Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl

[Woodsman]

FYI:

"In mid year 2014 NicVape took a major financial hit by pulling 100% of its existing e-juice lineup. We had been told by our flavor concentrate suppliers that our raw material was diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free. They were wrong. Whether or not it was ignorance or willful deception is beside the point. Our supply chain was compromised. We found a new manufacturer for flavor concentrates, one that would agree under contract to leave out molecules considered undesirable. Determined to never again be deceived, we added additional testing to our internal quality assurance protocols. Flavor concentrate is tested upon arrival to our facility. Not willing to leave it at that the final e-juice product is also tested for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Every batch, every time. We don't ask anyone to just take us at our word. We post 100% of those test results online. They are accessible though NICTRACE on our website.

We didn't do this because we were told to. We did this because I, Richard Henning, owner of NicVape will never knowingly contribute to the harm of another human being because of greed or fear. Those that work for me feel the same way. I believe that is why they have continued to give everything they have to the success of this company even though our decision to change our e-juice line up IMMEDIATELY instead of at our convenience has caused great financial struggle for us. We have shown with our new lines that great tasting e-juice can be made without diacetyl and without acetyl propionyl. We have shown that a company can be transparent. We have shown that integrity is more important than security. We have shown stewardship.

I am not saying that I am the only e-juice manufacturer that feels this way. I am saying that as a consumer you should ask for them to prove what claims they make. I am saying that if they don't seem to be concerned about diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, you should be."

http://www.nicvape.com/Does-Vaping-Pose-a-Health-Risk

 

[0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes]

Over the past few months me and my wife have gotten into vaping quite extensively, this is the problem we have encountered a lot of companies are saying their flavor concentrates are diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free the thing they don't realize is people know people. every flavor I have created I have taken to a really good friend of mine who just so happens to be a chemistry professor at my local college. We have sat in the good old lab running many test on each juice from various flavor concentrate companies. And I will give everyone a heads up and this ties into your post here. There are a lot of concentrate companies who do not provide the test results showing they have tested for diacetyl or acetyl propionyl, and if they do it only shows them testing for diacetyl. so beware juice makers.
The number one violator of not reporting is TFA/TPA

 

[Smoky Blue]

Over the past few months me and my wife have gotten into vaping quite extensively, this is the problem we have encountered a lot of companies are saying their flavor concentrates are diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free the thing they don't realize is people know people. every flavor I have created I have taken to a really good friend of mine who just so happens to be a chemistry professor at my local college. We have sat in the good old lab running many test on each juice from various flavor concentrate companies. And I will give everyone a heads up and this ties into your post here. There are a lot of concentrate companies who do not provide the test results showing they have tested for diacetyl or acetyl propionyl, and if they do it only shows them testing for diacetyl. so beware juice makers.
The number one violator of not reporting is TFA/TPA

how say so? They do show on their main site, they do testing on their flavors.. Can you disprove that?
just curious..

 

[0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes]

Yes I can I have taken the flavors I created using their concentrates to my friend who has his doctorate in chemistry and he tested them and gave me the results. I am in the process of preparing a report that I post a like to by the end of the month. He tested over 110 different combinations of flavors and I have reports for all 110

 

[0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes]

and the way they cover themselves is there is an area that states TFA/TPA own chemists state their custards are not able to be created without at least trace amounts of acetyl propionyl or diacetyl

 

[Smoky Blue]

then you will need to take it up with the company in question..

 

[Chase S]

Shark Vape, Diacetyl has been associated with bronchitis and lung disease when inhaled. Inhaling it doesn't necessarily mean you'll suffer these things, but continuous inhalation of diacetyl increases the likelihood of these symptoms. Acetyl propionyl and other diacetyl substitutes haven't yet been linked to these effects, but their chemistry is extremely similar and so it is advised that you avoid using juices that contain these substances.

 

[skoony]

i am not buying it.show me the billing invoices.
less than 30 cases of popcorn have ever been reported in the USA ever.all but one where exposed to diacetyl
in the workplace.

 

[Frankm]

The pitch, the swing, it's a pop fly. Did anyone see where it went?

 

[Smoky Blue]

I forgot I had this piece.. it's a good read..

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0JrO25MOsG5VjBBd0d4SlVNOXM/edit

 

[Frankm]

I forgot I had this piece.. it's a good read..

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0JrO25MOsG5VjBBd0d4SlVNOXM/edit

Very good read

 

[Ryedan]

I forgot I had this piece.. it's a good read..

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0JrO25MOsG5VjBBd0d4SlVNOXM/edit

Thanks for posting that Smoky Blue

 

[Kent B Marshall]

This study also supports concerns with diacetyl (DA) and acetyl propionyl (AP)
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/2/168.abstract?sid=2449673a-8e62-4883-97ec-631c656fe76a

 

[Ryedan]

This study also supports concerns with diacetyl (DA) and acetyl propionyl (AP)
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/2/168.abstract?sid=2449673a-8e62-4883-97ec-631c656fe76a

I'm pretty sure the data in that article is from Dr Farsalinos' work last year. Good stuff

 

[VenomousMofo]

Yes I can I have taken the flavors I created using their concentrates to my friend who has his doctorate in chemistry and he tested them and gave me the results. I am in the process of preparing a report that I post a like to by the end of the month. He tested over 110 different combinations of flavors and I have reports for all 110

I'm curious, have you completed the report yet? Thanks

 

[nabibrian]

Yes I can I have taken the flavors I created using their concentrates to my friend who has his doctorate in chemistry and he tested them and gave me the results. I am in the process of preparing a report that I post a like to by the end of the month. He tested over 110 different combinations of flavors and I have reports for all 110

Almost all my concentrates are from TFA, I am highly interested in this report.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Almost all my concentrates are from TFA, I am highly interested in this report.

You can check them here:

http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx

 

[nabibrian]

Thanks smoky I was interested in this "report" by orking though. I have read the one by TPA.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Thanks smoky I was interested in this "report" by orking though. I have read the one by TPA.

he was referring to mixes he had made.. and no telling what all he had placed into them.
he did not say.. and.. Yeps.. but you might have a long wait.. @0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes was last seen:
Apr 24, 2015

 

[Jetson]

These chemicals must be like transfats, you know, the stuff that makes everything taste so good. There's this TFA Coconut Extra that I love, but I guess it has a little bad stuff in it. But I still use it, a little bit. Not like I'm making pina-colladas and chugging them down, eh.

 

[Smoky Blue]

These chemicals must be like transfats, you know, the stuff that makes everything taste so good. There's this TFA Coconut Extra that I love, but I guess it has a little bad stuff in it. But I still use it, a little bit. Not like I'm making pina-colladas and chugging them down, eh.

Some people, like me are very sensitive to things like the bad chemicals in flavorings.. this is why I try to pay attention to what is going on..
especially when I find new vendors claiming all sorts of things.. there is only a few companies I mix with.. I wish more would screen their flavors..
but.. I am very happy with the ones I have.. they are some of the best.

 

[Jetson]

Some people, like me are very sensitive to things like the bad chemicals in flavorings.. this is why I try to pay attention to what is going on..
especially when I find new vendors claiming all sorts of things.. there is only a few companies I mix with.. I wish more would screen their flavors..
but.. I am very happy with the ones I have.. they are some of the best.

I hear ya about the personal sensitivity. For me, it's PG, so I try to use strong flavors and a heavy VG juice. Agree, the more info the better.

 

[nabibrian]

Thanks for the info. I may have misread or misunderstood all that was transpiring. I will carry on...

 

[Smoky Blue]

I hear ya about the personal sensitivity. For me, it's PG, so I try to use strong flavors and a heavy VG juice. Agree, the more info the better.

I can't do much pg either.. anything over 10% causes a bad coughing fit, and fire down my throat.. then I lose my voice for a while..
not fun.. then on the d and a.p. well for instance..

FA yogurt is not as bad, FW yogurt, I get a nice rancid butter taste.. the fa just tastes like wet socks..

 

[VenomousMofo]

So I've read posts by a few people in the past that TFA are not honest about being diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free.

What's your take on this Smoky?

 

[cigdone]

FYI:

"In mid year 2014 NicVape took a major financial hit by pulling 100% of its existing e-juice lineup. We had been told by our flavor concentrate suppliers that our raw material was diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free. They were wrong. Whether or not it was ignorance or willful deception is beside the point. Our supply chain was compromised. We found a new manufacturer for flavor concentrates, one that would agree under contract to leave out molecules considered undesirable. Determined to never again be deceived, we added additional testing to our internal quality assurance protocols. Flavor concentrate is tested upon arrival to our facility. Not willing to leave it at that the final e-juice product is also tested for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Every batch, every time. We don't ask anyone to just take us at our word. We post 100% of those test results online. They are accessible though NICTRACE on our website.

We didn't do this because we were told to. We did this because I, Richard Henning, owner of NicVape will never knowingly contribute to the harm of another human being because of greed or fear. Those that work for me feel the same way. I believe that is why they have continued to give everything they have to the success of this company even though our decision to change our e-juice line up IMMEDIATELY instead of at our convenience has caused great financial struggle for us. We have shown with our new lines that great tasting e-juice can be made without diacetyl and without acetyl propionyl. We have shown that a company can be transparent. We have shown that integrity is more important than security. We have shown stewardship.

I am not saying that I am the only e-juice manufacturer that feels this way. I am saying that as a consumer you should ask for them to prove what claims they make. I am saying that if they don't seem to be concerned about diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, you should be."

http://www.nicvape.com/Does-Vaping-Pose-a-Health-Risk[/

FYI:

"In mid year 2014 NicVape took a major financial hit by pulling 100% of its existing e-juice lineup. We had been told by our flavor concentrate suppliers that our raw material was diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free. They were wrong. Whether or not it was ignorance or willful deception is beside the point. Our supply chain was compromised. We found a new manufacturer for flavor concentrates, one that would agree under contract to leave out molecules considered undesirable. Determined to never again be deceived, we added additional testing to our internal quality assurance protocols. Flavor concentrate is tested upon arrival to our facility. Not willing to leave it at that the final e-juice product is also tested for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Every batch, every time. We don't ask anyone to just take us at our word. We post 100% of those test results online. They are accessible though NICTRACE on our website.

We didn't do this because we were told to. We did this because I, Richard Henning, owner of NicVape will never knowingly contribute to the harm of another human being because of greed or fear. Those that work for me feel the same way. I believe that is why they have continued to give everything they have to the success of this company even though our decision to change our e-juice line up IMMEDIATELY instead of at our convenience has caused great financial struggle for us. We have shown with our new lines that great tasting e-juice can be made without diacetyl and without acetyl propionyl. We have shown that a company can be transparent. We have shown that integrity is more important than security. We have shown stewardship.

I am not saying that I am the only e-juice manufacturer that feels this way. I am saying that as a consumer you should ask for them to prove what claims they make. I am saying that if they don't seem to be concerned about diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, you should be."

http://www.nicvape.com/Does-Vaping-Pose-a-Health-Risk

I haven't had a cigarette for almost 2 years thanks to vaping. This article is very interesting because I have developed severe allergies and asthma resulting in my having to use an inhaler twice a day as well as a rescue inhaler. I had started wondering if it was my vapor-liquid. I vape Castle Long by 5 pawns exclusively and have increased the strength of my batteries. I have emailed them asking about the chemical makeup of their juice, but have not heard from them. Would you by any chance have information about their ejuice? I am new to this forum so please forgive me if I broke any rules.

 

[cigdone]

So I've read posts by a few people in the past that TFA are not honest about being diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free.

What's your take on this Smoky?

What is TFA?

 

[VenomousMofo]

What is TFA?

The Flavor Apprentice

 

[Smoky Blue]

So I've read posts by a few people in the past that TFA are not honest about being diacetyl and acetyl propionyl free.

What's your take on this Smoky?

That you should go by the link I posted in this thread and go thru each flavor you might have..
Linda @ tfa is very honest, and I am sure the certs for flavors in question can be shown.
She has been doing this for a mighty long time and does have a fantastic rep.

I haven't had a cigarette for almost 2 years thanks to vaping. This article is very interesting because I have developed severe allergies and asthma resulting in my having to use an inhaler twice a day as well as a rescue inhaler. I had started wondering if it was my vapor-liquid. I vape Castle Long by 5 pawns exclusively and have increased the strength of my batteries. I have emailed them asking about the chemical makeup of their juice, but have not heard from them. Would you by any chance have information about their ejuice? I am new to this forum so please forgive me if I broke any rules.

You havent broken any rules, cigdone.. You might want to contact them via a phone call/find them on facebook.
Jay is an upstanding member of the community, and I have met him in person, I found him very likable, more than willing to explain things..
If you do catch up with him, tell him I said hello

have you vaped them exclusively? you might want to switch juices around..

 

[Count Vapula]

TFA has full MSDS sheets for each item they sell. Not terribly likely they are using falsified MSDS ...

I've had great experiences with the staff and products.

 

[nabibrian]

TFA has full MSDS sheets for each item they sell. Not terribly likely they are using falsified MSDS ...

I've had great experiences with the staff and products.

I second that!

 

[Smoky Blue]

I second that!

ya mean 3rd it..

 

[Count Vapula]

I haven't had a cigarette for almost 2 years thanks to vaping. This article is very interesting because I have developed severe allergies and asthma resulting in my having to use an inhaler twice a day as well as a rescue inhaler. I had started wondering if it was my vapor-liquid. I vape Castle Long by 5 pawns exclusively and have increased the strength of my batteries. I have emailed them asking about the chemical makeup of their juice, but have not heard from them. Would you by any chance have information about their ejuice? I am new to this forum so please forgive me if I broke any rules.

Have you gone in for allergen tests? It's not that uncommon for people to have PG sensitivity.

You could have a sample analyzed too. Could be a flavour component too that you are allergic to

Also it could be related to work / home etc. There's a ton of bad chemicals out there!

I got some crazy chest rash / hives after a bottle from China. Was 3 months in, so I do not believe it was the 'quit zits' from detoxing body

My DIY is typically 80+ VG although it's hard to get strong flavour profiles without much PG :/

 

[Barbara E.]

This study also supports concerns with diacetyl (DA) and acetyl propionyl (AP)
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/2/168.abstract?sid=2449673a-8e62-4883-97ec-631c656fe76a

Edited to add: Argh, I quoted the wrong study. This post refers to THIS study (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0JrO25MOsG5VjBBd0d4SlVNOXM/edit) quoted further up the thread. I apologize for any confusion.

I have to admit that I have a problem with this report.

First of all, Bronchiolitus Obliterans ('B.O.') is a very serious disease. I'm not trying to minimize the severity of it in any way.

This report focused on workers in a particular microwave popcorn factory. Air samples were done in the production area and over 100 different 'volatile organic compounds' (VOCs) were found. Diacetyl was identified as the primary VOC found. The 135 workers studied had significantly higher rates of various respiratory problems. The 135 workers included cases where workers mixing buttered flavors with heated oil were diagnosed with B.O. (The number of B.O. cases was not stated.)

The report then goes on to mention another article (no link given). According to this report, the article 'states that the authors are unaware of any cases of B.O. being attributed to cigarette smoking, even though DA (diacetyl) and PD (2,3-pentanedione, aka Acetylpropionyl, aka 'AP') in cigarette smoke has been found to be much higher in concentration than any reported exposures in workplace studies'.

So, in short, we have workers in popcorn factories developing respiratory problems (including B.O.), yet smokers - even though they are exposed to cigarette smoke which contains much higher levels of DA and PD/AP - do not develop B.O. (Of course we all know that smokers are prone to increased respiratory problems but we're focusing on B.O.)

Of course, this could be due to the *type* of exposure - relatively frequent, short-lived but high concentrations (smoking, cigarette smoke) versus lower-level, yet constant, workday exposure (40 hrs/wk).

Ok, now the report starts getting into e-cigs. (Still with me? )

(Actually, I'm going to go ahead and post this because my computer has been acting up and I don't want to lose this...)

 

[Barbara E.]

Ok, I'm back.

The report then goes on to say that the article it references says that the *type* of exposure vapers have is probably more comparable to cigarette smokers (infrequent, higher levels) than to workers (constant, lower levels). Seems reasonable to me, although I would probably say that vapers vape more frequently than smokers smoke.

So, as far as we know, a (tiny) percentage of workers have developed B.O., yet no smokers have, even though they are exposed to higher levels of diacetyl/AP in cigarette smoke. The report doesn't go into the amount of diacetyl/AP in e-cig vapor as opposed to cigarette smoke although I've read reports that vapor has significantly less VOCs. So, to anyone reading the report this far, it would seem that the risk of diacetyl/developing B.O. to vapors in basically non-existent.

But the report goes on to say that it believes that there is a risk to vapers because of the difference in 'inhalation dynamics' between smokers and vapers. Basically vapers tend to take deeper 'hits' and - since B.O. is a 'deep-lung' disease - it might still be a problem for vapers over smokers because we inhale more deeply. <--This is where I have the problem.

First of all, no link has ever been shown between deep breaths and B.O. In fact, I suspect that all the people who have contacted B.O. (workers in plants) would NOT have been taking deep breaths on a frequent basis. There just is not that much truly hard physical labor involved in production work.

Two, the report's conclusion that 'longer' inhalation time equal 'deeper' inhales is not necessarily true. Yes, cloud chasers inhale deeply on occasion but I would suspect that many vapers do not, especially mouth-to-lung vapers. It depends on the type setup you have. And since most studies so far seem to be focused on cigalikes - where long, slow but not necessarily deep drags are the norm - I would suspect that the connection between inhalation time and inhalation depth is nebulous at best.

IMHO, this report took several unwarranted leaps of logic to imply that vapers might be in danger from diacetyl even though absolutely no evidence has shown such a thing.

 

[Count Vapula]

I have lately been wondering about benfits.

but more related the characteristics of vapor

Electrostatic droplet attraction could actually be cleaning our lungs, and PG removing any microbes.

There are many vapers who still get 'tar' from other sources

Both main constituents of eJuice are organic solvents, which are nowhere near being at their solubility peak, which also raises when heated.

And of course, the low absorption rate of the droplets due to being far bigger than the lung's designed function, small air molecules.

/end rambling

 

[Count Vapula]

Some trippy gifs to start the weekend

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2015/04/dancing-droplets/

 

[Kent B Marshall]

I have to admit that I have a problem with this report.

First of all, Bronchiolitus Obliterans ('B.O.') is a very serious disease. I'm not trying to minimize the severity of it in any way.

This report focused on workers in a particular microwave popcorn factory. Air samples were done in the production area and over 100 different 'volatile organic compounds' (VOCs) were found.

This report was about e-liquid contents not some much with vapor
"Introduction: The purpose of this study was to evaluate sweet-flavored electronic cigarette (EC) liquids for the presence of diacetyl (DA) and acetyl propionyl (AP), which are chemicals approved for food use but are associated with respiratory disease when inhaled."

"Conclusions: DA and AP were found in a large proportion of sweet-flavored EC liquids, with many of them exposing users to higher than safety levels."

 

[Kent B Marshall]

The presents of this is known. Risk has to be measured by the individual vapor

 

[Frankm]

I didn't take the study...what's the word...literal? My take is that there well could be a problem inhaling the chemicals. I'm 50 years old and started vaping because I was afraid I was getting ocpd, or something. I do have a mix with slight amounts of da in it, and I do seem to get a little flem while vaping it.

The only real way is gather up some guinea pigs and see how it plays out. Guess what, we are the guinea pigs.

 

[rudogg760]

Anybody see that vaporshark tested ALL the juices they carry for da and ap?

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

[Ravi Brounstein]

TFA has full MSDS sheets for each item they sell. Not terribly likely they are using falsified MSDS ...

I've had great experiences with the staff and products.

Just worth mentioning, you don't always get what you order.

When I was doing DIY in the kitchen long ago I'd order the same thing and get different flavor a than labeled and certainly different brands than labeled. It is one of the problems with going for budget DIY sometimes.

 

[0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes]

Good day all who are reading this. I am reading some of the discussion in the post and see questions of where the report is and is it completed. and the answer is yes it is completed. I will upload it as soon as my lawyer says it is copacetic. I was advised I had to submit my report to TPA/TFA before releasing any such report to the public in order for them to repudiate any claims I am making. In order for me not to be sued I am following his advice. I by law must give TPA/TFA 90 days to respond with any discrepancy they may feel I have made. So to conclude the report is complete and is being reviewed as I am told my above said company.
Sorry it has taken so long to report back but I had to do a military transition on short notice.
Thank you again