CBD Vapes - VICE Research

Discussion in 'CBD Discussions' started by Jamie Vice, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. Jamie Vice

    Jamie Vice New Member

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    Hi there,

    I'm a journalist at VICE in the UK currently working on the High Society series. We're looking into a story concerning CBD vapes, after hearing of a number of people who've had negative experiences vaping what they were told was CBD. These people have reported experiencing psychoactive effects, shortness of breath, anxiety and other symptoms. Tests done on some of these CBD products revealed that they contained Spice or other similar synthetic drugs.

    If you've had any negative experiences with CBD related products, please PM me
    Thanks,
    Jamie
     
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  2. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    a simple google search will most likely answer everything for you here LMGTFY this so called negative experience is most likely lipid phenomena caused by OBJECTIVE. Lipoid pneumonia results from accumulation of lipids in the alveoli and can be either exogenous or endogenous in cause based on the source of the lipid. Exogenous lipoid pneumonia is caused by inhalation or aspiration of animal fat or vegetable or mineral oil.

    aka improper juice added to a vape tank these cbd juices are not meant for inhalation yet these teens may or may not know this and the carts are most likely the result of an illegal sale via either a bad vendor or person and to play devil's advocate these experiences are so called new only in an american election year when you may find a public ballot to ban them. this is at most likely a cherry picked scare for the uneducated masses. no one vapes because it is safe and i have been doing so since the cigalike days at least 10years with no issues. then again i dont inhale oil based products.
     
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  3. Jamie Vice

    Jamie Vice New Member

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    Thanks for your reply! Of the juices being tested an alarming number of them are coming back as having little to no CBD in them, and instead containing Spice of other synthetic cannabinoids, although you're right there may be other factors. I'm looking to speak to anyone who purchased what they thought was CBD and ended up experiencing symptoms that are not typical of CBD consumption. Thanks
     
  4. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    so your cherry picking only the bad experiences. on a pro vaping site full of well educated vapers good luck.
     
  5. Jamie Vice

    Jamie Vice New Member

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    This isn't an anti-vaping or an anti-CBD story at all, far from it. Unfortunately some consumers of what should be a useful and in many cases essential product are being ripped off, being miss-sold an incorrect and sometimes dangerous substance in it's place, and we want to explore the problems with the industry in the UK that allow this to occur. Thank you for your help though.
     
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  6. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member VU Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Mod Team Leader Member For 5 Years

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    it seems like over here we have some idiot making illegal counterfeit drug carts using oil as a cuttung agent which causes lipoid pneumonia.

    http://vapingunderground.com/thread...ehind-dozens-of-lung-illnesses-in-u-s.495733/

    http://vapingunderground.com/threads/dont-vape-vitamin-e-oil-seriously-its-really-stupid.498795/

    With the CBD pre filled tanks people think they are going to feel some sort of buzz.
    Of course CBD is one of the non psychoactive cannabinoids so that's not how it works.

    Once a person finds a CBD brand that may be adulterated and they feel a little buzz they think that's how CBD is supposed to work.

    The "feeling" may by a mental thing or the CBD product may have a small amount of THC in it which is allowed and they may be feeling that.

    The vape shop / online vape vendors mostly sell well known legitimate brands and I doubt that's the problem.
    The well known legit companies (like KOI) aren't going to risk a multi million dollar money making operation to add some garbage to their product.

    I usually see the sketchy looking stuff in corner stores that sell everything.
    They have a little glass case with kratom, CBD products, sex aid pills, etc,,, in it.

    It's usually brands that I've never heard of that are sketch.
    Most likely someone making the stuff in their basement bottling and labeling it themselves.

    Right now in the US it's the prefilled carts that everyone is trying to avoid.

    Pro Tip:
    Go to eBay right now, search for "empty carts" and you will see the part of the problem.

    upload_2019-9-5_9-20-11.png


    upload_2019-9-5_9-20-54.png

    This is counterfeit empty packaging that's flooding the market from China.
    People can buy these then put whatever they want into them and sell them as "authentic".

    It's really not hard to see how something bad could end up in these things.

    It's a well known fact that the Chinese sell counterfeit juul pods and counterfeit packaging for THC carts so I'm sure they could make counterfeit packaging for CBD as well.

    https://nypost.com/2019/04/10/a-tale-of-two-juul-pods-chinas-counterfeits-pose-a-threat-to-us/
     
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  7. Jamie Vice

    Jamie Vice New Member

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    Hi, thanks so much for this.

    Yes we've found the majority of products causing problems tend to be bought from less reputable vendors, like corner shops or through Instagram. Unfortunately this means most of these products end up in the hands of minors, or people who may find it difficult to get their hands on legitimate CBD legally.

    Have you experienced any problems with products you've bought before?
    Thanks
     
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  8. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Still, the number of cases of teens being affected is remarkably small compared to the millions of vapers using nic (and straight up CBD juice designed to be vaped.)
    I understand that you want to report on this story. But please, be careful not to throw vaping out with the spice bath water-or however the saying goes. Vaping is under fire in the US, and it could use some truthful clarity, instead of more teen vaping scare stories.
    Having said that, I’m sorry that spice or contaminated carts messed up these kids.


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  9. Rooster Cogburn

    Rooster Cogburn The Right Hand of God: SWAT!!!bitches!! VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee VU SWAT Reddit Exile

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    Hey Jamie I’ve bought CBD isolate and made my own CBD vape juice by adding it to pg/vg and I’ve bought CBD tincture which uses oils so are not vapeable I use it under my tongue. I’ve never had any problems with either but I’ve bought from legitimate vendors who provide batch numbers and lab reports. It a shame that anyone is being sold these dangerous products and like you said it’s usually kids or folks on the fringes without ability to deal with legitimate vendors. This is why I hope no government entity bans our vaping products because that would cause a huge rise in this problem with no one being able to deal with legitimate sources. I look forward to your story and please keep us informed on where we can find it when completed.
     
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  10. Droogbc

    Droogbc Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  11. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Spot on, Mr. C! Thanks, I was a little pissed off when I wrote my comment after reading all kinds of nonsense lumping nic vaping in with whatever black market dreck these kids were using!

    I almost bought CBD isolate from Plain Jane to try and add to juice. You might want to start a thread about how you’re doing it.
    I only use CBD () to get to sleep. It doesn’t have a high to speak of, so these kids must’ve tried to vape some kind of THC stuff.


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  12. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Thanks, droog. I’ve never read anything by them.


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  13. Droogbc

    Droogbc Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Based on a lot of their vape related coverage it seemed clear they were no friend to the community, at least when it came to vaping nicotine. Standard fear mongering, but extra hyped. Then I find this:

    https://www.ft.com/content/9015a516-4b1d-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d

    They're literally in bed with Big Tobacco.
     
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  14. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    :blowkiss: for your great reply!!


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  15. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member VU Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Mod Team Leader Member For 5 Years

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    I like this thread.


    Actually this is a very rare time when the media are actually doing the right thing.

    They are asking actual vapers about a vaping issue that they are writing a story on.

    Usually the media will ask some emergency room nurse or some clown in tobacco control who has no education on the subject and even less of a clue what they are talking about.
    When they do that they end up getting told some dumb shit like "we don't know what's in them" or "they aren't FDA approved" (like cigarettes are) which is no help to them for what they are trying to write about.
     
  16. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I couldn’t access the FT article, but from what you’re saying it sounds like if we all were vaping chronic juice, we’d be their poster kids. (If I’m gonna go play with MJ, I’d rather combust! )
    Maybe Vice is trying to move negative attention off of weed and onto nic vaping. Sleazy maneuver, if so.
    How does BT fit in with Vice, though?


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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  17. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I really hope he listens to us and is fair in his judgment, though. But at least he did ask us!
    The “we don’t know what’s in it” thing is such bullshit! The FDA makes them list the ingredients! But the FDA is so overstepping it’s authority here. Mods have nothing to do with them, and neither really does juice.
    So many ultra processed foods with “natural and artificial flavors” are sold but they’re not required by the FDA to reveal what they are. We could say “we don’t know what’s in it” about soda or cookies!


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  18. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member VU Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Mod Team Leader Member For 5 Years

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    Google: "Marlboro maker teams up with Vice for vaping push"

    Basically PMI wants to help smokers to switch to vaping and asked Vice to help.
     
  19. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    So, will they be pushing those IQOS things? With $5 million in the offing, Vice said yes to PMI, of course!
    The worst Deeming case scenario would be having to use those IQOS or ENDS things to get nic without smoking.


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  20. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Is this a vaping industry problem if these are black market items? I’m not sure that any legitimate vape juice company would flog carts with spice or any other illegal dreck in it.

    But thanks for coming here for info, Jamie. We’d be more than happy to help you out!


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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  21. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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  22. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The core of the problem is yellow journalism and corrupt health organizations are trying to inflict as much damage on the vaping industry as possible by using mass manipulation and unscrupulous anti-science tactics. So basically, despite this isn't a vaping industry problem, if the media keeps repeating that it is a vaping industry problem enough times, then, eventually, it will BECOME a vaping industry problem, and, IMO the big tobacco companies are just looking to monopolize the vaping industry to then turn it into another cash cow because, let's not forget that PMI are owned by Altria─the Biggest Tobacco company that bought JUUL which represents 70% of the vaping industry's revenue, and that didn't oppose FDA's recent decision to move the PMTA deadline to 12 May 2020─which is headquartered in, err... Ban Francisco.
     
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  23. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Do you think that Juul will get FDA approval or that Altria will come up with some other high mg nic salt pod? Or something equally shitty for us as vapers to use?


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  24. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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  25. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    they will do whatever is in there investors interest.
    they are not out to make a safer alternative that is non addictive they want the consumer to keep coming back to further increase their market share and profit margin.
    right now the vapinging industry is to wide open they want to shut down alternatives and force the market there way. the best way to get this to happen is to support all these for the children and all that jazz.
     
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  26. susieqz

    susieqz Silver Contributor

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    which brands have spice in them?
     
  27. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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  28. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    You don't think a holding company that makes more than 6 billion dollars in profit each year can manage to figure out SOME way to come up with something that will rub the FDA the right way? Remember, this is all about Eddie Money and Johnny Cash. My main concern is that, if the PMTA deadline of 12 May 2020 remains unchanged, smaller manufacturers that develop new and innovative high quality products are going the way of the dodo, like, 90 percent of them, maybe more. The Vapor Technology Association (VTA) and Vapor Stockroom (VSR) recently filed a lawsuit against the FDA because the FDA doesn't have the authority to move the PMTA deadline the way that they did, and, this is despite a federal judge had decided that the FDA must move this deadline to 10 months after his court decision was published. Next, JUUL left the VTA because JUUL doesn't want to be associated with any legal battle against the FDA. It would be naive to think that this wasn't because Altria are confident that the PMTA deadline is going to blow the competition out of the water so monopoly always wins because, on so many levels, human ethics in public health are just an illusion... it always has been.

    This is why the Royal College of Physicians are of such vital importance right now, with emphasis on vital. Because, here in the EU right now we have been experiencing a phenomenon that is in certain ways strikingly similar to the story behind JUUL, i.e there's this pod system called Vype, which is owned by British American Tobacco, and that revolves more about mass marketing and making a huge profit, much less about truly helping smokers stop smoking. Meanwhile, public health insurance here in Belgium covers the first 3 consultations if you go to see a tobaccologist whose methods closely resemble the movie titled The Exorcist. Like, asking a patient to lay down, moving hands around above the patient, and yelling: Be gone, foul cigs! :crazy:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
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  29. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Somehow I always thought living in Belgium or the EU in general, would be somewhat cooler or better than here!
    I guess kids are Vyping all over the place instead of Juuling. I know a lot of ppl like pods here on VU, but I can’t get down with them. Like you said, if I had started vaping with a pod, not sure I’d have quit!!
    Really surprised that a tabac exorcism doesn’t work! :giggle:


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  30. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I have nothing against pods (as long as they are safe enough), even though I can't see myself vaping on one, BUT... to the vast majority of people who smoke cigs, pods aren't the best way to stop smoking, far from it in fact, and that is despite (decent) pods typically are extremely easy to use, their convenience factor really is high, and, generally they are relatively inexpensive so that makes them very popular of course... unfortunately however, this same popularity is detrimental to the popularity of more powerful─and therefore typically much more expensive if you want them to be decent quality ones equally also─devices that could prevent a lot more people from going back to cigs after having "tried" vaping.

    In Belgium, unlike our neighboring EU member states like The Netherlands, Germany, or France, it is illegal to sell vaping products to consumers online. It's also illegal to advertise vaping products excepting only in-store marketing, and that's only IF this in-store marketing in question complies with regulations that are also pretty strict. In addition, vaping in public indoor spaces has been outlawed also, same as in Florida despite AFAIK we have no offshore drilling going on here. (Any and all of our drilling happens within our gov't, which is where all the taxpayer money keeps disappearing into the deep hole that, per usual of course, they are constantly drilling deeper and deeper.)
     
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  31. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    So you can’t buy any vape gear online?! I get the no indoor vaping, it’s standard in NYC. It’s like if you couldn’t smoke there, you can’t vape there. Why is Belgium so strict, though? So you’d have to go to a neighboring *country* for some stuff!
    It’s so crazy what’s going on, and it’s not limited to the nutters who live here, apparently. :depressing:


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  32. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Retailers can still buy online, BUT... to get them to order the stuff I want I had to suck their dick at least 15 times. So now I simply blackmail them instead. :giggle:
     
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  33. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    LOL Thank you, mon ami. I needed a good laugh. If I was in the subway, I would have gotten strange looks!! And yes, definitely blackmail their perverted asses! :giggle:

    So, do you think Boris (or BoJo lol) is going to end up in jail? Have you been keeping up with the Brexit insanity?


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  34. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    How exactly does one keep up with insanity anyway? :p
     
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  35. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    It’s really crazy in the UK now, but hopefully there will be no Brexit or some soft exit.
    I have trouble enough with the craziness in my own life now! Lol


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  36. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I expect the EU will be handing full support to the Republic of Ireland no matter what happens to Brexit, and, there can be no renegotiations between the UK and the EU about Brexit every 3 months so Boris either lands himself in jail or he puts his money where his mouth is... dead in a ditch.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0908/1074591-brexit-britain-ireland
     
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  37. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    If they could postpone it and work something out AND get Boris dead in a ditch, it would be great. He’s like some shmoe you hated in high school that became PM. Or just in jail for contempt is good, too! :giggle


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  38. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    If they could postpone it and work something out, that would be entirely great especially for the UK because of how the alternative choice looks like, which isn't even a real choice anyway in the first place excepting maybe to those who can't manage to wipe the shite out of their own eyes. Unfortunately however, we've had our fair share of "history always repeats itself"... multiple times in fact, and, as far as Boris is concerned, they can't send him to the chamber of horrors in Madame Tussauds museum because the chamber closed on 11 April 2016. :cheers:
     
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  39. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Unfortunately the Remainers did leave it a bit late in the day to try to do something. But it really does seem like they will be able to block this no deal bullshit. Corbyn is doing pretty well considering, imo.
    I think it’s pretty great too that some of the MPs are resigning rather than go along with Boris, but they are prolly also thinking about their reputations way down the road. This whole situation will be very historic.
    We get RTE news on a local channel but I haven’t watched lately. Thanks for the link.


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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  40. Droogbc

    Droogbc Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  41. psom0ne

    psom0ne New Member

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    I hate Vice. Always have. Pfft. And fuck Boris, too. Fils de pute.
     
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  42. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    There’s a Russian saying, “Fuck your mother, Boris.”


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  43. psom0ne

    psom0ne New Member

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    :bingo::mooncat: What is that ____ Boris doing anyway? He's as big a buffoon...as...well, you know. All of 'em.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  44. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    He does nada en particular, as it were. It’s a mad, mad times ten world now. WTH?


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  45. psom0ne

    psom0ne New Member

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    I've got a story to tell about this from some very kind and intelligent Brits I met in a small village in France, but it's too long. One of their brothers was an attorney for Jeremy Corbyn. It was a great conversation. But I don't wanna derail the threads. :)
     
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  46. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I think Vice has pissed off back to wherever, and it would be fun to hear, imho. Jeremy C has been stepping up to the plate, it seems!
    If anyone complains, I didn’t encourage you in this. :teehee:


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  47. psom0ne

    psom0ne New Member

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    Vice. lol.
     
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  48. psom0ne

    psom0ne New Member

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    Oh, when anyone comes in parroting "nanny state," that just connotes right wing. Pollywanna. Neoliberalism is the rule of the day, not pol ideology.
     
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  49. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    the following is my personal thoughts and not that of staff VU or my position.


    i think OP real intent was to just get cheery picked info that they wont get or to simply use this thread as a way to legitimize their sources. if they ever come back it is my hope they learn one thing and that is that they are no real " journalist " there title should be scammer or shill. we told them what this so called condition was yet they went with the stop vaping angle what it should have been dont vape oils.
     
  50. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yeah, this part right here is where I stopped reading it:
    So, basically, Vice are suggesting that, when it comes to the ones who haven't admitted they'd been using electronic vitamins, prof MeiLan K. Han was hiding under their couch even before they got sick. The bottom line is, don't let your nuts get caught in this thing called Vice. :cheers:
     
    Rhianne likes this.

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