@Mikser
You need to fix you FA info IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG
ALl flavours are tested for diketones and its published
http://flavourartnaflavourreports.com/
SO stop saying they dont give info on that
Here we go again...
Matt, on your list ONLY flavors without diketones were tested. NOT ALL flavors. Flavors that contain D or AP are not tested and those are not on your list.
You can find all their flavorings on their official website
here. Take your time and you will find about 30+ flavorings for which no testing reports are publicly released since they contain Diacetyl/AP.
Here is a
list of FA flavorings that aren't on your link of reports (there may be others; i didn't check them all).
------------
Capella has similar policy. They publicly list testing reports ONLY for flavors which are D/AP/A free (
here), but there are NO testing reports of flavorings with diketones (which they are selling) publicly available.
This is the fact here: These two companies are showing us testing reports of their diketone-free flavors and hide reports of flavors with diketones, while other companies publicly publish test reports of ALL their flavorings.
Now take a second (and i really ask you to take this second) and think about, what would it be, if all companies would be presenting only testing reports of their diketone-free flavorings? Would that be cool? Why publish any info about testings at all then? Using some data and hiding other data is not equal to those companies who show all data, good and bad; it is not a very best example of transparency and this information may be misleading to users.
------------
There is another thing with FA. They don't release any public information about Acetoin levels in their flavorings. Acetoin is Ketone, not Di-ketone, but it's not on a safe side and that's why companies are trying to reduce its levels, same like with D/AP. Since manufacturers know that this is an information that concerns some vapers, they are releasing their testing reports about all three, D, AP and A (and because of similar structure also the public and organizations are usually talking about these 3 molecules together).
On my top table (DAAP transparency) you will find out that all companies who have released test reports of their flavorings publicly, they all included test reports about Acetoin levels, except FA). Why is that? Is that transparent? Nope. They may say their flavorings are diketone free, which may be true (since Acetoin is not a DI-ketone), but that doesn't mean their flavorings are D
AAP free.
Here is an example how twisted the information could be, if you hide info about Acetoin levels in your flavors. Here is a table of Flavor West flavorings:
Now please hide that column of Acetoin levels in their flavorings and see what you get... Very high levels of Acetoin are hidden and you get a twisted impression about very low levels of baddies in their flavors, right? It is misleading. Can you see the problem of hiding levels of Acetoin and what info we get if all companies decide to hide this info? Please think about it objectively.
And they do more testing on the effects of the flavorings on living cells that NOONE ELSE DOES
http://www.clearstreamonward.com/home-en/
I DO believe that FA is one of the leaders regarding safety in vaping industry and i applaud to their Clearstream testings and all other researches. I really do. I also believe that levels of Acetoin in their flavorings are below average. I said this before, about one third of my flavors are FA and most of them i will buy again (i am not that diketone concerned, because i somehow trust this company).
But this thread is
about transparency and based on publicly available information about D-A-AP levels and not how much you and i
'trust' any company. To make it useful and unbiased we have to treat all companies equally, right? That is the only way to make any comparison meaningful and any information useful. This is the only way information is not misleading and manipulative and it is based on facts. And facts are what is officially published by the company and NOT what public opinion is or what a certain company's fan-club believes. Publicly released information only!
I said this numerous times and i will say it again – please help us make this information more useful and more transparent; if you have any other information that is publicly released about D-A-AP levels about FA or any other company, then please share it. If you have just an opinion or if you want to share a
'public truth' or if you are part of a fan club of a certain company or otherwise biased, then your contribution is welcome as well, but please do realize that is just that - your opinion, if it's not based on some facts. And your opinion cannot be included into D-A-AP TRANSPARENCY report and comparison. It's just your opinion.
It seems many would want from me to present manipulative information which is not based on facts = on publicly released information, but they want me to twist the comparison in favor of their favorite company. I can't do that; i am not involved in any vaping business and that is why i believe this is the most useful thread for diketone-concerned vapers ever (precisely because all is shown based on facts = publicly released info). Independent vapers may like it and those who are part of the industry or who believe in unsupported
'public truth' will hate it. The latter have their own fan clubs and numerous threads available, and info in this thread is meant primarily for the first ones, who don't have many other options.
Transparency is in any vaper's interest (if not involved in the industry). We all trust one company more than the other, not just in vaping, but overall, right? But why wouldn't someone (if not involved in the industry) want that some info stay hidden? Transparency is driving changes and we all know that in 15 years from now, we will be vaping totally different liquids than today and those will be even safer than today. More transparent companies will be, sooner this will happen and better for us, right?
So unless you are shilling for one of these other flavor companies tell the truth in your original post that you keep updating.
It is shamefull that even after you have been informed by people you keep incorrect info in your original post that you have updated
Do you see the paradox here? It is you who insists that i should rely on unsupported claims, public truth and manipulate the findings, while i want these findings keep independent and objective.
Disclaimer: I am is NOT affiliated in any manner with any company mentioned herein. This report and comparisons discussed are intended solely for information purposes. I cannot guarantee the validity of the information found in this thread. The content of any given information may recently have been incomplete, changed, vandalized or altered.
The content and references to manufacturers, their products or transparency are provided “as is” without warranties of any kind, either express or implied. No written information or advice given will create a warranty and you may not rely on any such information or advice. Any use of this information is at your own risk. If you need specific advice, please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area.
Feel free to challenge me, disagree with me, or tell me I’m completely nuts in the comments, but i will continue updating these info only based on manufacturer's official publicly released information, which only concerns me and not by personal opinions of some groups. Some vapers may read it and together we can make a positive change regarding transparency.
Independent research showed no Diacetyl and AP in their VAPING flavors, but...
Holy fuck, batman! You're right. FA, like FW before, has been hiding acetoin content. This really puts a crimp on my mixes. Blindly trusting FA ... hiding in plain sight as it were ... like 'Paris in the the spring', most people will not see the 'the the' ... sneaky.
They want us to all go back to smoking, so they can keep raking in the death-money, and keep browbeating smokers about how evil they are... but they don't REALLY want any of them to actually quit, because that would reduce the death-money... they just want to have a group of people they can demonize, and feel more virtuous than.
pretty much the whole time!
