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Cop drew his gun on me

UncleRJ

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Or if your at home minding your own business.



I have a short barreled 12 gauge with pistol grips for that!
 

StrappedKaos

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I will say it again....
it boggles my mind how far apart people can be on such an easy to understand issue.
Maybe im just open minded but using what I would consider common sense in the back amd fourth I have just read shows me two sides.
1. Cops/officers having situational awareness and being prepared for the worst is a valid way to approach the situation. Did he possibly use excessive force by pulling a firearm? In my mind no, he was prepared for the worst and his training allows him to make that call as it happens not reactive. If he would have approached it with less caution then we may be reading about a dead officer. I would rather be drawn on and respect the officers judgement then to know I could be less safe because of my feelings being hurt.
2. It seems like people are not aware of what it is like to be an officer, its a catch 22 type of job. Either half like you and you are acting in the way that will get you killed, or half like you and you were being cautious and following training. No win win in that line of work- but the later will help you return home safe every night.
3. The comparisons I am seeing on here about being treated like a criminal or terrorist is just plain wrong, assuming people go thru training even ccw people just waiting to pull on the first person to look at them wrong is asinine to me. To each there own but that is just way off from apples to apples.
4. We lived in a screwed up world, no matte how you feel about the situation you will always have someone that does not agree with the methods used. Comparing this instance with the loss of faith in ferguson is just wow, to even take a side on that subject is just wow....only three people know what happened and for anyone to pass judgement on that situation is at best uneducated in my book. The cop, mr. Brown and to some god, knows what truly happened....
Thats what gets me is people having no idea about a subject chiming in on right or wrong/bad vs. Good or any other thoughts when the old adage comes into mind- walk a mile in his shoes....
The officer is damned if he does and damned if he dont - if he didn't pull gun and follow protocol then hes a bad cop because he was not doing what he was trained to do. If he does follow protocol then he was overbearing and treating him like a criminal. ... cant win I guess, but damn if I dont respect the man that one day might save me when all else fails..

Just keep an open mind is all im saying, dont cast judgement on someone because you are not aware of the situation in its entirety. If it was a gun and your son was next to be robbed would that change the thoughts you have about the situation? Maybe not but its worth considering, right?
 

Warhawk-AVG

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In case you aren't aware there is a standard for escalation of force for police officers pretty much taught nation wide

use_of_force.jpg


When the report came to the officer, he got a "man with a gun" report, not a "dude sitting there vaping with a metal thing poking out of his pocket" report...the situation was in the grievous bodily harm/death wedge...so the response was pretty much in the "lethal force" act section...thus the firearm drawn and at the ready. Due to the officers ability to assess the situation and w/ proper observation and communication he was able to discern the OP was not a threat and dial down the threat wheel. Police are trained to meet situations like this and to be proactive from similar situation other officer have been in...even simple traffic stops officers are on elevated alert...because if they aren't bad things happen VERY quickly.

Put yourself in the police officers shoes...someone calls you and says there is a guy with a gun in his pocket in your front yard (or any location you personally would protect), would you roll up nonchalantly or would you have some form of protection on hand/in hand in order to respond? Once you figured out the guy wasn't a threat...then you could dial down the "pucker factor" until you know the unknown isn't a threat...you too will be on the "I don't care if I hurt your feelings or act like a jack booted thug, you WILL show me your hands" mode.

Saying they should stay home thing is disingenuous...police officers are called out to investigate and control and diffuse dangerous situations countless times a day...unlike you, it's their job and until they know the situation isn't dangerous...they have to be a-holes sometimes.

I actually went to my hometowns citizen police academy (more or less a glorified show and tell of what the officers do on a daily basis) the live fire simulator was a VERY big eye opener (F.A.T.S I believe)...and the "clearing a house" excersize where we got to use simunition..well that too made the respect for what the keepers of the peace do go way up.

oh and Rock Hunter, respect sir!
 
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Nu2Mods

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Ok...I've read everything and I have just one simple question for dre1982...were you dressed like a thug? A gangsta? A stereotypical hood rat in the sense of "fashion"? You may or may not be a gansta, but what does your demeanor and dress reveal? This is reality and the world responds to "stereotypes". Unfortunately, so does law enforcement officers. Everyone has looked at the "officer" side, but what about the "suspect" side? Just keeping it real...
 

StrappedKaos

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A valid point, although I would like to think under the circumstances the officer should approach the situation the same regardless as it could mean life or death. Now we all know stereotypes are huge when it comes to situational awareness and even the fbi has statistics on its use being effective, it does suck because in non firearms related calls it may affect the cops initial judgement of the situation but it should not affect his judgement of the overall outcome. Although we all know there are good and bad everything so it could and does happen but again...
I trust them to make very tough judgement calls every second thy are on beat so common sense tells me to never give them a reason to suspect anything I dont want to project and it increases my odds regardless of good or bad.
we all have opinions and my advice to all is always keep an open mind, we never 100% know what someone is thinking or feeling.
 

StrappedKaos

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Kinda harps on the fact I am anoun, the choice some members made in order ro pass judgement on the ferguson situation so soon made me consider my ties to the cause- yes the ability to share the info is a great thing but to take a side without fact was terrible in my mind....I still have a hard time accepting that they whole heartedly believed what they thought instead of what they could certifiably prove, it is what it is I guess
 

Daniel

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Maybe is some assholes would just mind their own business, shit like that would not happen. Couple of months ago, some retard, moronic idiot wanted some drama stirred up in Wal-Mart, and the asshole called the pigs, and said a black guy was walking around the store pointing a gun at people and kids, and dropping bullets all over the floor trying to load it. TOTAL LOAD OF BULLSHIT, because the guy he was blaming this on, was on the phone with his wife, talking about a goddamn cookout, and the 2 idiot pigs walked straight into the store, and found him with his back to them, while talking on the phone, leaning on a rack with a bb gun, pointed at the floor, and they straight up shot him and killed him, and THEN started concocting their bullshit story. And it was all on Wal-Mart's surveilance video, showing how they walked up behind him and shot him before they said ANYTHING to him.

And in the process of the pigs killing this guy, a woman was trying to get away from them shooting everywhere, and she had a heart attack and fell to the floor dead. And do you think they charged the cops with anything?? Of course not. But the punk that started the lies that got that guy killed has disappeared. I read and heard people were looking for his lieing ass. Personally, I hope someone finds his ass rotting in the woods one day. And then Wal-Mart said they do not sell toy guns, which is a lie, because we went to that store a couple of days later, and the isles were full of toy guns waiting to be shelved and stocked up.

So some asshat, not minding his own business, started a lie that got an innocent guy killed while talking on the phone, and you know, they never did find any bullets on the floor.....because there never was any! I'm all for taking action if it is needed, but damnit, to just make a phone call to the pigs to stir up drama is pure bullshit. And no, I have no respect for the pigs. Too many innocent people have been killed by them, and then they get away with shit that should put them in prison for life! They act like they are better than everone else, & are scared shitless without that gun and badge. Astounding how a piece of tin, and a gun makes some feel like they are 15 ft. tall and bulletproof.
 

Tripster

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Maybe is some assholes would just mind their own business, shit like that would not happen. Couple of months ago, some retard, moronic idiot wanted some drama stirred up in Wal-Mart, and the asshole called the pigs, and said a black guy was walking around the store pointing a gun at people and kids, and dropping bullets all over the floor trying to load it. TOTAL LOAD OF BULLSHIT, because the guy he was blaming this on, was on the phone with his wife, talking about a goddamn cookout, and the 2 idiot pigs walked straight into the store, and found him with his back to them, while talking on the phone, leaning on a rack with a bb gun, pointed at the floor, and they straight up shot him and killed him, and THEN started concocting their bullshit story. And it was all on Wal-Mart's surveilance video, showing how they walked up behind him and shot him before they said ANYTHING to him.

And in the process of the pigs killing this guy, a woman was trying to get away from them shooting everywhere, and she had a heart attack and fell to the floor dead. And do you think they charged the cops with anything?? Of course not. But the punk that started the lies that got that guy killed has disappeared. I read and heard people were looking for his lieing ass. Personally, I hope someone finds his ass rotting in the woods one day. And then Wal-Mart said they do not sell toy guns, which is a lie, because we went to that store a couple of days later, and the isles were full of toy guns waiting to be shelved and stocked up.

So some asshat, not minding his own business, started a lie that got an innocent guy killed while talking on the phone, and you know, they never did find any bullets on the floor.....because there never was any! I'm all for taking action if it is needed, but damnit, to just make a phone call to the pigs to stir up drama is pure bullshit. And no, I have no respect for the pigs. Too many innocent people have been killed by them, and then they get away with shit that should put them in prison for life! They act like they are better than everone else, & are scared shitless without that gun and badge. Astounding how a piece of tin, and a gun makes some feel like they are 15 ft. tall and bulletproof.

These officers were indeed reckless and use of Deadly Force was unlawful, here is a lil something...
Deadly Force

Investigators should be familiar with the definition of deadly force:


Any force that is reasonably intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm.


They should also understand when officers in Massachusetts are authorized to use deadly force. While a department’s policy may be more restrictive, it must conform to the following minimum court-imposed restrictions which permit such use to protect the officer or others from what is reasonably believed to be a threat of death or serious bodily harm. An officer is also authorized to use deadly force to effect an arrest only if:


-The arrest is for a felony;

-The officer reasonably believes that the force employed creates no substantial risk to innocent persons; and

-The officer reasonably believes that:

·The crime for which the arrest is to be made involved conduct including the use or threatened use of deadly force, or

·There is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily harm if such person’s apprehension is delayed.


Investigators should pay attention, also, to the requirement that, where practicable, prior to discharging a firearm, officers identify themselves as law enforcement officers and state their intent to shoot.


Often related to the discharge of a firearm is the issue of warning shots. Some departments allow them where the officer is authorized to use deadly force and only if the officer reasonably believes a warning shot can be fired safely in light of all circumstances of the encounter. Other departments ban the use of warning shots. The IA investigator should be sure which policy the department has adopted. Also, to the extent the policy is at variance with the actual practice, this must be noted.


A similar difference of opinion exists among departments as regards discharging a firearm at or from a moving vehicle. Knowing what the policy and practice of the department are is essential to conducting a thorough IA investigation.

Investigations of an Officers unlawful misconduct isn't as easy at it may appear/seem even with damning evidence...on the other hand, misconduct can be rather easy with damning evidence...a lil something...

a police officer was terminated after he sent a letter to the Kansas Attorney General requesting an investigation of certain activities and unexplainable incidents which occurred within his department. Specifically, the officer contended that the department had misappropriated funds and condoned the sexual misconduct of a superior officer. Holding that the public has a keen interest in knowing that its police department is operating properly and efficiently, the court found the officer’s statements did amount to a matter of public concern.


A police officer’s letter to the police chief criticizing the community-oriented policing program was declared protected speech.


The following cases are examples of how courts in other states have handled discipline cases involving statements critical of the department or public employer.


-An officer’s criticisms of the president of the police union and the chief who negotiated a collective bargaining agreement did not involve matters of public concern; however, accusations of official impropriety did, thus precluding summary judgment of the officer’s civil rights suit alleging a wrongful termination for exercising his First Amendment rights.

-An officer’s satirical memo criticizing a special squad did not relate to a matter of public concern.

-The Maryland Supreme Court upheld disciplinary action against a police sergeant who criticized his superiors in the presence of other officers. However, it was not a punishable offense to advise a subordinate to keep silent after he shot a suspect.

-A federal appeals court upheld the right of a police academy secretary to sue for loss of her job for public criticism of the department.

-A letter which was made public and criticized and accused the chief could furnish grounds for termination.

-A federal court ruled that an officer’s disclosures about police corruption to the FBI was protected by the First Amendment.

I am most definitely NOT supporting Police Brutality/Unlawful Conduct, merely giving you an insight on how Internal Affairs Investigations work.

Attack me or whatever...again, I am not siding with those Officers.
 

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