Alien 220w

[Ctenney700r]

I recently got an alien 220 watt mod.
I bought a pair of IMREN 18650 batteries. And I was wondering if they are good batteries for this mod or should I got with a Sony vtc6 or any other battery? Currently using the smok tfv8 tank. Thanks for all your help

 

[Vapin4Joy]

Toss the IMREN's, they are rewraps, as far as Sony I recommend the VTC5 or VTC5A, both more AMPS than the VTC6.

 

[SirRichardRear]

LG Hg2, LG HE4, Samsung 30q, Samsung 25R

Sites
liionwholesale.com illumn.com imrbatteries.com

 

[gakudzu]

What they said ^^^^

 

[Ctenney700r]

That sucks. They were about 15 bucks a piece. It's so hard to know what's authentic and what's fake any more.
What amp do I need for this mod. If I have it at like 90 watts the mod is saying I'm pulling about 22 amps. Do I need a battery with high amps to run higher wattage then?

 

[SirRichardRear]

That sucks. They were about 15 bucks a piece. It's so hard to know what's authentic and what's fake any more.
What amp do I need for this mod. If I have it at like 90 watts the mod is saying I'm pulling about 22 amps. Do I need a battery with high amps to run higher wattage then?

20 amp batteries will be fine. LG Hg2 or Samsung 30q for best battery life.
Ohms law doesn't apply to the way regulated mods work

 

[Ctenney700r]

OK. What would you say would be the safest and best battery to use then? I have 2 vtc6. Should I use them over the IMREN batteries until I figure out what ones I want to replace the imren ones with?

 

[SirRichardRear]

OK. What would you say would be the safest and best battery to use then? I have 2 vtc6. Should I use them over the IMREN batteries until I figure out what ones I want to replace the imren ones with?

yeah if authentic the VCT6 are great batteries they are a little better then newer HG2 batts, but a little worse then older HG2 batts and samsung 30q. but realistically the 3 of those perform pretty much the same
don't use the imren

 

[Ctenney700r]

Wouldn't the higher mah mean longer life? Say a 3000mah battery would hold more of a charge than say a 2100mah battery. Is that correct or am I wrong?

 

[SirRichardRear]

Wouldn't the higher mah mean longer life? Say a 3000mah battery would hold more of a charge than say a 2100mah battery. Is that correct or am I wrong?

yes more mah = better battery life. the trade off is higher mah have a lower amp limit
for regulated mods 20 amp batteries are good. of mechs then it's all about ohms law and depends on your build and battery config

 

[Ctenney700r]

yes more mah = better battery life. the trade off is higher mah have a lower amp limit
for regulated mods 20 amp batteries are good. of mechs then it's all about ohms law and depends on your build and battery config

OK. So if I went with 20 amp battery I would be OK in this mod? I've if day vapid at 150 watts. It won't pull more than the 20amps from the battery and be unsafe

 

[SirRichardRear]

OK. So if I went with 20 amp battery I would be OK in this mod? I've if day vapid at 150 watts. It won't pull more than the 20amps from the battery and be unsafe

correct. the mod doesn't pull directly from the batts like unregulated mods do.
I've used samsung 30q, LG HG2, and LG HE4 batts in my alien at 220 watts to test it with no issues.

 

[Ctenney700r]

correct. the mod doesn't pull directly from the batts like unregulated mods do.
I've used samsung 30q, LG HG2, and LG HE4 batts in my alien at 220 watts to test it with no issues.

OK. So of the 3 sites you listed. I don't have to worry about fakes or rewarded batteries. They are good reputable sellers?

 

[SirRichardRear]

OK. So of the 3 sites you listed. I don't have to worry about fakes or rewarded batteries. They are good reputable sellers?

yes all 3 are reputable sellers. I never purchased from imrbatteries. but i have purchased regularly form illumn.com and liionwholesale.com both have very fast shipping and don't sell fakes.

 

[Ctenney700r]

yes all 3 are reputable sellers. I never purchased from imrbatteries. but i have purchased regularly form illumn.com and liionwholesale.com both have very fast shipping and don't sell fakes.

I think I'm gonna go with the LG HG2 from imrbatteries and see how they work

 

[Ctenney700r]

So what happens when I would vape at a higher wattage and pull more than 20 amps from the battery? Will it just not fire or will the battery fire but cause potential for something bad to happen?

 

[SirRichardRear]

So what happens when I would vape at a higher wattage and pull more than 20 amps from the battery? Will it just not fire or will the battery fire but cause potential for something bad to happen?

the mod doesn't pull directly from the battery to power your build.

 

[Ctenney700r]

So I can still vape at say 200 watts and be safe? . Sorry for all the questions. I had an efest battery explode on me in a mech mod. The guy at the vape shop told me to buy a mech mod with a sub ohm tank a few tears back and it exploded in my face. So I have been using a coolfire 4 plus with a built in battery. So I'm just trying to make sure I'm OK before I do it.

 

[SirRichardRear]

So I can still vape at say 200 watts and be safe? . Sorry for all the questions. I had an efest battery explode on me in a mech mod. The guy at the vape shop told me to buy a mech mod with a sub ohm tank a few tears back and it exploded in my face. So I have been using a coolfire 4 plus with a built in battery. So I'm just trying to make sure I'm OK before I do it.

no problem. ask away
thats why vape shops should not be selling mechs to beginners. Not only that but efest are shit batteries anyway and they shouldn't be selling those either. with mechs (especially with sub ohm tanks) then you follow ohms law because the batteries are directly powering your coils. in regulated mods most use a DC-DC converter and have safe regulations built in and are made to be used with 20 amp batteries.

 

[Ctenney700r]

It took me till about a week ago to even hold an 18650 battery. If I'm not mistaken the coolfire uses an 18650 but it's build in. So I never seen it. There's just so many ppl making clones and fakes these days it's almost impossible to know when your buying authentic stuff.
On the other hand I'm really liking this alien mod. But I'm afraid to use it now until them LG batteries get here.
Would I be safe using the Sony vtc6 if I'm using them at low wattage. No way for me know if they are authentic. How would I determine that. Do you know

 

[Whiskey]

Moving this to Battery area

 

[SirRichardRear]

It took me till about a week ago to even hold an 18650 battery. If I'm not mistaken the coolfire uses an 18650 but it's build in. So I never seen it. There's just so many ppl making clones and fakes these days it's almost impossible to know when your buying authentic stuff.
On the other hand I'm really liking this alien mod. But I'm afraid to use it now until them LG batteries get here.
Would I be safe using the Sony vtc6 if I'm using them at low wattage. No way for me know if they are authentic. How would I determine that. Do you know

even the most trained people have issues spotting a fake from a real one TBH. it depends where they came from. If it's ebay or the like they are probably fake
mooch is an amazing person in the vaping community. his battery tests are what let us know what is good and not. he has recommened batteries and sites all here

EDIT: also for sony batteries it's hard to trust because technically they aren't supposed to be sold anymore as sony issued a cease and desist and good vendors honored that order

 

[IMFire3605]

Just chipping in here, to know where your safety is with batteries are 2 ohm's law formulas.

Mech/unregulated
Volts/ohm's=amps. (This is done at battery fresh charge so volts is 4.2v at fresh charge). 4.2/1.0 ohm's=4.2amps, 4.2v/0.5 ohm's=8.4 amps, pretty simple and basic

Regulated mod's, we use a watts formula
(Set watts/lowest battery charge before shutdown)/mod chipset efficiency=maximum amps
Watts setting=what your watts are set to
Lowest battery charge on a regulated mod can be between 3.0v to about 3.6 3.7 volts per battery. Single battery or batteries in parallel (both positives up) config would be voltage of single battery, 3.2 generally the average, in a series (1 up positive 1 down positive, or 2 up 1 down, etc) voltage is multiplied by the number of batteries (dual would be example 6.4 (3.2x2) triple would be 9.6 (3.2x3)
Mod chipset varies but using 90% is about average, Dna200 for example has about a 98% efficiency
So dual battery at 100watts
(100/6.4)/90%=17.3611amps
Triple battery same setting
(100/9.6)/90%=11.5741amps

Not very hard simple algebra and a calculator, just fill the variables listed above and you can calculate them all day.

Mech best to use the above formula
Regulated you can about figure your max watts as so
20amps = 60 watts per battery max
25amps = 75 watts max per battery
30amps = 90 watts max per battery

No battery with higher than 30amps CDR (LG HB series) on the market in 18650 form, any battery says higher than that is a lie and rewrap, Sony, LG, and Samsung have yet to break that 30amp ceiling nor packing high amps and mah together


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[SirRichardRear]

Just chipping in here, to know where your safety is with batteries are 2 ohm's law formulas.

Mech/unregulated
Volts/ohm's=amps. (This is done at battery fresh charge so volts is 4.2v at fresh charge). 4.2/1.0 ohm's=4.2amps, 4.2v/0.5 ohm's=8.4 amps, pretty simple and basic

Regulated mod's, we use a watts formula
(Set watts/lowest battery charge before shutdown)/mod chipset efficiency=maximum amps
Watts setting=what your watts are set to
Lowest battery charge on a regulated mod can be between 3.0v to about 3.6 3.7 volts per battery. Single battery or batteries in parallel (both positives up) config would be voltage of single battery, 3.2 generally the average, in a series (1 up positive 1 down positive, or 2 up 1 down, etc) voltage is multiplied by the number of batteries (dual would be example 6.4 (3.2x2) triple would be 9.6 (3.2x3)
Mod chipset varies but using 90% is about average, Dna200 for example has about a 98% efficiency
So dual battery at 100watts
(100/6.4)/90%=17.3611amps
Triple battery same setting
(100/9.6)/90%=11.5741amps

Not very hard simple algebra and a calculator, just fill the variables listed above and you can calculate them all day.

Mech best to use the above formula
Regulated you can about figure your max watts as so
20amps = 60 watts per battery max
25amps = 75 watts max per battery
30amps = 90 watts max per battery

No battery with higher than 30amps CDR (LG HB series) on the market in 18650 form, any battery says higher than that is a lie and rewrap, Sony, LG, and Samsung have yet to break that 30amp ceiling nor packing high amps and mah together


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Very nice post.

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[Ctenney700r]

This is what I got when I did the authentication check on the IMREN batteries.

 

[Ctenney700r]

And this is a pic of the Sony vtc6 batteries.

 

[SirRichardRear]

This is what I got when I did the authentication check on the IMREN batteries.

Authentic imren doesn't mean anything as they are rewarded there are only 4 companies that manufacture batteries. Sony samsung lg and Panasonic. All the other brands could be any cell rewrappes

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[Ctenney700r]

Authentic imren doesn't mean anything as they are rewarded there are only 4 companies that manufacture batteries. Sony samsung lg and Panasonic. All the other brands could be any cell rewrappes

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So are they Sony vtc6 pictured authentic? They look and have the same writing in them as the vtc6 on liionwholesale.com

 

[SirRichardRear]

So are they Sony vtc6 pictured authentic? They look and have the same writing in them as the vtc6 on liionwholesale.com

I have no idea. it's near impossible to tell.
https://www.sun-vapers.com/how-to-spot-a-fake-sony-vtc5-battery/

 

[Ctenney700r]

I have no idea. it's near impossible to tell.
https://www.sun-vapers.com/how-to-spot-a-fake-sony-vtc5-battery/

If I go by this article they seem to be legit. But being only 15amps. Can I still use them in the alien 220? The only thing I seen that's different is the label that's printed on them in like a silver sticker that states the mah and the voltage. But I heard that's for shipping purposes

 

[IMFire3605]

If I go by this article they seem to be legit. But being only 15amps. Can I still use them in the alien 220? The only thing I seen that's different is the label that's printed on them in like a silver sticker that states the mah and the voltage. But I heard that's for shipping purposes

Mooch our independent battery tester, his irl job is testing batteries, tested the vtc6 to be 19amp CDR, 4amps over manufacturer spec. They will be fine up to about 55watts per battery, dual batter that is 110watts, triple battery about 165watts. These super high watts devices really can't reach advertised max watts when most vendors offer only high mah, lower amp batteries. Even with 1500mah true 30 amp lg hb6 batteries which are 90ish watts per battery in a dual battery mod that is 180watts maybe 190 but you can't get above that in a dual battery mod, some of the triple battery mod's can get to 200 and above between a range of 180 (20 amp batteries to 270 with 30 amp batteries). Research before buying you next purchase.

Liionwholesale.com is a highly reputable vendor, if they have an issue of fake batteries they'll email you and post a warning on their site.

So 110 watts and below the vtc6 will be fine in the alien 220.


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[Ctenney700r]

Mooch our independent battery tester, his irl job is testing batteries, tested the vtc6 to be 19amp CDR, 4amps over manufacturer spec. They will be fine up to about 55watts per battery, dual batter that is 110watts, triple battery about 165watts. These super high watts devices really can't reach advertised max watts when most vendors offer only high mah, lower amp batteries. Even with 1500mah true 30 amp lg hb6 batteries which are 90ish watts per battery in a dual battery mod that is 180watts maybe 190 but you can't get above that in a dual battery mod, some of the triple battery mod's can get to 200 and above between a range of 180 (20 amp batteries to 270 with 30 amp batteries). Research before buying you next purchase.

Liionwholesale.com is a highly reputable vendor, if they have an issue of fake batteries they'll email you and post a warning on their site.

So 110 watts and below the vtc6 will be fine in the alien 220.


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I ordered 2 LG HG2 from imrbatteries. Com as the other guy recommended 3 reputable sites to buy from. I'm gonna pitch the IMREN batteries and run the vtc6 until the LG get here. I only vape around 75 or 80 watts so the vtc6 should be fine for a other day or so until the HG2 get here.
I did a lot of research on the alien 220. After the new firmware update I guess it's pretty much a true 220 watt device.

 

[SirRichardRear]

Mooch our independent battery tester, his irl job is testing batteries, tested the vtc6 to be 19amp CDR, 4amps over manufacturer spec. They will be fine up to about 55watts per battery, dual batter that is 110watts, triple battery about 165watts. These super high watts devices really can't reach advertised max watts when most vendors offer only high mah, lower amp batteries. Even with 1500mah true 30 amp lg hb6 batteries which are 90ish watts per battery in a dual battery mod that is 180watts maybe 190 but you can't get above that in a dual battery mod, some of the triple battery mod's can get to 200 and above between a range of 180 (20 amp batteries to 270 with 30 amp batteries). Research before buying you next purchase.

Liionwholesale.com is a highly reputable vendor, if they have an issue of fake batteries they'll email you and post a warning on their site.

So 110 watts and below the vtc6 will be fine in the alien 220.


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That's not true at all. Dljsb tested the alien and got 221.7 watts max from it

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[nightshard]

You are both right.
You can reach 220W with the mod but at the same time you shouldn't, at least not with any of the batteries currently available on the market.
The amp draw at 220W and 3.2V with only 2 batteries is around 38A.

So 120W max with 20A batteries and 180W max with 30A

 

[SirRichardRear]

You are both right.
You can reach 220W with the mod but at the same time you shouldn't, at least not with any of the batteries currently available on the market.
The amp draw at 220W with only 2 batteries is around 38A.

So 120W max with 20A batteries and 180W max with 30A

with regulated mods, the amp draw from the battery is not the same as the amp draw to the coils.

 

[nightshard]

I know so what's your point?

 

[SirRichardRear]

I know so what your point?

that 120 watts isn't the limit of a dual battery mod using 20amp batteries.

 

[nightshard]

Yes it is, and since you talked about DJLSB here's a table and explanation from his site: https://www.djlsbvapes.com/chose-batteries/

 

[SirRichardRear]

Yes it is, and since you talked about DJLSB here's a table and explanation from his site: https://www.djlsbvapes.com/chose-batteries/

very good read. thanks for the link

honestly though, I hate this question overall and the reason being is nobody can "agree" or have a solid answer because the specs of devices are not listed. I wish we would get better info on the boards of many devices.

the problem here is even with a dual 19650 mod using 30amp batts (highest amp rating available) he has 186 watts as the max, yet he tested the alien with 2 batts and got 221.7 watts from it. This is a subject i definitely want to do more research on and be able to give a better explanation on.

 

[nightshard]

The calculations are usually done with an estimate and an average of the values.
What you need for an exact calculation is the mod exact voltage cutoff and it's efficiency rating.

You can also set higher wattage then recommended with the same batteries by not draining them to the minimum.

 

[SirRichardRear]

The calculations are usually done with an estimate and an average of the values.
What you need for an exact calculation is the mod exact voltage cutoff and it's efficiency rating.

You can also set higher wattage then recommended with the same batteries by not draining them to the minimum.

true but 124 watts to 221 watts is a huge difference. IIRC the alien cut off is like 2.8 volts. I don't think the efficiency rating is listed on this mod either.

anther big plus to it though is it has proper balanced charging so it's ok to charge from the mod itself. Nobody seems to list that out but it's a huge positive IMO as many mods don't

 

[nightshard]

First of all the calculations are for worst case scenario (with almost empty batteries) so if you're doing the test with full batteries you are stressing them less, second the mod manufacturers recommend that you use 30A batteries (or 25 or 35 or 40 or whatever) even though they know the vast majority use 20A, third while you shouldn't stress the batteries over time nothing serious will happen if you momentarily do it to some degree.

 

[nightshard]

What I'd suggest for those that use one of those 200-220W 2 battery Chinese mods and actually use them at very high wattage is to get higher amp batteries then 20A.

There is a variety of 25A batteries with reasonable capacity like: VTC5A, HD2, HD4, HD2C.

There are some batteries somewhere the middle between 20A and 25A like: 20R and VTC4

And for those that really want to push high wattage 30A batteries like HB2, HB4 and HB6

 

[IMFire3605]

That's not true at all. Dljsb tested the alien and got 221.7 watts max from it

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Yes, to an extent you are right you can go above a battery's CDR with no relevant damage to the battery if you are pulsing it continually into its pulse discharge rating (generally double of the CDR but knowing the pulse and rest times until you can pulse again are needed), next as nightshard stated, depends on where the mod shutdown with its battery charge. Being you have a higher voltage to play with gives the extra watts and amps needed without significant damage to the battery or risk of thermal run away. This is a new vapers' section, and I play my responses conservatively safe without giving to much confusing information as it is open to the public at large to view, so those just glancing over the responses don't see a highly advanced theory or way of calculating how far to the edge of the cliff they can get before the ground falls out from under them and get them into danger. Most new vapers are already bombarded with information overload getting into vaping to begin with, nor are a lot of people interested in learning a highly complex algebraic equation to figure these things out, you know the types "I Hate or am Not good with Math" crowd.

So my responses are formatted to place a person needing the information onto the safest step of ground to achieve their goals, they want travel down further there are more advanced sub-forums to discuss the subject or simply send a PM and I'll respond that way or direct them to the relevant sub-forum, sorry for my conservatively safe ways of replying, it is the same way I reply to customers in the shop I work at.

 

[SirRichardRear]

First of all the calculations are for worst case scenario (with almost empty batteries) so if you're doing the test with full batteries you are stressing them less, second the mod manufacturers recommend that you use 30A batteries (or 25 or 35 or 40 or whatever) even though they know the vast majority use 20A, third while you shouldn't stress the batteries over time nothing serious will happen if you momentarily do it to some degree.

thats interesting. I've seen a couple mods say to use 25a batteries. most mods however just say high drain and don't give an amp limit. All regulated mods have an internal amp limit. but they don't list it. For example i even personally asked hohmtech and they said they don't list it for safety reasons but the mod has an amp cut off (as they all do) the alien seems to be around 33-34 amps

Personally I'd love to see a mod made with 2 batts on separate circuits that charge capacitors and the batteries charge the capacitors. and the mod fires from the capacitors. or even a mod with boost capability using capacitors. I'd assume they would be more expensive but would likely perform better then the DC-DC converters most mods use now. The technology is there already, it's used in UPS systems.

 

[SirRichardRear]

What I'd suggest for those that use one of those 200-220W 2 battery Chinese mods and actually use them at very high wattage is to get higher amp batteries then 20A.

There is a variety of 25A batteries with reasonable capacity like: VTC5A, HD2, HD4, HD2C.

There are some batteries somewhere the middle between 20A and 25A like: 20R and VTC4

And for those that really want to push high wattage 30A batteries like HB2, HB4 and HB6

i'm gonna do more testing with the alien. i wanna hit at 220 watts with my HB6 batts and compare it to the HG2 and 30q to see if there is any noticeable difference

 

[SirRichardRear]

Yes, to an extent you are right you can go above a battery's CDR with no relevant damage to the battery if you are pulsing it continually into its pulse discharge rating (generally double of the CDR but knowing the pulse and rest times until you can pulse again are needed), next as nightshard stated, depends on where the mod shutdown with its battery charge. Being you have a higher voltage to play with gives the extra watts and amps needed without significant damage to the battery or risk of thermal run away. This is a new vapers' section, and I play my responses conservatively safe without giving to much confusing information as it is open to the public at large to view, so those just glancing over the responses don't see a highly advanced theory or way of calculating how far to the edge of the cliff they can get before the ground falls out from under them and get them into danger. Most new vapers are already bombarded with information overload getting into vaping to begin with, nor are a lot of people interested in learning a highly complex algebraic equation to figure these things out, you know the types "I Hate or am Not good with Math" crowd.

So my responses are formatted to place a person needing the information onto the safest step of ground to achieve their goals, they want travel down further there are more advanced sub-forums to discuss the subject or simply send a PM and I'll respond that way or direct them to the relevant sub-forum, sorry for my conservatively safe ways of replying, it is the same way I reply to customers in the shop I work at.

i agree with that, keep the information short and simple. but some people like myself like to know more on how it works

 

[nightshard]

As for the mod's own amp limit it is set so that there wont be chip damage and is calculated based on the coil resistance using ohm's law, the DNA200 (and 250) for example has a 55A limit.
But this protection will not prevent you from reaching or passing the battery amp rating (without consideration of the coil resistance).
All the mods that have an amp draw display show you the amp draw on the chip based on the resistance and not the actual draw on the batteries.

Besides that the mod has no way of knowing or measuring the amp rating of the batteries inside it.

 

[SirRichardRear]

As for the mod's own amp limit it is set so that there wont be chip damage and is calculated based on the coil resistance using ohm's law, the DNA200 (and 250) for example have a 55A limit.
But this protection will not prevent you from reaching or passing the battery amp rating (without consideration of the coil resistance).
All the mods that have an amp draw display show you the amp draw on the chip based on the resistance and not the actual draw on the batteries.

Besides that the mod has no way of knowing or measuring the amp rating of the batteries inside it.

yup mods don't measure the amp drain from batts which is why i like my capacitor idea.

 

[gakudzu]

This is interesting reading. Likes for all.