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2015 Prediction: Decline of Box Mods
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anendeloflorien
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I agree with your basic point, that the race to get more power is going to slow down, physical limitations on the size of a battery cell are going to stall that fast. However, I don't think the end of the box mod is nigh, I think the next step box mod manufacturers need to take is in improving the quality and reliability of their products (better chips, increased flexibility on power outputs, etc...). There are a lot of people getting into vaping and I don't think the majority of them want to deal with the potential hazards of a mechanical tube mod, yes they're easily overcome but most people want something they don't have to think about.
VapedCrusader
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Great article as usual and I agree 1000% ...
500 watts is just absurd and anyone vaping that high and thinks they are cool is terribly wrong...
500 watts is just absurd and anyone vaping that high and thinks they are cool is terribly wrong...
VapedCrusader
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China won't listen.. they will continue to keep pushing out new mods without going back and fixing their old ones.. and sadly - people want new shiny things and it seems most people will pick a new mod or some unidentified box mod on FastTech over a 6 months-1 year old device that has been revamped and fixed of issues.
Panther1911
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I can agree with this.
I have several mech tubes and I like them, but I use my sigelei150W the most
I'm not saying that box mods will go away, Unc. There's just nowhere left for them to go but down. When you stop to think about it...what's left for box mods?
While there are some good devices out there, a lot of these things are just crap. Quality needs to improve, and prices need to come down. I think the rise in popularity of box mods is because they've always been pushing for bigger and better, and people just have to have the latest devices. Once that wears off, they will level off.
Just my $0.02 worth.
More power? Nay. 500w already on the market (WTF). No one is going to use all of that. 150w is pushing it, even for the most diehard cloud chaser.
More tech? Not really. Touch screens have already been done, and really good touch screen tech is too expensive for something like this. All that's left here is onboard memory and apps that are compatible with your phone. Be able to adjust temp, check # of hits, etc. from an app.
More tech? Not really. Touch screens have already been done, and really good touch screen tech is too expensive for something like this. All that's left here is onboard memory and apps that are compatible with your phone. Be able to adjust temp, check # of hits, etc. from an app.
While there are some good devices out there, a lot of these things are just crap. Quality needs to improve, and prices need to come down. I think the rise in popularity of box mods is because they've always been pushing for bigger and better, and people just have to have the latest devices. Once that wears off, they will level off.
Just my $0.02 worth.
I think 150w is a bit much, but people use it. That is about all anyone needs. I would like to see more compact triple battery mods that have 150w or less. I don't see the box mod going anywhere. To many of us have grown to love them. I have a dual battery mech box and a IPV2. I can not imagine going back to a tube.
VapedCrusader
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Exactly - box mods will never go away.. but I think the crap mods that keep coming out need to be addressed ASAP and these companies need to stop doing rush jobs and spend a little longer perfecting things before releasing just to compete with others.. in the end this only hurts a company's reputation and leaves a bad taste in people's mouths when they release the next one. I think anything over 100$ for any mod is unnecessary but thats just me.. Unless its going to last years and years but most of us don't use a mod for that long no matter how good it is anyways - quickly onto something better and newer
There was a time when people thought 64kb of ram would be more then anybody needed as well.
It is not what people 'need' that drives market sales.
It is what people 'want' and are willing to pay for.
VapedCrusader
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Thats a little far of a reach for a comparison.. You can always use more space to store data for a computer (which serves a very useful purpose).. wheres the logic for vaping? What purpose would someone need for 500 watts or more?
Also - what would drive more sales for a company? selling a 500 watt device / pushing out a shitty mod every month that no one ends up buying because it falls apart / or taking some extra time, selling a solid built, reliable 50-100 watt mod and providing ample QC testing and a good warranty
we as a community need to start demanding better made devices and stop letting companies continue to screw us out of money by rushing mods, and then releasing another version 2 weeks later and expecting that we will buy another one.. it's bullshit and @V4P3R eMAG is totally correct in his evaluation of the marketplace right now
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anendeloflorien
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Exactly. Who knows what the next big innovation in vaping tech is going to be?
Panther1911
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i also have a rDNA40 on order....i can see temp control becoming more common
If it works. A lot of problems w/ that DNA 40 board.
Panther1911
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I think one large factor in the popularity of box mods over mech mods are the safety features and that the vape is consistent through out the life of the battery.
True. Fortunately, to date, my rdna 40 is working flawlessly--knock on wood. As stated in your article, it's getting crazy with mod's in relation to watts: 200-500 watts. Really? Like you said most of us don't go above 30 watts, including me. Quality is the next step... at least for me. I want a dna40 mod with the quality of a Provari. I still have my Provari 2.0 that I got when they first came out at the end of 2010 and it works without question after being dropped numerous times on tile, cement, blacktop, etc.
Valid points, but at the end of the day, a company will make something if somebody will buy it.
As long as people are buying mods that offer 200+ watts, they will continue to be made. Regardless of how shitty they are.
Remember, the only thing most companies care about is making money, not whether or not their product lasts a long time or if people will make use of all the features it offers. They only care if somebody is willing to buy. If anything, they might release the shitty product, then when sales decrease due to it breaking so fast, will just switch to a new design, then the process just repeats over and over. As long as they make money they will continue what they are doing.
A mod that lasts for 2+ years is not GOOD for Chinese manufactures. They rely on selling quantity, not quality. You will never get something more durable that something built by yourself.
Box mods will never die. They will always outsell tube mods.
The next thing will be buyer specified build qualities. Buyers having the ability to customize their mods they buy. As in picking buttons, colors, boards, ect.
We can "demand" all day long, that we want "better" devices. You are still gonna get the same high production, low quality mods. No one will PAY for quality.
VapedCrusader
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you are part of the problem sir
if no one buys products from say cloupor.. they will either have to live with a huge profit loss and not care, or fix their shitty business model.. it's a 2 way street - companies die all the time for taking their customers for granted and not listening.. the e-cig industry is no different.. its the community that dictates how things progress..
why do you think box mods are so popular now? because the community wanted them..
and tube mods were always the most popular until recently.. you can't know the future of vaping with how things change so drastically so lets be realistic - next year box mods could be the least popular type and there could be triangle or rectangle mods that people hyped about lol..
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VapedCrusader
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the crazy high wattage devices will start to taper off over the next year - just watch..
realistically how many 500watts device do you think are really being sold? compared to say the istick 30w or 50w? the demand is not as high as you might think for these sort of devices.. 100watts is more than enough power needed by 95% of vapors - theres really no need for anything more.. and what about if the FDA hammer comes down? Do you really think those mods are going to be as predominant if there are regulations put in place? There are too many unknown variables to consider right now.. only time will tell
Cigmod VonToker
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In our store tube mods both regulated and mechs far out sell box mods with the exception of the isticks. The only thing that sells slower than box mods (even MPV sales have slowed) is the 26650 stuff. The margin is slim on most all mods so they tie up money and waste space that can be used for more profitable things people really want or other low margin items that turn over fast. So much new stuff is coming out so fast that most of it has a very short window to be sold before is over shadowed by newer versions or some other new device. Things like Vamos may be old hat but they still sell well and don't cost an arm and a leg to stock or for a customer to purchase. Those are the kind of things we likes to see. Merchandise that can be stocked with confidence and turned over quickly. Box mods are really cool but for my store they are slow moving with a low margin so they suck from a business stand point. Some shops near us are already discounting some box mods to almost cost that have only been out a month and are still not moving them. I'm glad we have kept our inventory very shallow on these things. The Vape industry is growing fast but those wanting to capitalize on it are growing even faster. Vape gear, Juice Makers, Vape shops both on line and B&M are either in a bubble or entering the bubble stage and a lot of devices, shops and suppliers are going to fade out in the not too distant future and then probably fast. As far as FDA restrictions go there are many people set to operate in a black market if it comes to that. Fuck the FDA.The Market is what matters and it will go on and thrive as long as the market for vape and vape gear exists.
you are part of the problem sir
if no one buys products from say cloupor.. they will either have to live with a huge profit loss and not care, or fix their shitty business model.. it's a 2 way street - companies die all the time for taking their customers for granted and not listening.. the e-cig industry is no different.. its the community that dictates how things progress..
why do you think box mods are so popular now? because the community wanted them..
and tube mods were always the most popular until recently.. you can't know the future of vaping with how things change so drastically so lets be realistic - next year box mods could be the least popular type and there could be triangle or rectangle mods that people hyped about lol..
Lol. Part of what problem? I'm not making or designing what comes out of China.
I know what it will take to choke a company turning out shit, choke them out of the market. But the problem is, ALL companies over there are turning out too much shit. So WHO do we turn to? Everything coming out of China lives by the model " Over promise and under deliver".
Box mods are popular because of the regulated power delivery. Because of battery capacity. Because of ergonomics. And a box mod doesn't look like you are carrying around a damn Dildo.
Tube mods were popular because of the POWER you could draw out of them. Look at the explosion of the unregulated box mods. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is making them in their garages now. People WANT more power. There are two kinds of vapers. Those that vape with pen type devices and are satisfied with that. And those who want more from their vape. Of those that want more, I believe is a even split of those who use under 30 watts and those above that mark.
Only someone foolish would buy a 30 watt device and run it 25-30 watts all the time. You are taxing your equipment MUCH harder than you need to. Using that much power, upgrade to a 100+ watt device and be kinder to their device.
UncleRJ
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I'm not saying that box mods will go away, Unc. There's just nowhere left for them to go but down. When you stop to think about it...what's left for box mods?
More power? Nay. 500w already on the market (WTF). No one is going to use all of that. 150w is pushing it, even for the most diehard cloud chaser.
More tech? Not really. Touch screens have already been done, and really good touch screen tech is too expensive for something like this. All that's left here is onboard memory and apps that are compatible with your phone. Be able to adjust temp, check # of hits, etc. from an app.
While there are some good devices out there, a lot of these things are just crap. Quality needs to improve, and prices need to come down. I think the rise in popularity of box mods is because they've always been pushing for bigger and better, and people just have to have the latest devices. Once that wears off, they will level off.
Just my $0.02 worth.
I agree with you. Especially when you mentioned a better/higher quality build.
And a few refinements such as well rounded corners, faster built in charging and magnetic doors for all!
As far as Apps are concerned, IMHO just somthing else that can go wrong with the device and not necessary unless you are really concerned with the length of your vapes and how many you have in a day. Me, I just want to enjoy mine!
VapedCrusader
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So what your saying is if you buy a 30 watt device and run it at 30 watts - you are a fool? Hmm.. good to know.. Must be A LOT of fools in this community lol
Yes, that IS what I am saying. If you buy anything (electrical or mechanical) and use it at it's highest rated limits all the time, you ruin it pretty fast.
The new MVP 30 watt IS the future of box mods....No power hungry entry into the scene as some bicker about...Innokin chose to build a better quality 30w mod over run of the mill copys and clones using the same ol chips with more power.
Look for innokin to take the lead in regulated mods.
Look for innokin to take the lead in regulated mods.
Leader of what "faction" of vapers? None of the 30 watt devices are something I will use. I now have and will always use, 100+ watt devices.
People serious about vaping are in two camps. Under 30 watts (about half) and over 30 watts (the remainder).
I think those users under 30 watts are going to need manufactures to build better devices. Too many of those in that faction are using 25 or more watts. These 30 watt devices are going to need to be built better, to accommodate those using near max or at max power output. Maybe some of the makers you mentioned, are building tough mods. I know I have NOT heard on person say a MVP has let them down.
But remember, many vapers are the kind of people that WANT something new. They want to be the first to try out new stuff coming down the pipe. You only need to see the popularity of pre-sales, to see it's existence.
I do not see something wrong with people wanting lower wattage devices. It's not my bag, but I am not the whole market.
I think mod makers should be PUSHING battery manufactures to make better batteries. This innovation is a MUCH needed addition to vaping. One that seems is left basically unchanged.
Panther1911
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YES!
Great article , but looking at whats around now it seems like the box mod is here to stay . It also looks like the day of the $ 200.00 device for the most part is over . For the first time , a lot of whats new is at the lower end of the price scale . Maybe some notice ,... sell at the high end and in 30 days clones come out and they sell half of what they did . Sell at a lower price and more are sold and it's not worth cloning .
The Clouper Mini has shown us that potential hazards are evident even with supposedly "safe" regulated mods. I think at the end of the day, if you give a chimp a gun...someone is going to die.
I mean in general ,a leader..The battery may not replaceable but what 18650 can put out 3800mah?
Innokin also designed a much better chip and applied what people were asking for in a mod in general.
The fact they chose 30watts shows its not about trying to win some wattage war and more so putting out a better 30w device.
With this new chip im sure higher wattage will be in the future but they are in no way concerned more about power than anything else..They want quality devices in all power levels they choose to provide and have proven themselves thus far in doing so.
A battery does not "put out" MaH any more that an automobile puts out fuel capacity...or a computer puts out ram.
If you mean leader in general.....
I honestly think Sigelei is that. I don't think a mod maker should be making a chip set, in general. They should let chip experts do that. Only giving the chip makers ideas of what they want out of a chip set.
I see nothing wrong if they DO make a chip. I just think as a manufacture, you can't be everything. You have to rely on other experts to do their part.
YIHI is an expert, IMO. They make solid chip sets.
I'm not saying that box mods will go away, Unc. There's just nowhere left for them to go but down. When you stop to think about it...what's left for box mods?
More power? Nay. 500w already on the market (WTF). No one is going to use all of that. 150w is pushing it, even for the most diehard cloud chaser.
More tech? Not really. Touch screens have already been done, and really good touch screen tech is too expensive for something like this. All that's left here is onboard memory and apps that are compatible with your phone. Be able to adjust temp, check # of hits, etc. from an app.
While there are some good devices out there, a lot of these things are just crap. Quality needs to improve, and prices need to come down. I think the rise in popularity of box mods is because they've always been pushing for bigger and better, and people just have to have the latest devices. Once that wears off, they will level off.
Just my $0.02 worth.
The big push as I see it is all the bells and whistles in a box mod, plus making them out of wood or more exotic materials. The uber high watt mods only have a tiny, tiny market base. Build a nice 150W walnut box mod with curves and a sx350 chip, people will buy it. Build a programmable box mod via android or an iPhone, people will buy it. The crap box mods will die off, I think Cloupor needs to end it's craptastic box mods and do something else.
When $50 tube mods with great switches and low voltage drop are made in America, vapers will buy them. I bought a used naval brass Lab mod with the 18650 extender ring for $60 from a buddy who bought it new, but didn't like the side fire button. He paid $180 new 3 months prior. Ultra, Ultra low voltage drop, plus it just kicks ass with a big dripper at .17 Ohms. If mod makers want to regain the market, they'd better think twice about charging $200 for a metal tube with a switch.
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Sorry, I will not comment any more.You're splitting hairs Friar.
I know what he meant.
Then don't give guns to chimps, give them to Orangutans.
I think VW box mods are alot safer than mechs..that said we had two incidents recently here in San Diego where a single tube 18650 mech blew up causing injury and property damage...I've never heard of a VW device blowing up...these have safety features you can only hope for in a mech...so from a safety point of view I believe the VW box mods are here to stay, even the high powered ones...
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Apparently you've been living under a rock. The Cloupor Mini has accounted for dozens of meltdowns in the past few months.
Yeah??
You say meltdown. I say blown up...I'm not going waste my time debating with which is MORE dangerous, and which has caused the MOST injuries to date.. despite what you say......
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Yeah.
Mech mods are perfectly safe when used properly. No mech mod has ever blown up when it was being used in the manner in which it was supposed to be used. And that's kind of the point here. Operator error in mech mods versus faulty craftsmanship in box mods. From a quality standpoint, there's really nothing that can go wrong with a mech mod. It's a metal tube with a couple of contact points. If a mech mod blows up, it's because someone did something stupid with it, like use a 0.10 coil with a crappy battery.
That's not a product issue. That's natural selection at work.
Well thats just it..."YIHI" is making a chip giving popular names a good rep...What does sig actually make that is so high quality people will pay a shit load of money for them? ...The point is, Innokin didnt just throw someone elses chip in a box and call it there own like the rest do.
Despite innokin using a non tradition replacement battery option, they choose extremely high quality batteries none the less...Lipo batteries are way ahead in terms of compact power sources and you can get single cell lipo with well over what any single 18650 can dish out. (mah and amps.)
So is segelei really a leader..meh...If you had millions to spend you could become a household popular name as well using other peoples products but putting your name on it..*shrugs.
Me, ill spend my money with the ones who deserve it.
vaperature
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Don't let this guy get to you, smacksy. He thinks he's always right and anyone who challenges him is "living under a rock" or is a "troll" or is "butt hurt." Just ignore this guy or he'll go on and on for 30 pages senselessly arguing with you that mech mods are safer than regulated mods.
Why don't you just fuck off, you worthless fucking drunk. I haven't said Jack Shit to your dumb ass.
Go sit back down at the kiddie table where you fucking belong, bitch.
vaperature
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Wasn't even talking about you. I was talking to smacksy who was talking to V4P3R. Good grief. If they ever make a movie about a vaper who needs an exorcism it's going to star you.
Yeah, I see where you are coming from. Not saying Innokin is a bad manufacture.
Sigeleie may not make the chips, but they build a tough box with features most people want. I'm just likely to never be sold on non replaceable batteries. Too much experience with batteries in general. I go through 2 a year generally in my cell phones. Some of the new phones have non replaceable batteries, and you toss the phone when the batt shits out.
You're right, you didn't. Sure seems to me you fap yourself every time he posts. I'm kinda tired of you stalking him around and running your mouth. You even start your own dumb ass little blog, in hopes of attracting attention to your damn self.
YOU seem to be the only one having a problem with Anthony. So the issue is YOU, not him.
vaperature
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Oh, a V4P3R fan boy, eh? How hilarious. Vaporacle.com has been live since about January 2014, so how exactly did I "start" a blog in response to V4P3R that's only been around a few months? Lol. And you're not the boss of me. I'll comment wherever I want to comment. I wasn't even talking to you or about you and you're frothing at the mouth like you have rabies.
Frothing at the mouth? Nope.
Irritated because half the loud mouth, keyboard big shots would NEVER talk to or act like this face to face? Yes.
From the safety behind the keyboard, little kiddies think they are tough and run their mouths. Knowing full well, had they spoke like that to people face to face, they would have no teeth left and a new mud hole stomped in their ass.
Fanboy? Nope. But I think Anthony writes good articles and cares about what he does. At least they don't look like some shit smeared on the bathroom wall, like the articles at vaporacle.
Irritated because half the loud mouth, keyboard big shots would NEVER talk to or act like this face to face? Yes.
From the safety behind the keyboard, little kiddies think they are tough and run their mouths. Knowing full well, had they spoke like that to people face to face, they would have no teeth left and a new mud hole stomped in their ass.
Fanboy? Nope. But I think Anthony writes good articles and cares about what he does. At least they don't look like some shit smeared on the bathroom wall, like the articles at vaporacle.