Best way to freeze Nicotine liquid

[Zombiewoof]

I apologize if this has been asked before and answered. But what's the best way as far as containing liquid Nicotine if you going to freeze it and is there anything you should do other than just leave it alone. Also, what's the best way to thaw it out? Or does it actually freeze solid?

 

[Celtic Fog]

it will not freeze if it has pg in it.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I would like to know who started the idea haha of freezing Nicotine


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[Jimi D]

I would like to know who started the idea haha of freezing Nicotine


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Kurt Kistler a chemist. PG or VG will not freeze. VG will expand. Leave about 20% for expansion.

 

[Huckleberried]

Mine is PG base. I split it into 120 and 60ml amber bottles, leaving very little room at the top and put them in the freezer. When I know I'm pretty low on the one in current use, I take one from the freezer and set it in my dark cabinet for the next time. Allow it to come to room temp on it's own.

 

[LoveVanilla]

+1 on Huckleberry and et al said above. I use a family freezer that is accessible to small hands so this is my approach on safety and preservantion, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...4-important-freeze-nicotine.html#post14046313

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

Mine is PG base. I split it into 120 and 60ml amber bottles, leaving very little room at the top and put them in the freezer. When I know I'm pretty low on the one in current use, I take one from the freezer and set it in my dark cabinet for the next time. Allow it to come to room temp on it's own.

I do the same I let mine thaw out in refrigerator[I live alone no children] I also store it in my veggie drawer, not sure if refrigeration is necessary just a good place for me to store it. I am also using nicotine solution higher then 10% [don't do this at home]

 

[Zombiewoof]

it will not freeze if it has pg in it.

Doh..should have known that! Thanks for the input guys.

 

[GlycerinHack]

I been doing it wrong sonofabitch I knew some one would tell me. These people might know more than some folks who heard some thing some where some time from some body. Wizard could be saying this just to sell more glass bottles LOL WTFK's

 

[Hobby Kid]

I am also using nicotine solution higher then 10% [don't do this at home]

Do you mean your nic is mixed with your base or just higher than 10mg?

 

[CaFF]

Do you mean your nic is mixed with your base or just higher than 10mg?

He's saying he has higher than 100mg nic base. Which is not really safe unless your a chemist, IMO.

Yes, you can buy nic in concentrations greater than 100mg, far greater. (our 100mg base is 10% nicotine)

But, I'm not gonna say where lest some n00b kills themselves with it. . ;-)

 

[Hobby Kid]

He's saying he has higher than 100mg nic base. Which is not really safe unless your a chemist, IMO.

Yes, you can buy nic in concentrations greater than 100mg, far greater. (our 100mg base is 10% nicotine)

But, I'm not gonna say where lest some n00b kills themselves with it. . ;-)

Ah ok. Well you don't really see nic any higher than about 75mg being sold in the uk

 

[CaFF]

Ah ok. Well you don't really see nic any higher than about 75mg being sold in the uk

Yeah, they just buy it from the US, China or elsewhere in Europe. ;-)

 

[Hobby Kid]

Yeah, they just buy it from the US, China or elsewhere in Europe. ;-)

Hmm, the uk already has some quite strict regulations on vape and things which can be used to vape. That's why I don't think we'll be seeing a great deal of affect to a vape community if and when any of the proposed regulations come into force. Most vapers will probably carry on unaware that anything has changed

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

I would not say where I buy it either. I was on a CleanUp Crew at a Turkey Processing plant for several years. We had extensive chemical safety training [4 times a year]given by the supplier of the Chemicals the plant used. We used High Concentration Chlorine Liquid for mixing with water for use in a foaming system for sanitation and Acids to Cleans large walk in ovens. I learned what is required for safety gear and ventilation.

 

[trendkill84]

So why freeze the nic? I cant do it at the shop and all the other mixers with shops in town can't do it either. Hard to freeze 5 gallon buckets lol!

 

[AmandaD]

So why freeze the nic? I cant do it at the shop and all the other mixers with shops in town can't do it either. Hard to freeze 5 gallon buckets lol!

Simply to extend life. If you're using and replacing it on a regular basis there's no need. Many of us who just mix at home buy liters that will last us years, and so we need to find a way to keep it fresh.

 

[Celtic Fog]

So why freeze the nic? I cant do it at the shop and all the other mixers with shops in town can't do it either. Hard to freeze 5 gallon buckets lol!

not really....buy a chest freezer, you would be able to fit more than a few of them in it.
http://www.frigidaire.com/Kitchen-Appliances/Freezers/Chest-Freezer/FFFC11M4QW/

 

[MrScaryZ]

Move to Alaska set it outside and when you need some ahhhh you have to thaw out with campfire that good answer me give

 

[Smoky Blue]

So why freeze the nic? I cant do it at the shop and all the other mixers with shops in town can't do it either. Hard to freeze 5 gallon buckets lol!

try it with a 55 gal drum

 

[MrScaryZ]

I guess my real problem with this mentality is simple.. Nicotine itself is a chemical it can sit 100 years and still be just as strong and does not change a bit if stored in non direct sunlight if its a PG/NIC mix PG is anti-microbial what is it exactly that the that freezing does? Preserve two ingredients that themselves do not really deteriorate at least non in the time period you will be using it... My opinion and I have frozen it for 6 months and had the same bottle unfrozen there was no freaking difference my final words are Its not a Chicken or a legg of lamb...nobody freezes it it does not come frozen.. Help me understand the theory ...Now if tis a VG mix with NIC that could raise some arguments help me understand

 

[AmandaD]

I guess my real problem with this mentality is simple.. Nicotine itself is a chemical it can sit 100 years and still be just as strong and does not change a bit if stored in non direct sunlight if its a PG/NIC mix PG is anti-microbial what is it exactly that the that freezing does? Preserve two ingredients that themselves do not really deteriorate at least non in the time period you will be using it... My opinion and I have frozen it for 6 months and had the same bottle unfrozen there was no freaking difference my final words are Its not a Chicken or a legg of lamb...nobody freezes it it does not come frozen.. Help me understand the theory ...Now if tis a VG mix with NIC that could raise some arguments help me understand

It doesn't last 100 years - the nicotine degrades! Read the post above (GlycerinHack?) where he shows the Wizard Labs storing instructions

 

[MrScaryZ]

It doesn't last 100 years - the nicotine degrades! Read the post above (GlycerinHack?) where he shows the Wizard Labs storing instructions

I see no scientific data on this only a recommendation..

 

[AmandaD]

There's a reason these people sell this:
http://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-armor-100mgml-nicotine-base-extended-shelf-life/

 

[MrScaryZ]

It doesn't last 100 years - the nicotine degrades! Read the post above (GlycerinHack?) where he shows the Wizard Labs storing instructions

showing Wizard labs storage ways has nothing to do with Scientific proof I know for a fact that Nicotine will last 100 years in a sealed container. The reason that Wizzard labs stores it that way is because of oxidation if the cap is removed all nicotine frozen or not is exposed to air Ala the change of color to amber it does not degrade the Nicotine.. ONce I see a Scientific paper from a real authority then I will believe we actually need to freeze it.. My opinion on the craze is it started from one person doing it cause someone else did it...

 

[MrScaryZ]

There's a reason these people sell this:
http://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-armor-100mgml-nicotine-base-extended-shelf-life/

Yes that is the common thing most of the labs do it does not state the scientific proof.. Thats what I want to see

 

[Time]

Nic will oxidize. If there is any air (O2) in the bottle, it will eventually mix and oxidize the nic until there is no O2 left. Putting PG based nic in the freezer will not stop the oxidation but it will thicken the PG a little and slow down the O2 from being absorbed into the base, thus slowing down oxidation. It will not stop the oxidation, but it will/should/could slow it down, IMO.

Nic can last many many years if you replace the air in the bottles with something like argon gas. The average person does not do such things. We use a bit of nic base and and put the lid back on. This leaves O2 in the bottle. I try to slow down the process of the O2 being absorbed into my nic base by sticking it in the freezer and thickening it. It makes me feel proud of myself. Like I accomplished something. Like I did something useful with my life.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Nic will oxidize. If there is any air (O2) in the bottle, it will eventually mix and oxidize the nic until there is no O2 left. Putting PG based nic in the freezer will not stop the oxidation but it will thicken the PG a little and slow down the O2 from being absorbed into the base, thus slowing down oxidation. It will not stop the oxidation, but it will/should/could slow it down, IMO.

Nic can last many many years if you replace the air in the bottles with something like argon gas. The average person does not do such things. We use a bit of nic base and and put the lid back on. This leaves O2 in the bottle. I try to slow down the process of the O2 being absorbed into my nic base by sticking it in the freezer and thickening it.

But isnt the amber color just oxidation and does not actually affect the Nicotine molecule ..?

 

[Time]

But isnt the amber color just oxidation and does not actually affect the Nicotine molecule ..?

For our purpose, it does affect the nic. It makes it taste peppery and harsh. The nic is fine to use, sure. That said, I have some organic soap that is safe to eat but I think I'll pass.

It's not about the usability of the nic. It's about the taste.

 

[AmandaD]

It's also about the nicotine losing potency. This can be tested with a nicotine test kit (easily obtainable from places like WL).

 

[MrScaryZ]

For our purpose, it does affect the nic. It makes it taste peppery and harsh. The nic is fine to use, sure. That said, I have some organic soap that is safe to eat but I think I'll pass.

It's not about the usability of the nic. It's about the taste.

Nicotine is a harsh chemical hell it's used I. pest control to kill insects. I will do some tests this weekend with my oxidized Nic and unopened

 

[MrScaryZ]

It's also about the nicotine losing potency. This can be tested with a nicotine test kit (easily obtainable from places like WL).

Amanda show the proof it looses potency

 

[AmandaD]

http://www.coresta.org/Recommended_Methods/CRM_39.pdf

 

[MrScaryZ]

http://www.coresta.org/Recommended_Methods/CRM_39.pdf

@AmandaD thank you so now I need to do my own tests to see if I can taste a difference that's where I was going with this instead of people just saying freeze Nicotine and not giving a real proof now we have one thanks to @AmandaD and we no longer hip shoot like ECF don't slap me @AmandaD Come on ya know ya wanted to hehe

 

[AmandaD]

@AmandaD thank you so now I need to do my own tests to see if I can taste a difference that's where I was going with this instead of people just saying freeze Nicotine and not giving a real proof now we have one thanks to @AmandaD and we no longer hip shoot like ECF don't slap me @AmandaD Come on ya know ya wanted to hehe

Yes, I did want to slap you - hard (And make you do your own googling around LOL) Truly, when two major nic sellers tell me to freeze it for long-term storage, then that's all I need to hear.....!!

 

[MrScaryZ]

Yes, I did want to slap you - hard (And make you do your own googling around LOL) Truly, when two major nic sellers tell me to freeze it for long-term storage, then that's all I need to hear.....!!

Sorry but it's not just for us hehe are you a cancer or Scorpio

 

[AmandaD]

Sorry but it's not just for us hehe are you a cancer or Scorpio

LOL neither I'm a big believer in research - and, yes, just because 'I read it on the internet' doesn't necessarily make it right. But I've been buying nic long enough that I believe the resellers' advice (and I've read a gazillion threads on this, including ones written by chemists).

 

[Smoky Blue]

well i had <key word 2 litters of nic, 100% vg based stashed in my freezer for over a year & a half now..
i opened the first one 2 weeks ago.. other than a tiny change in color, and using a nic test kit from wl..
i still have 100% nic..

and it is a very good nic.. no pepper, no nic loss.. Smoky has been very happy.. but..
when you open one, you need to replace it with new

 

[MrScaryZ]

well i had <key word 2 litters of nic, 100% vg based stashed in my freezer for over a year & a half now..
i opened the first one 2 weeks ago.. other than a tiny change in color, and using a nic test kit from wl..
i still have 100% nic..

and it is a very good nic.. no pepper, no nic loss.. Smoky has been very happy.. but..
when you open one, you need to replace it with new

What is this pepper thou speak of someone send me Peeper Ejuice I mean peeper I mean pepper.. God I should not be eating on my keyboard.. Time to go out ... need fresh air

 

[Botboy141]

showing Wizard labs storage ways has nothing to do with Scientific proof I know for a fact that Nicotine will last 100 years in a sealed container. The reason that Wizzard labs stores it that way is because of oxidation if the cap is removed all nicotine frozen or not is exposed to air Ala the change of color to amber it does not degrade the Nicotine.. ONce I see a Scientific paper from a real authority then I will believe we actually need to freeze it.. My opinion on the craze is it started from one person doing it cause someone else did it...

I could go back and do all the research I've done just to save you the effort but don't feel like it.

The reason you place nicotine in a -4 C or colder freezer is to slow movement of the chemical compounds inside.

All PG/VG and nicotine bases contain some amount of oxygen molecules within the mix (like in the liquid, small little atoms that you can't see). Even solutions that are left in room temperature and NEVER touched, still have atom sized movement taking place which given enough time (shelf life in ambient temperature is said by chemists to be 1-2 years) oxidization is taking place at this time.

By placing the base nicotine in PG/VG in a freezer, it slows that atom movement due to causing the liquid to be less viscous and slow oxidization overall. Kurt referenced above has been running an experiment going on 8 years now of nic he froze when he first got into DiY. He has tested it once a year since year 4 and it has shown no oxidization (color change) or degradation of the nicotine content.

Search around ECF and Kurt Kisler (forget his username there) a DiY'er with an extremely strong chemical background could explain it in all the technical terminology.

You could also ask Jake from NudeNicotine (chemist) to explain this in the proper terminology if desired. @Nude Nicotine

I don't know for a fact that oxidization has an affect on the quality (taste) of the nicotine, or of the actual level (mg/ml) of nicotine contained within. Hopefully Jake can enlighten us here.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I could go back and do all the research I've done just to save you the effort but don't feel like it.

The reason you place nicotine in a -4 C or colder freezer is to slow movement of the chemical compounds inside.

All PG/VG and nicotine bases contain some amount of oxygen molecules within the mix (like in the liquid, small little atoms that you can't see). Even solutions that are left in room temperature and NEVER touched, still have atom sized movement taking place which given enough time (shelf life in ambient temperature is said by chemists to be 1-2 years) oxidization is taking place at this time.

By placing the base nicotine in PG/VG in a freezer, it slows that atom movement due to causing the liquid to be less viscous and slow oxidization overall. Kurt referenced above has been running an experiment going on 8 years now of nic he froze when he first got into DiY. He has tested it once a year since year 4 and it has shown no oxidization (color change) or degradation of the nicotine content.

Search around ECF and Kurt Kisler (forget his username there) a DiY'er with an extremely strong chemical background could explain it in all the technical terminology.

You could also ask Jake from NudeNicotine (chemist) to explain this in the proper terminology if desired. @Nude Nicotine

I don't know for a fact that oxidization has an affect on the quality (taste) of the nicotine, or of the actual level (mg/ml) of nicotine contained within. Hopefully Jake can enlighten us here.

Ummm what? You have done the research and go to ECF.. and then talk toJake from NudeNIcotine the answer is no I am not doing that follow the thread the scientific prof was found already so nice explanation of what we already said I could push it with more Science but I see this is going nowhere and give..

 

[Botboy141]

Ummm what? You have done the research and go to ECF.. and then talk toJake from NudeNIcotine the answer is no I am not doing that follow the thread the scientific prof was found already so nice explanation of what we already said I could push it with more Science but I see this is going nowhere and give..

Oh I missed that link somehow ;-). Had found that from ECF forever ago (before VU existed) as well. Just couldn't remember the source ;-)

Edit: I also don't believe this source fully explains the issue nor discloses exactly what we should expect with the nicotine that we are handling.

The study references pure > 99% nicotine which is ~990mg/ml or greater nicotine concentration. The effect of storage in PG/VG like we tend to use in 100mg/ml nic could be drastically different.

I referenced ECF for a reason here, it's because this issue has been beat to death there. I have no love for ECF.

I also referenced Jake from @Nude Nicotine cause the guy is a fucking chemist that handles nicotine in PG and VG bases for a living.

That all said, after causing such a stink about this, I'm glad you are content with the research from a single sentence of an article from a 20 year old research study.

high purity nicotine degrades slowly. For example, storage of nicotine (GC purity > 99%
by mass) in a refrigerator for 18 months in the presence of air reduces the purity to about
97%. A similar decrease in purity is observed during 2 months storage at room temperature
in the presence of light and air.

Really the most relevant piece from that article, unfortunately, still relating to pure nicotine and not a PG or VG based solution.

Personally, while we know that freezing is good, I'd love to know if Jake has done any personal research on this end directly relating to the levels of nicotine we are working with in the bases we are working with.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Oh I missed that link somehow ;-). Had found that from ECF forever ago (before VU existed) as well. Just couldn't remember the source ;-)

Edit: I also don't believe this source fully explains the issue nor discloses exactly what we should expect with the nicotine that we are handling.

The study references pure > 99% nicotine which is ~990mg/ml or greater nicotine concentration. The effect of storage in PG/VG like we tend to use in 100mg/ml nic could be drastically different.

I referenced ECF for a reason here, it's because this issue has been beat to death there. I have no love for ECF.

I also referenced Jake from @Nude Nicotine cause the guy is a fucking chemist that handles nicotine in PG and VG bases for a living.

That all said, after causing such a stink about this, I'm glad you are content with the research from a single sentence of an article from a 20 year old research study.



Really the most relevant piece from that article, unfortunately, still relating to pure nicotine and not a PG or VG based solution.

I agree its been been beaten but really I was hoping that we could get to a more granular level I guess my take on it is a bit more out of the box. if we as a community do not start going out on a limb to insure that vaping as we know it does not get banned it will take more than beating its going to be a all out war of the minds.

 

[Botboy141]

I agree its been been beaten but really I was hoping that we could get to a more granular level I guess my take on it is a bit more out of the box. if we as a community do not start going out on a limb to insure that vaping as we know it does not get banned it will take more than beating its going to be a all out war of the minds.

Yeah I agree there. I have no problem with questioning things, I just didn't like getting my head bitten off for referencing ECF. I've just done so much research on this topic and a lot of the good information I had found came from Kurt over there and references to studies that he made. I'd really like to get Jake's opinion on this, he's kinda my (and all of www.reddit.com/r/diy_ejuice) go to guy for chem related stuff nowadays.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Yeah I agree there. I have no problem with questioning things, I just didn't like getting my head bitten off for referencing ECF. I've just done so much research on this topic and a lot of the good information I had found came from Kurt over there and references to studies that he made. I'd really like to get Jake's opinion on this, he's kinda my (and all of www.reddit.com/r/diy_ejuice) go to guy for chem related stuff nowadays.

You didn't man it just appeared that way I have a dry sense of humour you did not catch it. Apologies if it appeared that way.
Ok now what Movie to watch I think I have seen every freaking movie..hmm

 

[MrScaryZ]

Oh I missed that link somehow ;-). Had found that from ECF forever ago (before VU existed) as well. Just couldn't remember the source ;-)

Edit: I also don't believe this source fully explains the issue nor discloses exactly what we should expect with the nicotine that we are handling.

The study references pure > 99% nicotine which is ~990mg/ml or greater nicotine concentration. The effect of storage in PG/VG like we tend to use in 100mg/ml nic could be drastically different.

I referenced ECF for a reason here, it's because this issue has been beat to death there. I have no love for ECF.

I also referenced Jake from @Nude Nicotine cause the guy is a fucking chemist that handles nicotine in PG and VG bases for a living.

That all said, after causing such a stink about this, I'm glad you are content with the research from a single sentence of an article from a 20 year old research study.



Really the most relevant piece from that article, unfortunately, still relating to pure nicotine and not a PG or VG based solution.

Personally, while we know that freezing is good, I'd love to know if Jake has done any personal research on this end directly relating to the levels of nicotine we are working with in the bases we are working with.

Im not content man that was the point I wanted to keep digging and beating but I give I see that its going nowhere as I said I give

 

[Botboy141]

Haha, I've run out of not only movies but shows as well, I've stooped to watching Grey's Anatomy...

 

[MrScaryZ]

Haha, I've run out of not only movies but shows as well, I've stooped to watching Grey's Anatomy...

Yeah man I have seen almost all the new releases and the to be released so haha I have been watching Fire tornadoes hahah on the weather channel that is pretty bad been s ick today nappy no help I dont drink anymore so that wont help ohh wait I justmade some Blue Rasberry Slushee me RDA this see if this fixme

 

[70414]

Haha, I've run out of not only movies but shows as well, I've stooped to watching Grey's Anatomy...

lol I need some suggestions. Did the Grey's Anatomy catch up over the summer. Please don't say Desperate Housewives!! haha

 

[MrScaryZ]

lol I need some suggestions. Did the Grey's Anatomy catch up over the summer. Please don't say Desperate Housewives!! haha

I saw what I could not fathom today the show was called "Fat men in the woods"
WTF Help me hahaha