18650 Capacity; MXJO vs. Samsung, etc. (help)

Discussion in 'Battery Junkies / Chargers' started by roiikkata, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    So I have a bunch of the 3000 mah silver flat top yellow bottom 18650 batteries and just got the Voopoo DRAG from a local shop. I moved from the iStick Pico in hopes of a longer battery life, more space for my tanks, drippers, etc. .. Basically more headroom.

    Are the MXJO "silver top" batteries any less, capacity/length of use before charge-wise than something with another brand like Samsung or those purple 18650 ones I see all the time? Or is MXJO pretty legit in terms of holding to their standards and what-not.

    I do need that 30/35A high drain like I have, understand that the 18650s don't go above 3000 mah, etc. etc. ..

    Just wondering (based on your experience ONLY please. not off the top of your head or just if you "think so" or "possibly") if I replace all my MXJOs to something like Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, or those purple ones I keep seeing, or whatever, something with a more "standardized" brand yet, if I can get more time of use before I have to go and charge them again ..

    Just looking for some first-hand answers.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
     
  2. Countrypami

    Countrypami The Link Ninja Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Vendor Employee VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Live Host

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    Welcome to the VU! :)
    Your post has been moved to the appropriate forum.
     
  3. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    My fault! Thank you.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
     
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  4. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    OK first off Samsung or LG. Or whatever else mooch has said is good to go.
    At a min. 20 amp CDR is what you are after 2000-3000 mah.

    Efest, mxjo and IMR are rewraps.

    Check Liion wholesale, Illum supply or even 101vapes.
     
  5. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    I like to stay away from clones, etc. so I think re-wraps are going to be a no-go, now. I keep hearing they are re-wraps.

    Price isn't too much of an issue ..

    I ask this because it seems like every time I hear otherwise "oh, these are fine" about MXJO, IMR and so on it sounds like a sales pitch, kind of. Or I could just be easing the conversation about it too much and it's time to look more seriously into the other better made brands.

    Re-wraps though, huh. What would they be re-wraps of .. ?
     
  6. IMFire3605

    IMFire3605 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    With 18650's really you should only stay with the Big 4 brands that actually make the damned batteries everyone else re-wraps, 1) an Authentic LG HG2 is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a re-wrapped, marked up in price MXJO or any other re-wrap brand, 2) they over spec the actual manufacturer specs on the amp rating using the 1/2 second pulse discharge as their amp rating on the label where the actual battery itself has half that as its actual continuous discharge rate (CDR), example 2500mah 40amp max, that battery is at best a 2500mah 20amp CDR battery. The Big 4 for 18650s are LG, Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic/Sanyo, everyone else buys from them, and the kicker, they buy the batteries that LG and the others didn't pass A Bin spec muster and didn't want to put their own label on, really want to trust your health to a company that lies to you??? If you are asking which is the better battery at a vape shop that carries a lot of re-wrap brands, MXJO, AWT, IMRen, Brillipower, etc, they are trying to get a markup sale on you if they really push the re-wrap brand and not the name brand Big 4, example cost of say a Samsung 30Q 3000mah 20amp at Liionwholesale is about $6USD, but for about $8USD the vape shop gets an Efest at wholesale then doubles that and charges you $16 to $20USD, see the economics of which is the best battery in their greedy eyes?
     
  7. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    That actually lines up pretty well with my own previous experience and makes sense for what it is.
    Well .. minus the greedy part. I personally think they're just uneducated about their own product enough to call it a day and just settle for a sales pitch instead .. ..

    So, a re-wrap has a chance of it being mis-labeled, somewhat. Got it. I'd rather even spend a little more to know for sure that 30 or 35A draw is 30 or 35A draw.

    What actually peaked my question is just that. Funny you mention it as that seems like the answer to this. I bought the high amp draw MXJO silver & yellow ones "so I wouldn't have overheating problems" I was sold on them by or lead to believe. I had overheating problems. The 35A draw / watts I was using / draw length wasn't matching up to my standards. So here lies that question.

    But, if I some from these "big 4" I keep seeing then that's the solution. All I have to do is find something high draw enough and I'm set.

    Going to finish my MXJO collection with 2 more then look into some other types by these 4 others. MXJO works alright.

    They say "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
    I say "if it isn't broke don't fix it. but if you CAN make it even better, then DO SO."

    mod life.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    roiikkata and IMFire3605 like this.
  9. IMFire3605

    IMFire3605 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Just remember even with the Big 4, the highest actual true Continuous Discharge Rated batteries on the market are LG's HB 2, 4, and 6 at only 30amps True CDR, but 1500mah. 18650 battery technology currently can't get past having higher output (amps but sacrificing mah) or longer runtime (mah sacrificing max amps output), or they have to balance the two to the best they can engineer a battery. Thus the reason I say most re-wrap companies lie about a battery's true output potential, it is a marketing sales gimmick, and yes, a lot of vape shop businesses don't do enough research, they get a basic knowledge and role the dice. YMMV, just keep it in mind though.
     
  10. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    Ohh, I see now. That's why the lower mAh 18650s have higher output. They're just sacraficing mAh to make it higher output.

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  11. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Yes and no. The electric charge (expressed in mAh, or milliamp-hours) is not the only factor that determines the runtime of a battery. It also depends on volts. That's why you have to convert the electric charge to energy (expressed in Wh, or watt-hours). watt-hours is equal to milliamp-hours times volts divided by 1000. So how many volts does your electronics device get from your battery when you vape on it? The answer is it depends on a multitude of other different factors. As a direct result from this, higher mAh does not necessarily always imply a longer runtime. Further, the performance of an electronics device is also─at least to some certain degree─dependent of how the voltage of the battery fluctuates whilst current is drawn from the battery, and, depending on the characteristics of the device, a poor choice of battery may in fact not only hamper the performance of the device, but also fuck up the efficiency of the device causing the device to run hot as well as causing the runtime to become equally as fucked up as the guy who actually failed to read the part of the user manual that clearly states what batteries you need to use (no, not pointing at you here; it's only an inside joke).
     
  12. Jon@LiionWholesale

    [email protected] Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Just keep in mind theVTC6 wear out quicker so the 30Q is actually better after some cycles. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ts-which-lasts-longer-vtc6-30q-or-hg2.807131/
     
  13. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    The ratio thing, huh. Got it.
    I tend to stay a tiny bit below the "best" one so maybe this 30Q is the best bet, next. I vape alot, so if I'm able to get a better balance of longevity with more performance, then I'm all for it.
    What is a 30Q? The Samsung one, right? I thought I'd heard of it before.
    So all in all, if I start getting these Samsung 30Q ones, they'll be an over-all better performance than the MXJO half yellow half silver "35A" ones, right? The 30Q you say is 20A draw. And what I get from it the MXJO ones I'm using, you guys are saying are less than or about the same draw as the Samsung? I don't doubt it. Just wondering what all the fuss is I keep hearing about these Samsung, LG, etc. and nothing about the purple or yellow ones any more like I used to hear about all the time. My MXJOs say 35A on them ..
     
  14. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    That's only if you really stress them a lot... in which case the VTC5A would be a better choice than BOTH the VTC6 AND the 30Q, anyway in the first place. Because, well... if you really don't want your battery to wear out quick, then you really don't want to really stress your battery... plain simple.

    EDIT: And besides, if you are stressing your battery so heavily by vaping, then the voltage sag of the 30Q will be so much bigger that, as a result from that, you won't be getting a longer runtime when compared to using the VTC5A instead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  15. IMFire3605

    IMFire3605 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    We call them the Big 4, because they are the only 4 manufacturers that actually make 18650 batteries, there are others from like China and such, but all the high end high amp 18650s are made by the Big 4 and everyone else like Efest, MXJO, etc which don't have their own battery manufacturing plants buy from.

    Which would you trust, the direct source or the guy that bought his stock second hand from someone else on a wholesale pallete??
     
  16. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    At the consumer level you can't buy batteries directly from the source. These rewraps that you mention are all also manufactured by the Big 4... it's just that, usually (but certainly not always) the rewraps perform slightly worse when compared to the non-rewrap version of the exact same battery, the latter of which has been "cherry picked" by the manufacturer in such a way that you can expect it to perform up to one or two percent better than a rewrap version. Also usually, the non-rewrap version not only performs slightly better, but is actually cheaper.

    Mooch explains about different grades of the same batteries:
    Code:
    https://youtu.be/jg1M7QQVIAQ?t=475
     
  17. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    There are no 3000 mah 18650 over 20 amps.
    There are no 18650 batteries over 30 amps.
     
  18. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    Ahhh, I see. Tight!
     
  19. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    Well, direct source. But I'm not one to complain too much about re-wraps unless they are completely not working like those "fire" button top ones I've tried lol
     
  20. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    well put. Ok that puts things into perspective now.
    I'm not unknowledgeable to how electricity works (at all) so that makes much sense all wrapped into one. Thanks!
     
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  21. roiikkata

    roiikkata New Member

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    Big 4 huh. Ok I'll remember that. Let me see if I can get them off the top of my head yet. .. Samsung, LG, Panasonic and SONY (my fave).
     
  22. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    This is per Mooch the battery emperor.
     

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