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Frustrated Vaper About To Quit DIY! PLEASE HELP!

I just can't get my liquids to taste 'Premium' what am I missing?
I've been mixing for over a year, I started off mixing truly horrible juices, but my skills improved, the closest I've come to a 'Premium' mouth feel juice is recipes loaded with Cake Batter & Cookie etc, I've mixed recipes from all the top mixers on Reddit / VU / ELR etc, but they all still taste 'DIY' to me, they simply don't have the rounded sweetness, body & mouth feel of the 'Premium' juices. I've got an impressive range of all the top flavours, I've tried pure Sucralose powder, but that just tastes like sweetener, I've tried EM, Cotton Candy, TPA Sweeteners etc but they all just don't have the syrupy sweet body that I'm looking for, I've steeped, I've crocked, I've scoured the Internet for answers but I just keep coming up short! What is it I'm missing or doing wrong? Why can't I get my DIY juices to taste 'Premium'?

Thanks for reading, hope you can help
 

Discobob

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In your same boat my friend, I have a wall of flavorings with your same story, been buying premiums lately and about to sell all my shit before it gets too old....watching this one:)
 

pescadore

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I have tried to make several juices and ended up trashing them. I pretty much stay with my old standard Strawberry Banana now because I know that I am going to like it.
 
I buy a premium brand here in the uk called trip hammer, there are over 100 flavours, some basic, some complex, a full range, but every single flavour has this same body, a full syrupy sweetness that hits the whole mouth, it's something I just can't replicate no matter what I try, I've tried tons of top DIY recipes, not my own, but non of them have this big body flavour of the premium juices, I just don't know what I'm missing
 

Barbara E.

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Since you specifically mentioned 'well-rounded', you might want to consider combining the same flavor from different companies.
 

Neunerball

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I buy a premium brand here in the uk called trip hammer, there are over 100 flavours, some basic, some complex, a full range, but every single flavour has this same body, a full syrupy sweetness that hits the whole mouth, it's something I just can't replicate no matter what I try, I've tried tons of top DIY recipes, not my own, but non of them have this big body flavour of the premium juices, I just don't know what I'm missing
That doesn't tell us much about what brand of flavors you are using, and at what percentage.
 
That doesn't tell us much about what brand of flavors you are using, and at what percentage.

This is a nice recipe by DIY or Die
  • INW Raspberry Koncentrat - 0.5%
  • FA Fuji - 1%
  • FA Meringue - 1%
  • TFA Bav Cream - 1%
  • FW Yellow Cake - 1%
  • FA Fresh Cream - 0.5%
  • FA Cookie - 2%
  • FA Almond - 1.5%
  • FA Torrone - 0.2%
  • TFA AP (5%) - 0.5%
  • Mixed at 70vg/30pg, overnight steep
  • Recommended Temp: 425'F

But after all it still tastes 'DIY', like all other recipes I try, it doesn't have that sweet mouth feel polish of the premium juices I compare it to :-(
 

AndriaD

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Strawberry & Cream
Inawera Shisha Strawberry 15.6%
TFA DX Bavarian Cream 5.7%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 4.3%
CAP Sweet Cream 1.9%
TFA Sweetener 2.5%

Best ejuice I've ever tasted -- it's been my ADV for well over a year now.

Andria
 

Neunerball

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This is a nice recipe by DIY or Die
  • INW Raspberry Koncentrat - 0.5%
  • FA Fuji - 1%
  • FA Meringue - 1%
  • TFA Bav Cream - 1%
  • FW Yellow Cake - 1%
  • FA Fresh Cream - 0.5%
  • FA Cookie - 2%
  • FA Almond - 1.5%
  • FA Torrone - 0.2%
  • TFA AP (5%) - 0.5%
  • Mixed at 70vg/30pg, overnight steep
  • Recommended Temp: 425'F

But after all it still tastes 'DIY', like all other recipes I try, it doesn't have that sweet mouth feel polish of the premium juices I compare it to :-(
I don't know much about INW Raspberry, TFA Bavarian Cream, and FW Yellow Cake. However, in a small batch 10ml, I'd use 1.5-2% Fuji, 2.5-3% TFA Bav. Cream, 2-3% FW Yellow Cake, 0.5-1% FA Torrone. Add 1% FA Marshmallow. You might have to increment the INW Raspberry to 0.75-1%. Leave the other flavors at their original percent.
 

tony09

Member For 4 Years
I know that feel you're talking about!! Even with store bought premiums, only some seem to have it imo. I've only been mixing 4 months but have a few recipes I really like. Better than most of the store premiums, but not as good as the ones that give that feel you're talking about. I recently bought some "dirty" flavors to mix in with the clean versions I've been using to see if that helps.
 

Chris Collective

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It sounds like the line of juices you've been buying from has basically got a nice base down, then just built on it for all of his/her/their flavours.

You may never find that "special" ingredient, as I'm very sure it may well be different for everybody.. maybe with a level of generalisation. If you ever get the chance to smell a large selection of flavour concentrates, DO IT.. So much better than looking at a list or reading from a description written based on a third parties taste buds.. I don't really buy much "premium" juice, sometimes when I forget my own but I do like Element Crema, there was something in that juice that always made me go back (until I smelt it in a random flavour concentrate and could replicate it anyway).

Good luck, and congrats to whatever juice maker ruined you :)
 

AmandaD

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Interesting, I bought a ton of juice when I started vaping, but none was as good as the juice i make since I started DIY a couple of years ago (thanks to HIC mainly!)

I used to love one juice, and someone recently gave me a bottle - yuck, I can taste the sweetener in it, and now I find it unvapeable and overflavored.
 

Huckleberried

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Interesting, I bought a ton of juice when I started vaping, but none was as good as the juice i make since I started DIY a couple of years ago (thanks to HIC mainly!)

I used to love one juice, and someone recently gave me a bottle - yuck, I can taste the sweetener in it, and now I find it unvapeable and overflavored.
This is a really good point. Part of me still believes that I was so used to the taste of my fave juice prior to DIY that I didn't realize how overly flavored and overly sweetend most pre-made juice really is. Once I started mixing and using really low percentages, then tasting what was at one time really tasty to me, I found I couldn't stand it anymore. Granted, my taste buds were healing over those months, as well, but even these days, I have to reduce flavorings from what I was mixing a year ago. The majority of what I vape these days is around 8% flavoring and under.
 

AmandaD

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This is a really good point. Part of me still believes that I was so used to the taste of my fave juice prior to DIY that I didn't realize how overly flavored and overly sweetend most pre-made juice really is. Once I started mixing and using really low percentages, then tasting what was at one time really tasty to me, I found I couldn't stand it anymore. Granted, my taste buds were healing over those months, as well, but even these days, I have to reduce flavorings from what I was mixing a year ago. The majority of what I vape these days is around 8% flavoring and under.
Agreed! I used to increase the overall percentages of many recipes, but now I find I don't have to!
 

Flavor Alchemist

Member For 4 Years
Strawberry & Cream
Inawera Shisha Strawberry 15.6%
TFA DX Bavarian Cream 5.7%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 4.3%
CAP Sweet Cream 1.9%
TFA Sweetener 2.5%

Best ejuice I've ever tasted -- it's been my ADV for well over a year now.

Andria
@AndriaD .......30% flavoring......I am curious about a couple things, if you would care to share......What is your PG/VG ratio? and nicotine mg/ml?.......Do you steep that particular blend?.....and if so, for how long.............any other post mixing treatments to your blend? (cap on, cap off, breathing, etc....hot bath, time and patience, etc).......What type of equipment are you vaping with?.......Dripping or Mouth to lung?........I am interested because I am finding some interesting results with higher flavor percentages, also, and wanted to gain some insight, as I have yet to reach a 30% flavor in a recipe........and wish to experiment a little more along those lines.
 

AndriaD

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@AndriaD .......30% flavoring......I am curious about a couple things, if you would care to share......What is your PG/VG ratio? and nicotine mg/ml?.......Do you steep that particular blend?.....and if so, for how long.............any other post mixing treatments to your blend? (cap on, cap off, breathing, etc....hot bath, time and patience, etc).......What type of equipment are you vaping with?.......Dripping or Mouth to lung?........I am interested because I am finding some interesting results with higher flavor percentages, also, and wanted to gain some insight, as I have yet to reach a 30% flavor in a recipe........and wish to experiment a little more along those lines.

No problem!

What is your PG/VG ratio? and nicotine mg/ml? I use 87% PG currently; first started making that juice at 84% PG, but have had to increase PG to decrease my wheezing; VG glues my airways closed. Currently at 5mg nic; first started making that juice at 10mg. I never specify the PG/VG or nic because those are elements that need to be customized to the user's needs.

Do you steep that particular blend?.....and if so, for how long.............any other post mixing treatments to your blend? (cap on, cap off, breathing, etc....hot bath, time and patience, etc) No steeping -- though it doesn't really hit its best taste for about 3-5 days -- it's entirely vapable at time of mixing -- that was the main reason I started trying out high percentages when I started DIY, so I could tell if something was a good recipe right when I mixed it. This one's acceptable at mix; best at 3-5 days afterward; if you mix up a lot, you probably should use about 50% less sweetener because it does get stronger and sweeter over time -- when I've mixed up 60ml of this at once, after about a week I have to mix up another 10ml of it without any sweetener to add to it, to cut down the sweetness.

What type of equipment are you vaping with?.......Dripping or Mouth to lung? Both dripping AND mouth to lung -- I use an Achilles RDA, which has a very VERY tight draw. First started vaping this in a kayfun, but it gunks a LOT, causing a lot of wasted juice from the brown gunk backwashing off the coil -- that was why I went to an RDA.

Andria
 

Zamazam

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I just can't get my liquids to taste 'Premium' what am I missing?
I've been mixing for over a year, I started off mixing truly horrible juices, but my skills improved, the closest I've come to a 'Premium' mouth feel juice is recipes loaded with Cake Batter & Cookie etc, I've mixed recipes from all the top mixers on Reddit / VU / ELR etc, but they all still taste 'DIY' to me, they simply don't have the rounded sweetness, body & mouth feel of the 'Premium' juices. I've got an impressive range of all the top flavours, I've tried pure Sucralose powder, but that just tastes like sweetener, I've tried EM, Cotton Candy, TPA Sweeteners etc but they all just don't have the syrupy sweet body that I'm looking for, I've steeped, I've crocked, I've scoured the Internet for answers but I just keep coming up short! What is it I'm missing or doing wrong? Why can't I get my DIY juices to taste 'Premium'?

Thanks for reading, hope you can help
Start with 1 or 2 flavors and master that, then begin to add more flavorings.
 

bthasht

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I'm with ya buddy. I just started myself, and I feel I'm missing that sweetness with my normal purchased juices. I have a couple flavors I made that are good, but I feel they miss that punch. Maybe someone could help add punch to this:

Strawberries and creme (tpa) 2%
Banana (cap) 1%
Vanilla bean ice cream (tpa) 5%
Cheesecake Graham crust(tpa)3% I'm a Dripper. This is 20pg/80vg mix @3mg nicotine btw.

It's good, but not that pop.

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Zamazam

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I'd add 2% FA Red Touch Strawberry, cut the Vanilla bean ice cream to 3% or less
 

bthasht

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I'd add 2% FA Red Touch Strawberry, cut the Vanilla bean ice cream to 3% or less
Damn don't have it. I'll have to order it, and give that a try. Assuming leave the strawberry and creme

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
 
Most of that missing mouthfeel and sweetness is probably due to EM, sucralose, and over-flavoring. I just started DIY a couple weeks ago and I'm already starting to notice when people ask me to try some new juice they bought, all I taste is SWEET and way too much flavor. Most of the people with well respected recipes on this and other forums don't add sweetener, they let the flavors do the sweetening. Almost all the premium (price) juices are chalk full of extra EM, sucralose or stevia. The thing to remember is those big juice makers use the same exact flavors we do. So there really is no magic trick. The only difference is they buy gallons instead of ounces. The only thing that hasn't really been covered is they might be using different nic, but that shouldn't make theirs better, unless you are using really bad tasting nic.
 

kross8

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Member For 4 Years
try hitting your juice with a milk frother or mini blender for 3-5 minutes---force those flavors to become friends. i find i am getting a better mouth feel and tasty right away..and better as time goes. (i also whip store bought mixes)
 

Goodrat

Member For 4 Years
I have many flavors I bought over years and I usually hate them all and they gather dust, especially anything to do with custard. What I have settled on for the last two years is:
10ml of my 60% VG nic with 1ml Flavorshack Holy vanilla and one drop of Flavorshack Expert Caramel.
That's it. Shake and vape. When I deviate from that, I end up dumping the batch down the sink.
 
It sounds like the line of juices you've been buying from has basically got a nice base down, then just built on it for all of his/her/their flavours.

You may never find that "special" ingredient, as I'm very sure it may well be different for everybody.. maybe with a level of generalisation. If you ever get the chance to smell a large selection of flavour concentrates, DO IT.. So much better than looking at a list or reading from a description written based on a third parties taste buds.. I don't really buy much "premium" juice, sometimes when I forget my own but I do like Element Crema, there was something in that juice that always made me go back (until I smelt it in a random flavour concentrate and could replicate it anyway).

Good luck, and congrats to whatever juice maker ruined you :)

What kind of base could that be for example? What kind of ingredients/flavours go into a base?
 

Chris Collective

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What kind of base could that be for example? What kind of ingredients/flavours go into a base?
I've never tried the mentioned juice so couldn't say for sure. For example you could have a cake or custard type base where you switch fruits out to make various versions, or similar. Whatever works for you really, I've gone through stages where I put the same few concentrates in almost every mix I've done as background flavours.. just as I like them in a vape.
 

AndriaD

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I find that TFA Vanilla Swirl, TFA DX Bavarian Cream, and CAP Sweet Cream, make a good base; change up the proportions of the 3, to get different sorts of tastes -- go heavy on the Bavarian/Vanilla Swirl to get a custardy taste; heavier on the Sweet Cream for just a background creamy taste. Also, if you want a whipped cream flavor, the TFA Whipped Cream is good, but really light; add some CAP Sweet Cream to it, to make it more authentic-tasting.

TFA Sweetener is really the best I've tried; it's sucralose, but somehow they make it not have that icky artificial whang.

Andria
 

bthasht

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I find that TFA Vanilla Swirl, TFA DX Bavarian Cream, and CAP Sweet Cream, make a good base; change up the proportions of the 3, to get different sorts of tastes -- go heavy on the Bavarian/Vanilla Swirl to get a custardy taste; heavier on the Sweet Cream for just a background creamy taste. Also, if you want a whipped cream flavor, the TFA Whipped Cream is good, but really light; add some CAP Sweet Cream to it, to make it more authentic-tasting.

TFA Sweetener is really the best I've tried; it's sucralose, but somehow they make it not have that icky artificial whang.

Andria
Awesome tips. I'll be trying those for sure. Thank you for that

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AndriaD

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Awesome tips. I'll be trying those for sure. Thank you for that

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Dunno how you feel about diketones -- that situation is why I use the DX Bavarian instead of the original -- but the DX Bavarian really isn't good if you use more than 6% of it in a mix; it's got that butyric acid taste, which is pretty awful when you really taste it, but if you keep the DX Bavarian at 6% or less, and couple it with Vanilla Swirl, it does make a really good custard flavor, without diketones.

Andria
 

bthasht

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Dunno how you feel about diketones -- that situation is why I use the DX Bavarian instead of the original -- but the DX Bavarian really isn't good if you use more than 6% of it in a mix; it's got that butyric acid taste, which is pretty awful when you really taste it, but if you keep the DX Bavarian at 6% or less, and couple it with Vanilla Swirl, it does make a really good custard flavor, without diketones.

Andria
I'm still very very much a newbie in the whole mixing juice thing. I do know I love custard, ice cream, and Danish flavors the most. So I will be trying that mixture for sure.

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AndriaD

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I'm still very very much a newbie in the whole mixing juice thing. I do know I love custard, ice cream, and Danish flavors the most. So I will be trying that mixture for sure.

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That strawberry & cream recipe I posted up above was my very first "from scratch" that turned out really well, and it's so good, I've vaped it daily since about mid-Dec 2014, for a long time it was the ONLY thing I vaped, though now I also have a blueberry one that I vape a little -- the strawberry is still my main ADV.

The tips I've read, for making a really good juice that you can actually taste right when you mix it: 1) use at least 25% total flavoring; 2) use 50% "main" flavor (like the strawberry), and 50% supporting flavors -- the cream/vanilla/sweetener base. I applied that when I created the strawberry & cream recipe, and I was flat out amazed at how well it turned out. But that was how I figured out about the DX Bavarian not being good over 6%; at first I had used a little more of it, but had to back off it a little and add the Vanilla Swirl, and THAT was a dynamic combo.

Andria
 

bthasht

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Only strawberry I have currently is strawberries and creme tfa :(

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bthasht

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That strawberry & cream recipe I posted up above was my very first "from scratch" that turned out really well, and it's so good, I've vaped it daily since about mid-Dec 2014, for a long time it was the ONLY thing I vaped, though now I also have a blueberry one that I vape a little -- the strawberry is still my main ADV.

The tips I've read, for making a really good juice that you can actually taste right when you mix it: 1) use at least 25% total flavoring; 2) use 50% "main" flavor (like the strawberry), and 50% supporting flavors -- the cream/vanilla/sweetener base. I applied that when I created the strawberry & cream recipe, and I was flat out amazed at how well it turned out. But that was how I figured out about the DX Bavarian not being good over 6%; at first I had used a little more of it, but had to back off it a little and add the Vanilla Swirl, and THAT was a dynamic combo.

Andria
This 25% total is for tank juice though correct? I'm a Dripper, and usually run 20pg/80vg mixes

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AndriaD

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The blueberry one that i vape sometimes, it was actually my first effort doing a little DIY, actually modifying a "bought" ejuice just slightly -- it was my first ADV after I abandoned tobacco flavors; sweet-vapes.com Blueberry Muffin -- which is really good in its own right, but to me tastes a little too "sharp", and not really sweet enough --

Sweet-Vapes.com's Blueberry Muffin 80%
TFA Banana Nut Bread 4%
FA Flash 2%
TFA Sweetener 1%

I also add Flash to my strawberry & cream, since I still want a pretty substantial TH.

I use this calculator, which makes it really easy to use pre-made juice as ingredients.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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This 25% total is for tank juice though correct? I'm a Dripper, and usually run 20pg/80vg mixes

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I also use RDAs exclusively, though mine have a really tight draw, for MtL vaping -- Achilles RDAs. Can't really use a tank with that strawberry recipes, it's such a heavy gunker -- wastes too much juice.

Andria
 

R3alJim Shady

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Interesting. I've been making my own juice for a couple of years now and my flavoring only accounts for about 10-15% total in a batch. I've had friends and employees/regulars comment on how I should start my own line (I don't think it's THAT good lol), but I feel like my juice can hang with a lot of the "premium" offerings that I've tried. Maybe try cutting the flavoring a down... You might find that they pop more...

Another suggestion is getting to know your flavoring a better. For example, I have a sour strawberry watermelon that is my ADV. I like a nice balance of the two fruits and in order to get that I have to use more watermelon flavoring than strawberry bc it's naturally a weaker flavor when combined with the strawberry. Make sense? I think it's less about how much flavoring and more about how the flavors blend and interact with each other. Make sense?


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bthasht

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I also use RDAs exclusively, though mine have a really tight draw, for MtL vaping -- Achilles RDAs. Can't really use a tank with that strawberry recipes, it's such a heavy gunker -- wastes too much juice.

Andria
Interesting. I've been staying under 10-15% with my total flavoring. Perhaps this is why I'm missing that punch?

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Chrispdx

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I see a lot of cap and tfa/tpa flavor selections. Have you tried out some of the FA flavors? Sure, FA won't automatically make you juices tast "premium" and for that mater nothing is exact. We all have a preference and very high expectations. However, I find FA to be very very tasty.

Here is an example. Just prior to DIY I purchased a green apple juice. Testing it out in the shop it was good, purchased a bottle and it tasted weaker than what I had in the shop. Did a bit of heat steeping and it helped alittle but it wasn't very good. In DIY I have found I am in love with Fuji Apple FA. It tastes better than the premium that I had, but needs a touch more Apple...not sure which it will be, but I am sure it will be another Apple from another brand to give me alittle more Apple in the inhale. Everything else is spot on and totally better than everything I have tried.

This also includes white peach FA, strawberry FA (with tfa ripe strawberry), kiwi FA, and ooohh banana FA (with tfa banana). All of this include basic combinations of Vienna cream, fresh cream, caramel, coconut, sometimes custard FA or cap, graham cracker, or others to round out the flavor and mouth feel. All of which knowledge gained from the threads here.
 

AndriaD

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Interesting. I've been staying under 10-15% with my total flavoring. Perhaps this is why I'm missing that punch?

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Could be -- or, maybe sweetener? Actually TFA sweetener was the first DIY ingredient I ever used; if I add it to some pre-made juices (like that Blueberry Muffin) they immediately tasted a lot brighter and stronger. Kinda like sugar in tea -- to me, unsweetened tea tastes like "bitter water" -- add some sugar, and I love the stuff!

People seem pretty well split on whether they like strong or weak flavoring -- the ones that want strong, a lot of pre-mades are kinda bland; the ones that want weak, a lot of pre-mades are over-flavored.

Andria
 

bthasht

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Yeah I don't use sweetener at all. Perhaps I'll add 1% or so

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AndriaD

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I'd recommend starting with 1-3 drops before going into percents.

Yeah I was kinda thinking that too... or maybe start with .5% -- it easy to add more if you want, but once it's in there, you can't get it back out. :D

Andria
 

RonJS

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I buy a premium brand here in the uk called trip hammer, there are over 100 flavours, some basic, some complex, a full range, but every single flavour has this same body, a full syrupy sweetness that hits the whole mouth, it's something I just can't replicate no matter what I try, I've tried tons of top DIY recipes, not my own, but non of them have this big body flavour of the premium juices, I just don't know what I'm missing

Have you tried MTS Vape Wizard?
___
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___

Ron
---
"Spaghetti can be eaten most successfully if you inhale it like a vacuum cleaner."- Sophia Loren
 

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