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Diacetyl has me scared to vape....

mysteryhf

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So I was reading a news article today (I'm not sure of the forum rules here so I won't post the link, but it was published the other day) and it was talking about ejuice that contains diacetyl and how harmful it can actually be. People have been known to develop "popcorn lung" which basically means you're always wheezing, coughing, having shortness of breath. Does anyone know more about this? Speficially, does my "juice roll upz blue raspberry" contain diacetyl? :( I love vaping but are we all doomed?
 

Zamazam

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First of all, think before you jump to conclusions. Popcorn lung is a result of people (food workers) being exposed to ultra high levels of Di-acetyl for 8 hours a day, 5+ days a week for 8+years. Check the juice manufacturers web site, ask if it is diacetyl free.
 

stevegmu

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Just buy from a trusted vendor who tests and don't believe those who have a monetary interest or agenda who say it is harmless...
 

mysteryhf

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Just buy from a trusted vendor who tests and don't believe those who have a monetary interest or agenda who say it is harmless...

Who do you get your juice from? Know any popular diacetyl-free juice companies by any chance?

Thanks for the replies. :)
 

Neunerball

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Who do you get your juice from? Know any popular diacetyl-free juice companies by any chance?

Thanks for the replies. :)
I wouldn't trust any vendor, unless they provide proper documentation. Just a few months ago, two well liked juice makers came under attack, 'cause they sold juice that was containing the badies (proven by 3rd party labs). However, they still denied that their juices were containing those.
The only safer way, is DIY. Most reliable flavor producer would be Flavour Art. I doubt, they would produce something that could harm themselves. Most of the VIPs in the company vape.
 

HazyShades

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I wouldn't trust any vendor, unless they provide proper documentation. Just a few months ago, two well liked juice makers came under attack, 'cause they sold juice that was containing the badies (proven by 3rd party labs). However, they still denied that their juices were containing those.
The only safer way, is DIY. Most reliable flavor producer would be Flavour Art. I doubt, they would produce something that could harm themselves. Most of the VIPs in the company vape.

http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...n-takes-issue-five-pawns-e-cigarette-liquids/
 

Time

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So I was reading a news article today (I'm not sure of the forum rules here so I won't post the link, but it was published the other day) and it was talking about ejuice that contains diacetyl and how harmful it can actually be. People have been known to develop "popcorn lung" which basically means you're always wheezing, coughing, having shortness of breath. Does anyone know more about this? Speficially, does my "juice roll upz blue raspberry" contain diacetyl? :( I love vaping but are we all doomed?

Did you smoke? Nobody ever got popcorn lung from the diacetyl in cigarettes. The risk is over exaggerated

diacetyl-graph.jpg
 

HazyShades

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Did you smoke? Nobody ever got popcorn lung from the diacetyl in cigarettes. The risk is over exaggerated

diacetyl-graph.jpg

You can get popcorn lung from hanging out by the microwave when you nuke
butter flavored popcorn.
That study OP is worried about was discredited by Dr Farsalinos.
There's a link to the Farsalino article over at Whisley's Corner.

If you read the details of the original study the OP is concerned about you'll
note their machine was vaping like the guy in 'Re***r Madness' like a 10 second toke every 15 seconds
 

OBDave

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1. Diacetyl is most commonly found in "buttery" or "custard-note" flavorings. I'd say a blueberry-raspberry flavor is low on the concern list.

2. The graph @Time posted is worth a look - if you're a smoker, you're probably worse off. If you don't smoke and you're vaping because you think it's cool, you probably shouldn't do that. Inhaling anything that isn't air is worse than inhaling air.

3. @Zamazam makes a good point - every popcorn lung case I've heard of (please jump in if anyone wants to prove me wrong) involves workers in a factory where diacetyl is present in heavy doses.

4. If you're really concerned about what your liquid contains, DIY is the way to go. Flavour Art is the most highly-regarded flavor manufacturer at this particular juncture.
 

Time

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3. @Zamazam makes a good point - every popcorn lung case I've heard of (please jump in if anyone wants to prove me wrong) involves workers in a factory where diacetyl is present in heavy doses.

Every case but one were popcorn flavor factory workers. The one non worker was a guy that really loved microwave popcorn, eating two bags a day or so and he would smell the bags.

It is accurate to say that there has never been a case of popcorn lung that did not involve actual popcorn flavoring.
 
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Time

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You can get popcorn lung from hanging out by the microwave when you nuke
butter flavored popcorn.
That study OP is worried about was discredited by Dr Farsalinos.
There's a link to the Farsalino article over at Whisley's Corner.

If you read the details of the original study the OP is concerned about you'll
note their machine was vaping like the guy in 'Re***r Madness' like a 10 second toke every 15 seconds

Thanks. I'm already aware of the study and DR F's response to it. It has been discussed in other threads.
 

Faceless Vapes

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Cigs have wayyyy more of that and then some. Even if there are trace amounts or Diacetyl in juices you vape, you are not going to get popcorn lung. Not to mention, this chemical has been known to the vaping community and venders for some time, and a lot of juice manufactures try and limit or remove the Diacetyl. I personally wouldn't be overly concerned about it.
 

Flightmedic76

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I vape pre-made juices in small quantities now just to add some variety. For the past month or so I've been making my own (thanks to HIC's recipes). Unless Flavour Art is using it, my juices are all diacetyl free.
 

raymo2u

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Every case but one were popcorn flavor factory workers. The one non worker was a guy that really loved microwave popcorn, eating two bags a day or so and he would smell the bags.

It is accurate to say that there has never been a case of popcorn lung that did not involve actual popcorn flavoring.
The cant prove it was even the Diacetyl that caused the popcorn lung to begin with and just ended the study with that as a result...

The risk is so low that if you have smoked a pack a day for a year then you already have ingested more Diacetyl then you will with a lifetime of chain vaping...ciggs contain 100-1000 times more Diacetyl then eliquids do so theres really no reason for any concern.
 
The cant prove it was even the Diacetyl that caused the popcorn lung to begin with and just ended the study with that as a result...

The risk is so low that if you have smoked a pack a day for a year then you already have ingested more Diacetyl then you will with a lifetime of chain vaping...ciggs contain 100-1000 times more Diacetyl then eliquids do so theres really no reason for any concern.

Everyone keeps talking about cigarettes containing 100-1000x more diacetyl than eliquids but nobody backs that up with facts. Here's a study that lists micrograms (µg) of diacetyl per cigarette between 301-433µg/cig. Lets take the median of that at 367 µg/cig. Multiply that by 20 (pack a day smoker) gives us a daily diacetyl consumption of 7,350 µg.

Harvard just released that study (nobody likes it) but the data doesn't lie. One of the EC's tested contained 238.9 micrograms per millimeter (µg/mL) of diacetyl. Nobody vapes one mL a day so I think 5mL a day is really conservative estimate for daily use. So, 5mL x 238.9µg gives us a daily diacetyl exposure of 1,194µg.

So that would really put diacetyl exposure from cigarettes at only 6x more than what you would experience from eliquids. The question is, do you go through more than 5mL a day? Whats the diacetyl concentration of your eliquid? Also important, did they just replace diacetyl with 2,3-pentandione or diacetyl trimmers? Those are different compounds that carry identical risks as diacetyl.

Not trying to scare anybody - I just think you can't spread around misinformation about the risks like that.
 

raymo2u

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Everyone keeps talking about cigarettes containing 100-1000x more diacetyl than eliquids but nobody backs that up with facts. Here's a study that lists micrograms (µg) of diacetyl per cigarette between 301-433µg/cig. Lets take the median of that at 367 µg/cig. Multiply that by 20 (pack a day smoker) gives us a daily diacetyl consumption of 7,350 µg.

Harvard just released that study (nobody likes it) but the data doesn't lie. One of the EC's tested contained 238.9 micrograms per millimeter (µg/mL) of diacetyl. Nobody vapes one mL a day so I think 5mL a day is really conservative estimate for daily use. So, 5mL x 238.9µg gives us a daily diacetyl exposure of 1,194µg.

So that would really put diacetyl exposure from cigarettes at only 6x more than what you would experience from eliquids. The question is, do you go through more than 5mL a day? Whats the diacetyl concentration of your eliquid? Also important, did they just replace diacetyl with 2,3-pentandione or diacetyl trimmers? Those are different compounds that carry identical risks as diacetyl.

Not trying to scare anybody - I just think you can't spread around misinformation about the risks like that.
Did you also know that they never actually proved Diacytel to have caused popcorn lung, its just what they considered to have caused it. There's only been a handful of cases worldwide of anyone even having it...the risk is lower then being struck by lightning so I dont understand why people are so hyped up about a chemical that may/may not have even caused a problem for people inhaling insane amounts of it for 8 hours a day for years....
Vaping liquid with Diacetyl used as a ingredient, the content is still in trace amounts and even if you vaped 100's of Mls of liquid a day you wouldn't even scratch the surface on how much the people were inhaling in that factory, IMO there will never actually be a case in the future the risk is absolutely minimal in comparison to other daily consumption with Diacetyl in them. Its almost like saying your going to get radiation poisoning from your laptop that you use 2-3 hours day at work.....
 
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Time

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Everyone keeps talking about cigarettes containing 100-1000x more diacetyl than eliquids but nobody backs that up with facts. Here's a study that lists micrograms (µg) of diacetyl per cigarette between 301-433µg/cig. Lets take the median of that at 367 µg/cig. Multiply that by 20 (pack a day smoker) gives us a daily diacetyl consumption of 7,350 µg.

Harvard just released that study (nobody likes it) but the data doesn't lie. One of the EC's tested contained 238.9 micrograms per millimeter (µg/mL) of diacetyl. Nobody vapes one mL a day so I think 5mL a day is really conservative estimate for daily use. So, 5mL x 238.9µg gives us a daily diacetyl exposure of 1,194µg.

So that would really put diacetyl exposure from cigarettes at only 6x more than what you would experience from eliquids. The question is, do you go through more than 5mL a day? Whats the diacetyl concentration of your eliquid? Also important, did they just replace diacetyl with 2,3-pentandione or diacetyl trimmers? Those are different compounds that carry identical risks as diacetyl.

Not trying to scare anybody - I just think you can't spread around misinformation about the risks like that.

Again, nobody has ever gotten popcorn lung outside of actual popcorn flavoring. There is no misinformation. The misinformation is implying that diacetyl, or any diketone, in eliquid can cause popcorn lung. It is an assumption on your part, not a fact. There is no direct link to popcorn lung and diketones in eliquid. If you want to stick to bare bones facts, popcorn flavoring is directly linked to popcorn lung. That is the only plain fact.

RadiationWhole.jpg
 

raymo2u

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Again, nobody has ever gotten popcorn lung outside of actual popcorn flavoring. There is no misinformation. The misinformation is implying that diacetyl, or any diketone, in eliquid can cause popcorn lung. It is an assumption on your part, not a fact. There is no direct link to popcorn lung and diketones in eliquid. If you want to stick to bare bones facts, popcorn flavoring is directly linked to popcorn lung. That is the only plain fact.

RadiationWhole.jpg
100% correct, the popcorn flavoring was the culprit but they never actually proved it was the Diacetyl used that caused the popcorn lung, it is still unknown what actually caused the popcorn lung to infest its victims.
 

Time

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100% correct, the popcorn flavoring was the culprit but they never actually proved it was the Diacetyl used that caused the popcorn lung, it is still unknown what actually caused the popcorn lung to infest its victims.

Not only that, but nearly all if not all factory workers were smokers. At the very least, you'd have to stack the blue column onto the purple column for the daily diacetyl intake for those workers. Now add in that their lungs probably weren't in great shape from the 4000 chemicals from their cigs.
 
Not only that, but nearly all if not all factory workers were smokers. At the very least, you'd have to stack the blue column onto the purple column for the daily diacetyl intake for those workers. Now add in that their lungs probably weren't in great shape from the 4000 chemicals from their cigs.

Stacking columns, really? You guys can't provide me with any numbers to back up your claims. And you also fail to factor in diketones which cause the exact same damage as diacetyl, like 2,3-pentandione.

edit: Plus you don't provide a source for that chart so its completely meaningless.
 

raymo2u

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"The scientific evidence gathered to date indicates that the problem is not limited to diacetyl. It is likely other chemicals used in the production of flavorings can cause or exacerbate lung disease. OSHA has issued permissible exposure limits (PELs) and/or NIOSH has recommended exposure limits (RELs) for only 46 of the 1,037 flavoring ingredients considered by the flavorings industry to represent potential respiratory hazards."
- http://defendingscience.org/case-studies/case-regulatory-failure-popcorn-workers-lung

Im sure if I wanted to I could find a million studies that "prove its Diacetyl and its bad for you" and it will be recent and from a profiteer....
Those cases you mentioned were people inhaling ridiculous amounts of airborne chemicals for many years on end...there are only TRACE amounts of Diacetyl and diketones in eliquid bud...

Your Popcorn Eating Lawsuit:
"Nevertheless, it is possible for extreme MW popcorn consumption patterns to result in potential health concerns. A Colorado man who claimed that he developed “popcorn lung” from eating about 2 bags of MW popcorn every day for 10 y was awarded damages in 2012 (Jaslow 2012). It was further revealed that this man would frequently inhale the contents of the popcorn bags immediately after opening them (Harris 2007). Air sampling around the man’s house revealed airborne levels of diacetyl allegedly consistent with levels found in MW popcorn plants (Harris 2007). Yet even the man’s doctor conceded that there was no definitive causal link between the man’s exposure to diacetyl and his pulmonary disease (Jaslow 2012)."
- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12150/pdf

"Galbraith and Weill (2009), who conducted a critical review of related journal articles and Health Hazard Evaluation Reports by the NIOSH, also did not conclude that diacetyl is the causative agent of BO cases in occupational settings involving ABF, but promoted further research to establish causative agent(s)."
- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12150/pd
 
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"The scientific evidence gathered to date indicates that the problem is not limited to diacetyl. It is likely other chemicals used in the production of flavorings can cause or exacerbate lung disease. OSHA has issued permissible exposure limits (PELs) and/or NIOSH has recommended exposure limits (RELs) for only 46 of the 1,037 flavoring ingredients considered by the flavorings industry to represent potential respiratory hazards."
- http://defendingscience.org/case-studies/case-regulatory-failure-popcorn-workers-lung

Im sure if I wanted to I could find a million studies that "prove its Diacetyl and its bad for you" and it will be recent and from a profiteer....
Those cases you mentioned were people inhaling ridiculous amounts of airborne chemicals for many years on end...there are only TRACE amounts of Diacetyl and diketones in eliquid bud...

Your Popcorn Eating Lawsuit:
"Nevertheless, it is possible for extreme MW popcorn consumption patterns to result in potential health concerns. A Colorado man who claimed that he developed “popcorn lung” from eating about 2 bags of MW popcorn every day for 10 y was awarded damages in 2012 (Jaslow 2012). It was further revealed that this man would frequently inhale the contents of the popcorn bags immediately after opening them (Harris 2007). Air sampling around the man’s house revealed airborne levels of diacetyl allegedly consistent with levels found in MW popcorn plants (Harris 2007). Yet even the man’s doctor conceded that there was no definitive causal link between the man’s exposure to diacetyl and his pulmonary disease (Jaslow 2012)."
- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12150/pdf

"Galbraith and Weill (2009), who conducted a critical review of related journal articles and Health Hazard Evaluation Reports by the NIOSH, also did not conclude that diacetyl is the causative agent of BO cases in occupational settings involving ABF, but promoted further research to establish causative agent(s)."
- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12150/pd


So if you saw reports from the U.S. Center for Disease Control (CDC), the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), all of which are government organizations, you would believe what they say? Because they all say the same thing about the link between diketones and bronchiolitis obliterans.

And you say they were inhaling ridiculous amounts of airborne chemicals but you still can't list any data. Who's determining what's ridiculous?

"Trace amounts" of eliquids?
Here's Five Pawns own test results.

Or here where VaporShark sent nearly all eliquids they carry for testing (for those who still refuse to check anything, "AP" in their results is Acetylpropionyl otherwise known as 2,3-pentanedione).

NIOSH recommends that workers in flavoring factories limit their exposure of diacetyl to 5 ppb (parts per billion) as a time weighted average during a 40 hour work week. The maximum short term exposure limit (STEL) is 25 ppb over a 15 minute period. For acetyl propionyl (2,3-pentanedione) they recommend 9.3 ppb as a time weighted average over a 40 hour work week. For short term exposure, they recommend 31 ppb over a 15 minute period.

NIOSH contends that workers exposed to these concentrations will have a 1/1000 chance of contracting a serious lung issue, so they are fairly conservative and safe numbers. However, notice how the numbers found in eliquid are measured in parts per million but the NIOSH recommendations are in parts per billion. For those of you who didn't go to school, one billion = 1,000 million. NIOSH is recommending 5 nanograms (ppb) exposure, not 5 micrograms (ppm)

The popcorn factories where workers became ill were studied and air samples were taken. They then calculated the amount of diacetyl (in ppm) found in the air. In the mixing room, they found an average of 57 ppm. In other words, the workers who became ill (and need lung transplants) were only exposed to an average of 57 ppm of diacetyl (yes, they were exposed for 8 hours a day).

Let's say you vape 5mL of Beard's #51 per day. Since there is 1843 micrograms per milliliter (ug/mL) of AP in that liquid (or 1843 ppm), this means you would be inhaling 9,215 micrograms per day or 64,505 micrograms per week. That's 64,505,000 nanograms per week. So, at 5mL a day, you get 9,215 micrograms. 9215/24 = 384 ug per hour. 384/4 = 96 ug per 15 minutes. The STEL (15 minute exposure limit) for AP is 31 ppb or 31 nanograms. Therefore, the 15 minute exposure from vaping would be 96,000 nanograms compared to the NIOSH recommendation of 31 nanograms.
 

raymo2u

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So if you saw reports from the U.S. Center for Disease Control (CDC), the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), all of which are government organizations, you would believe what they say? Because they all say the same thing about the link between diketones and bronchiolitis obliterans.

And you say they were inhaling ridiculous amounts of airborne chemicals but you still can't list any data. Who's determining what's ridiculous?

"Trace amounts" of eliquids?
Here's Five Pawns own test results.

Or here where VaporShark sent nearly all eliquids they carry for testing (for those who still refuse to check anything, "AP" in their results is Acetylpropionyl otherwise known as 2,3-pentanedione).

NIOSH recommends that workers in flavoring factories limit their exposure of diacetyl to 5 ppb (parts per billion) as a time weighted average during a 40 hour work week. The maximum short term exposure limit (STEL) is 25 ppb over a 15 minute period. For acetyl propionyl (2,3-pentanedione) they recommend 9.3 ppb as a time weighted average over a 40 hour work week. For short term exposure, they recommend 31 ppb over a 15 minute period.

NIOSH contends that workers exposed to these concentrations will have a 1/1000 chance of contracting a serious lung issue, so they are fairly conservative and safe numbers. However, notice how the numbers found in eliquid are measured in parts per million but the NIOSH recommendations are in parts per billion. For those of you who didn't go to school, one billion = 1,000 million. NIOSH is recommending 5 nanograms (ppb) exposure, not 5 micrograms (ppm)

The popcorn factories where workers became ill were studied and air samples were taken. They then calculated the amount of diacetyl (in ppm) found in the air. In the mixing room, they found an average of 57 ppm. In other words, the workers who became ill (and need lung transplants) were only exposed to an average of 57 ppm of diacetyl (yes, they were exposed for 8 hours a day).

Let's say you vape 5mL of Beard's #51 per day. Since there is 1843 micrograms per milliliter (ug/mL) of AP in that liquid (or 1843 ppm), this means you would be inhaling 9,215 micrograms per day or 64,505 micrograms per week. That's 64,505,000 nanograms per week. So, at 5mL a day, you get 9,215 micrograms. 9215/24 = 384 ug per hour. 384/4 = 96 ug per 15 minutes. The STEL (15 minute exposure limit) for AP is 31 ppb or 31 nanograms. Therefore, the 15 minute exposure from vaping would be 96,000 nanograms compared to the NIOSH recommendation of 31 nanograms.

I wouldn't believe any study from anyone who takes money from companies that want the study in their favor...You can keep telling me Diacetyl is crazy harmful and find studies and more about it yet theres only a handful of case of people that have had health issues from it and the environments and circumstances were way outside of what you will inhale from vaping. People who will worry are people that worry about things that dont matter much outside of extreme cases, I am not one who dwells on things that wont ever present a problem. Vaping is a SAFER alternative from cigarettes and again it is much safer then smoking, which contains much more Diacetyl then eliquid and they have been used for decades and decades with no cases of popcorn lung...Ill keep vaping, you can choose to freak out or not on your own.
 

Time

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Stacking columns, really? You guys can't provide me with any numbers to back up your claims. And you also fail to factor in diketones which cause the exact same damage as diacetyl, like 2,3-pentandione.

edit: Plus you don't provide a source for that chart so its completely meaningless.

Ah, you're one of those. You think providing links makes you right.

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Do you also run around the internet and warn people not to drink water because water has been linked to drowning?

This subject is quite old and well documented here at VU and I hardly have the time nor inclination to rehash it with a first time poster that I don't really know even vapes. So you might want to crawl back to whatever hole you crawled out of as you're not the first of several brand new VU members to come in recent days to spew your garbage. So, are you all coming from a specific place to promote your agenda?
 

HeadInClouds

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every popcorn lung case I've heard of (please jump in if anyone wants to prove me wrong) involves workers in a factory where diacetyl is present in heavy doses.
--and--
It is accurate to say that there has never been a case of popcorn lung that did not involve actual popcorn flavoring.

Bronchiolitis obliterans has been known to the medical community since the early 1900s and has numerous known causes. For example, here is a short list of known causes, specifically discussing children: http://www.child-foundation.com/what-is-child/types-of-child/bronchiolitis-obliterans/ . Another occupational hazard is styrene resin, a cause of bronchiolitis obliterans in boat builders. Here's a discussion of it and lung transplants: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162889/ . This is not a new disease, and it was described in medical literature long before microwaves and jugs of popcorn flavoring; only since the link to that industry has it gained the fanciful nickname of "popcorn lung".
 
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Time

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--and--


Bronchiolitis obliterans has been known to the medical community since the early 1900s and has numerous known causes. For example, here is a short list of known causes, specifically discussing children: http://www.child-foundation.com/what-is-child/types-of-child/bronchiolitis-obliterans/ . Another occupational hazard is styrene resin, a cause of bronchiolitis obliterans in boat builders. Here's a discussion of it and lung transplants: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162889/ . This is not a new disease, and it was described in medical literature long before microwaves and jugs of popcorn flavoring; only since the link to that industry has it gained the fanciful nickname of "popcorn lung".

And none of those pertain to diketones.

So, in the spirit of context, I'll stick to my statement.

It is accurate to say that there has never been a case of popcorn lung that did not involve actual popcorn flavoring.

And, I suppose I could add a direct quote from the diketone scare founder himself, Dr F;

"In conclusion, the article is creating false impressions and exaggerates the potential risk from diacetyl and acetyl propionyl exposure through e-cigarettes. They failed to mention that these chemicals are present in tobacco cigarette smoke and violated a classical toxicological principle that the amount determines the toxicity and the risk."

Underlining is mine for emphasis.

And a link to the statement. http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/236-da2
 

CurlyxCracker

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Just buy from a trusted vendor who tests and don't believe those who have a monetary interest or agenda who say it is harmless...
Problem is that's a lot of vendors....
 

CurlyxCracker

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I vape pre-made juices in small quantities now just to add some variety. For the past month or so I've been making my own (thanks to HIC's recipes). Unless Flavour Art is using it, my juices are all diacetyl free.
FA does use it in their kitchen magic line. Just be careful of what vendor you get if from and if they are actually stating it's from the kitchen magic line. Pandoro for one is a kitchen magic flavor and I still vape it in small quantities sometimes, more comfortable doing that than smoking, although I AM NOT recommending someone else try it! That's my own risk assessment similar to those using efest batteries in a mech.
 

HeadInClouds

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It is accurate to say that there has never been a case of popcorn lung that did not involve actual popcorn flavoring.

(I linked to proof of numerous other causes, and Time replied :

And none of those pertain to diketones.
So, in the spirit of context, I'll stick to my statement.

@normandbunk already gave an example pertaining to diketones, in post 24. That coffee-processing study was updated last month to include more cases of B.O. and more data: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26523478 "Current workers have occupational lung morbidity associated with high diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures, which were not limited to flavoring areas."

It's clear that bronchiolitis obliterans does NOT always involve popcorn flavoring. I don't understand why you insist otherwise.
Yes, after the cluster of cases at that one popcorn factory, more popcorn factories were studied and additional clusters found at (at least) 3 other locations.

In both the coffee and the popcorn factories, nonsmokers were indeed affected. From the original popcorn factory study, New England Journal of Medicine, "Overall, the workers had 3.3 times the expected rate of airway obstruction; those who had never smoked had 10.8 times the expected rate"
Note that is "airway obstruction" - not necessarily B.O. resulting in death. Since the original poster mentioned "wheezing, coughing, having shortness of breath" those statistics seem relevant. At least 2 of the diagnosed B.O. cases in the coffee factory were non-smokers.


With those few facts laid out for reference in the form of published scientific studies, I'll step aside. I have no wish to even present my personal opinion, much less debate it.
 
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Time

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(I linked to proof of numerous other causes, and Time replied :



@normandbunk already gave an example pertaining to diketones, in post 24. That coffee-processing study was updated last month to include more cases of B.O. and more data: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26523478 "Current workers have occupational lung morbidity associated with high diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures, which were not limited to flavoring areas."

It's clear that bronchiolitis obliterans does NOT always involve popcorn flavoring. I don't understand why you insist otherwise.
Yes, after the cluster of cases at that one popcorn factory, more popcorn factories were studied and additional clusters found at (at least) 3 other locations.

In both the coffee and the popcorn factories, nonsmokers were indeed affected. From the original popcorn factory study, New England Journal of Medicine, "Overall, the workers had 3.3 times the expected rate of airway obstruction; those who had never smoked had 10.8 times the expected rate"
Note that is "airway obstruction" - not necessarily B.O. resulting in death. Since the original poster mentioned "wheezing, coughing, having shortness of breath" those statistics seem relevant. At least 2 of the diagnosed B.O. cases in the coffee factory were non-smokers.


With those few facts laid out for reference in the form of published scientific studies, I'll step aside. I have no wish to even present my personal opinion, much less debate it.

You're arguing semantics? Have fun with that.
 

rakkwarrior

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Thank you all who have substantially contributed to this thread. Your research and willingness to post uncomfortable but true unbiased information is helpful.
 

skoony

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OB or popcorn lung is considered a occupational disease caused by inhaling diacetyl laced dust
in quantities only found in commercial/industrial processing plants.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...respiratory_disorders/pneumoconiosis_134,162/
These conditions are unlikely to be found by consumers of products containing diacetyl. The single
case of a non-worker getting OB was a jury award not confirmation that diacetyl was the cause as
he had been exposed to other chemicals which the jury discounted.
 

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