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Batteries with different charge levels

TrackDay

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Hey guys,

I'm using a Tempest 200w mod with 3 Samsung 18650 30Q's and when recharging I've noticed their charge levels are different. One battery will be more or less dead while the 2 others still have some remaining charge. Is this normal? When I'm recharging the batteries I use with my IPV6x they are always at the same levels.

Cheers.
 

HondaDavidson

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You need to get a charger. The mods on board doesn't do charge balancing. You mod also doesn't draw from batts evenly so you should start rotating loading position also.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 

TrackDay

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You need to get a charger. The mods on board doesn't do charge balancing. You mod also doesn't draw from batts evenly so you should start rotating loading position also.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I do use an external charger. Cheers for the insight.
 

IMFire3605

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You see unbalanced discharge in certain mods, generally either the battery furthest the control board at the tail end of the series or parallel circuit. Some it is the closest battery to the control board I have seen, especially in series mods. Examples batt 1 3.7, batt 2 3.5, batt 3 3.3 or batt 1 3.3, batt 2 3.5, batt 3 3.7. If the batteries are old, 6 even 12 months old or have seen some serious abuse this could 1 to 3 month mark, the lowest battery always if they stay in the same position in the mod is an indicator which is your most worn and weakest battery, if you are staying below 50% their max CDR you'll see this at the 9 to 12 month maybe longer area, if you are constantly at 75% or greater CDR you'll see this in the 6, 3, to 1 month area.

Being 20amp CDR batteries, 50% = 10amp CDR or less always asked, 75% would be in the 10 to 15amp range or higher. My batteries, unless in a mech which are my HB4 30amp domain only, in my regulated mods I use 20 amp batteries which rarely see 10amps or higher, most times they are in the 8 or 7 amp constant power request range, on my Sig150 and IPV3 I see the batt 1 will be at about 3.6 to 3.8 range while batt 2 will be at 3.4 or 3.5 under normal use. In may regulated mods my batteries are pulled for rest before recharge at about 40 to 50% charge on the indicator, my DNA75 mods I've setup for 3.6v cutoff so see recharge when the battery bar is fully almost empty. Is it something to worry about, it can be as it can be a battery condition indicator, but if maintained, newer, and well cared for batteries, most times it is just how the mod operates.

Also remember even with A Bin primary manufacturer batteries like Sony, LG, and Samsung, you could have a weak QC battery from the get go, though it is rare, there in that instance to test is to manually rotate the battery positions each time, cycle 1 - batt A in slot 1, batt B in slot 2, batt C in slot 3, cycle 2 - batt A in slot 2, batt B in slot 3, batt C in slot 1, here would tell you not only if a certain battery is weak, but a baseline of which battery sled slot is doing the most work in your mod to guage things better.

Keeping a battery log book or log spreadsheet/document also help troubleshoot these things a bit as well
1)Battery Label/Number
2)Date Purchased/Aquired
3)Date First Full Charge
4)Number of Recharge Cycles (this is battery life measurement, most battery cycle lives are between 150 to 250 or 300 full charge cycles from 2.5 to 4.2v, half cycles and not charging to full 4.2v everytime in the range of 4.1 to 4.15v you can extend the life cycles out to 300, 500, up to 600 charge cycles (come specialty more expensive chargers allow you to set the full charge cutoff to 4.1 to 4.15).
5)If put into storage the battery charge level, never store batteries at 4.2v for longer than a week, longer storage keep them in the 3.4 to 3.6v range and check them periodically with a multi-meter, goes below 3.4v charge them back up to about 3.6 to 3.7
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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Noob question apologies for my ignorance by why don't store for longer than a week at 4.2v? (Point 5)

And also why cutoff in point 4 just before topping out? How does it help longevity?
:anyone:
 

IMFire3605

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Storing at 4.2v can damage the chemistry of the battery, the electrolyte crystalizes which increases internal resistance, also these crystals can create an arc toward the cathode or anode of the battery (+ and -) creating micro-shorts during use, the reverse is true of damage taking a battery below 2.5 minimum voltage, the electrolyte breaks down the metals and copper into its solution so when re-charged the metals can coat other things making micro-shorts. Manufacturers put a basic, median charge on a battery at manufacture, rarely above 3.7v the median printed rating of the battery, 4.2v for shipping and storage reasons is volatile, unstable, and dangerous. Longevity wise do you need to do this, no as you are not jostling them, they are sitting at rest in a controlled environment, though you'll lose 2 maybe 3 recharge cycles every week to month.

On second point, one of the longest time cycles of a charge on any battery, from lead/acid to NiCd, NiMh, LiPo, LiFePo is at or about complete top off, generally the last 0.2 to 0.1v needed, I've seen 18650s stay at the 4.1v charge state for 30 to 45minutes, and being charging is a continuous push of ions back in, the battery is already grumpy, already been "Cooking" on the charger for an hour or more on a trickle charge settings, keeping the electrolytes in that aggitated/heated state simmers the chemical makeup, think cooking a stew here, so longevity wise charging up from 3.6v to 4.1v generally adds about 100 charge cycles to the battery, I'm not a chemist or electrical engineer to describe it in detailed theory, just what I have read from other experts and experienced users not only E-cigs but RC Vehicle hobbying.

In both instances it breaks down to you alter the chemical makeup of a battery you decrease its capacity faster than it does under normal usage anyway, overcharging, rapid charging (1 plus input current and higher instead of 0.5amps and lower) constantly, high abuse high amp discharge, and not storing them at factory shipping charge levels, changes the chemistry, this change decreases Mah (run time discharge) and its C (current rating) which combined determines max Continuous Discharge Rate (CDR), decrease your CDR and ask more CDR than the battery can supply = "Big Boom" or a nice "Roman Candle".

Basically tied in with safety, how gentle or rough you are on your batteries, hope that answered some of it for you @KingPin!
 

BoomStick

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Member For 5 Years
Good info, but remember these aren't expensive battery packs and imr/inr batteries are safer than what the r/c folks use. Spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to squeeze a few extra charge cycles out of $5 batteries if you want. While you're filling out log books, I'll have bought a new battery and moved on with my life. ;)

For our purposes the following is good enough.
1. Stay within cdr.
2. Don't charge above 4.20v.
3. Don't drain below 3.2v.
4. Store long term around nominal voltage of 3.7v.
5. Enjoy your vape.

The above concerns single cells. Using multiple cells in a device of course requires a little more monitoring and comparison of the cells to keep things balanced.
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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Good info, but remember these aren't expensive battery packs and imr/inr batteries are safer than what the r/c folks use. Spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to squeeze a few extra charge cycles out of $5 batteries if you want. While you're filling out log books, I'll have bought a new battery and moved on with my life. ;)

For our purposes the following is good enough.
1. Stay within cdr.
2. Don't charge above 4.20v.
3. Don't drain below 3.2v.
4. Store long term around nominal voltage of 3.7v.
5. Enjoy your vape.

The above concerns single cells. Using multiple cells in a device of course requires a little more monitoring and comparison of the cells to keep things balanced.

Just wondered if it risked chances of going nuke on me or something lol plus good to know these things

I'm not too fussed on longevity as you say these things cost a few quid each
 

dr_rox

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Batteries used in series will discharge unbalanced since they are part of the circuit and have internal resistance. That is why there are balanced charger boards used in almost all mods. Plus, it is only safe way to charge a series pack. Charge a series pack to n-cells x 4.2 you will get fires since that charging method is not balanced either, for same reason.

If you take the cells out to charge, use in diff positions in the mod to extend life a little.
 

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