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Batteries for subohm build?
- Thread starter imikeyvee
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Kent B Marshall
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I suggest this
http://batteryuniversity.com/
http://batteryuniversity.com/
http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator Here is a calcutator you need to fill to spots to calculate. Normally voltage and resistance. So .2 ohm coil @ 4.2 volts = 21 amps and 88.2 watts. So you need higher than a 10 amp battery
dave/jayce
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30amp is your best bet, still take the above posts and READ N LEARN about your limits....
You'd be much safer with a .5ohm or higher. A .5 build is drawing 8.4A using that battery, would give you a little headroom.. and would still be a real good vape. http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.asp
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That's not a set up. That's a pipebomb.
Those are both 20 amp cells. I'm convinced that Efest is just using the A as a part of the model number rather than to actually label the amperage of the cells. Just don't buy Efest batteries. They print bold face lies on those pretty purple wrapper to suck in people who don't research.
As for the Samsung, it's a good battery, but you should never go below 0.28 ohms with it. Headroom is a good thing.
If you want to keep that set up buy Sony VTC4 batteries. You can get them at Lightning Vapes and liionwholesales. Those are the only places to buy them right now. They have good supplies, and I'll personally vouch for the authenticity of the batteries.
Now, put the pipe bomb down and take that Efest piece of shit out of your mod before you lose your hand.
Samsung 25r's, LG HE2 or HE4.
It's only my opinion, but I would steer away from anything Sony, since Sony hasn't made 18650 batteries in over 18 months (maybe even 2 years now). It's well known that 99.9% of Sony VTC5's are fakes, and with all the counterfeiters out there that know they can't get away with selling VTC5's anymore, they've switched to counterfeiting VTC4's. Like I said, just my opinion, but I find it strange that suddenly there is a huge plethora of VTC4's on the market. If they are real, "then they are old stock". And that's a quote from Sony themselves. If these resellers swear they are selling real VTC4's, and you believe them, that's up to you. But I would bet, not one of these reseller's could produce a sales invoice from Sony, or for that matter, any distributor that sells to resellers.
There are very few actual battery manufacturers out there. Most, like efest, moxjo, awt, vamped, anything with "fire" in the name, are companies that re-wrap someone else's battery. Not saying that efest & moxjo don't re-wrap a good battery, just saying they don't manufacture shit, and they over rate the batteries.
I don't think anyone makes a true continuous 30A 18650 anymore since Sony quit.
It's only my opinion, but I would steer away from anything Sony, since Sony hasn't made 18650 batteries in over 18 months (maybe even 2 years now). It's well known that 99.9% of Sony VTC5's are fakes, and with all the counterfeiters out there that know they can't get away with selling VTC5's anymore, they've switched to counterfeiting VTC4's. Like I said, just my opinion, but I find it strange that suddenly there is a huge plethora of VTC4's on the market. If they are real, "then they are old stock". And that's a quote from Sony themselves. If these resellers swear they are selling real VTC4's, and you believe them, that's up to you. But I would bet, not one of these reseller's could produce a sales invoice from Sony, or for that matter, any distributor that sells to resellers.
There are very few actual battery manufacturers out there. Most, like efest, moxjo, awt, vamped, anything with "fire" in the name, are companies that re-wrap someone else's battery. Not saying that efest & moxjo don't re-wrap a good battery, just saying they don't manufacture shit, and they over rate the batteries.
I don't think anyone makes a true continuous 30A 18650 anymore since Sony quit.
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I buy most of my batteries from RTD Vapor - they are very reliable and only sell authentic batteries:http://www.rtdvapor.com/
Also Lightening Vapes:http://www.lightningvapes.com/
Also Lightening Vapes:http://www.lightningvapes.com/
Yes a 30a battery will handle a build that draws 21a
Cloudboss
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The listed amperage is only pulse. I can say an efest purple 35a is actually only 20 amp continuous. They do preform fine around 25 amps though. Its just better not to push your batterys to hard. If it gets hot when you are using it you should not run it so hard because eventually it WILL vent and you're gonna have a bad time m'kay
This ^^^. Other reputable suppliers that I trust not to sell me counterfeits:
Illumination Supply
Lighthound
Orbtronic
Battery Junction
AFAIK, those are VTC4 and they are authentic. They are also a bit on the expensive side. Illumination Supply sells Sony VTC4's for around $8 I think, but they are out of stock right now.
RTD Vapor has VTC4 for $10.62. They also have Xtar branded VTC4 cells for $8.62 which I believe are authentic VTC4, but the batts are a couple of mm longer than normal and that can be an issue in some mods.
I know they're actually only 20 continuous but when vaping your really just pulsing aren't you? Idk anyone who can take a 30sec hit haha.
And yep with a . 08 they stay nicenice and cool. Helps that I run them in parallel
http://liionwholesale.com/ is where I get my batteries. Great prices. Great shipping. Great service. Let them know you're from VU.
Also, missed this. Yes, you are basically pulsing, however, battery chemistry and thermal production can be quite unpredictable at times. Don't push your luck.
dave/jayce
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I second this opinion, I use both, come to prefer the HE4....efest is hit or miss, some of the are good and some suck.
At 0.2 you'll be lucky to have 3.7 volts when you press the button. You will be OK with a .2 ohm on a 20 amp battery. Samsung's are like 6 bucks. Those silly re-wraps being sold for ~20 bucks are a total rip off. I like the LG HE2's as well. Very cheap, and not a re-wrap.
I hear ya Slurp812, but that 3.7V is across the coil(s). I believe the battery still sees amp draw at 4.2V, but I'm not an electrician and I could have that wrong. It's never really bothered me enough to make me dig deeper, but if you, or anyone else could clear this up for me I would appreciate it
They used to have the best prices in town and are very reputable. I've bought a few times from them over the last couple of years. They also have great shipping to Canada which is a must for me. LionWholesale.com and IMRBatteries.com have great prices too and AFAIK are reputable, though I have no personal experience with them.
I hear ya Slurp812, but that 3.7V is across the coil(s). I believe the battery still sees amp draw at 4.2V, but I'm not an electrician and I could have that wrong. It's never really bothered me enough to make me dig deeper, but if you, or anyone else could clear this up for me I would appreciate it
Its what we call voltage droop. Say you have a mech mod, and assume 0 resistance of the mod itself. And you have a 0.2 ohm coil. Fresh battery, and you hit the button. The voltage will seriously droop, and only provide around 3.8 max under load. And that would be only for the first few seconds.
(I was using this chart: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...vtc5-lg-icr18650he2-samsung-inr18650-25r.html)
So maybe the first hit. The next several will be around 3.7, and drop slowly. So if we use the 3.7 volts, and the 0.2 ohms, we would have 18.5 amps. Close to the max for any 20 amp battery.
I'll second http://liionwholesale.com/ They're prices are great, they test everything, and they'll provide their data if asked for it.
Been a while since I posted that, LOL.
I understand that in a mech mod voltage under load across the coil is less than unloaded battery voltage. I believe the rest of the unloaded battery voltage is 'used' by the battery's internal resistance and the mod's resistance. And if that's true, it means battery amp draw is equal to the sum of all the voltage drops coupled with the circuit resistance. Which brings circuit resistance into the picture
In your example above, at 0.2 ohms and 3.7V at the coil, vape power is 68.45 watts and the battery should be seeing 18.5A draw. But what about battery IR and mod resistance?
I don't know if I'm making any sense here at all. I'm probably missing the totally obvious because I don't know enough about voltage drop in basic multi resistor circuits (and then there's the battery too)
. I think it's time to do a little research.
Been a while since I posted that, LOL.
I understand that in a mech mod voltage under load across the coil is less than unloaded battery voltage. I believe the rest of the unloaded battery voltage is 'used' by the battery's internal resistance and the mod's resistance. And if that's true, it means battery amp draw is equal to the sum of all the voltage drops coupled with the circuit resistance. Which brings circuit resistance into the picture
In your example above, at 0.2 ohms and 3.7V at the coil, vape power is 68.45 watts and the battery should be seeing 18.5A draw. But what about battery IR and mod resistance?
I don't know if I'm making any sense here at all. I'm probably missing the totally obvious because I don't know enough about voltage drop in basic multi resistor circuits (and then there's the battery too)
YES! The droop is caused by the internal resistance, and that changes. As the charge on the battery drops, the internal resistance increases. Yes also to the mod resistance! These become factors with extreme sub-ohm vaping. In my example I assumed the mech mod resistance was negligible for simplicity's sake. The thing is, that none of the components involved are perfect. Mods have resistance, and batteries have droop under load. Same with any circuit.
madmonkey
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That's a very dangerous way of thinking. When it comes to "pulsing" a battery you are effectively pushing the battery past it's comfortable limits. This not only causes the battery to heat up but if it get's hot enough the stress can cause the internal resistance in the battery to rise. This in turn leads to lower capacity and inability to preform at is designed specs as well as loss of battery life and health. You weaken your battery. Also, battery makers are reluctant to post much if any data about their batteries pulse ratings if they post any at all. One battery's pulse rating may be good for 30 second's while another's may only be good for 3. Also, after pulsing a battery it needs time to rest and resettle, repeatedly pulsing a battery by chain vaping can be a dangerous game again stressing the battery. Even with voltage drop figured in you're still pushing your battery and that can lead to further voltage drop again as the internal resistance increases. The safest way (not telling anyone what to do here,) is to try and run your batteries a couple amps below it's continuous drain rating...give the battery some breathing room to help insure a long happy life.
@imikeyvee ...to run a .2 on a mech you're looking at something like a Samsung 20R with it's 22 amp continuous drain rating, an old 1600 mah AW with it's rating of 24 amps, or if you want to run a 20 amp continuous drain rating battery and play the voltage drop game I suggest an LG HE4 as the rumor is they're supposed to handle heat and stress better than their HE2 cousins which will help them stay healthier longer and help prevent strain and increased resistance....or an authentic VTC 3 or VTC 4 are your best bets IMHO
Sparks
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I thought I'd find a thread to put this out as I found this to be very interesting and regarding the Sony VTC5's.
I've been a vaper for a very long time and I still rotate matched pairs of Sony 5's and even though I'll probably take a beating over what I'm about to post here, I'm going to do it anyhow.
We have all heard every story or reason for why Sony hasn't produced any batteries for quit some time now including the story that Sony just doesn't like vapers.. LOL,
I think the last pair of authentic Sony VTC5's I bought was back in early 2014 and I got those from a none e cig type pro battery vendor and I just happened to buy their last two pairs and they have had none sense then.
Frankly I believe this explanation about Sony so much I decided to take the gamble and order 4 pairs after some lengthy conversation and I personally believe this vendor, but that's not to say that I haven't believed vendors before and got flat out ripped off big time so only time will tell on this one,
So here is the Sony explanation on why there hasn't been any production in along time, and you know IMO this is about the most sensible explanation I've heard yet, so PLEASE don't hammer on me just for posting this, if it turns out to be the truth well I'm going to be in good shape and maybe it's worth your time by maybe taking a look, and bye the way I have absolutely no association with this vendor AT ALL...
This was in response to my inquiry about some Sony 5's they had listed for sale,
Hello,
And yes…. This is the single most counterfeited battery around, so i in no mean am insulted by your question.
Rumors that Sony stopped making these batteries are false. They simply needed to shut down a facility making them due to the Fukushima fallout and then were delayed while they opened a new facility. That was the dry up period when dealers started running out, but they are now back in production.
We were able to secure a few hundred of these and they are NEW. Not the other rumor of being 2+ years old. It is from our very reputable battery supplier who we have been buying thousands of Samsung and LG’s for over a year already. While they are on the way and we havent been able to physically see and test them, I am assured and confident that they are 100% authentic and real. We simply wouldn’t jeopardize our excellent reputation and any item, let alone one we will only make a little over a dollar each battery. Not our style to jack up the price either as we’ll be only of the only ones to have these.
Also, we were able to get the very first batch of a brand new battery — which I am SURE no one else has yet….let alone even heard of. The new LG HG2 (not HE2). It’s a fantastic price and is a 20A continuous with 30A max (more then adequate for the VF or SXmini) and has 3000mAh.
Hope that helps,
OK, So there you go, now don't be hammering on me, but you know I went ahead and bought four pairs because this story to me sounds really quit likely and if so I am going to be very happy indeed but also note that the arrival date is posted as **Availability – June 12th **
The new LG's they are talking about are a 3000maH and I'm a fan of the LG's pesonally and they are supposed to be 18.25mm diameter so that's a fit for a flask.
Here's where I found these so maybe go take a look?? Sure would like to see a come back on the VTC5's, so well just MAYBE?? I will find out for sure.
https://gingervaper.com/product/sony-vtc5-us18650vtc5-30a-li-ion-high-drain-battery/
https://gingervaper.com/product/lg-hg2-inr18650hg2-30a-inr-high-drain-battery/
Found this company looking for a silicone sleeve for my SX Mini
I've been a vaper for a very long time and I still rotate matched pairs of Sony 5's and even though I'll probably take a beating over what I'm about to post here, I'm going to do it anyhow.
We have all heard every story or reason for why Sony hasn't produced any batteries for quit some time now including the story that Sony just doesn't like vapers.. LOL,
I think the last pair of authentic Sony VTC5's I bought was back in early 2014 and I got those from a none e cig type pro battery vendor and I just happened to buy their last two pairs and they have had none sense then.
Frankly I believe this explanation about Sony so much I decided to take the gamble and order 4 pairs after some lengthy conversation and I personally believe this vendor, but that's not to say that I haven't believed vendors before and got flat out ripped off big time so only time will tell on this one,
So here is the Sony explanation on why there hasn't been any production in along time, and you know IMO this is about the most sensible explanation I've heard yet, so PLEASE don't hammer on me just for posting this, if it turns out to be the truth well I'm going to be in good shape and maybe it's worth your time by maybe taking a look, and bye the way I have absolutely no association with this vendor AT ALL...
This was in response to my inquiry about some Sony 5's they had listed for sale,
Hello
,And yes…. This is the single most counterfeited battery around, so i in no mean am insulted by your question.
Rumors that Sony stopped making these batteries are false. They simply needed to shut down a facility making them due to the Fukushima fallout and then were delayed while they opened a new facility. That was the dry up period when dealers started running out, but they are now back in production.
We were able to secure a few hundred of these and they are NEW. Not the other rumor of being 2+ years old. It is from our very reputable battery supplier who we have been buying thousands of Samsung and LG’s for over a year already. While they are on the way and we havent been able to physically see and test them, I am assured and confident that they are 100% authentic and real. We simply wouldn’t jeopardize our excellent reputation and any item, let alone one we will only make a little over a dollar each battery.
Not our style to jack up the price either as we’ll be only of the only ones to have these.Also, we were able to get the very first batch of a brand new battery — which I am SURE no one else has yet….let alone even heard of. The new LG HG2 (not HE2). It’s a fantastic price and is a 20A continuous with 30A max (more then adequate for the VF or SXmini) and has 3000mAh.
Hope that helps,
OK, So there you go, now don't be hammering on me, but you know I went ahead and bought four pairs because this story to me sounds really quit likely and if so I am going to be very happy indeed but also note that the arrival date is posted as **Availability – June 12th **
The new LG's they are talking about are a 3000maH and I'm a fan of the LG's pesonally and they are supposed to be 18.25mm diameter so that's a fit for a flask.
Here's where I found these so maybe go take a look?? Sure would like to see a come back on the VTC5's, so well just MAYBE?? I will find out for sure.
https://gingervaper.com/product/sony-vtc5-us18650vtc5-30a-li-ion-high-drain-battery/
https://gingervaper.com/product/lg-hg2-inr18650hg2-30a-inr-high-drain-battery/
Found this company looking for a silicone sleeve for my SX Mini
It's not a 35. They're just LG HE2s. They're 20 amp batteries. 0.21 ohms is the lowest you can go. I wouldn't go lower than 0.3 ohms.
I hear ya Slurp812, but that 3.7V is across the coil(s). I believe the battery still sees amp draw at 4.2V, but I'm not an electrician and I could have that wrong. It's never really bothered me enough to make me dig deeper, but if you, or anyone else could clear this up for me I would appreciate it
The battery has internal resistance, so at high current, some of the voltage is spent heating up the battery. Also some would be lost in the mod/wiring as well.
Sparks
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