Do we have a responsibility?

[SMOKIE]

This is my personal opinion and feel free to respectfully disagree. I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that pot can lead to stronger drugs. That most people who are on ****** used pot as their first drug. I would also go on to say that vaping is similar but not the same as smoking. While most of us used vaping to get off of cigarettes, perhaps some kids would use it as a gateway to smoking because they might feel it is the next level of rebellion and coolness.

Well Yes if your very weak minded or influenced by others maybe!

I grew up smoking Mary Jane for many many years along with loads of friends, and not one of them or me ever used ******. We did blow here and there which was the club drug back in those days, chicks use to dig it with you getting a quickie licky if you know what I mean.

 

[bobnat]

Yeah, you were a little rude.

No, he wasn't. You're hyper-sensitive.

 

[bobnat]

Then someone came out with this "popcorn lung" theory. Sure - PG causes popcorn lung. If all you ever did was breathe PG night and day. Big Tobacco will say just about anything.

The Harvard study that brought that out tried to link Diacetyl to popcorn lung, not PG. It was based on one case study in a popcorn factory and specifically it was the "butter" coating they put on that stuff. Just as an aside, my wife made some of that last week and when I went into the kitchen and smelled the bag it had been it, it was such a foul chemical smell. I don't know how anyone eats that stuff. Finally, the authors of the study supposedly apologized for the furor their study caused and they stated that it was only correlation, not causality, at best.

 

[SteveS45]

Since you agree so much @zeeter why don't you move to San Fransisco?

San Francisco Voters Uphold Ban on Flavored Vaping Products

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/health/vaping-ban-san-francisco.html

https://vaperrights.com/flavor-bans/

 

[bobnat]

This is my personal opinion and feel free to respectfully disagree. I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that *** can lead to stronger drugs. That most people who are on h*roin used *** as their first drug. I would also go on to say that vaping is similar but not the same as smoking. While most of us used vaping to get off of cigarettes, perhaps some kids would use it as a gateway to smoking because they might feel it is the next level of rebellion and coolness.

Jeez. If one drug leads to another, a supposed gateway, it's because the person is seeking a stronger, faster, more intense high. The idea that someone would vape Fruity Pebbles for the candy flavor alone, then would switch to Marlboro is fucking ludicrous. Many teenagers aren't even using nicotine, so you can't say they're chasing the nic buzz. And if they were, they could just up the nic % without having to suck in all the shit in the cigs. I understand a never smoker saying something like this, but you should know better.

 

[zeeter]

No, he wasn't. You're hyper-sensitive.

Dude, in response to several of your posts, you need to read the entire thread. I changed my position on the matter.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Yet by making these great flavored e-liquids that we all agree are at least 95% safer than cigarettes aren't we removing a bit of the deterrent that prevents kids from smoking now? That is, might we wind up with more kids vaping than we had kids smoking due to the flavors? I mean cigarettes came in two flavors - menthol and regular unless you want to throw in clove, which only people who wanted to be annoying smoked. Now we have all of these delicious flavors out there which we say are nearly harmless.

Yeah, I'm 14 and this isn't a dangerous cigarette, so sure - I'll give it a try.

Hmmmmm.....I don’t know about all that. I don’t think they know about all the studies. I don’t think they care about gateways. They don’t care about deterrents. And I don’t think they even really care about flavors. Yes, we all know about those things but ask any 14-18 year old about studies, gateway drugs or deterrents? Nah....

Can I have it? No. Then I want it.
Does it f*** me up? I definitely want it.
Is it gonna piss mom and Dad off? I want it.
Am I gonna fit in? I want it.
Oooh, and it tastes good(debatable)! Bonus.

 

[SteveS45]

Far reaching flavor bans are not the solution. At the state and local levels, Vaper Rights believes the focus should remain on preventing underage access to e-vapor products, and ensuring responsible marketing and responsible sales of e-vapor products.

Vaper Rights opposes comprehensive flavor bans because:

• They limit adult choice.
• They unfairly prevent adults from buying products they prefer.
• Flavor options exist for a variety of age restricted consumer products. They should be allowed for e-vapor products as well.

https://vaperrights.com/flavor-bans/

 

[JuicyLucy]

This is my personal opinion and feel free to respectfully disagree. I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that p*t can lead to stronger drugs. That most people who are on h*roin used pot as their first drug. I would also go on to say that vaping is similar but not the same as smoking. While most of us used vaping to get off of cigarettes, perhaps some kids would use it as a gateway to smoking because they might feel it is the next level of rebellion and coolness.

Actually, over-prescribing painkillers is the number one gateway to opiate addiction - and it is proven that a very high percentage of teenager drug-abusers began/keep abusing by filching prescription drugs and move on to buying and even dealing

I think lying to kids about m*rijuana is actually the biggest gateway to abuse of harder drugs

Once a kid figures out they were lied to about m*rijuana, they figure the warnings about harder drugs were also

Yet by making these great flavored e-liquids that we all agree are at least 95% safer than cigarettes aren't we removing a bit of the deterrent that prevents kids from smoking now?

Not really - I think the more we try to keep kids from vaping at all, the more they will want to do it for the cool factor and to make them feel like an adult

If we take away flavors - especially tasty sweet ones - kids are still gonna vape but fewer adults will quit smoking

 

[SteveS45]

I recently saw a kid walking down the street and he stealthly vaped and cupped his MOD and my thought was at least he isn't smoking..................

Did I say something to him him to discourage or encourage it? NO

Edit: Although he was an older Teen he did not look old enough to have purchased it legally. For all I know his parents might have bought it for him.

 

[SteveS45]

NY – Stop a Flavor Ban before it Starts! (UPDATED)

http://www.casaa.org/call-to-action/ny-stop-a-flavor-ban-before-it-starts/

 

[r055co]

This is my personal opinion and feel free to respectfully disagree. I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that *** can lead to stronger drugs. That most people who are on h*roin used *** as their first drug. I would also go on to say that vaping is similar but not the same as smoking. While most of us used vaping to get off of cigarettes, perhaps some kids would use it as a gateway to smoking because they might feel it is the next level of rebellion and coolness.

Then Sugar is a gateway drug

 

[JuicyLucy]

Then Sugar is a gateway drug

I truly believe it is - a real scourge

I'm not for outlawing it, but I wish people were bette educated about what they are putting in their bodies - and in their children

 

[wildgypsy70]

Then Sugar is a gateway drug

I truly believe it is - a real scourge

I'm not for outlawing it, but I wish people were bette educated about what they are putting in their bodies - and in their children

Yup. All of this.

 

[r055co]

I truly believe it is - a real scourge

I'm not for outlawing it, but I wish people were bette educated about what they are putting in their bodies - and in their children

Yep

Here's another idea, ban grapes. Wine is made from grapes so grapes are a gateway to alcoholism, same logic and reasoning.

Maybe educating instead of banning would prove to be more productive.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Yep

Here's another idea, ban grapes. Wine is made from grapes so grapes are a gateway to alcoholism, same logic and reasoning.

Maybe educating instead of banning would prove to be more productive.

Lol! And wheat, hops, potatoes, water, plums, strawberries....what else can be put into alcohol? Or makes alcohol? Humans have been making alcohol out of anything they can get their hands on since the first human got drunk.

 

[bobnat]

Lol! And wheat, hops, potatoes, water, plums, strawberries....what else can be put into alcohol? Or makes alcohol? Humans have been making alcohol out of anything they can get their hands on since the first human got drunk.

We have got to ban humans, that's the only reasonable solution.

You know how teenagers can be so deeply embarrassed by their parents? Someday, the artificial intelligence of the world will take a long look at humans and think, WTF? We gotta get rid of them!

 

[St.Roostifer]

While I understand where you are coming from in you point of view I don’t think that eliminating one type of flavor would be effective. Teens are just the same as adults. Not all of them will like the candy flavors. I do think that the manufacturer should not only be responsible in the way their products are packaged and presented, they should also be held accountable. Visual appeal plays a huge part in any type of marketing. Ultimately it comes down to the parents acting like parents and not trying to be their teens best friend. If you choose to have children then it’s your responsibility to look after those children not society’s.


Carpe Nidor

I was about to post the exact same thing. Well said!

I am absolutely against flavor banning in every way. Children are used as excuses for dumb assed politicians to regulate an industry that doesn't need regulating. That's the problem though. Politicians see how well the vape community regulates itself and they can't stand not being in control so they use children as excuses to get their grubby little mittens into the mix. It's about power and control for the egocentric politicians. If a grown adult chooses to vape a candy flavored ejuice that's their right, period.

 

[jwill]

Lol! And wheat, hops, potatoes, water, plums, strawberries....what else can be put into alcohol? Or makes alcohol? Humans have been making alcohol out of anything they can get their hands on since the first human got drunk.

Any fruit can be made into alcohol and anything that can be a yeast so all bread has to go.

 

[wildgypsy70]

I was about to post the exact same thing. Well said!

I am absolutely against flavor banning in every way. Children are used as excuses for dumb assed politicians to regulate an industry that doesn't need regulating. That's the problem though. Politicians see how well the vape community regulates itself and they can't stand not being in control so they use children as excuses to get their grubby little mittens into the mix. It's about power and control for the egocentric politicians. If a grown adult chooses to vape a candy flavored ejuice that's their right, period.

Totally agree! All the way.

“Oh, the children!” Please. Kids have been getting into trouble since the dawn of time. They have been doing stuff they’re not supposed to do for centuries. Even if parents are doing what they’re supposed to be doing, they STILL will do stuff they’re not supposed to do. All about power and control. Spot on.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Any fruit can be made into alcohol and anything that can be a yeast so all bread has to go.

Well, damn.

 

[St.Roostifer]

Saying that vaping is a gateway to smoking is like saying that filet mignon is a gateway to dumpster diving behind McD's.

Pot a gateway? Ok... I use pot so I DON'T have drinking dreams, which makes it less like likely that I'll be tempted to drink. Ergo, pot is a gateway OUT of drinking.

Anymore idiotic ideas? Or do you just WANT to do the idiot fascist control-freaks' job for them?

I can't stand the taste of licorice. Therefore LICORICE SHOULD BE BANNED!!!!!

Andria

I see the brainwashing and dumbing down is alive and kicking. Smoke and mirrors. There's no such thing as a gateway, only a mind that has set it's sights on something it desires. An addictive mindset if you will. Doesn't matter what the substance is; alcohol, nicotine, sugar or the variety of drugs out there. Our minds tell us we need these things but we don't, we merely choose to indulge. Nothing wrong with indulging as long as the indulgence isn't detrimental to others. What others do with their life in their free time is their business.

 

[r055co]

Lol! And wheat, hops, potatoes, water, plums, strawberries....what else can be put into alcohol? Or makes alcohol? Humans have been making alcohol out of anything they can get their hands on since the first human got drunk.

Potatoes, Broccoli, Tomatoes, Eggplant plus a few others are a gateway to smoking because they contain Nicotine!

Poppyseed Muffins are a gateway to Smack also because they all come from the Poppy!

Hell we might as all just die because everything is a gateway!

 

[jwill]

Potatoes, Broccoli, Tomatoes, Eggplant plus a few others are a gateway to smoking because they contain Nicotine!

Poppyseed Muffins are a gateway to Smack also because they all come from the Poppy!

Hell we might as all just die because everything is a gateway!

Everything is a gateway to death. That needs to be a song title.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Any fruit can be made into alcohol and anything that can be a yeast so all bread has to go.

As an adherent to the Paleo lifestyle, I agree on the bread. I don't eat grains or cereals, so I don't want anyone else to either

If we ban candy flavors it will screw all those diabetics and others out there who have to give up sugar and now get their sweets through vaping. But seriously, when I was told by numerous medical doctors, including specialists, I had to give up processed sugar and all grains, I thought I would die. Vaping sweets really helped.

For the Type II diabetic, its probably their own fault for getting the disease by eating crappy stuff, so why should they deserve to vape what they can't eat?

 

[St.Roostifer]

Totally agree! All the way.

“Oh, the children!” Please. Kids have been getting into trouble since the dawn of time. They have been doing stuff they’re not supposed to do for centuries. Even if parents are doing what they’re supposed to be doing, they STILL will do stuff they’re not supposed to do. All about power and control. Spot on.

Exactly! I was 17 when I started smoking and I did it out of curiosity despite growing up in a smoke free household. My parents preached to me about the dangers of smoking and it didn't stop me from trying it. Curiosity is a part of growing up and the best thing parents can do is raise them as best they can in hopes their children make the right choices as they become adults.

 

[AndriaD]

I see the brainwashing and dumbing down is alive and kicking. Smoke and mirrors. There's no such thing as a gateway, only a mind that has set it's sights on something it desires. An addictive mindset if you will. Doesn't matter what the substance is; alcohol, nicotine, sugar or the variety of drugs out there. Our minds tell us we need these things but we don't, we merely choose to indulge. Nothing wrong with indulging as long as the indulgence isn't detrimental to others. What others do with their life in their free time is their business.

I agree. But the fact is.. that green stuff does keep the drinking dreams away; it never fails, when I've tried to quit that too, either I can't fall asleep AT ALL, or I have drinking dreams. So I'm with Willie Nelson: the green stuff isn't gonna hurt me, but the drinking nearly killed me.

And besides all that... even if "gateways" do exist... one does have freewill and agency, and can choose not to walk thru them. For all my problems with drugs and alcohol... I've never tried that street narcotic that's so prevalent wtih rockstars, because I chose not to.

I also chose to walk thru the one labelled "to continued life, and good health," and leave behind the one labelled "dying of liver failure." Choice and agency.

Andria

 

[St.Roostifer]

I agree. But the fact is.. that green stuff does keep the drinking dreams away; it never fails, when I've tried to quit that too, either I can't fall asleep AT ALL, or I have drinking dreams. So I'm with Willie Nelson: the green stuff isn't gonna hurt me, but the drinking nearly killed me.

And besides all that... even if "gateways" do exist... one does have freewill and agency, and can choose not to walk thru them. For all my problems with drugs and alcohol... I've never tried that street narcotic that's so prevalent wtih rockstars, because I chose not to.

I also chose to walk thru the one labelled "to continued life, and good health," and leave behind the one labelled "dying of liver failure." Choice and agency.

Andria

I hear ya and agree with you and Willie. Never got into the street drugs myself. Always been a stoner at heart.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Exactly! I was 17 when I started smoking and I did it out of curiosity despite growing up in a smoke free household. My parents preached to me about the dangers of smoking and it didn't stop me from trying it. Curiosity is a part of growing up and the best thing parents can do is raise them as best they can in hopes their children make the right choices as they become adults.

Yup. Me, too. And both my adult kids did stuff I wasn’t privy to. And some stuff I knew about and wasn’t pleased about. And they both knew I loved them no matter what dumb ass crap they did. Cause I knew they were gonna do it....and told them that. I told them my experiences with said things and let them make their own choices.....and deal with whatever consequences came of it.

 

[wildgypsy70]

I agree. But the fact is.. that green stuff does keep the drinking dreams away; it never fails, when I've tried to quit that too, either I can't fall asleep AT ALL, or I have drinking dreams. So I'm with Willie Nelson: the green stuff isn't gonna hurt me, but the drinking nearly killed me.

And besides all that... even if "gateways" do exist... one does have freewill and agency, and can choose not to walk thru them. For all my problems with drugs and alcohol... I've never tried that street narcotic that's so prevalent wtih rockstars, because I chose not to.

I also chose to walk thru the one labelled "to continued life, and good health," and leave behind the one labelled "dying of liver failure." Choice and agency.

Andria

Choice.....they’re definitely trying to take that away. For our own good. Ha.

 

[JuicyLucy]

In the modern world with shit like school shootings and a rise in teen suicide, etc, worrying about kids vaping shows a very warped sense of priorities

 

[SMOKIE]

At 12 years old my father sent me to the store to buy 2 packs of cigarettes for him then go to the bar, and buy a container of beer on tap also.

Did I smoke any of those cigarettes or have a sip of his beer, NO!

My father would of gave me a whooping.

Point is parents need to be parents not the government.

Dad worked full time, mom worked part time so she could be there for us when out from school, and during the summer I was sent to camp for the day..

Don't have kids if you can not raise them or be there for them. This society is getting worst as each year passes.

Everyone is offended, people protest for the littlest thing, no one is personably social anymore, cant even ring your door bell with a unexpected visit,

Watch this video you will laugh but it is true how it was back in the day before the internet.

 

[The Cromwell]

The funny part is, IMO, it’s not about the flavors for teens at all....it’s about the buzz. Like @zeeter just said.....we all drank crappy alcohol and smoked cigs for what? The buzz. We didn’t care how it tasted. We didn’t care if it was the crappiest vodka in plastic jugs....am I gonna get drunk? Hell, ya! Drink away!

They’re gonna Juul even if Mango and Creme Brulee are taken away. Sure, they taste better than tobacco/menthol, but if the buzz is there.....they’re gonna do it.

Yep I expect nic strength over say 20 mg/ml to be banned as in the EU.
Porblem with kids is not the Juul it is the nic salts at 45? mg in there.

 

[The Cromwell]

Point is parents need to be parents not the government.

True but for the most part not gonna happen. Piss poor parenting and then blame everyone else but themselves.

 

[zeeter]

This is a good discussion and many of you have made valid points. I

At 12 years old my father sent me to the store to buy 2 packs of cigarettes for him then go to the bar, and buy a container of beer on tap also.

Did I smoke any of those cigarettes or have a sip of his beer, NO!

My father would of gave me a whooping.

Point is parents need to be parents not the government.

Dad worked full time, mom worked part time so she could be there for us when out from school, and during the summer I was sent to camp for the day..

Don't have kids if you can not raise them or be there for them. This society is getting worst as each year passes.

Everyone is offended, people protest for the littlest thing, no one is personably social anymore, cant even ring your door bell with a unexpected visit,

Watch this video you will laugh but it is true how it was back in the day before the internet.

I used to go to the store for cigarettes for my mom every day. It was always a good day when I needed to because cigarettes were 65 cents a pack and I could keep the 35 cents to buy candy, which was 10 cents for a thing of Mike & Ikes or whatever.

Speaking of which, if they made a Mike & Ike flavored e-liquid I'd be all over it! Or cheez-its, for that matter. Or steak. Maybe I should eat dinner now.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Yep I expect nic strength over say 20 mg/ml to be banned as in the EU.
Porblem with kids is not the Juul it is the nic salts at 45? mg in there.

Yeah, that’s definitely high. BUT.....the Juul was made for adults trying to quit smoking. I got lucky and quit with 6mg but there are a LOT of people that had to go way higher. The Juul probably would have been great for them. And probably is good for adults now. What they need to do is make pods with varying strengths so that people can wean off.....isn’t that the point? To wean off? Or at least down to a comfortable level.

 

[wildgypsy70]

In the modern world with shit like school shootings and a rise in teen suicide, etc, worrying about kids vaping shows a very warped sense of priorities

Definitely agree. Time will come when they say vaping made them do it.

 

[zeeter]

Yeah, that’s definitely high. BUT.....the Juul was made for adults trying to quit smoking. I got lucky and quit with 6mg but there are a LOT of people that had to go way higher. The Juul probably would have been great for them. And probably is good for adults now. What they need to do is make pods with varying strengths so that people can wean off.....isn’t that the point? To wean off? Or at least down to a comfortable level.

Doesn't a regular cigarette have the equivalent of 18mg/ml of ejuice? People are using between 20 and 45?

 

[wildgypsy70]

Doesn't a regular cigarette have the equivalent of 18mg/ml of ejuice? People are using between 20 and 45?

Yup. A juul pod has 50mg in it and it’s supposed to be the equivalent of a pack of smokes....if memory serves.

 

[zeeter]

I'm not familiar with juul so maybe that's a different animal.

 

[wildgypsy70]

I'm not familiar with juul so maybe that's a different animal.

Juul’s the one that everyone’s up in arms about. They’re stealthy....and have a very high nic salt content. Easy to hide, super low clouds.....parents have no idea their kids are using it.

 

[SteveS45]

Juul’s the one that everyone’s up in arms about.

New
I'm not familiar with juul so maybe that's a different animal.

He is not up on a lot of things like the current flavor bans and the States that are trying to implement them. While most of us are trying to STOP Flavor Bans it appears he wants to start one in his State??? IMO some people should NOT vape.................

 

[The Cromwell]

BUT.....the Juul was made for adults trying to quit smoking.

Was it really?
I have no idea of Juuls long range marketing plan of a year or so ago?
I can see what has happened as a possibility though.
As with any business. Juul's are made to be sold.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Was it really?
I have no idea of Juuls long range marketing plan of a year or so ago?

As with any business. Juul's are made to be sold.

Hmmmm....good point. I do not know. It would be pretty sick to have some hidden agenda, but not surprising. I truly hope not.

 

[The Cromwell]

Hmmmm....good point. I do not know. It would be pretty sick to have some hidden agenda, but not surprising. I truly hope not.

Most all businesses have a 'hidden agenda' where marketing is concerned.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Most all businesses have a 'hidden agenda' where marketing is concerned.

True. Sickens me.....ugh.

 

[stanglifemike]

Exactly! I was 17 when I started smoking and I did it out of curiosity despite growing up in a smoke free household. My parents preached to me about the dangers of smoking and it didn't stop me from trying it. Curiosity is a part of growing up and the best thing parents can do is raise them as best they can in hopes their children make the right choices as they become adults.

Same here. My Parents don't smoke or drink and taught me all about the dangers, but at 16 I tried my first cigarette. In high school, it seemed like a lot of kids did the opposite of their Parents. Most of my friends who smoked grew up in smoke free homes, and my friends who didn't smoke grew up with parents who did.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Droogbc]

My position removes that argument from big tobacco and big pharma. If there's no candy flavors then the kids might be less likely to try it.

Cigarettes taste like burning dogshit, and it never seemed to slow anyone down.

It's already illegal to sell or provide vaping stuff to kids, so instead of regulating away the freedoms of adults, instead enforce the existing laws... And if parents tried actually parenting instead of expecting the government to nerf the world to keep their children from being children, that would be just great too.

 

[stanglifemike]

And if parents tried actually parenting instead of expecting the government to nerf the world to keep their children from being children, that would be just great too.

Exactly! Most Parents today act like it's every else's responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong. And it's unfortunate most Parents think spanking is cruel and their kids will resent them. My Parents spanked and it helped straighten me out. Not only do I love them, I think they're the greatest people on earth.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Time]

We're all adults here. Should we be rejecting these flavors in order to 1) prevent kids from vaping and 2) eliminate this argument from the anti-vaping community's arsenal?

No.