Clouds

[KappaCory]

So I'm not new to vaping and I can build really great coils, not to sound egotistical or arrogant but they are almost always perfect, but I still struggle to understand clouds sometimes. I have watched videos of guys with clones vs authentic s both blowing massive MASSIVE clouds and I can't quite seem to touch it myself. I know lighting affects alot of clouds as well as technique for breathing and exhaling.

So just to give an example

even with a copper flagship (which is good to me) all copper contacts, running a darkhorse (various builds inside of it ranging from 24g to 22g builds around a .12 to .08 ohm) I still cannot chuck massive clouds, at best I'll have a decent sized cloud but one that dissipates quickly after 4 feet and barley makes it 6 feet, and that's dissipating quickly at that range. I'm blown away since have tried watching and mimicking videos and yet nothing yields results even close to the 9 to 12 feet clouds I see people blowing that are just dense as hell. I know max vg is the way to go with drippers but hey any advice from you guys would be great because that's what I desire is dense clouds and a lot of it. Plus I like to help educate anyone I help with dripping. Right now I'd be way too embarrassed to enter any cloud competition with the puny clouds I'm producing. (well puny to me)

Advice will be followed and well appreciated.

 

[KappaCory]

i should mention that in the videos it even seems their weakest hit is similar to mine but very dense none the less, like they're not even trying.

 

[vaperature]

I'm curious about that as well, not that I'd personally want to inhale that much vapor, but just curious what they're doing to achieve such thick white clouds.

 

[Wern314]

KappaCory you read my mind. Lol. I've been struggling with this for months and I've experimented with so many different builds. I own a Stingray X mod and an IPV3, Dark Horse, Doge, Plumeveil and I can't match half of what I've seen others blow. I've used 20, 22, 24, 26awg, parallel coils, twisted you name it. I understand the fundamentals (ie. Airflow, wicking, inhale/exhale technique, heat flux ect..) but I'm obviously missing a few key factors.

For me pairing great flavor and nice dense vapor is the icing on the cake, especially when it's on something you built from scratch.

At this point it's become a mission just to say I can accomplish it. I've learned so much on the way and so it's been a very worthwhile learning experience. One day we will get there and until then more forum posts and videos to ponder.

Please if anyone can chime in on this it would be greatly appreciated.


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[Neunerball]

Lots of VG! At least 80VG/20PG.

 

[Wern314]

That simple fact i did know but still nothing to brag about vapor wise. I had thought to myself is all VG created equally or does can it differ depending on the retailer? I've tried straight VG from 3 different retailers which I use for DIY with pretty much the same results.


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[Neunerball]

 

[KappaCory]

While I do appreciate the videos and the helpful max vg suggestion, I have been vaping since about 8 months now so nearly a year, within my 2nd week vaping I had to do dripping since it wasn't satisfying me, so i've been on varying grades of pg/vg ratios and can say all i have been doing is max, max being 80-95% vg. I have seen many videos on the subject but regardless the outcomes don't seem to be changing and I quite literally copy build down to the grade of wire. I wonder what I am doing wrong or if its just all videos sit in a fixed lighting and clouds never actually get that big? I'm a pretty intelligent and dedicated vapor but this is a bit heart crushing for me.

 

[KappaCory]

if a guy can outshine your best mod by blowing a 12 foot cloud with a cloned plumeveil out of a cloned nemesis with crap contacts using a dual 22g at a .15 ohm build, then what the hell can I do with an authentic freaking dark horse with the same build and rivaling air flow, on an authentic copper contacts copper flagship, using max vg, with great cotton, and barley producing 6 feet with weak ass density. Logically it doesn't make any sense to me where as he barley inhales, maybe 7 seconds, and I can do 10 easily.

 

[KappaCory]

Gosh, I don't mean any of this as arrogant.

 

[Anus Braun]

if a guy can outshine your best mod by blowing a 12 foot cloud with a cloned plumeveil out of a cloned nemesis with crap contacts using a dual 22g at a .15 ohm build, then what the hell can I do with an authentic freaking dark horse with the same build and rivaling air flow, on an authentic copper contacts copper flagship, using max vg, with great cotton, and barley producing 6 feet with weak ass density. Logically it doesn't make any sense to me where as he barley inhales, maybe 7 seconds, and I can do 10 easily.

Bear in MIND...lung capacity, speed of inhale, exhale are factors in the realm of 'clouding'..

 

[freemind]

Have you tried drilling out your holes to get more airflow over the coil? Chuff caps?

 

[KappaCory]

in regards to anus braun and freemind, yes to both, I have a darkhorse with the chuff cap and it is well known by most that it is equal to any rda of master airflow by far, almost too much (you can adjust though) and I have tried multiple styles of inhale exhale, I'm just not sure. Of course it does help when juice is steeped, but not major.

 

[KappaCory]

tried some omega tiger wire, seems to be improved but not much.

 

[Wern314]

While I do appreciate the videos and the helpful max vg suggestion, I have been vaping since about 8 months now so nearly a year, within my 2nd week vaping I had to do dripping since it wasn't satisfying me, so i've been on varying grades of pg/vg ratios and can say all i have been doing is max, max being 80-95% vg. I have seen many videos on the subject but regardless the outcomes don't seem to be changing and I quite literally copy build down to the grade of wire. I wonder what I am doing wrong or if its just all videos sit in a fixed lighting and clouds never actually get that big? I'm a pretty intelligent and dedicated vapor but this is a bit heart crushing for me.

I agree that the videos are helpful. I've also copied builds down to the letter T yet i still can't match the vapor performance.

Also a note I haven't seen mentioned yet is that humidity can have a strong affect on vapor performance. In a very humid environment vapor lingers a lot longer whereas in dry air it dissipates quickly so maybe that has something to do with it. I live in the northeast so it being winter and running heat inside my home the air is very dry. Come this summer we'll see if this affect has an impact.


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[KappaCory]

interesting considering my shop does have an air purifier to keep the shop dry and clean.

 

[Rommel]

Well, best clouds i've ever gotten have been with FUhattan copper mod topped of with Doge atty w/chuff cap and 0.08 ohm dual 22ga sleeper parallels. There are some ins and outs you need to figure out to be able to kick really great clouds, near impossible to give any advice on the internet.

 

[Wern314]

Well, best clouds i've ever gotten have been with FUhattan copper mod topped of with Doge atty w/chuff cap and 0.08 ohm dual 22ga sleeper parallels. There are some ins and outs you need to figure out to be able to kick really great clouds, near impossible to give any advice on the internet.

What is the ID you use for this coil?


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[Rommel]

What is the ID you use for this coil?


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3mm, four wraps. Anything smaller than 3mm affects wicking. If you replicate this build do so safely, only Sony batteries. Genuine, that is. Theres a thread at Battery Junkies, go check it out.

 

[Wern314]

How high do you position the coil to the airflow holes? I ask because I also own a doge but I think my coil position with airflow slots is wrong for some reason? Thx for the responses.


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[Rommel]

How high do you position the coil to the airflow holes? I ask because I also own a doge but I think my coil position with airflow slots is wrong for some reason? Thx for the responses.


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Top of the coils is on the same level as the postscrews. That way the airflow can hit the coils in a large area and come wooshing in to the top. Never got any flavor from that, but it was a cloud setup so who cares.

 

[vapedape]

I have to been trying to understand the cloud build itself aswell. I find as far as visual a spotlight helps. I am blowing a small amount of vapor out but I am directly under a flood light. I found air movement in the room has allot to do with the big tricks on table.

"How something appears is always a matter of perspective"

 

[Neunerball]

Top of the coils is on the same level as the postscrews. That way the airflow can hit the coils in a large area and come wooshing in to the top. Never got any flavor from that, but it was a cloud setup so who cares.

I've had good flavor experience with a DIY juice, that was made with Nude Nicotine's "Citrus Slap", on my Mutation X V3 and a 0.2 Ohm dual coil @ 70W. I was about to ditch the juice, 'cause it didn't please me on other RDA builds at 0.3-0.5 Ohm

 

[Wern314]

What is the build your using? Wire gauge, ID ect...? I actually have a mutation x v3 coming in the mail today I'm super pumped.


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[Neunerball]

That was a dual 22g Kanthal A1, 8/7 wrap around 2.4mm. You'll like that Mutation X V3. I have 3 of them now. Not counting the Mutation XL V3 for my 26650 Stingray X clone.
BTW, the new CLT V3 is nice too. It has even more airflow than the Mutation X V3.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Oh dear. I'm a MX junkie and missed the memo about the V3. Good thing it's tax refund time. Sigh. I'm going to wait until at least tomorrow to google that. I swear.

To the OP, it sounds like you've really done your footwork and you've been at it longer than I have. I spent a lot of time calculating coils at steam engine and paying attention to heat flux and heat capacity. I go for higher flux (~300 metric) and lower capacity (<55). I can only achieve that with parallel coils (haven't made the leap to quad coils). I've tried the 22, 23, 24 regular coils with a small number of wraps and it's just hotter with less vapor production. Those setups also have quicker dry hits for me as well. With my (relatively) cool parallel setups and tightly wicked organic or Jap cotton I have a nice warning hit before the 'omgfuckvapingiwanttodie' hit happens.

If you're comfy with less than 0.14ohms (over 30A) try 24ga parallels, 1/8" ID at 6 wraps. It's angry. I took that build out though because I was scared for my batteries.

As previously stated, lighting and post-production is a huge factor. Just ask RIP. He can make a Kayfun cloud look dense.

When in doubt, suck it really hard.....?

Next step, more voltage. More volts at the same watts = less amps.

 

[Daniel]

When in doubt, suck it really hard.....? That's what I told her....

 

[Wern314]

Ok so I've had the Mutation X V3 for a few days now and I'm really enjoying it. I was having the same experience as KeyserSoze with the lower gauge builds, it's just hotter with less vapor production. My current build is a dual 26g on 7/64 ID (2.78mm), 10.5 wraps at .68 ohms and it's the best cloud density I've ever produced. Thanks to my IPV3 I've been vaping it between 70-90 watts. My preferred vape is a heat flux right around 250 mW/mm2. I plan on experimenting more with adding more surface area. Steam Engine is a godsend, understanding how to use it can really enhance your vape skills.

Here's pics of my current build.


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[KeyserSoze]

Ok so I've had the Mutation X V3 for a few days now and I'm really enjoying it. I was having the same experience as KeyserSoze with the lower gauge builds, it's just hotter with less vapor production. My current build is a dual 26g on 7/64 ID (2.78mm), 10.5 wraps at .68 ohms and it's the best cloud density I've ever produced. Thanks to my IPV3 I've been vaping it between 70-90 watts. My preferred vape is a heat flux right around 250 mW/mm2. I plan on experimenting more with adding more surface area. Steam Engine is a godsend, understanding how to use it can really enhance your vape skills.

Yes. That times 1000. Also, nice looking coils!

I'm rocking a 24ga dual build in my MX2 on the IPV3 right now. 10(?) wraps, 1/8" for 0.45 ohms. It has a nice usable range from 55W (3 holes closed) to 100W (wide open). I can get a lot of different notes from most juices depending on the wattage. I might try the same with 23ga next time and see how I like it before going back to 25ga. Then back to 24ga to make sure which was best. You know how it goes. Been meaning to mess around with triple and quad twisted wires, fused claptons etc. Been too busy mixing juice and rewicking instead of building all of the crazy coils I want to build. Anyone want to donate to the "KeyserSoze builds coils and mixes juice all day and still makes the mortgage payment" campaign? It only takes about $100 a day... Hooray crowdfunding!

 

[Wern314]

25g has intrigued me it's seems like the perfect medium. I plan on making an order from Lightning Vapes along with some nichrome80.


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[KeyserSoze]

I dig 25ga personally. It's definitely a nice balance of low heat capacity and low resistance. Works great in parallel coils on a mech or in regular dual coils on a regulated mod.

+1 for lightning Vapes. I have sooo much kanthal bc of that site. I laugh at B+M prices now.

 

[montijo505]

Ok so I've had the Mutation X V3 for a few days now and I'm really enjoying it. I was having the same experience as KeyserSoze with the lower gauge builds, it's just hotter with less vapor production. My current build is a dual 26g on 7/64 ID (2.78mm), 10.5 wraps at .68 ohms and it's the best cloud density I've ever produced. Thanks to my IPV3 I've been vaping it between 70-90 watts. My preferred vape is a heat flux right around 250 mW/mm2. I plan on experimenting more with adding more surface area. Steam Engine is a godsend, understanding how to use it can really enhance your vape skills.

Here's pics of my current build. View attachment 14622View attachment 14623


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Damn, those coils are perfect,make mine look sloppy lol


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[Wern314]

You could say I have a mild obsession with coil symmetry. Lol. I have to give credit to the Coil Master Coiler and Artistic Wire Gizmo. Both are great tools for making perfect coils.



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[nameonawall]

Ok so I've had the Mutation X V3 for a few days now and I'm really enjoying it. I was having the same experience as KeyserSoze with the lower gauge builds, it's just hotter with less vapor production. My current build is a dual 26g on 7/64 ID (2.78mm), 10.5 wraps at .68 ohms and it's the best cloud density I've ever produced. Thanks to my IPV3 I've been vaping it between 70-90 watts. My preferred vape is a heat flux right around 250 mW/mm2. I plan on experimenting more with adding more surface area. Steam Engine is a godsend, understanding how to use it can really enhance your vape skills.

Here's pics of my current build. View attachment 14622View attachment 14623


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That's clean. I use the same set up on a daily basis. Ipv3 and a mutation.

 

[Reuven Tenam]

So I'm not new to vaping and I can build really great coils, not to sound egotistical or arrogant but they are almost always perfect, but I still struggle to understand clouds sometimes. I have watched videos of guys with clones vs authentic s both blowing massive MASSIVE clouds and I can't quite seem to touch it myself. I know lighting affects alot of clouds as well as technique for breathing and exhaling.

So just to give an example

even with a copper flagship (which is good to me) all copper contacts, running a darkhorse (various builds inside of it ranging from 24g to 22g builds around a .12 to .08 ohm) I still cannot chuck massive clouds, at best I'll have a decent sized cloud but one that dissipates quickly after 4 feet and barley makes it 6 feet, and that's dissipating quickly at that range. I'm blown away since have tried watching and mimicking videos and yet nothing yields results even close to the 9 to 12 feet clouds I see people blowing that are just dense as hell. I know max vg is the way to go with drippers but hey any advice from you guys would be great because that's what I desire is dense clouds and a lot of it. Plus I like to help educate anyone I help with dripping. Right now I'd be way too embarrassed to enter any cloud competition with the puny clouds I'm producing. (well puny to me)

Advice will be followed and well appreciated.

The trick to massive clouds is 100% VG. I own a vape shop and hold cloud comps. We only use VG, not e juice. Now the thing i do that my customers love
is i flavor the VG with syrup, or stevia. Any syrup will do. There isn't any pg so, that's how it's done.

I'm curious about that as well, not that I'd personally want to inhale that much vapor, but just curious what they're doing to achieve such thick white clouds.

We use \100% VG for our cloud comp. Not flavored With concentrates. However we flavor the VG with syrup or stevia. It's safe and alot of juice makers like myself use sweeten VG as a base to improve on the flavors. Very common in the industry. But nobody really knows this. Secret.

KappaCory you read my mind. Lol. I've been struggling with this for months and I've experimented with so many different builds. I own a Stingray X mod and an IPV3, Dark Horse, Doge, Plumeveil and I can't match half of what I've seen others blow. I've used 20, 22, 24, 26awg, parallel coils, twisted you name it. I understand the fundamentals (ie. Airflow, wicking, inhale/exhale technique, heat flux ect..) but I'm obviously missing a few key factors.

For me pairing great flavor and nice dense vapor is the icing on the cake, especially when it's on something you built from scratch.

At this point it's become a mission just to say I can accomplish it. I've learned so much on the way and so it's been a very worthwhile learning experience. One day we will get there and until then more forum posts and videos to ponder.

Please if anyone can chime in on this it would be greatly appreciated.


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Its very simple, 100% VG no flavoring, try it. I hold cloud comps and that's what we use.

Lots of VG! At least 80VG/20PG.

100 % only period.

That simple fact i did know but still nothing to brag about vapor wise. I had thought to myself is all VG created equally or does can it differ depending on the retailer? I've tried straight VG from 3 different retailers which I use for DIY with pretty much the same results.


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All Vg is the same, its the PG that's different. I am a juice maker and i used many different VG, They are all the same.

 

[CrazyVpr]

We use \100% VG for our cloud comp. Not flavored With concentrates. However we flavor the VG with syrup or stevia. It's safe and alot of juice makers like myself use sweeten VG as a base to improve on the flavors. Very common in the industry. But nobody really knows this. Secret.

"100%vg. NOT FLAVORED, however we flavor with syrup, or stevia"
So, it's not 100% and it IS flavored. What "syrup"
What kind of a fucking "secret " is this ????
All VG is sweet.

 

[Reuven Tenam]

"100%vg. NOT FLAVORED, however we flavor with syrup, or stevia"
So, it's not 100% and it IS flavored. What "syrup"
What kind of a fucking "secret " is this ????
All VG is sweet.

It's not any secret i was just kidding about that. I add regular stevia in the VG, then i blend it in a blender. That makes it very white in color.
Then i put it in a mason jar and in a water bath under low simmer. After about 2 hrs the VG will be clear. That,s what we use for the cloud comp.
Many juice makers sweeten there VG. I do as well. If your interested in buying my juice my website is
Link removed

 

[KeyserSoze]

It's not any secret i was just kidding about that. I add regular stevia in the VG, then i blend it in a blender. That makes it very white in color.
Then i put it in a mason jar and in a water bath under low simmer. After about 2 hrs the VG will be clear. That,s what we use for the cloud comp.
Many juice makers sweeten there VG. I do as well. If your interested in buying my juice my website is
link removed

I'll be by to BS with you soon. I work north of you and live east of you. Didn't know you were there. Glad to find you here. ;-)

I've been wondering about "organic" sweeteners for my DIY juice so plan on the inquisition coming to you soon. Hehe.

 

[Reuven Tenam]

I'll be by to BS with you soon. I work north of you and live east of you. Didn't know you were there. Glad to find you here. ;-)

I've been wondering about "organic" sweeteners for my DIY juice so plan on the inquisition coming to you soon. Hehe.

I will be leaving in a couple of days, Monday or Tuesday is my last day till March 6.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I will be leaving in a couple of days, Monday or Tuesday is my last day till March 6.

Cool. I'll catch up w you some time. Hope your vacation goes well.

 

[Reuven Tenam]

Thank you i will be back on March 2 or the 3rd

 

[Faceless Vapes]

Try running a Zipper build.
Dual 28g zippers for 5 wraps. Be around .16-.18 range
I have mine sleeping too and it chucks dense warm clouds. Im vaping "Victoria" by Pinup and its max VG.