Beginners questions: How to get a smooth AND high powered vape

Discussion in 'Cloud Chasers Corner' started by BornInBlood, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. BornInBlood

    BornInBlood

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    Hey folks, I am not a pro in rebuilding, but i need a high wattage vape to be fully satisfied.. I have some cool setups ATM, orchid @ 0.3 Ohms, 26G, 7 wraps, 2,5MM.. @40/45W. And a Poseidon II Clone with tri coils, 26G, 8 wraps 2,5-3MM, regulated @ 70W. All rayon.
    All fine, great vapor + flavor.. Vape heaven..

    I just switched to 26650 size mods + attys, because of my not so tiny hands, and more space for liquid..
    Now my problems: I just got a Plum veil + asmodus, both 26650 size. I wanted to make a dual coil setup on both, which takes a high wattage of 70W-100W minimum.. So i got some 24G and 20G nichrome, and made bigger coils of 3.5MM size for better wicking and more surface area..
    Sadly, i get a very harsh vape on both.. The plum veil is extremely harsh, unvapeable.. The asmodus is a bit better, but far from my Poseidon II, Orchid, Kraken,...
    1. I heard, that the bigger the coils get, the more harsh the vapor gets. Is that true??
    2. I tried to get the coils a near to the airholes as possible.. I heard, that this is also a major point to get a smooth vape, more flavor and vapor.. Is that true, or just the opposite?
    3. The Plum veil has only 1 cyclops style airhole on every side. The asmodus 2 small holes. With quads i experienced a much smoother vape with the asmodus.. At every try the plum has an extremely harsh vape.. Are the different airholes the reason?
    3. What can you tell me how to get a high power (70W - 100W) RDA setup with low gauge wire, dual coils or quad coils? How many wraps, what gauge wire, how near to airflow, bigger or smaller coils, ect.? How can i get a smooth vape from them like with my Poseidon II @ 70W?

    PS: I am using 3MG nic, and i dont want a big throat hit.. Big clouds are my throat hit.. So nic isnt the problem here, as it works great, smooth on my other devices.. But not with the Plum and Asmodus..
     
  2. BornInBlood

    BornInBlood

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    No one?
    I am kinda desperate hear..
    Greetz
    Steve
     
  3. OB61887

    OB61887 Am I saying meow? Silver Contributor

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    1. Not necessarily. Thick wires have less resistance which means more wattage. They also take more to heat up but heat up hotter. You will generally get a hotter vape that if your not used to can be harsh. Also, they usually take shorter hits. 2-3 seconds for me.
    2. You want the coil in front of the air hole. There are different opinions of if you want it above, in front or below the coil but you want it lined up with the coil. I prefer mine above it with space between it and the coil for air to travel. The goal is to have air pass by the coil.
    3. I don't understand the question. Different airholes can be optimized for different builds. The plume veil will be tough to build a smooth quad coil with low resistance wire like 24G nichrome. Since lower resistance vapes so hot you generally want a lot of air with it.
    4. Wattage depends on voltage, resistance and the number of coils. If you are sub ohming you really should become familiar with the basics of Ohms low. Also here is a very useful page. http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp will tell you the resistance of your coil based on the build. The calculator on that site will tell you the wattage you will get based on the resistance and voltage (generally 4.2 fully charged and 3.2 when empty with 3.7 nominal).

    IMPORTANT!!! Be very aware of the amperage you are putting out and how much your battery can handle when building low ohm mech builds. This is how people blow up batteries.

    Edit: Also, even with 3mg nic the VG to PG ratio will smooth things out. The more VG the smoother it is however VG doesn't carry flavor as well. I drip 80/20 or 70/30.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
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  4. VapingJunkie

    VapingJunkie Down with the Clown Silver Contributor

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    It's not so much automatically that bigger coils are harsher, but without preparation this is the outcome. Bigger coils require more air. With non-adjustable airflow devices, you'll have to play with them until you find the sweet spot. Devices that adjust the airflow are the ones you can use to toy with new coil builds. Hope this helps, vape on!
     
  5. mjt

    mjt New Member

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    Interesting questions. If you want smoother vape with more vaper production try going with high vg based juice. In terms of coils that would depend on the rba or rda your using. Personally I target around .3ohms using japenese cotton. As others have stated make sure your not exceeding the amps of your battery. For example on my mephisto i usually use 22 guage dual coil @.3 ohms and vape @ 100 watts regulated. Produces great flavor and vapor production. Check out the ares extreme mod if you really want to get crazy with it goes up to 300watts.
     
  6. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Gold Contributor

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    You may want to try cotton instead of rayon. Personally, I think it hits smoother, but thats my own personal opinion.

    I have also found that large coils are a bit harsher, thus having a stronger flavor and throat hit, depending on your build. Im running dual 24ga kanthal coils at 2.75mm and 5 wraps (.2ohm) on a 22mm plume veil. it hits like a truck and isnt harsh at 4%.

    I have found that the closer my coils are to the airholes the more flavor and nic transfer, the higher the less flavor, but better vapor production. If your getting harshness, try raising your coils a bit higher than your airholes. Experiment with different coil heights in relationship to your hole, and see what you get. I read this somewhere and it helped me alot.
     
  7. Guven Eryavuz

    Guven Eryavuz Member For 3 Years

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    I also find cotton to be a tad smoother than rayon fibers
     
  8. smacksy

    smacksy Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Well I'll take a shot here and say what works for me..I too like the 26650 batt and have the copper BFM mech..for good flavor and clouds I use the 28.5 mm Stillare with dual parallel 26g (kanthel) coils with 5 wraps on a 3mm bit at .14 ohms..I guess this would be around 125 watts or so but it does pull 30A at 4.2 v. With organic cotton for wicks and the air slots wide open its a very smooth and flavorful vape..good luck and vape on!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    from Droid Maxx using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  9. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    True on the JC / CelluCotton. If I am looking for a mellow vape I use JC. If I want max flavor I use CelluCotton.
    I haven't really noticed any difference between the two in throat hit though.

    Coils close to the holes and in line with or slightly higher than the hole but you can still see half of the coil.

    Try 2mm coils and 2.5mm coils and see what works out best in that particular atty.

    Higher VG definitely takes some throat hit out of it. Just needs a little more flavor percentage when mixing and longer to steep... but if you're buying high vg premixed juices they should have the mix right just let it sit for a few weeks after you get it in the mail.

    Could have something to do with the wire too... I have always used kanthal. Maybe you need lower or higher gauge wire than what one would normally use with a kanthal wire? Kind of recall people building with 20 to 18 when using nichrome but haven't really paid attention.
     
  10. Rommel

    Rommel Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Harshness may be due to your atomizer. My 26650 Tobh clone is pretty much unusable because every single build ive done has had that harshness. Same build in a different atty --> smooth as silk. Im baffled by that.
     
  11. smacksy

    smacksy Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I tossed my 30mm Tobh for the same reason..replaced it with the 28.5 mm Stillare .. I drilled out the hole under the drip tip in the top cap to 5/16" that helped alot with the airflow..I use a big bore drip tip and the air slots wide open for an incredibly smooth and flavorful vape...

    from Droid Maxx using Tapatalk
     
  12. BornInBlood

    BornInBlood

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    Hey folks,
    First BIG THANKS for all your great replys!
    I will try go go throu all of it step by step:
    First, i may have confused you all by naming this thread Beginners questions. I am rebuilding now for a whole year, went throu my kayfuns, Foggers, Taifuns, and those main stream stuff.. No problems there.. I also pay much effort to battery safety, and i dont need any ohms law online tool, as i can recall and calculate these with my normal windows calculator.. I also am no newbie to Sub ohming, But i am a beginner in the super sub ohm range, or whatever ppl may call it.
    They reason i made this thread is, that i have no problems bulding dual coils, even at super low ohms. The problems that i face now are only when i tried to do my first low gauge quad coil builds.. I read in forums, youtube, and all infos i got are all saying the opposite. One info is opposite to the other, so all that reading ect. is pointless to me.. So i decided to ask here directly to get direct answers..

    To Airhole position: So now it seems that the nearer to the coil, the more flavor + nic. The more far, the more vapor, but also more throat hit, and there fore a harsh vape. This adds up with my different experiences with the plum veil 26650 (1 cyclops style hole for each side) and the Asmodus (2 small airholes for every side).

    To some attys generally being a harsh vape: So my feeling is not crazy, with the same build in plum veil and asmodus being very different in the smoothness of the vape.. Maybe in the 18XXX version this is not the problem, maybe just the chinese resizing to 26650 is the failure.

    To more VG: I was just about to mix my new liquids for the next month, lucky i got 5L of VG here, so i will make a mix of 80VG 10PG 10H2O.
    Is the water a problem and should it be avoided? I add it for a not so dry vape, but i read, that the PG is the problem, so a 100% VG should to the trick? I will make both mixes with and without water for a test run.

    To cellucotton / normal cotton / Yapanese cotton: Sadly all regular cotton, 100% organic i get here, has a chemical after taste because of the plastic bags there are sold in. I tested all drug stores, supermarkets ect in our quite big town, and all that worse smell. Unuseable.
    So i am happy since i got the rayon, but i just found an alternative source for yap cotton with a much lower price than this muji stuff shops are making a fortune with ATM. So i am gonna try this out in the next month!

    To coil size: Maybe my problem was using of big coils, i mean 9-10 wraps. I will try 5 wraps now..

    To the plum veil 26650: Anyone got own experiences with that atty??

    So thanks again for all your replys! I am gonna give it a try again! Even if i am in vape heavin ATM with my new Big dripper [email protected]
    YEAH (Big cloud exhaling)!
     
  13. OB61887

    OB61887 Am I saying meow? Silver Contributor

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  14. mjt

    mjt New Member

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    I have to agree with japenese organic cotton havent tried anything else that comes close.
     
  15. VaporOwl

    VaporOwl

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    Bump time.

    I recently got a Fat Buddha 26650 atomizer for my slug (it fits and looks fine but I'm still using an 18650 battery)
    I love the added space and the absolutely giant drip tip options that came with it!

    Instead of using jigs I'm wrapping around my non-jeweler screwdrivers and getting some large diameter coils. My thoughts being that bigger diameter -> more wick touching metal + more wick for juice to flow through.
    Has anyone found an advantage like I'm describing? I'm trying to maximize vapor production at relatively low resistances, around .3Ω, to keep within the safe limits of my batteries while still satisfying my desire for incredible plumage.

    I haven't experimented as much as I would like to, today I am going to rebuild after work, but I feel like there should be some benefit to increased coil diameter. Also quad coils might add benefit since I've been using mostly dual setups.
     
  16. dre

    dre Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I find smaller diameter like 2.5 heat up quicker and the surface area is maintain by the extra wraps. I only use large diameter coils when I'm going below a .2 or over 75watts on a vw device.
     
  17. VaporOwl

    VaporOwl

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    You make a great point. I forgot that I have needed to wait a bit for it to heat up. The low resistance I'm running somewhat combats the issue but I think I may be getting dangerous.

    I'll work on it and see after work. Thanks for the reminder!
     
  18. mjt

    mjt New Member

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    I usually keep it around .3ohms @ 100watts for all my attys. I use 24guage.
     
  19. Neunerball

    Neunerball Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I use a Castor with a Sleeper Coil build 24g 7/6 wraps 3mm => 0.3 Ohm, and a 90VG/10PG DIY mix on a 26650 Stingray clone. I started off with the AFC wide open, then adjusting for both cloud and vapor. Got it currently 1/3 of the AFC's hole size. Smooth hits, excellent flavor, and cloud.
     
  20. mjt

    mjt New Member

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    I agree with castor and a 300watt ares extreme mod for power. uploadfromtaptalk1425437869948.jpg
     
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  21. Neunerball

    Neunerball Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Out of my various RDAs, the Castor is my favorite.
     
  22. gummy bare

    gummy bare New Member

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    More air flow and higher VG based juice should lock it down for you. When I got into super low subohm life, I would get a harsh vape and the juice would "pop" and "splatter"..... the opposite of a smooth vape. I always needed a good throat hit to be satisfied, so I normally used a 70/30 VG/PG mix juice. Once I switched to %100 VG juice (or as close to that as I could get), the popping and harsh vape went away, and since I was running such low ohms, I would still get the throat hit I was looking for.

    If you wanna see if a %100 VG juice is for you, you should check out White Label Juice Co. They sell 100 ml bottles for $20, can't beat that. I recommend the strawberry custard or the juicy peach. Also, make sure you nic level is no more than 6mg. Vaping bellow 0.2ohms on 12mg nic or higher is to much for a lot of people lungs. A lot of people vape at 12 or 18mg, then get into cloud chasing and expect to be able to vape the same nic content.... but you gotta remember your hits are gonna be twice as big (or bigger) as before, and they will be significantly hotter as well.

    Also, try out some "comp" wire as they call it. Things like gplat, royal, hotwires, etc. It's more expensive, but it's worth a try. If you find one of the comp\fanboy wires you really like, you can search around and find what the wire exactly is and get the same stuff for cheaper if your Internet savy. The comp wires will give you a cooler vape a lower ohms. Just kinda makes the vape smoother for you.
     
  23. mjt

    mjt New Member

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    If you want a rediculous powerful vape try going with a dual 26650 series box. I built one to test way to much for me personally. The hottest vape i have ever tried flavor was good though. Latley i have got away from the high wattage and purchased a few billet boxes. Best flavor, great battery life, and a nice sized tank. Your not going to win a cloud comp but my other mods are collecting dust.....except for my caravela nau ofc uploadfromtaptalk1428544028969.jpg
     

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