Butter flavours??

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - General Discussion' started by Semi Reduction, May 9, 2015.

  1. Semi Reduction

    Semi Reduction VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I can't help but assume that butter concentrates would be lame, but I'm working on a cake recipe and would love to add the element of butter. I've seen a few listed. Anyone got any experience with butter concentrates?
    Any worth tinkering with?
     
  2. Whiskey

    Whiskey Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I am not a pro on DIY, but I do know that some of the butter flavorings have been talked about not being the best for you to inhale because of certain ingredients, Someone with more knowledge on them will no doubt help you out with it soon:)
     
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  3. Semi Reduction

    Semi Reduction VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Cheers whiskey, yea come to think of it, I could imagine that natural butter concentrates would have some nasties. Hopefully there's some synthetic alternatives. Thanks for the heads up :)
     
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  4. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Gold Contributor

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    Its your choice whether or not you want to use such flavors, for the risk of 'nasties'. I dont care about them, but others do.
    I have capella butter and havent been really impressed. Its possible I havnt found its niche yet. I always thought it would be good in a vanilla custard, well, It wasnt that great.
     
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  5. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    Capella butter I like in bakeries as an additive. At 0.5% it affects the finish in a buttery (lol) way, making it slightly wetter but the aroma wouldn't kick in until around 2% I think - I never went above 1.25%. This was a year ago before I cared about vaping safe stuff and even then the heaviness of it made me uncurious of the flavoring above 2%, it would start to feel oily, and pungent aromas would start to kick in and maybe affect the body of the flavor more. That was my thinking.

    It's just been off my radar since joining VU since I started mixing others recipes that were better than mine, and it's not a popular flavor. No warnings on BCV about it at the moment.. it's good @ low %'s and the finish is convincing and not like any other flavor I've tried.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  6. wllmc

    wllmc Yes there are typo's and no I do not care :) VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media

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    from a personal standpoint as a vapor I think its ok to use in moderation for those special vapes. you need to do a lot of research on D/A/AP and decide for yourself its its worth vaping or not. FA makes a butter flavor that I like to use on rare occasions to enhance something like you are trying but I wouldnt make it an ADV.

    (This does not reflect the views of that place I work for lol )
     
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  7. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    And I'll add that FA Butter is a really, really strong flavoring. Although it contains diacetyl, it's useful in exceptionally tiny amounts. If you choose to vape it as an ingredient, better make a 10% dilution first, then use that at sub-1% amounts. yeah, strong... flavor of browned butter.

    (This does not reflect the ingredients of any recipes I've ever posted or ever will lol)
     
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  8. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    You could try to use butter rum.. just a thought.. and avoid any of the nasty chemicals..

    Smoky doesnt play well with d and ap.. I found out, since vaping clean flavoring, it is very hard to vape ones that are not clean..
    Tried fa yogurt the other day, and it was like rancid butter.. after not vaping it for 8 months.. go figure.. :(
     
  9. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Name a butter rum flavoring without diketones.
     
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  10. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    oh shit.. yeps.. okies butterscotch.. say at .15% fa :D
    not awake here yet.. :rolleyes:
     
  11. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    Have you tried Capella's Cake Batter?
     
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  12. Semi Reduction

    Semi Reduction VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Thanks for all the valuable info guys, much appreciated. I'd rather stay away from nasty additives if possible.

    Haven't tried cake batter yet, but I've been meaning too. So there's nothing dodgy in cake batter and butter rum concentrates?.

    A good butterscotch would be handy too, which brand do you guys recommend?
     
  13. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    If by "dodgy" you mean diketones including butyric acid, cake batter (in fact, every cake and cupcake, batter or not) and every "butter rum" flavoring are dodgy.

    If you want a no-diketone butterscotch, the only choice is FlavourArt. Their Jamaican Rum is also clear of diketones. Put the two together, and you can make a diketone-free butter rum flavor yourself.
     
  14. Semi Reduction

    Semi Reduction VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Cheers Headinclouds. I don't know much about diketone.

    Edit - just did some research on diketone.
    Was familiar with diacetyl, didn't realise it was technically a diketone.

    Yea would rather not inhale diketones. Might not be so easy in practice though. I love my cakes and have inhaled a lot of it to date. Lol
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
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  15. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I hope one of the flavor companies can make a "butter line" something like..

    clear sweet butter
    warm melting butter
    spiced butters
    whipped butter/creamed butter
    (fa has rendered butter - browned butter- nutty, toasted taste)
    honey butter
    and cinnamon sugar butter..

    till then improvising is the best.. and the hardest.. things like cakes and popcorn.. still have issues too..
    but if you think on the tastes.. sometimes it isn't hard to make a substitute.. think of it as margarine :p

    here is just! an example.. I can not give the entire recipe out.. I wish I could.. but maybe this will lend ideas..

    Brown Sugar tfa
    Butterscotch fa
    Caramel fa
    Meringue fa

    if you do not want a nutty butter, take out the meringue..
    sorry I can not give percentages, but if you take your time.. it isnt hard to do.
     
  16. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Not so difficult or secret, really. Compare my use of those flavors here:
    http://vapingunderground.com/thread...er-trader-joes-or-lotus-biscoff-spread.32730/
    versus here: http://vapingunderground.com/thread...as-cookies-speculoos-speculaas-biscoff.32549/

    Meringue isn't nutty, but Marzipan is (it's almonds + Meringue). Any kind of nut flavor helps with the buttery effect, including coconut. You can find them in various ratios in many buttery cookie recipes, like this one: http://vapingunderground.com/threads/hics-almond-roca-butter-cookies.9376/
     
  17. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I wasn't referring to your recipes or how you do it, it's how I do mine.. nothing else. ;)
    I do get a nutty aftertaste with Meringue, in combination with other things.. it's still good for a nut butter effect.. :)
     
  18. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Basic takeaway - there are lots of ways to make buttery flavors without using diketones. :)
     
  19. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    [​IMG] lol :D butter..
     
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  20. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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  21. Heabob

    Heabob Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    :D

    I can get a buttery effect with FA Coconut used in low amounts, .5% or less, (in some recipes).
     
  22. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    This is your butter? I'm confused.
     
  23. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    part of my butter, yes.. :) I just can not give my recipe out.. sorry.
     
  24. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    I don't want the recipe. I just didn't understand what it was. If someone was looking to add just a butter flavor, those would change the flavor.
     
  25. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    Indeed!
     
  26. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    I love FA meringue, but there aren't butter notes to it, more eggy/sugar.
     
  27. Whiskey

    Whiskey Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    LOL, Smoky....That was TMI (GIF):D
     
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  28. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    so you have never seen butter caramelize? or added spices to your butter? never had eggs cooked in butter?
    butter is a malleable "thing" RP.. and true, if you had the recipe, you wouldn't have been confuzzed, and could pick out butter from an eggy/sugar.. or even had buttered nuts.. think on what you use butter for, or.. how butter is used in items you cook with..

    being the fact.. there is no "safe" butters to work with... yet.. maybe one day, till then, i don't know about you.. i haven't really gone searching for any of your recipes.. but I use what I have to make do with for now.. ideas make the vape world go round.. and if i stuck with my list and it keeps me and mine happy.. then.. I can believe it's butter.. :)

    lol yeps Whiskey.. butter baths w00tz! :) I bet she puts us all to shame! :p

     
  29. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    true.. for some.. coconut oil is used to cook things and can often feel like butter..
    but there are some super tasters that can pick it out as coconut..
     
  30. Whiskey

    Whiskey Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yep yep

    [​IMG]
     
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  31. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    omy.. lol.. :D the funny is, i was thinking on butters the other day.. glad I am not the only one..
     
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  32. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    What the ? Of course I've used butter to cook. The OP wanted to know if there was a good butter without diketones. I was commenting that if someone merely wanted a butter flavor, adding the additional flavors (while delicious) would obviously change the flavor...and hence not just be a butter flavor.
     
  33. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    the issue is there is no safe butter flavor, without making combinations and that.. was my point.
    I posted earlier, half awake.. this bit..
    and corrected myself here..

    then gave some of my flavors out I use.. not a full recipe.. to get to this point here.. that is what the...

    does it make sense now? or just use the butter flavors a few companies offer, full of the bad stuff... either way.. what ever makes you happy.. its why its called diy, and why i do things my way to make me happy, just like you do. :) right?
     
  34. Teresa P

    Teresa P Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    For what it's worth..... I have capella's butter flavor and have used it in very small doses, but for whatever reason, I did take the dropper top off the bottle and used a glass dropper to mix with it once. It left a greasy film on the glass. Not pretty when I considered it was going in my lungs....:confused:
     
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  35. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    it's scary, really.. and yeah clean juice means a lot to some, and some don't care..
    but I have more fun in playing around with the flavoring and mixing to see what i can make..
    I have vaped so much clean flavoring now.. I have issues with yogurts, and other things I really used to enjoy..
    it's a shame in a way, but at least now I know.. i get a rancid butter taste with yogurts.. :(

    I had a juice too, first since Slam.. someone sent to me.. I hate to call out a name of a company.. but..
    when i see things that look like oil patches in my juice.. I just cant do a thing with it, including vaping it or giving it away..
    rather play nice and fair than to get me or anyone else sick.
     
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  36. lirruping

    lirruping Silver Contributor

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    I've noticed (through my frequent flavor spills :/) that many, many flavors have a greasy feel to the fingers--not just the diketone ones.

    I've never used a butter flavor, but my current guess (from my limited experimentation and a lot more reading about other people's DIY successes) is that AP in small amounts and with the right flavor buddies is often central to creating non-diketone butteriness and creaminess. I am getting a little more fluent with the (manifold) uses of AP, getting used to how it smells in different contexts and stuff, and I swear, even FA Fresh Cream seems to have it in it. Coconut, too, and sometimes fa Walnut, as others have said, add buttery feeling in small amounts. And I wonder if coconut has AP in it, too!

    btw, butyric acid IS considered a diketone?
     
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  37. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    [​IMG] Kind of scary what all is on our flavorings..
     
  38. lirruping

    lirruping Silver Contributor

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    I was under the impression that the newish tfa DX flavors, which sub butyric acid for acetoin and acetyl propionyl were non-diketone, but I haven't looked closely at it and haven't tried any of them.
     
  39. lirruping

    lirruping Silver Contributor

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    Ok, yes: here is what it says under the DX Banana Cream:
    "
    DX Banana Cream
    A diketone(Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl)-free version of our original Banana Cream!"
     
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  40. lirruping

    lirruping Silver Contributor

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    Also this, though--on the TFA site re butyric acid:

    This is the ingredient that other flavor companies are now using to replace Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl for flavors like Vanilla Custard, and we were asked to create similar substitutions. We want to stress that Butyric Acid can also be a source of irritation to the lungs.
     
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  41. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Depending on your tolerance.. easy when smelling them.. I can smell it from the moment I open them up. :(

    [​IMG]
     
  42. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    What, you don't enjoy the human vomit scent of butyric acid? lol Not everyone gets that from it, apparently.
     
  43. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    nopes.. not all.. i just got lucky.. and wish it was all good, but....

    i bet he likes it [​IMG]
     
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  44. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    i cant do fa yogurt either.. apparently.. rancid butter gone bad is just not my thang.. :(
     
  45. lirruping

    lirruping Silver Contributor

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    what the HECK is that machine doing to the stick o butter?
    I find myself weirdly drawn to it... whatever it is. Probably this diet I'm on.
     
  46. Semi Reduction

    Semi Reduction VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Sorry about the late response guys, hectic week, but many thank you's for all the feedback.
    Some great information and tips here for me to ponder over.
    Again, much appreciated :)
     
  47. jay223119

    jay223119 New Member

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    Is there a list anywhere of flavors that have diacetyl/diketones in it? And why do people not like to put these in their juices? @HeadInClouds do any of your recipes use flavors with these things in it?
     
  48. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    When I post a recipe with - or even a mention of flavoring I know has - diketones, I always try to mention it right there. In fact I often mention it even if I just suspect it does, but the vendor won't disclose their ingredients. Sometimes I publicly doubt some vendors' denials. That irritates some people sometimes, but I know there are vapers who really need the info, and I post with them in mind. I like to find new ways to make similar or better flavors using non-diketone flavorings. When that's not possible and I take the easy way out (using diketones) I say so. It's not often.
     
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  49. jay223119

    jay223119 New Member

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    Perfect thanks for the info :) Waiting on many many flavors to get here then going to start working on many of your tasty sounding recipes. Could you tell me do your recipes work good mixing by weight or is it better to use the old school non scale method? Do you personally do it by weight if so what scale do you use?
     
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  50. Teresa P

    Teresa P Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I can answer this one - I mixed many of HIC's recipes the "old school" way before I got my scales and now I mix everything with them. If you follow his recipes as they're written, there is no difference between either method regarding taste and vape. Awesome either way. ;)
    Those of us who do use scales do it for convenience. There's a lot less mess and the process takes less space in the work area (does for me anyway). You'll be happy with your results if you use the ingredients he recommends and in the measurements he recommends, I promise.
     
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