Best/Safest Battery for 350w Vape?

Discussion in 'Battery Junkies / Chargers' started by SPINNINGCASH, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Mooch is a member here although he has his blogs on ECF and uses reddit for the most part ...I am trying to work on something for here to pull together good sources of info but that will take a community effort to plug the gaps /patience and time :) dunno how we approach it yet need to table it with Admin and leadership ...it might not be feasible
     
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  2. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    He recommends www.nkon.nl and www.akkuteile.de as well as "Torchy at ecolux" on ebay. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/481b4a/moochs_recommended_batteries/d0gsr93/
    EDIT: I suppose the "at" in "Torchy at ecolux" should have read "and" instead.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
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  3. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    I am so happy to read that you will make the effort and attempt! :) Thank you so much! It is so badly needed.

    The higher the quality of information, the more time and community effort it will take so yes, patience is a must. I don't know what I can do to contribute if anything but I am certainly willing to help.

    I sure hope you are successful in selling your project to admin. This thread is another example of why your project is needed.

    Good luck!!!
     
  4. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    That is a good start on expanding the list from the Big American Three or bust. Thank you for sharing. Even if Kingpin is already aware of it, that information will help at least European vapers in the meantime.
     
  5. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Carambrda is Belgium based he may well use some companies there as well I don’t know how much the rest of Europe is sticking to TPD and I know nothing about vape companies from other European countries
     
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  6. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    He does seem knowledgeable about vaping in general and about European resources in specific as well. He might very well be the default go to person for European specific vaping information.

    I am sure no one even knows for certain if let alone how Brexit will happen and what effect that will have on TPD and other vaping issues in the UK. Separating UK from EU vaping information appears to be premature at the moment but perhaps something to keep an eye on and eventually prepare for.
     
  7. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    I've only used www.nkon.nl so far and they were cheap with fast shipping. Whoever has invented the TPD is just another fuckass.
     
  8. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    The proposal came from the European Commission. It is impossible to say from whom within it and economic influence outside of it since the EU government isn't publicly accountable.

    The good news is research is proving that TPD isn't working. The bad news is that the proposed solution is tougher legislation. Typical arrogant EU.

    EU poll shows TPD isn’t working – and hints at tougher laws

    https://www.vapingpost.com/2017/06/...le-global-fight-over-vape-laws-continues/amp/
     
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  9. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Belgium is only the Indian reservation of America. :bliss:
     
  10. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Silver Contributor

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    You'd think after colonizing the world for a couple of hundred years your companies would ship their shit to some of their former colonies, such as the Trucial States. Neither FA UK or Fogstar do so. What a bunch of tossers!
     
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  11. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Lol. I guess this is why the US passed the UK as global hegemons after World War 2.

    At least one and I believe all three of the site recommended American battery retailers do. This is for a massive fee of course -- the American way -- just like their healthcare system. But hey, at least they do it unlike the "tosser" Brits.

    Edit: Oops. Forgot about the US trade embargo. That eliminates some Trucial States. I'm sure the American battery companies will ship to a forwarding company if you don't tell them the forwarding destination that they probably don't want to know anyway. Who knows? Maybe even Fogstar and other "tosser" Brits might do the same.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  12. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Silver Contributor

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    Naw, I get all my batteries from Illumn. The US gets along just fine with the UAE. It would be a lot cheaper, you would think, if I could get them from the UK. I really wish more flavor companies would ship here, that's much more important to me.
     
  13. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    :giggle::giggle:
     
  14. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Not necessarily. Like shipping people, it is often cheaper to fly them from New York City to California or even London at times than it is to Upstate New York. The US probably has more favorable trade deals with the UAE than the EU.

    Good luck wishing more companies would ship to the UAE. If you can afford it, you could have whatever you like from the United States shipped to a forwarding company that will ship it to you rather than just deal with companies that only direct ship.

    Shop the US and ship to the United Arab Emirates with MyUS.

    https://www.myus.com/ae/
     
  15. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Silver Contributor

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    I've tried them. They suck wind.
     
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  16. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Hopefully, you can find another one that works.
     
  17. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    A Regulated device with 50 batteries has less of a chance of venting then a single battery tube mech with a hybrid top cap.
    Being a vendor you would already be aware of this right?
     
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  18. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Once again, this thread demonstrates why a conversation about the relative difference in each vendor's battery safety level is sorely needed. I sure hope Kingpin is successful in selling his project to site admin.
     
  19. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    But if the 50-battery regulated device is the kind that loves to unexpectedly jump to max power whereas the single battery tube mech with a hybrid top cap incorporates a highly reliable fire button as well as a body the exterior of which gets too hot for you to still keep holding it in your hands long before the battery inside gets too hot to keep the chance of it venting down reasonably, then your generalization does not necessarily always apply. A lot depends on the user of the mod in question.
     
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  20. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    What you described (auto-fire) is a manufacturer defect. A dangerous and all too common of a defect but a defect none the less that vapers have to compensate for by buying higher MVA batteries than they'd ever need vaping if they wish to maximize their safety. Comparing a defective product with one that isn't defective isn't a reasonable comparison.
     
  21. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    the whole 50 battery thing was an exaggeration.

    I have followed and posted about just about every vaping related explosion (involving an injury) that was in the media since Summer 2014.
    I'd say that 85% of them had one of these three issues:

    1) just a loose battery rolling around in someones pocket / purse with keys and / or loose change (not even vaping related - scaremongering at it's finest)

    2) a shitty ego battery hooked up to the wrong volts or amps through a wall wart or laptop

    3) A mech mod with a hybrid top cap with a subohm tank on top (usually the Atlantis V2 aka the two most incompatible pieces of equipment in vaping)

    I would say about 10% of the remaining 15% of stories involved a mech with a hybrid top cap along with someone being stupid or a torn battery wrap in an all metal mech.

    I do remember one story of a guy with a sigelei 150w non tc who lost the battery door and had it in his pocket where a coin lodged between the positive and negative connections on the top.

    But he went out of his way to say that it was 100% user error and no one was to blame but him.

    I also remember quite a few istick50's auto firing for no reason at all which should have caused a recall and is the reason I never bought an istick anything.

    Also I saw a blown up hammond style device on facebook but i'd bet that was a beginner box maker error.

    The last two no one was hurt (I never heard of the istick50 thing causing bodily harm but i could be wrong)

    The moral of the story is: A mech with a hybrid top cap should be considered the most advanced piece of gear in vaping and anyone using one should be an extremely advanced hobbyist

    It should most definitely be the LAST CHOICE of someones first mod.
     
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  22. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I totally agree.
    If it weren't for Mooch doing all this testing many of us would have found out the amp limit of these cells the hard way.
    If everyone followed your advice we would be able to count the number of vaping related battery injuries on our hands.
    There sure as hell wouldn't be any more mom and pop vape shops getting sued into bankruptcy.
    .
     
  23. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Until battery manufacturers like LG, Samsung, and Sony start making batteries for vaping, someone like Mooch is essential for this industry to even exist. It would have been outlawed long ago before too many people found out the hard way without someone like Mooch.
     
  24. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    What do you think of my mech mod safety rule of thumb: if you don't have the skills and experience to rebuild an atomizer, you don't have them to use a mech safely.
     
  25. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    This is why I feel safer using a Mech than a regulated device ;)
     
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  26. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You're preaching to the choir on this one. Stuns me at how common I see those that won't build their own using Mech's. Additionally I also scratch my head at those who use rebuildables that don't/won't build their own.
     
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  27. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Mechs could theoretically be safer than regulated mods for someone with the knowledge and experience to do so since safety is in their hands rather than Chinese mod manufacturers.

    There are two reasons that made me come up with the atomizer rule of thumb.

    1) Many of the same safety measures like Ohm's Law calculations that go into rebuilding atomizers is also applied to safe mech use.

    2) Nearly all of the performance improvement benefits of using a mech over regulated is dependent on customizing atomizer coils anyway so this skill should be learned first.
     
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  28. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    That's the main reason I avoid one of the vape shops in my area.

    I go in there and sure enough there's a guy with the mech and a subohm tank trying to buy more coils and there's a guy trying to get his RDA rebuilt.

    The fucking clowns running the shops will sell the coils without even mentioning that the two don't belong together.

    They also rebuild the RDA and not say shit like it's OK.

    They actually charge people $5 to rebuild their RDAs down here!
    The idiot that works there always pockets the money too.
    They would seriously rather have someone show up constantly and bug them to keep their mod in working condition and not even bother to attempt to teach their customers anything about the devices they have sold them.

    The owner is the one who will end up getting sued once something goes wrong.
    The owner who never bothers to show up to see the shit show he's running.

    I'm a cheap ass to begin with but I am surely not going to support a shop that practices the opposite of safety

    The other shops in my area are decent but I guess every area has that one shop that's run by morons:facepalm:
     
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  29. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yep, I feel much safer vaping on my Mech's but then again before I even got into Mech's I had been building for a while and I did a lot of research before I got my first Mech.

    Yep, I see that at some B&M's plus a lot of those working there don't have a clue. There are a few exceptions but sadly they are few and far between.
     
  30. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    And to follow up, rebuilding isn't Rocket Science but it does take a minimal amount of effort to learn. Hell I've even run into a guy who is legally blind, he has pinpoint vision and saying he has coke bottle glasses is an understatement and he builds his own.
     
  31. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Yeah, but that's my point. If the defect is in both the regulated mod and in the user's capability to understand well enough how to compensate, then that's the defect that causes the heightened risk of battery venting. The fact that the regulated mod adds electronic safety features can give the user a false sense of security. That's yet another defect lurking around the corner. One little defect leads to a situation called chain of events... I saw accidents happen that way in Air Crash Investigation on National Geographic Channel. So basically I'm with @r055co on this. Just because there exist headless chickens who do crazy shit with a mech, doesn't also mean we should blame the mech. Should cars be banned just because some people drive their car without knowing how to drive responsibly? I bring this up because IIRC the way things are now, the Hunter Bill is going to see mechs banned. So TBH just kill the Bill. Kill Bill.
     
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  32. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    Your contrarian argument, "mech mods are safer than regulated mods" is an interesting one and a winnable one at that if supported by rational points like "mech mods put the safety in the hands of the user rather than grifter Chinese mod manufacturers" rather than resort to false equivalencies like comparing defective products to non-defective products.

    I love contrarian arguments and this site badly needs more people making them to counter the too strong fanboi/gurl mentality that at times does a bad disservice to the vaping community but it doesn't help resorting to logical fallacies to support them.
     
  33. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    It's not a logical fallacy to me. Rather, the assertion that a mech inherently increases the chance of a battery venting is. The lower your ohms on a copper or brass mech the interior of which doesn't contain an insulating sleeve, the hotter the exterior of the mech's body will get due to it rapidly picking up all the heat that's coming from the battery, and the faster you'll learn to put the mod down because else you'll simply burn your hand. Whereas with a regulated mod typically you don't feel the batteries are getting dangerously too hot until it's already too late. I was a huge fan of Mr. Spock.
     
  34. Polargirl

    Polargirl Silver Contributor

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    A mech heating up to the point it is too hot to touch well before the batteries get too hot unlike a regulated mod is an excellent support example of your argument. I'm sure you have others as well.

    There is nothing to be gained by keeping the false equivalency of comparing a defective product to a non-defective product. It is undermining the rest of your good support arguments.
     
  35. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    I never said a defective product is equivalent to a non-defective product. Rather, I was talking about the simple fact that the risk of a battery venting is largely dependent of the user's capability to understand what causes battery venting as well as capability to understand how to minimize the risk of a battery venting, and that also includes knowledge of how the products may become defective─or how they may not. With a regulated mod this knowledge tends to be obscured by the manufacturer more.
     
  36. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You make some good points that I agree with. My opinion is this -

    For Newb's, regulated Mod's are in general the best solution which I always will recommend. If they choose to graduate to the Advanced level with Mech's they must learn what is required to operate them safely. For the general masses though regulated Mod's are the best choice due to most all of them don't have the desire to learn what is required for Mech's. Once one recognizes and learns what is required IMO they are safer on a Mech.

    Kinda like this, the general population is more suited to drive a Ford Focus, or Toyota Camery. There are mid level options like a Corvette but there are still massive amounts of safety features. But if one wants to own/drive a Ferrari Enzo, Bugatti Veyron, etc. they MUST learn how to safely drive and maintain one. This is for Advanced drivers just like Mech's are for Advanced Vapers who are willing to make that effort.
     
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  37. Locomotion

    Locomotion New Member

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    A John Deere Combine tractor battery...350 watts shatttt
     
  38. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Exactly. Once one recognizes and learns what is required they are safer on a mech... ergo, the user's lack of knowledge and or willingness to act responsibly is what causes a heightened risk of a battery venting, NOT the mech. Those who've watched Air Crash Investigation will know that airliners are safer than cars. Especially if the airliner is flown by a pilot who goes by the name of Sully.
     
  39. Titanium5000

    Titanium5000 New Member

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    Ah how about that? I'm someone who has found this thread after the fact.

    So I also have a 4 battery Smok mod, but it's the GX350, so also 350W in maximum power.

    I don't want 350, 300, or even 250W to vape at, I have a coil that's 90 to 160W Best and I'm wondering what the maximum vaping wattage I should be doing?

    I also want to have an answer to, does more batteries mean you get more Amps? Not sure I understand the maths there, have a rudimentary understanding of electronics, ohms/resistance, P = VI (I=Amps). So by that logic you need any two values to calculate the third.

    a Sony VTC5 (not VTC5A), according to the Mooch chart has a MVA (maximum vaping amp) of 25A, it's rated at 20A CDR.

    So P = VI, 160W = 4.2V x 38.1A and the coil is 0.15ohms. So I'm pretty sure 1 of these batteries is not possible.

    If battery amps stack, then I should be able to go to 80A CDR and 100A MVA.

    Maybe someone can sort these facts out a bit?
     
  40. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    Ill keep note of that for the next tank I cant find in the UK!
     
  41. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    Well im no battery expert but what I learnt from my research..........well from this thread specifically is that the more batteries you have the lesser the chance is with venting as the load/risk is shared between more batteries.

    For example;

    If I vape at 220w on my shiny new GX2/4 whilst using TWO batteries, whilst holding the firing bar both batteries are both being drained @ 38.19amps EACH.

    1. Not a good idea. 2. Something I wiould never do.

    Now, on the contrary, if I vape at 220w on my shiny new GX2/4 whilst using FOUR batteries, whilst holding the firing bar both batteries are both being drained @ 19.09amps EACH.

    Now accoring to Mooch, if the above example was conducted using x4 Efest 3000mah 20A/25A, this means I could hold the firing bar for hours and each battery will never reach over 100c and will have a complete lesser chance of venting. The amps are so low I would not even be in the maximum pulse vaping limit!

    Now if I was to hold the firing bar for hours @ 220w whilst using x2 Efest 3000mah 20A/25A I would probably end up in the emergency room with no hand/face before the hours are up as I would be drawing 38.19amps out of each battery continuously when the maximum pulse rating is 25A per battery!!

    So it would seem the truth is actually the absolute opposite of your statement.

    Thanks to Carambrda for explaining this to me:

    "The general rule of thumb for battery safety on a regulated mod is to take the max wattage you vape (350 watts after the GX350 or GX2/4 jumps to max power), divided by the number of batteries (4), divided by the voltage cut-off of the mod in question (3.2 volts), divided by 0.9 to compensate for the min efficiency of a regulated mod. Therefore, after it jumps to max power if something goes additionally wrong with the mod which causes the mod to start auto firing, you're draining the batteries continuously at ~30 amps"
     
  42. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    Well billions of taxes for the government and billions of profit for tobacco companies are being lost because of vaping. With that combination I would think it is safe to say we have no chance, inside or outside the EU. (brexit)

    I would not be surprised if there are more regulations. This is just the start.
     
  43. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    I agree indeed!
     
  44. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    Ok, So x4 Sony VCT5's, Maximum vaping amps (pulse/taking a vape hit then releasing) is 25A. Maximum continuous (holding the fire bar till battery is drained) is 20A

    To work out the amount of amps you will be drawing from each battery on your GX350 you need to use the following equation;

    (Watts your vaping at) ÷ (amount of batteries) ÷ 3.2 ÷ 0.9 = Amp draw PER battery.


    So if you were vaping at 150w, with 4 batteries, the amount of amps your draining from each battery would be:

    (150) ÷ (4) ÷ 3.2 ÷ 0.9 = 13 Amp draw PER battery. (We can safely stock up on those 3000mah batteries!! All the other 2 battery modders are jealous!! :shades:)

    Now if you did the same thing with 2 batteries it would look like this:

    (150) ÷ (2) ÷ 3.2 ÷ 0.9 = 26 Amp draw PER battery which would go over Mooch's recommended max pulse vaping amps which is 25A for the VTC5.

    -------------------------------

    Now ive heard that when it comes to regulated mods the focus for safety is the above and not on the ohms but I have not researched that part fully yet however so dont take my word on that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  45. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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  46. SPINNINGCASH

    SPINNINGCASH New Member

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    and guys, if you are interested, got all my stuff yesterday. Only got to take my first hit at 4:40am!!! had the batteries on charge since 9pm!!!! Took over 7 hours to fully charge. I think I might invest in a Nitecore SC4 fast charger.

    Ok so im using x4 Fogstar 3000mah 20/30's.

    I cooked up some Toffee Butter Donut ejuice and begun my 350w challenge!

    It ended at 300 watts. Check out the video.



    Definitely could of gone higher to be honest but will wait till my high amp batteries come. Ive only got 8 fogstars at the moment.

    My sweet spot is 175w on this thing so with 4 batteries im only pulling 15amps out of each one.
    {EDIT} After a few more hours and 20ml of vaporized donuts my sweet spot is now 190w {EDIT}


    Now I need to take off this TFV12 and build a dual coil for my kylin and get some flavour going!!!! I hope my sweet spot is even lower W with the kylin then I will probably switch to 2 battery mode. In two battery mode the device is crazily compact. And the feel and build quality? 10 out of 10. Im in love.


    Thanks for helping me to conduct this experiment safely guys!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  47. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    1. The MVA rating of the Vapcell Black is 45 amps so it still depends on what battery you're using. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...it-overrated-but-incredible-performer.834167/

    2. I wouldn't do this either, but that's only because right now I'm vaping on the mech at .24 ohms with 2 × iJoy 26650 in series. Sometimes bigger really is better. :bliss:
     
  48. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    You might want to read Mooch's explanation of what his Maximum Vaping Amps rating factually means. It's in the bottom left corner of his "18650 Battery Safety Ratings ─ Based on testing by Mooch" table, the latest version of which can always be found here: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ngs-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447/
     
  49. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    I for one am not jealous. After your Smok mod suddenly jumps to max power, that's when you'll know why I wouldn't touch the brand with a 10 ft. pole. ;) (Another important reason why I'm not jealous is because ArcticFox firmware is 10 times better IMO anyway due to the power curves feature it has.)
    There is no such thing as "Mooch's recommended max pulse vaping amps". See my previous post in this thread.
    The focus for safety with a regulated mod is to go and read Mooch's explanations about battery safety. NOT to think up your own incorrect explanations, albeit everyone can make mistakes (also including Mooch himself) so in fact the true focus is to make the least possible number of potentially dangerous mistakes. :D
     

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