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PSA: Use more cotton, Scottish Roll style

hondo701

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So this has been going around Reddit for a few days. It seems to go against everything that everyone is taught when getting into RDA/RBA. It is a way of wicking people are calling "The Scottish Roll". Basically, you roll the cotton and pack it into the coil tight, very tight. I was skeptical until it put it in my Marquis and holy crap it works. I have not had a dry hit yet, and the cotton cleans up to almost white when it is time to drip again.

This sounds simple, but has made the biggest difference in the flavor and actual vape time for me. I will be wicking like this from now on. I included a link to the video, it is not mine, but worth watching and trying. I though some people here may be interested in this. We talk a lot about coils, but wicking it probably the most important part with the least attention.


Here is how I used it last night. This required a small paperclip to feed it in since it was so tight and they are vertical coils. I also used the paperclip to spread the bottom after it was in place. Best build I have ever had on this.

 

VapeRN

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It seems just counterintuitive enough that now I have to try it. Thanks for sharing.


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BoomStick

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I've found snug is much better than loose. However, using so much cotton that you need to use a tool is just over the line of being too tight in my experience.
 

Neunerball

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I saw another video describing this wicking method. However, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

yamooo

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I think I'll have to shop a bag o'balls for trying this. Or a giant sack o'squares. o_O
That's just insane to use an entire square on one dual build.

Exactly! I seriously do not understand why people are going so crazy about this. I can understand not having to drip every 7-8 hits but IMO its just not worth the amount of cotton you are using. I change my wicks every day or two. Your builds are not going to last as longer either because of the incredible amount of force you are putting on them. I've tried this method and it just gives me less flavor and it also inhibits the airflow.
 

krashkrieg

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Exactly! I seriously do not understand why people are going so crazy about this. I can understand not having to drip every 7-8 hits but IMO its just not worth the amount of cotton you are using. I change my wicks every day or two. Your builds are not going to last as longer either because of the incredible amount of force you are putting on them. I've tried this method and it just gives me less flavor and it also inhibits the airflow.
I disagree, I did a dual 22g 0.2 with this method on my Troll... It is freekin awesome! Never worry about dry hit, you will taste very slight cotton then time to juice up. I get at least 15 + hits every time, no flavor loss at all. Cotton is damn cheap if you buy right...

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Fishman1704

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I've been here vaping on a dual parallel coil and getting dry hits about every four to five hits, and I was getting tired of it. I was about to recoil back to the old boring standard dual coil where I could get ten to twelve hits per drip with little flavor when I saw this video. I said what the hell. So I just pulled my wicking out of the coils and rewicked like the video. I figured I was going to rebuild anyway, what's two cents worth of cotton? The result? I'll be damned if it didn't work. I'm getting full on flavor you'd expect from a dual parallel build, but I keep hitting it again and again. I'm getting fifteen hits out of this before I start to feel uncomfortable and redrip. I don't know when the dry hit will come since I'm not going that far, but this is pretty impressive.
To the pundits, all I have to say is that haven't tried it and they are just going off of common sense and what they've learned so far. I never would have done this myself if I wasn't dry hitting so often on my current build and I didn't see this video. I say try it. What have you got to lose but two cents worth of cotton. You just might be surprised.
 

yamooo

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I disagree, I did a dual 22g 0.2 with this method on my Troll... It is freekin awesome! Never worry about dry hit, you will taste very slight cotton then time to juice up. I get at least 15 + hits every time, no flavor loss at all. Cotton is damn cheap if you buy right...

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I already said that besides not having to drip every 7-8 hits, this wicking provides no extra benefit.
 

BoomStick

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Super tight cotton in the coil slows wicking which causes less juice to be consumed per hit which gives more hits per drip. You're intentionally causing your wick to be less efficient. If it works for you and you like it, cool. I don't.
 

claviger

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Nope. Doesn't slow anything. Nope try again.

Running dual coils in a Velocity, dual strands of 24 ga 317L wrapped in .1x.5 kanthal a1 ribbon like a clapton, .14 ohms, temp controlled on a dna 200. 150 watt preheat for 1 second, set to 80 watts and 440f. No scorching at all, very hot vape (the kanthal wacks out TC a bit).

Tried the Scottish wick and flavor is identical to traditional wick, vapor amount is so close to the same I can't say if it's more or less. 28 hits before flavor gets muted at all, 39 hits before major throttling by the TC. Traditional wick was around 7-10 before flavor fell off and a pull or two later it would just stop vaping right because tc would kick in.

Took 18 drips to fill the well and saturate with traditional wicking.

Takes a whopping 35 now to reach the same point.

It's not about "slowing the wicking which causes less juice to be consumed per hit which gives more hits per drip". My wick moves every bit as quickly as traditional, I drip down the center, as soon as I stop, cap the bottle and rip, it's just as wet a vape as if we're using a traditional wick.

Scottish Roll = gold standard of RDA wicking. I know, it's counter point to all "traditional" knowledge, so that makes it hard for some people to accept.
 
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BoomStick

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Research capillary action. I'm not talking about getting the juice up to the coil using the fibers that are loose, I'm talking about the wick in the coil where it's tight. Nope try again. o_O
 
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krashkrieg

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Research capillary action. I'm not talking about getting the juice up to the coil using the fibers that are loose, I'm talking about the wick in the coil where it's tight. Nope try again. o_O

Well apparently some people feel it's the greatest way ever to use cotton and some don't care for it ....different strokes for different folks....some like myself, tried it and will never look back...
please also note: this is for 3-4mm coils only, I don't believe there's a benefit with smaller coils.
 

BoomStick

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Absolutely. Whatever works for you. I'd imagine it wouldn't be ideal in a long coil (just a guess) or like you said a narrow coil. I like mine more short and fat than long and skinny. Seems the short'ish and fatt'ish coils wick better and have more even heat across the coil.
 

CurlyxCracker

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There's no way in hell you'd get a 4 second pull at say 180 watts with this method. No way no how. As @BoomStick pointed out, you're choking the hell out of the wick. I don't do 1sec pulls.
 

natchez

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OP thanks for the tip. Will give it a try and see how it works out.
 

claviger

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Jesus people are so stubborn.

The hundreds of posts out there about how people like this, how it improved their vape, about how it's their favorite wicking method.

Still, the know it alls feel the need to explain how it logically won't improve your vape. The reality is those who haven't tried it and feel or think that it will not improve the performance because it's just wrong and will quote choke there coil are a perfect example of refusing to acknowledge progress.

Enjoy you frequent dripping and easier to burn wicks the rest of us will be over there blowing clouds.
 

claviger

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Well apparently some people feel it's the greatest way ever to use cotton and some don't care for it ....different strokes for different folks....some like myself, tried it and will never look back...
please also note: this is for 3-4mm coils only, I don't believe there's a benefit with smaller coils.

The problem is people who haven't tried it that knock it. Its typical for certain groups of people to see something they think won't be a better method of doing something then rationalizing that decision with flawed logic to avoid trying the new method. This is pretty much so it leads to stagnation and Industry. Thank the Spaghetti Monster for people who actually innovate by not being constrained by traditionalism.
 

BoomStick

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I guess the dry hits I've gotten in the past when using too much cotton that went away when adjusting from super tight to snug were a result of me being stubborn. Use whatever method you want, but please don't insult those of us that prefer a different method. Different methods have different limitations with different devices, different builds, different coil geometries, different power levels, different chamber sizes and geometries, etc. Deciding what method and it's associated limitations to use depends on many factors and is a personal choice. Your "one size fits all and if you disagree you're a closed minded fool" logic is flawed, arrogant and insulting. Vaping involves many, many variables and thinking that fixing one variable at an extreme value and that it will work the best regardless of any other variable is ridiculous. Tell me how I would double or more the amount of cotton I use in this without dramatically affecting the great performance I'm currently getting.
4aNV528.jpg
 

claviger

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"using too much cotton" is not the Scottish roll method, perhaps start your mental justification of invalidating it by initially understanding what is being discussed and how it is not simply "using too much cotton".

A dripper is a dripper, there are really only 3 deck styles in them, just tweaked to a tiny in model specifics as you know. The Scottish Roll works well in all of them. All those variables, yeah not relevant to if the Scottish Roll will hold more liquid in it and allow longer vaping with less frequent dripping.

Vape how you want, hell there are still people on Vivi Nova's adapted to EGO Twists that are happy as could be... Then again, there are people who drive terrible cars, wear terrible clothes, and buy iphones every year.
 

BoomStick

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So after 16 hits the guy in the video says he could tell the cotton was drying out 10 hits ago. And that was while taking super short hits. That's not the kind of performance I prefer. I'm not willing to sacrifice quality for quantity. That's why I use an rda and not some kind of tank. Promoting this method while refusing to acknowledge its negative aspects.... You know what...... I'm done here. Thread unwatched. Enjoy your day.
 

krashkrieg

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So after 16 hits the guy in the video says he could tell the cotton was drying out 10 hits ago. And that was while taking super short hits. That's not the kind of performance I prefer. I'm not willing to sacrifice quality for quantity. That's why I use an rda and not some kind of tank. Promoting this method while refusing to acknowledge its negative aspects.... You know what...... I'm done here. Thread unwatched. Enjoy your day.
Stubborn stubborn.... Keep babbling without trying, it's not only way to Vape it..... You know the drying is coming but doesn't affect taste of juice. Glad you unwatched thread, rather hear from those that actually tried than just theories.

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VapingN252

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That's kinda like the method I've always used. I believe the cotton should be fluffy in and out. Leaving the ends out fluffed up and tucking about 1/3 of them in the wells works wonders
 

BoomStick

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natchez

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Thanks to the OP for posting the video link- did not realize a wicking suggestion would elicit much controversy. This seems similar to the old tear off some cotton ball and stuff it in approach we used a while back before the Japanese organic sheets hit the scene. As always, YMMV :).

I must be one of the dinosaurs- still vaping a Kryptonite 454. This method works well to 60 watts and that is all I push.
 

Robert B

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I think I'll have to shop a bag o'balls for trying this. Or a giant sack o'squares. o_O
That's just insane to use an entire square on one dual build.
A bag of Shiseido jap cotton squares are about 9 dollars for 160 squares, or about 5cents a square (give or take a penny!)
 

VapingN252

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I use Wal Green cotton balls and they work fine. Better than anything else for me personally
 

robot zombie

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So, I just sat down and tried this in my Mutation X v4 with a fresh, 3mm dual 22g. 6 wraps came up to ~0.178. On my mech, that's something like 100w. It's a hot, juice hogging vape. It's one of my favorites, so I am very familiar with how it wicks under normal conditions.

I should note that I used a tad bit less cotton than that guy did. I tore a 1/4" off of each of the stretched pieces of cotton before rolling them up. It was still quite tight.

I'm not extremely impressed with the performance. I mean, it does work, which I suppose is saying something, given the ridiculous amount of cotton. Sure enough, it vapes for longer between drips and doesn't ever give me dry hits. It keeps up just fine with 5-second draws. That aspect of it certainly does defy conventional wisdom on the proper amount of cotton to use. I have to give it credit for that.

However, if I am to consider the performance I've come to expect from this build when wicked with minimal, peeled pads... ...the temperature is a bit lower, the flavor is somewhat muted (it requires a lot more break-in time to come around,) and the vapor production is 3/5ths of what it usually is. It also has a noticeable ramp-up that my standard-method dual 22's at this resistance do not. Airflow feels tighter. Seems to be choking the coils a bit, though somehow, nothing is burning!

I will say that the density doesn't feel like it suffers at all and it dials back the throat hit, which is not an unwelcome change for this particular build. Even 3/5ths of the vapor is a solid amount of vapor with a high-powered, moderately-high-surface-area build like this. It mellows out this hard-hitting build in unique ways.

All in all, the deficits aren't total deal-breakers for me. It works passably well in this build and does have the benefits of less leakage, less dripping, and what seems to be less juice consumption. In terms of raw performance, it's no match for the standard method, but I can see why some people would prefer this method for dripping convenience and maybe even the performance with certain coils and atties. Personally, I don't mind leaving it like this until it's time to clean these coils.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not bad, but it's not exactly a world-shattering revelation, either. Would I recommend that people start doing this over the standard method? Nah. It was worth trying, though. It's certainly interesting.
 
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Browncoat

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Part of the appeal of this is that it's Reddit. The ECR sub on there has a very hive-minded mentality. Meaning, you're a total newb douche canoe if you don't agree with everyone else jumping on the bandwagon for whatever they deem is the latest and greatest. I will say, Reddit has turned me on to some lesser known and inexpensive juice companies that make incredible e-liquid for dirt cheap...so there's that.

To each their own. I tried this wicking method and wasn't that impressed by it. It works, but as someone who replaces my wicks every 1-2 days, it's just a waste of material IMHO. The muted flavor and cloud production wasn't worth it for me. It's nicknamed a "dripper" for a reason, kids. Trying to overcompensate for that by using extra wick is kind of self-defeating.

GrimmGreen posted a video a couple months ago of his wicking method, which is almost spot-on with how I do it.
 

Stepinrazor

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Watched the video, tried the method and am loving it.

It's bought new life to my Aria Anarchist Phenotype L
 
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robot zombie

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Part of the appeal of this is that it's Reddit. The ECR sub on there has a very hive-minded mentality. Meaning, you're a total newb douche canoe if you don't agree with everyone else jumping on the bandwagon for whatever they deem is the latest and greatest.
Ahh, no, that makes perfect sense to me. Shit, a lot of vapers in general have this habit of learning a new trick and suddenly thinking they know everything. There's a constant push towards the bleeding edge among many circles. The downside to that is that basic knowledge often gets swept off in the wake of new ideas. We forget time-honored lessons learned.
It's nicknamed a "dripper" for a reason, kids. Trying to overcompensate for that by using extra wick is kind of self-defeating.
I would tend to agree there, though I think if we're being honest with ourselves, does anyone choose dripping because they like to constantly be dripping juice onto the wicks? I do still think it's kind of silly and counterintuitive, but if there may be a way to boost juice capacity, then why not go for it, yanno? Besides, sometimes when pursuing an idea with a specific goal in mind, you wind up stumbling onto a completely different application from what was intended.


I was tinkering with stupid builds on my Troll today and found a use for this wicking method. I wound up using it to tame a wild coil. Juice consumption was the least of my concerns.

See, I built a 3mm dual parallel 24g that came out to .151 ohms. As expected, the coils were absurdly hot. Just from pulsing, the deck was so hot that it damned near burned me when I went to unscrew the atty. I initially tried my usual wicking technique and couldn't vape it. Needless to say, it was scorching - throat hit from hell. I was getting 2-3 hits off of it before getting a killer dry hit (bone-dry wicks, too) and my mod was getting uncomfortably hot right from the jump. Flavor was getting nuked. Sucker was far too hot.

The scottish roll method proved very useful for this particular build. The vapor production is on par with, if not slightly thicker than a .16 dual 22g that's wicked normally, but it's a smoother, cooler vape than that build. The flavor is pretty bangin for something that's completely not a flavor build. I can also get ~12 full hits before re-dripping, which I think is reasonable.

For me, this is useful, since all I have at the moment is a mech, meaning I can't turn the power down to get a reasonably warm vape with a build like this. It turned what was an unvapable coil rig into something I really like. It's just the right compromise for this build on this device.
 
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hondo701

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So this blew up. I'm glad this worked for some of you. We are talking about 'time honored traditions' in wicking on a hobby that has been around for not very long at all. This particular method may not be for everyone, but hopefully it gets people trying something different.

I didn't post this to become the new standard. I love my drippers for the taste. I hate my drippers for the maintenance. That is why I love this method. Fixes my gripes with dripping with no downside for me.
 
Out of curiosity, I tried this method on a Lemo V2. I must say that it is working extremely well. Great flavor, cloud production, no gurgling/spitting/popping. I am running at .5ohms and around 27 watts on either my sigelei 75W or 150W TC.
 

vaportester

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The reason it works so good is beacuse it barely touch the bottom of the RDA no excessive cotton
 

Swerved

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Hmm, gonna check it out. But from how he describes the dry hits, it acts basically the same as Drago does. I don't have any Japanese squares in stock at the moment, but I do have a fresh roll of Drago so when my squares come in, I will test between the two. Should be interesting to compare.

As for the Drago, it's a bit of a pain to use at first, even chaotic. But I don't use much and when I'm out and about with my dripper, I don't drip often and I vape a pretty good bit. I often find myself having to look just from thinking it's been a while since I last dripped and it's still plenty wet, and even when dry I can't tell that much. With that said, I'm not using anything exotic for a build. Usually either dual 24 gauge or parallel 26, depending on which atty I'm using.

Hell maybe I should try this method with that stuff.. lol
 
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LA-Vapite

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I just did this in my main testing RDA (Vape Jam) using basic dual wrap 26 and I am impressed.
How does this method work in tanks ?
Currently using a heavy VG and really getting 3X more hits , and they are great flavor hits.
Juice is very dark, but my cotton is nice and white with out a dry hit
 

robot zombie

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Well now, I recently got a Sigelei 150w and it has forced me to slightly rethink my opinions on this method. After tinkering around and trying different coil diameters/wicking methods, this one's my favorite.

I'm getting really great performance using this with an 8-wrap/3mm dual 24g in my mutation x v4. Reads .34 ohms and I run it at 60 to 90 watts. It's warm and it guzzles juice, but neither are issues with this method in this particular atty. To be fair, it performs about the same with the standard method, only it's a little harsher. The biggest difference is that I don't over-drip and it never leaks, which is a problem that can be hard to avoid with bottom-airflow atties and a huge nuisance with this box.

I've gotta admit, using this trick for a somewhat high-powered vape has made a believer out of me. I think that as I get a feel for this device, I will probably find some builds and power levels that give me similar performance without the need for so much cotton, but for now, this is proving quite viable.
 

dreadacidic_mel

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this wicking method basically just saved my day. New high power mod, dripper wasnt cooperating (super tight top cap = pain in the ass to re-drip, high wattage = needing to re-drip after every other puff). Now... SUCCESS!!
VZWl37Z.jpg
 

Bean8379

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I just tried this on a steamcrave clone rda. I am using a single, 0.84ohm coil that is 6 wraps of 26g kanthal on a 2.4mm Philips. The problem I was having was very harsh hits due to popping and spitting, and little to no flavor. This method fixed all of that. I take shorter hits and get bigger clouds with more flavor. I'm very impressed with this wicking method and will soon be trying it in my Ov2 as well.
 

OneBadWolf

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I find that the sucess of this method is related to the geometry of the coil. It seems to work well for coils that have a wide diameter, and short to medium length.. It also seems to work better the lower the coil is to the deck. Its like it can wick laterly, but is too tight to wick very well vertically. It certainly seems to hold more juice when soaked, and because it is more tightly packed, is harder to burn. I'll use it in some RDAs but not others. Seems to work poorly in RTAs.
 

TF Vaping

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I was surfing around YouTube last night and came across the "sushi roll" wicking method. Its basically just making your wick in a u shape and only using 1/4 of a pad per coil. I'm seeing the same performance as Scottish roll wicking. The guy actually made a good bit of sense about it. He said when people use the Scottish method they are finally using enough cotton over the standard methods.
So the sushi roll looks like a bow tie in the coils and does the same thing in less time.

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krashkrieg

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I was surfing around YouTube last night and came across the "sushi roll" wicking method. Its basically just making your wick in a u shape and only using 1/4 of a pad per coil. I'm seeing the same performance as Scottish roll wicking. The guy actually made a good bit of sense about it. He said when people use the Scottish method they are finally using enough cotton over the standard methods.
So the sushi roll looks like a bow tie in the coils and does the same thing in less time.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Got a Link to video?

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mountainbikermark

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So this has been going around Reddit for a few days. It seems to go against everything that everyone is taught when getting into RDA/RBA. It is a way of wicking people are calling "The Scottish Roll". Basically, you roll the cotton and pack it into the coil tight, very tight. I was skeptical until it put it in my Marquis and holy crap it works. I have not had a dry hit yet, and the cotton cleans up to almost white when it is time to drip again.

This sounds simple, but has made the biggest difference in the flavor and actual vape time for me. I will be wicking like this from now on. I included a link to the video, it is not mine, but worth watching and trying. I though some people here may be interested in this. We talk a lot about coils, but wicking it probably the most important part with the least attention.


Here is how I used it last night. This required a small paperclip to feed it in since it was so tight and they are vertical coils. I also used the paperclip to spread the bottom after it was in place. Best build I have ever had on this.

Thanks for this. Next time I mage wicks for my Troll I'm gonna try this. Reading posts about it actually slowing the air flow down a smidge sounds like what I'm seeking on it without closing any side vents. Since I'm running a smaller id, I'm gonna try splitting a sheet in half instead of losing a 1/3. I've got 80 sheets of cotton and a bag of cotton balls to play with.

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A. Nuss Braun

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I think I'll have to shop a bag o'balls for trying this. Or a giant sack o'squares. o_O
That's just insane to use an entire square on one dual build.
The cotton in bottles of pills is so light, you will play hell handling it to get it thru a coil...should wick insanely..
 

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