Doesnt matter, he was talkin shit about my Griffin 25 and we cant have that. Sum bitch
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Arctic Fox....Why?
- Thread starter Angrygod50
- Start date
A lot of these guys in local shops are like car salesman. They only know a little but act like they know what's best for you. They hate customers like me. I have no qualms about correcting their misunderstanding.
Very informative post. Thanks!
I guess I'm lucky then: all my mods work flawlessly - with the original firmware as with AF
Although I will say this: I only use Ni200 to do TC, and that particular material has a high enough TCR that small electrical connection issues in the 510 connector don't matter too much with TC. Maybe that's why I never have issues with TC on any of my mods...
This is why I have been saying all along you should not be using temp control, and, if you are having trouble with the 510 and or the wiring, you can still decide to fix it all yourself. I.e., disassemble the mod, use a soldering iron to replace the wires and to fix the poor soldering points, and, in the case of the RX200 or RX200S or RX2/3, use a dremel to replace the 510 with a Fat Daddy 510. It is real easy. Not saying everyone likes doing this or that we should be doing this. Just that, after going through the extra effort of doing this, you can expect results to be worthwile. Had the issues been due to a poor design/implementation of the chip and or board, things would have been very different because then you would have to be an electronics engineer to be able to try to fix them, and then it probably still wouldn't work because modern electronic components like this are typically too fragile to be able to be successfully resoldered without permanently damaging them. These mods are definitely not for everyone, but the electric parts are not electronic and are not too diffcult to fix, at least not in every model of the Wismec brand. You can still dislike the brand, and you can still refuse to repair that which many people find easy to repair. It will change nothing of the fact DJLsb Vapes, in his video review of the RX2/3 on his YouTube channel, not only showed how easy it is to fix, but also showed pretty satisfactory measurement results.
That said, the 510 on my RX2/3 has not failed on me yet. I already know this is just because I got lucky. I also already know approximately 50 percent of people have experienced at least some kind of trouble. There is no denying that. There never has been. At least from me, there never has been. For some strange reason you always keep forgetting that. May be the wire that connects your brain to your memory.
Or you can buy something that works as advertised, including TC, for the same or less money and not deal with disassembling and buying replacement parts.This is why I have been saying all along you should not be using temp control, and, if you are having trouble with the 510 and or the wiring, you can still decide to fix it all yourself. I.e., disassemble the mod, use a soldering iron to replace the wires and to fix the poor soldering points, and, in the case of the RX200 or RX200S or RX2/3, use a dremel to replace the 510 with a Fat Daddy 510. It is real easy. Not saying everyone likes doing this or that we should be doing this. Just that, after going through the extra effort of doing this, you can expect results to be worthwile. Had the issues been due to a poor design/implementation of the chip and or board, things would have been very different because then you would have to be an electronics engineer to be able to try to fix them, and then it probably still wouldn't work because modern electronic components like this are typically too fragile to be able to be successfully resoldered without permanently damaging them. These mods are definitely not for everyone, but the electric parts are not electronic and are not too diffcult to fix, at least not in every model of the Wismec brand. You can still dislike the brand, and you can still refuse to repair that which many people find easy to repair. It will change nothing of the fact DJLsb Vapes, in his video review of the RX2/3 on his YouTube channel, not only showed how easy it is to fix, but also showed pretty satisfactory measurement results.
That said, the 510 on my RX2/3 has not failed on me yet. I already know this is just because I got lucky. I also already know approximately 50 percent of people have experienced at least some kind of trouble. There is no denying that. There never has been. At least from me, there never has been. For some strange reason you always keep forgetting that. May be the wire that connects your brain to your memory.
There are plenty of better options than this junk. I am just glad I found out how bad these devices are before I spent my hard earned money on one. Never buy something so clearly designed to rip off consumers. They have to know by now how bad their 510s are. They don't care, which is why they don't deserve anyone's money.
You're still hanging on to your beloved temp control. Which is fine of course, and, if I wanted to use temp control, I wouldn't have bought the RX300, but this changes nothing of the fact I do NOT want temp control so nope... for me, personally, AF doesn't make the vape performance of my RX300 worse. If it did, I would have reverted back to the original firmware by Wismec. I tried vaping on several other mods, such as the Lost Vape Triade DNA 250, just to name only one example. I quickly arrived at the conclusion I was better off by spending my money on a small collection of mech mods. I am not the only member on this forum website who has arrived at that conclusion. And I am certainly not the only one who doesn't want temp control. You said the AF developers think the board of the mod you have trouble with is solid. This confirms what I said all along about the connection problem, which is still easy to fix (except of course maybe for you). This also confirms you keep arguing just for the sake of argument. So you're not really here to help anyone.
My argument is valid because not everyone wants to use temp control. I do not want to use it so the piss poor 510 does not bother me because I know how to use a soldering iron and a dremel as well as know how to replace the 510 with a Fat Daddy 510 even though I haven't felt the need to replace it yet (because, again, I do not want temp control). So I do not want temp control. Also, I do not want temp control. In addition to that, I do not want temp control. Have I told you I do not want temp control? I think I forgot to mention I do not want temp control.
Dude, give up the ghost. There is no explaining away the crappiness of these mods. I could buy a crappy car and replace the transmission with a better one too. But why would I if I can get a better car without the extra hassle and cost. Are you getting paid to defend this garbage?
SirRichardRear
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1 no you haven't,
2 I never mentioned temp control, you don't realize the 510 connection effects power mode too? of course not, you clearly don't understand at all how the mods work. let me explain the issue even further since you don't get it.
You love your beloved power curve mode doesn't work correctly. resistance on these mods goes down due to the way the 510 is wired. as resistance goes down voltage goes down to meet the same power requirement. Say you use a .2 ohm coil and set it for 100 watts for 1 second, 80 watts for 1 second, and 40 watts for one second. the mod should put out 4.472v, then 4v, then 2.828v that would be the correct output. however due to the wiring the resistance drops so say after the 1st second now the mod sees resistance at .1 it'll put out 2.828v instead of the 4 it's supposed to so that 80 watt setting is really only 40 watts, then say it jumps back to .15 for the 3rd second it'll put out 2.449 volts which is really 30 watts. so your 100-80-40 setting turns out to be 100-40-30 huge difference. Now mind you this is an example and every time you fire it'll be different webcast of the jumping resistance. It doesn't just effect temp control but if you had any experiance you would know that. in the words of judge judy god gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason you need to learn to listen more so you can actually learn and gain experiance and talk less becuase you just make yourself look worse and worse with every post you make
most new vapers barely know how to use their mode let along repair it. They are consumer devices. nobody should buy something new that needs to be "fixed" right away. it's like buying a new car but the tires are bald. sure anyone can change a tire it's easy but it's a stupid thing to have to do.
No you said i was making it all up for quite some time.That said, the 510 on my RX2/3 has not failed on me yet. I already know this is just because I got lucky. I also already know approximately 50 percent of people have experienced at least some kind of trouble. There is no denying that. There never has been. At least from me, there never has been. For some strange reason you always keep forgetting that. May be the wire that connects your brain to your memory.
Not only all that, but you still haven't addressed that AF themselves says that their firmware makes the mods worse because wismec built workarounds in their firmware to their poor hardware to trick the chip into still firing when it shouldn't be. which is also unsafe.
this^ but sadly he goes around telling people to buy these crappy devices. not to mention many chips have the watt curve on their factory firmware now. vapresso, aspire, voopoo, VOtech, asmodus, tesla, and even ijoy has it for the 1st 3 seconds
once again for the 100th time, it isn't just temp mode, it's also watt mode. I never said the chip was bad. i said several times it's the poor wiring and 510 pin. which makes the chip perform badly. AF confirmed exactly what i said all along.
the fact you don't understand why a piss poor 510 effects watt mode still is just sad at this point.
I swear he has to be. it's the only logical conclusion at this point
LOL!
DJLsb Vapes has shown highly detailed measurements that completely contradict your claim. You need to watch his videos more before you lecture people about your self defined experience.
Thank heavens I don't belong in your category of "most new vapers". In his video review of the RX2/3 on YouTube, DJLsb Vapes teaches you how to do it so people can still decide for themselves if it's easy enough for them to repair or not, but clearly it is you who lack the experience to be able to learn from all this.
Like I already said before, it's not for everyone. Personally, I, think a preheat feature that is broken because it allows you to set up only a single combination of just one wattage value and one time value is a stupid thing. AF already repaired that problem for me so, because I can easily repair the 510 and the wiring myself, why should I still choose another mod when I already know this other mod comes with a broken preheat feature, and that cannot be repaired?[/quote]
Like I already said before, DJLsb Vapes has shown detailed measurements. The power output did not severely fluctuate the way you have described, and I never EVER made the claim that there are not many people who have had trouble with the 510 or the wiring in the RX200, the RX200S, and the RX2/3 so... nope.
Without knowing clear specific details, it is impossible to tell what potential impact this might have with regards to safety. Also, if the AF firmware really does make the mods worse, then why are the AF firmware developers still making it so that it is even possible to install their firmware on those mods? My take on it is the AF firmware developers initially ran into this problem making the mods worse. But they have since improved their firmware a lot so I doubt this is still much of a concern. Else, I would expect them to have been more informative about it. The vape performance on my RX300 has definitely improved a lot after I installed their firmware and I entered my custom curve. So they must be doing SOMETHING right.
The "watt curve" you are referring to is NOT comparable to the preheat feature in AF. It's not even remotely close.
Like I already said before, DJLsb Vapes has shown detailed measurements. The 510 and the wiring are an easy fix.
The fact you don't understand DJLsb Vapes has shown detailed measurements is what's just BEYOND sad at this point.
The wire between logic and your brain has just broken off.
Giving up aint easy, but continuing on when you have clearly lost the logic debate is harder. You have no point left to make. You cannot evolve your point any further than you already have.
Wismec is the Fiat of box mods. Deal with it.
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Arguing with @Carambrda is like arguing with a box of rocks....
Do you not understand that for someone deciding on wether to buy a Wismec mod that there are better options for the same price or less?
I am not going to recommend a Smok Alien, that thing is a POS too but the Smoant Battlestar is a much better option than both for a 2 battery mod. If we are talking 4 battery mods the Sigelei Snowwolf 365 is better than the RX300.
It is fine if you like your mods and if they break you can fix it. For someone starting out or is just a casual vaper do you think it is wise to recommend a Wismec Predator over a Smoant Battlestar?
You arguing like it is you against the world for a mod company that everyone even you admits uses poor 510's. Why you continue this is just illogical stubbornness.
I have 0 problems with you liking your mods, doesn't make a difference at all in my life. What I do have a problem with is you recommending flawed mods to other people looking for advice when there are better options. That is just selfish and petty of you, try looking out for new vapers instead of yourself.
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Do you not understand that for someone deciding on wether to buy a Wismec mod that there are better options for the same price or less?
I am not going to recommend a Smok Alien, that thing is a POS too but the Smoant Battlestar is a much better option than both for a 2 battery mod. If we are talking 4 battery mods the Sigelei Snowwolf 365 is better than the RX300.
It is fine if you like your mods and if they break you can fix it. For someone starting out or is just a casual vaper do you think it is wise to recommend a Wismec Predator over a Smoant Battlestar?
You arguing like it is you against the world for a mod company that everyone even you admits uses poor 510's. Why you continue this is just illogical stubbornness.
I have 0 problems with you liking your mods, doesn't make a difference at all in my life. What I do have a problem with is you recommending flawed mods to other people looking for advice when there are better options. That is just selfish and petty of you, try looking out for new vapers instead of yourself.
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SirRichardRear
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^
Nailed it!
people come here for good advice not to have someone push a shit mod on them that they would have to buy parts for, disassemble, solder, rewire, installed 3rd party software just to make it a good device. most people just want something well made that works out of the box and wismec is the exact opposite of it.
Simple case in point, i keep a running list of recommendations. I update it as needed. I removed the alien and kaos off that list. mind you i like them both and think they are good mods but the alien has had some QC issues as of late and the kaos has 1 weird flaw that if you leave the LED always on and leave it sitting with batteries in it for like 2 weeks it'll drain the batts past their safe cutoff point. Will that ever happen to someone? not likely but still there are more then enough mods without these issues that are good in the same price range so why bother?
The fact you don't want the AF preheat with a custom curve in VW mode is only your own personal choice and preference. You talk about 2-battery mods such as the Battlestar, but my RX2/3 can be used in 3-battery configuration, and the Battlestar doesn't support the AF firmware so, again, bye bye preheat with a custom curve in VW mode. The same applies to all 4-battery mods... bye bye preheat with a custom curve in VW mode on all excepting my RX300. It is crystal clear you do not like preheat with a custom curve in VW mode. But you assume everyone else must have the same preference as you. That is like saying everyone who doesn't like the color of your jacket must be a fucktard. Grow up.
Like I said, arguing with a box of rocks......buh bye troll
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We all know you don't listen.
For the record I understand your point about the power curve in AF helping mods that aren't performing well in TC. I think it will and will try it out soon. No ones going to change anyone else's mind about what they've found works for them, or what they've decided is a crap mod lol. Lesson I learned a long time ago. Carry on.
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I took aliens off my list after the first 3 or four battery fires I read about lol
.
That is not what I have been trying to explain. The only correct explanation is I don't want TC, and I don't want it regardless of which mod you're going to give me─and I still don't want it regardless of how much you will pay me. So if anyone lends me his/her mod for me to vape on it and I'm not familiar with the mod, then the very first thing I'll always do is ask, "OK... how do I put this thing in VW mode?" It's really that simple. Now, I know most mods will allow you to enable preheat in VW mode. But my point is the preheat adjustment/settings menu doesn't give you the option to pick "custom curve". My custom curve looks something like this:For the record I understand your point about the power curve in AF helping mods that aren't performing well in TC. I think it will and will try it out soon. No ones going to change anyone else's mind about what they've found works for them, or what they've decided is a crap mod lol. Lesson I learned a long time ago. Carry on.
Of course preheat settings on a typical mod is not the same as AF power curve where you can configure the power over your entire draw cycle. No controversy there for me. When I try it out I'll taper off the power toward the end of my draw to values to keep temperature more stable around where I want it. Have you tried that?
Does Artic Fox give you "Atomizer short" and quits firing even in Power mode on certain Joytech Models or just when using TC? I'm wondering if using a Power Curve would help those models.
Haven't felt the need to taper off the power toward the end of my draw. This is because my coil build was a single big coil that was ramping up just a tad too slow for it to give excellent flavor so that's the problem I solved by using the preheat curve in the example I gave, but I also found that, once the coil started going, mostly thanks to this same preheat the coil was producing a massive amount of vapor very very rapidly so my draws were typically only lasting 1.7 seconds on average. So instead, I was slightly tapering the strength of my draw at the start to account for the little bit of ramp up that I had kept in there purposely to be able to still feel the start of vapor production (yes... this is one of those things I also find important... also explains part of the reason why I sometimes tend to be choosy about things like drip tips), and toward the end to take some advantage of (a very small part of) the cooldown of the coil.
SirRichardRear
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TC will kick you out. In power mode I'll get atomizer short and it'll stop firing at times. It's due to the 510 pin grounding. as you fire resistance will drop so the mod perceives it as a short. the wismec firmware is built to ignore small drops in resistance. for instance you have a .15 build. You fire it and it drops to a .12 due to poor grounding. wismec firmware ignores it in power mode, but TC will kick you out. AF will throw up a short error. I'm not sure of the threshold on the wismec firmware though
If it's in firmware you would think AF developers could perhaps remedy by making the resistance change larger before triggering a "short" condition. Though that's a workaround for poor grounding. IF it's worse on AF than in VTC firmware, then AF perhaps doesn't have control or know how the VTC handles the issue?
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SirRichardRear
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I don't think they want to. I'm sure they could if they wanted. Honestly it's a really crappy thing to do on the manufactures part. It goes to show they clearly know their 510 pin designs suck but would rather try and hide behind firmware then to just make a good one. it's one thing to do it on one mod you messed up on, but to see it's messed up and continue to do it on every mod is a shame
Ok, I'm a happy camper with AF now, I came home and read the "manual" (Info Guides and Reviews on NFE forum) and quickly learned how to scroll through the Menus on my Pico and manually set my cold resistance. I rebuild Ego One CLR coils, they don't always make the best contact and resistance tends to decrease as I vape the tank down, which in TC mode for 316L sends my temp readings all over the place. With the Pico 1.00 firmware the workaround was to put an atty with a lower resistance on, then put my SS tank on, and it would give me the "New coil up Same Down" message. Now with AF, I just go through the Menu, select Wire.. and set my new cold resistance I want (having observed my cold resistance readings) and lock. Easy now!
https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/arcticfox-firmware.15/
https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/arcticfox-firmware.15/
SirRichardRear
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Not sure about the original pico, but i've taken apart the pico 25 and it's got a really good 510 pin. the board is a little dirty as AF said but the wiring and 510 are all good
I'm quite sure my resistance decrease over time is the CLR coil, haven't seen that on SS on my KFV3, and now that I have the solution on how to manually reset cold resistance I"m good to go. My only complaint about the pico is that the cold resistance as I watch it varies over a 0.03 ohm range, and I think that's the electronics resistance measurement circuitry, not the 510 pin at all. So I just use the average value for my cold resistance setting, that works well. Other than that, the picos are solid in TC mode with my 0.6 ohm SS coil - once I set my cold resistance accurately, I get a consistent vape around 380 deg F - 400 deg F (I vape 80pg/20vg, so tend to vape a lower temp than most since the PG has a lower vaporization point).
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If you guys hate firmware and hardware limits..... why are you vaping regulated.
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SirRichardRear
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mechs don't do temp control
also i vape on everything. mechs, unregulated, regulated, PWM, it's all good in my book
https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/new-foxy-skin.48/#post-138Any idea what is the meaning of .s. in upper left corner. S stands for Stealth mode but what about the dots?
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So a dot just means the feature is disabled.
It's because not every coil build actually vapes well on a mech, and I hate to throw away a very decent coil that took me hours to build─especially if it happens to be my first successful attempt at building my own alien coil, which is the one in the expensive authentic black 24mm Goon equipped with the expensive Half Moon Mods acrylic drip tip on the bad Wismec Reuleaux RX300 black carbon (yes, carbon... because it's so bad...) with ArcticFox installed on it to make it vape worse, and that can be seen in the ridiculous horrible picture below.
AF versions between early June and 23 June have a bug, often showing 'atomizer short' for no reason at all.
I'm currently running v 170624 and the problem is almost completely gone now, only had one (fake) atomizer short message over the past 10 days or so.
Not sure it applies to your situation, but just for you to know...
SirRichardRear
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The last version I used was installed around march 2017
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Lol, you have experienced his logic too then. Another thread I was discussing batteries, and even spoke to Mooch about the matter, but that didn't matter, as it was 'only Mooch's Opinion" (and graphs) that backed up what I was saying.
Before this, he was using Mooch's information incorrectly to back up what he was saying. There is no point arguing, as you can see even if you speak to someone who created the firmware backs up what you have said, it will still be wrong lol.
I like arctic fox though to stay on topic. It has made me enjoy many of my mods more with the customisation abilities.
AF reads live resistance. so your resistance will jump when using.
SirRichardRear
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yeah it's a great firmware and the devs are cool people. I mean they didn't need to speak with me at all but they took the time to talk to me and were really cool. I'll always recommend their firmware, the issue is not every device they make it for works good with it. I plan on putting it on my pico 25 after my review of it.
back off topic, yeah some people are a lost cause lol
They are always answering anybody's question on the forum they set up. They really are willing to help anyone.
SirRichardRear
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Yeah they are awesome for sure.
I do.. but then i have a pico and learned before installing AF. To ignore watt the live meter says....
Resistance changes when wire is heated is normal. The mod REGULATING voltage output to match those changes is required to maintain desired Wattage or Temperature outcome from the coil...
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Only problem, Mooch did not back that up, and neither did his graphs. You are living a fantasy.
Yes, some people are a lost cause. In this particular case, though, that would obviously be you because DJLsb Vapes on YouTube has shown in his video review of the RX300 that the power output is actually consistent in VW mode, but that it is a little bit of a shaky signal, which can not be felt on the vape─and so you're not gaining your lost credibility back by spreading more vitriol in this thread.
Lol, so him actually stating that the 30Q, LG HG2 or VTC6 was a better choice than the VTC5A in that case was wrong? I said the 30Q was a better choice in a regulated mod for up to 120W in a dual battery mod, you then said they wasn't due to sag and other factors, but even with that taken into account you get longer runtime with them in a dual 18650 setup at low-fairly high power settings. Above this the VTC5A is a fantastic choice, but below it isn't really needed.
Mooch said that for up to 75W per battery, the 3000MAH batteries are usually the better choice over the VTC5A in a regulated mod, which is even more than I had recommended.
You then kept back peddling your answers, so I asked Mooch directly, and when shown this you said it didn't matter as it was just his opinion.
Just check the graphs, properly.
You then said that it was ME who was being pedantic lol.
If you really don't believe it then I think it is you living in the fantasy, or are a pretty good troll.
EDIT: I do apologise for this. It was just a bit annoying to see someone who would tell you white was black because they believed it.
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