Danger with building.

Discussion in 'New Builders Corner' started by Bgh723, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Thank you Bgh Honestly no need :) donate it if you want to to one of the vets or acting serviceman in the PiF section, give it a good Home
     
  2. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    I understand but I thought of it more as a gift to someone being friendly more than adversarial for a change. Have a good holiday season and great 2018.
     
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  3. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    But, the OP posted his perspective, as a vape shop owner. It doesn't matter what I think of the stupid people blowing their own faces off. It doesn't matter what I think of stupid people getting themselves hurt with horses. What matters is the health of the business.

    It can be dangerous if they take it off the regulated mod and put it on a mech. The same way a good horse can be dangerous if someone puts a severe bit in it's mouth so it flips over on them and kills 'em. It's not the atty or the horse that is dangerous, it's the fuckhead using them. And, you may be sued and/or your reputation damaged because of the fuckhead, not the horse or atty.


    But, we are not talking about long term effects. That's a whole different animal. People are blowing their faces off now.

    The OP has not made any such claim that any vape gear be outlawed outright or that you or I should not use certain devices. He simply said they are to dangerous for his business to sell without discriminating on who buys them. I agree. I discriminate when I sell a horse because of the risk. It's just good common sense.
     
  4. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Lithium rechargeable batteries are dangerous regardless of what you have to say. How about the person who puts the battery loose inside a pocket along with a bunch of coins and a set of keys? Anyone can only give out the information. What will happen after that will greatly depend on whether the information was both correct and sufficiently detailed as well as fully understood and accepted by the customer in the "terms and conditions". So if too many of your customers are having accidents that they're blaming on you, then you probably aren't trying hard enough to educate those people well because else the vast majority of those accidents would have been prevented before they happened. To stop selling an RBA or mech mod to those who appear to be unwilling to learn how to use it is one thing, but to also push away newcomers who don't act stupid is to tell them to go educate themselves someplace else, and that only makes you look foolish.
     
  5. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    But knives and forks and dangerous tools don't have an anti group with money to bring frivolous lawsuits with the sole intent to shut down a vaping business by bankruptcy. ;)

    Exploding batteries give anti groups a door that they didn't have with big tobacco. They will and are using it.
     
  6. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    Correct. Batteries need improvment. We've had Captain's, Smok Alien's catch fire. However we did have a battery wrap that was partially torn in one of those. No we never sell clones. LOL
     
  7. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    So what’s the news on new battery technology coming anyone heard anything other than the air type
     
  8. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    ooops.....................
     
  9. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    As I said before..in this culture of ant-vaping I would also want to absolve myself from any possible lawsiuts,I totally understand that... but I would not come out and tell people that a style of vaping which tens of thousands of people have been doing for years safely is dangerous...rather I would say openly I can't sell this or that not because they are dangerous, but because if some imbecile abuses it I may be held liable for their stupidity....and I'm not willing to take that risk....

    recently a Border Patrol agent was killed by an illegal alien from Mexico with a rock......are rocks dangerous?...if you put an 18650 battery with a torn wrapper in a flashlight it will do the same thing in a flashlight than it does in a mod..are flashlights dangerous?
    My concern is the old..."you know they put that stuff in anti-freeze" argument...non vapers hearing some misinformation about mech mods and then passing it off as the truth.."Oh my God that thing is a pipe bomb run run run"......knowledge is the best safegaurd....most people are not allowed on a job site not because job sites are particularly dangerous, millions of us work on them daily....it is people's ignorance of potential dangers that makes them a liability on a job site.
     
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  10. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    So? Any atomizer that can be taken off of the regulated mod can also be put on a mech and be equally, if not even far more dangerous than an RBA... the simple fact the atomizer isn't an RBA will change nothing about this... which proves my point regarding foolishness.
     
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  11. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    exactlly a sub-ohm tank with premade .2 coils a flush 510 pin popped onto a hybrid mech mod....boom
     
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  12. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Even if the 510 pin isn't flush, the premade coil can still be defective causing a hard short upon first use of the coil, or become defective over the course of normal use and still cause a hard short later on─as these types of coils all use a rubber insulator that compresses as well as can melt.
     
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  13. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'll tell you after years of vaping I am still not super knowledable about batteries...I know enough to be safe...I buy Sony VCT5 ...I buy 30 amp batteries highest quality I can find from reputable manufacuteres......and I don't vape below .5 ohms.....if I was to get a bug up my butt and wanted to vape .2 or .15 I would take it upon myself to get alot more educated on batteries....whether or not I was using a regulated mod...as for sub-ohm tanks .....sorry... I'm not using those things. it doesn't matter what your gear is or how you use it...you need to know what the hell you're doing....what your parameters are.
     
  14. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    yeah I've never used a premade coil, and honestly I would never do it for the exact reasons you point out...I can't see it..I don't know how it's wrapped I can pop it on an ohm meter, and if I have a regulated mod it shouldn't be able to fire, but I'm just not the trusting type.....I mean the main reason alot of us started using rebuildables were 1)quality of the vape, but 2) and more importantly the quaility control of the Chinese sucked.
     
  15. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Even if using a regulated mod, vaping is still dangerous. If the user chooses the wrong batteries they can start venting inside the mod. To make matters only worse, there are a lot of fake batteries out there. And the fact a regulated mod has built-in safety features can give the user a false sense of security and potentially also even stop him/her from seeing the importance of getting educated about batteries and about their safety. Those same safety features of a regulated mod aren't necessarily always reliable on top of that. With a mech mod the user doesn't need to rely on the vagueness of some Chinese chip maker. The battery heats up inside the mech mod, and, if the mech mod in question is a copper/brass/aluminum tube mod that doesn't have an insulating lining on the inside of the tube, then this heat can be felt on the outside of the mod usually long before the battery temperature can get dangerously too high... the same cannot be said about most regulated mods. Now I'm not even talking about how charging the batteries inside the regulated mod can also be dangerous, especially if the mod in question overheats during internal battery charging and or the mod overcharges the batteries too far. I vape at .11 ohms on a single VTC5A battery (not to be confused with the VTC5) in the mech all the time. But I know what I'm doing and I know stuff well enough for me to be able to keep it relatively safe enough so yeah, I completely agree the key to safety is to seek out knowledge and to act responsibly. A shop owner who blatantly refuses to educate newcomers well enough is not going to earn a lot of money from me.
     
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  16. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Maybe 30+ years ago it did, in today's world it doesn't. Just because someone owns a shop doesn't mean jack squat. Most owners of B&M's, mechanics, etc. today hire he cheapest. Yes there are a few exceptions but they are systematically getting squeezed out, that is the sad reality.

    To be brutally honest a prime example of not knowing shit is yourself with your OP.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    I take no offense. These threads are loaded with assholes like yourself who think they know more than they do. I gave you the last word yesterday and that wasn't enough so apparently you have an out of control ego. Probably divorced once or twice and co workers can't stand you but maybe tolerate you. Maybe an alcoholic or a dry drunk. Miserable most days (how am I doing)? In any case your a $60,000 a year wonder who wants to be a player but never had any balls to try and get somewhere. Sad. Do yourself a favor kid and stop before I make you cry or kick the dog.
     
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  18. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I rest my case for you continually affirm my opinion.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
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  19. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    BTW you sure summed me up quite well, guess that's why I'm retiring at 55 next year.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Read the OP again.

    Title of thread. "Danger with building."

    The context of his post is his first sentence which is his first post.

    The subject of his thread is Retailers. He continues with a fuller explaination in the second post.

    You see, you are making an argument that the OP has not made. His post is clearly about the danger to his business due to user error.

    I mean, you can jump on the bandwagon with everybody else but the man is 100% correct.

    A bunch of self absorbed folks got their panties in a wad because they saw a title on VU that said "Danger with building" and came to the thread with a chip on their shoulder to prove the man wrong. They didn't bother to read the context of his post that is very clear.

    I like him. He's right and his he's willing to call people assholes that are being assholes to him. I don't know what more you want from him. He clearly makes the case that user error is the cause of the danger. What the hell is there to disagree with? :D
     
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  21. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Sorry guy but he's getting the response that he asked for, just read the thread. His last reply to me has been his theme threw out this thread. He dug his own hole and instead of trying to get out of it he just digs it deeper and deeper.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
  22. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    If you haven't noticed, I don't talk to you. You're too fucking dumb. You can read my comments to others.;)
     
  23. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    Good, now you can stop.
     
  24. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Fuck off already. You fucks attacked him and he's treating you the way you treated him. If you don't like it, cry to somebody who cares.
     
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  25. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Time if what you say is the only context this thread was meant perhaps it’s sitting in the wrong forum section

    I don’t think it was necessarily just a chip because it’s was posted in the builders corner which of course that’s going to attract attention from those who very much enjoy building!

    so OP do you want me to move this thread somewhere else on the forum?
     
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  26. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    It's not in the wrong section. That's where new vapers/builders are going to see it, right?

    He makes good points about user error and liability claims.
     
  27. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Then I guess be prepared for strong opinions both sides / frustration and arguing :)

    no wrong or right here builders enjoy discussing building in this section ordinarily

    It’s no different to someone in the DIY juice section Titling the thread the dangers of making your own Juice and stating they will no longer sell supplies because.... its going to attract strong opinions from people there as well both sides of the fence :)

    I offer not to deny the OP a chance to have his say rather a reprieve :) but hey if he wants it here can stay here
     
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  28. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Aaaah OK if you say so slick, your comment shows just how you haven't paid attention, I doubt you've even bothered to read my posts.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
  29. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Discussions like that already go on in DIY section regarding pure nicotine and vendors. If a B&M owner or other vendor came in and said they would not sell pure nicoctine due to liability issues because of the dangers due to user error, then a discussion would ensue. I'm fine with pure nic, but I can see where a vendor might not want to sell it and I doubt I'd have a knee jerk reaction. The only argument that would get me riled up regarding building or DIY is a proposal that certain aspects should be illegal altogether. I'm fine with vendors that don't want to sell a product themselves. I just have to buy from someone else. :D
     
  30. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    I posted here to get input. The only smart thing I did in 70 years was learn to listen. I wanted to hear from the other side. I didn't want to get into a pissing contest with the entire thread but as it progressed and started to get nasty with people telling me about not caring about vapors or I was concerned about money, I went on the defense. Being a Newbie as you call it I really didn't think it was FB like. In fact I signed off a few weeks ago and had no intention of coming back until the Forum came up on my email with something I couldn't keep my mouth shut about. Danger of Building got everyones attention and it got heated right away. As the thread grew I expounded on the heading. I didn't want a 3 page opening on my opinion as if I were doing a seminar.
     
  31. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I build but I don't sub ohm. I'm vaping on an Avocado with a single 1.2 ohm kanthol coil. Regulated mod.
     
  32. Bgh723

    Bgh723 New Member Unlisted Vendor

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    I had fun here and there are a few nice people. I learned that my opinion about selling rebuildable's are something we will continue to do if and only if customers ask for them but never if they ask us how to build? We will never sell one to a new vapor of course nor will we bring back Mmods. Thanks for all the advice. I read everyone's post and some several times. Good vaping to all.
     
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  33. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Sounds like a plan Bgh
     
  34. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Yes, I have noticed. But I'm not talking to you either, as I'm only pointing out to others why it is you who is the fucking dumb one. You can go to the store, buy a hammer, take your thumb out of your ass, hit on your thumb with the hammer you bought, and then sue the store for the fact the hammer is too dangerous due to your being an imbecile as well as an ass.;)
     
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  35. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    OK if you say so Slick, like I said it's rather obvious you haven't followed this thread very well let alone bothered to read my posts, but then again that's your usual MO. ;)

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
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  36. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    LOL.

    Yeah, because I see all the stories in news and FB about people in the hospital with sore hammer thumbs because the Antihammer Society of America is trying to shut down all hammering. You know, to save the childrens thumbs. :rolleyes:

    You fucking moron, there is no Antihammer group. But there is well funded antivaping/antitobacco groups that push for lawsuits and bad press. A business owner would be a fool and a tool to not consider the legal aspect these antitobacco groups bring to the table that doesn't fucking exist when you buy a fucking hammer. Dumb ass.
     
  37. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    actuallky I use the VCT5A as well every since I heard Mooch's review of them...
     
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  38. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yep, Mooch will never let you down. I went with VTC5a's and the iJoy 26650's due to @Mooch recommendation and have been very happy.

    What I've learned is always follow Mooch's recommendations you'll not only be safe but very pleased.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
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  39. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    yeah I think I was using Samsung 25R..I'm liking the 5as
     
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  40. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah I went from 25R's with a few VTC4's then when I found VTC5a's that was it. I also had got a few LG browns when I was on the 25R's but like the Sammy's better, they are a work horse but the VTC5a's are by far the best 18650 batteries, excellent balance between power and life.

    I know 20700's and 21700's are edging in, I actually pulled the trigger on a 20700 tube which should be in this week. I've got too much invested though in 18650 and 266650 Mod's I doubt I'll be investing much in 20700 mod's.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
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  41. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Time! hold up you cantankerous old firebrand....I've only said about 3 times at the very least... I totally understand where he is coming from, and I may very well do the same thing as he has done under the current ant-vaping climate.,However ..However I encourage people to educate themselves as quickly and and as well as possible to be able to vape without buying premade coils or being restricted to sub-ohm tanks and regulated mods.and to let them know the technology is safe when used properly..any of this stuff regulated mods, tanks, rbas,mechs can all be abused and result in boom...and all of them are safe when used properly. I must have watched 30 youtube videos on building a set up before I bought my first rba, and vaped on my own coils for 6 months at like 1.2 ohms before I built a subohm coil of a whopping .8....unfortunately now every dipshit comes into vaping with only one question....how do I get bigger clouds than that guy on youtube....and where can I buy some dual alien coils....if I had my way all new vapers would be issued rebuildables and spools of 30 gauge wire for the first 6 months of vaping and an ohm meter...and only single wire coils buckoos.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  42. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    as far as I can tell the 20700 and 21700 are for low sub ohmers they can handle a high power drain, but they don't seem to have a particularlly high mah rating...as the lowest I vape is .5 or.6 I'm not sure they'd do me much good.
     
  43. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    VTC5a's are 25a and 2600 mAh, that's well within the range for me to Vape. The iJoy 26650's are 30a and around 4000 mAh so with my Stable of Mech's I only have a mild curiosity of the 20700 and 21700 Mod's. That and until there is a good consistent supply of those batteries it'll remain that way.

    Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk
     
  44. Time

    Time Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I agree with that. Even the cantankerous part. :D
     
  45. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Good riddance!
    But you're forgetting hammers are now also considered dangerous vaping products because they can be used to flatten resistance wire, that, in turn, can be used for the mirror finish coil build. Remember coil building is too dangerous (that is, for an imbecile like you). :rolleyes:
     
  46. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    This is my very first own coil build... 2nd picture is how it looks now, as I've kept it for a souvenir─and to make a political statement about liberty. I made this with my own hands and Squidoode's brains after only 4 weeks of vaping.

    build1.jpg troll.jpg
     
  47. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    The 5-legged iJoy 20700 (not to be confused with the 4-legged version) is also a true 30A battery. There has already been being a good consistent supply of it for the past half year or so, and, despite it is a rewrap of the Molicel 20700 battery, it is still the same battery and the performance is exactly the same... other rewraps of this same battery are ones by Efest/Ampking/EBAT/EnerCig/Keeppower/Vappower.

    A quick easy up-to-date overview of Mooch's battery tests can be found here: http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/the-battery-mooch
     
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  48. UsernameUnkown

    UsernameUnkown New Member

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017 at 1:49 AM
  49. r055co

    r055co VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I picked up the 2JNT Supremo, it's a 20700 tube. Only decent Mooch recommend battery I could get is the eFest which is (per Mooch) is the same battery as the iJoy. I'm seriously not impressed with the battery. It doesn't hit anywhere as good as the VTC5a's and I really can't tell much improvement in battery life.

    I'm going to stick with 18650 Mod's until a 20700 battery performs at least as good as the VTC5a's.

    Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
     
  50. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    Like I have explained in another thread not too long ago, the iJoy 5-legged 20700 only really shines in a dual series mech IMHO. Another thing about this battery is that it is a 30 amp battery so you can build at lower ohms compared to the VTC5A─in order to compensate for the fact the 20700 doesn't hit as hard... thereby offering different coil building options to explore (not necessarily always better ones, but still).

    On a dual series mech (i.e. on my brass Vaperz Cloud XXX equipped with the separately sold extension tube as well as with the separately sold bottom section that uses the newer Comp-S switch as opposed to using the older VC Tech switch) at .28 ohms─dual coil fused claptons using Kanthal cores─I can vape on the iJoys pretty much all day without me having to change the batteries. This cannot be said about using dual VTC5A in this same setup by using the accompanying 18650 plastic adapter sleeves. Also note that different rewrap companies can use different grades of batteries so... same battery, different grade = slightly different performance. Efest have been notorious in the past for having lower grades and then selling them at above average prices, albeit they have bettered themselves according to Mooch. Lower grades are not rejects, but they perform a little worse so then why should we be paying extra.

    Here's a quick/dirty picture of the .28 ohms coil build that I am referring to... I have it in my Purge Mods Head Shot RDA:

    fused claptons.jpg
     

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