748149c7a.jpg

But I still have these three...lol
d06ffcc8cfe49477b1f9018523323fd5.jpg


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f1r3b1rd

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Like I said, I own a few myself............
temporary_zpsje1yx3m8.jpg


Still the least used of the group
temporary_zps3wnmppw6.jpg


They just don't appeal to me, especially the p3.
The 2.5; has it rightful place in the history of vaping, the p3 on the other hand........
 
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conanthewarrior

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This is weird... are you Zach Wilde of Black Label Society?
Just realised how cool this name actually is. Rock on man! lol. Now, say for example a Sigelei 30, is that original, or is that cloned from a more expensive mod? If it is, I do own a clone lol
 
Like I said, I own a few myself............
temporary_zpsje1yx3m8.jpg


Still the least used of the group
temporary_zps3wnmppw6.jpg


They just don't appeal to me, especially the p3.
The 2.5; has it rightful place in the history of vaping, the p3 on the other hand........

Any of those for sale? :p


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f1r3b1rd

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f1r3b1rd

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Any of the rdas?


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Sorry dude, all the RDA's I use are authentic. If They are under 100$ I buy authentic and if I dint Like them sell them through consignment at the shop. over 100$ and I buy the clone, if I like it I buy the authentic and pif the clone to a new builder.If I don't like the clone I usuallly just pif it or keep it for a beater
 
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