Do we have a responsibility?

[Papachaz]

Yup. A juul pod has 50mg in it and it’s supposed to be the equivalent of a pack of smokes....if memory serves.

The juul is 5% nicotine. Whatever mg that works out to be. They actually have the highest percentage off any pod system. I read an article about juul where they were talking about reducing the percentage to 2.4%. All because of the crap they are getting from the “concerned” parents and government about teens getting nicotine overdose from such a high percentage. Bunch of idiots flapping their gums about something they have no clue on is what it is.


Carpe Nidor

 

[jwill]

Exactly! Most Parents today act like it's every else's responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong. And it's unfortunate most Parents think spanking is cruel and their kids will resent them. My Parents spanked and it helped straighten me out. Not only do I love them, I think they're the greatest people on earth.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

My dad would send a note to our school on the first day giving them blanket authority to beat me how they see fit. No phone call needed. All he asked was for a note to be sent home with the reason so he could whip me again. Consequences.

 

[Grandpa]

Lots of good stuff here, but it's mostly personal feelings about various substances. What the hell, I'll add to the drivel.

I'm 64 3/4 years old. Started drinkin', druggin', and smokin' when I was 14. I was in a man's world at the time and I did what the men around me were doing and I didn't give a fuck what anyone thought. I was also 10' tall and bullet proof then, just like most 14 year olds are. And I did it all then the way I wanted to. I thought I was a tough kid so I smoked straight Camels or Pall Malls like my dad, drank whiskey out of the bottle, and beer that was sunk in the cow tank which meant is was only less warm than fresh piss. I was growing very potent as a teenager that would knock any man's dick in the dirt. I tried and frequently used every drug known to man that it was possible to use in a profane manner. It was the world I lived in. Part of me still lives in that world. I don't know jack shit about flavors because I don't use them. I mix my own juice and I take it straight w/ vg.

My weakness was ANYTHING that would make me feel good, or I THOUGHT would make me feel good, I became totally addicted to. Some of it caught up with me fairly quickly. I sobered up at 26 and I have been clean and sober for 38 years. With tobacco, I swapped out the Camels and Pall Malls for filtered cowboy killers (Marlboros) when I was 34 or 35. My smoke of choice for the last 10 years of smoking was American Spirits. I finely gave up the smokes at age 61 when my health collapsed. But I'm a true addict, so to stay off the smokes, I started vaping. Problem solved and it may have been the only way I could pull off not smoking. I vape 10 mg nic in all vg because pg makes my throat itch.

The whole point of this confession is that all the stuff I did, I did it because I thought it was cool, or made me feel alive on some cutting edge, or made me an equal of my peers, or was looked down on by many people, frightened the hell out of a lot of others, or I liked the danger, or just plain made me feel good. Most of all, I liked the image of being a rebel. In the moment there was no down side. Girls liked tough guys who looked good and smoked, drank, and did drugs. Well, at least some did.

Now, I don't know what is going to rope a kid in these days. I suspect it's the same old things with maybe a few new ones thrown in. Availability of flavored juice is academic - if some kid finds it seductive, they will get their hands on it. An attractive nuisance you might say - I know a guy who built a swimming pool out back but ended up filling it in because he couldn't keep the local kids out of it in the middle of the night.

So I don't think trying to control it will have any effect; only make it more attractive. As for gateways; anything is a gateway to someone like me. I think I was addicted to nicotine long before my first cigarette from having a chain smoking dad in the house.

Also, I dislike laws that restricts the free movement of people or goods. Restrictive laws have made many criminals out of honest regular folks. But hell, I would let anyone have machine guns. That's just me.

The one thing I do advise to everyone. Don't ever get too sanctimonious or judgmental about these issues. Is vaping safe and/or good for you? I think it IS safer and it does LESS harm than smoking, but I don't buy for a minute that it is perfectly safe. It has been my personal experience that anything and everything I like to do is gonna end up being bad for me. For every person beating on the table and railing about the injustice of it all, remember there is someone else who is equally convinced that vaping is an instrument of the devil and should be banned - just like they have tried to ban alcohol and drugs at various times. And we know how THAT has worked out...

 

[stanglifemike]

Well said @Grandpa!!! Sounds a lot like me

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

The juul is 5% nicotine. Whatever mg that works out to be. They actually have the highest percentage off any pod system. I read an article about juul where they were talking about reducing the percentage to 2.4%. All because of the crap they are getting from the “concerned” parents and government about teens getting nicotine overdose from such a high percentage. Bunch of idiots flapping their gums about something they have no clue on is what it is.


Carpe Nidor

That is 50 mg/ml.

 

[Droogbc]

That is 50 mg/ml.

Perfect for M2L setups, for some users. Chain vaping not necessary, nor advisable. Users self regulate their intake, no problem.

 

[The Cromwell]

Perfect for M2L setups, for some users. Chain vaping not necessary, nor advisable. Users self regulate their intake, no problem.

Yep for reasonable folks that works.
Also makes em easy to abuse somewhat.

 

[Ralph_K]

I think parents have responsibility to their kids. Not me!

 

[Time]

Yep for reasonable folks that works.
Also makes em easy to abuse somewhat.

LOL.

Easy to abuse?

How in the fuck do you abuse nicotine?

Come on guys, let's vape till we puke!

 

[Droogbc]

Yep for reasonable folks that works.
Also makes em easy to abuse somewhat.

Works well imho. Not sure if you've given salts at higher strengths a try, but if you start to overindulge I find that your body begins to let you know you're overdoing it rather quickly. If I happen to forget myself and go overboard, nausea starts to creep up on me in short order. Not something I would want to do intentionally.

 

[Ralph_K]

This is my personal opinion and feel free to respectfully disagree. I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that *** can lead to stronger drugs. That most people who are on he*oin used *** as their first drug. I would also go on to say that vaping is similar but not the same as smoking. While most of us used vaping to get off of cigarettes, perhaps some kids would use it as a gateway to smoking because they might feel it is the next level of rebellion and coolness.

If anything alcohol is the gateway to smoking and drug use. Tried banning that didn't turn out too well unless you consider your own government murdering 1000s of people good. Quit looking for government to fix thing for you it only turns out worst

 

[AndriaD]

Works well imho. Not sure if you've given salts at higher strengths a try, but if you start to overindulge I find that your body begins to let you know you're overdoing it rather quickly. If I happen to forget myself and go overboard, nausea starts to creep up on me in short order. Not something I would want to do intentionally.

Shit, I got UNGODLY HORRIBLE nausea at 18mg, and also at 12mg thought it took longer than the 18mg did. The 18mg was what the stupid fuckers at the vape store recommended since I'd been smoking for nearly 40 yrs -- they didn't bother discovering that I'd been smoking ULTRA-LIGHTS for the last 20. It nearly cured me of the entire vaping idea completely. Fortunately I persevered and got some 6mg. And yeah I used a cigalike then, an eRoll. And quit smoking after using that for about 3 wks. People that say that you can't quit using a cigalike, or using 6mg, just don't fucking WANT TO. I'd tried 4 times before to quit, and was a miserable failure at quitting... till I started vaping.

Andria

 

[Droogbc]

Shit, I got UNGODLY HORRIBLE nausea at 18mg, and also at 12mg thought it took longer than the 18mg did. The 18mg was what the stupid fuckers at the vape store recommended since I'd been smoking for nearly 40 yrs -- they didn't bother discovering that I'd been smoking ULTRA-LIGHTS for the last 20. It nearly cured me of the entire vaping idea completely. Fortunately I persevered and got some 6mg. And yeah I used a cigalike then, an eRoll. And quit smoking after using that for about 3 wks. People that say that you can't quit using a cigalike, or using 6mg, just don't fucking WANT TO. I'd tried 4 times before to quit, and was a miserable failure at quitting... till I started vaping.

Andria

Truth, though for a heavier smoker the stronger salts can be the difference between having a puff or two and being satisfied, or chaining an 18650 to death. Personally, it wasn't until I discovered salts that I was able to comfortably go from chaining a 3x18650 DL setup at 3 or 6 mgl all day, to a nice little single 18650 MTL jobber that I just puff on periodically. Then again, I chain smoked 2 packs a day of full strength menthols.

I didn't much mind leaving the house in the morning with a 3 cell mod, 3 extra cells, and a bottle of juice... But being able to go out for the day with just a single battery mod and one little tank full of juice and knowing I'm not going to run dry on juice or power is a nice change of pace. Juice and battery anxiety is a thing, believe you me, and it's nice to not have to worry as much.

 

[SteveS45]

I quit using Cig-A-Likes and 24-36MG liquid to refill the Cartridges. Had to add a 4 Port USB charging adapter to my vehicles accessory power port so I could have a charged battery all the time. Only got Nic Sick a few times when I first quit Cold Turkey and one Nicotine OD Headache is enough to make you learn real fast. Only good part is that doesn't last long for me.

 

[The Cromwell]

Works well imho. Not sure if you've given salts at higher strengths a try, but if you start to overindulge I find that your body begins to let you know you're overdoing it rather quickly. If I happen to forget myself and go overboard, nausea starts to creep up on me in short order. Not something I would want to do intentionally.

As I said works for reasonable folks.
Many/most kids are not very reasonable.

 

[Droogbc]

As I said works for reasonable folks.
Many/most kids are not very reasonable.

Some kids will abuse a can of air freshener given half a chance. Salt vs freebase pretty much comes down a smoother and more palatable inhale vs a harsher experience, and again, go too high and you want to vomit. No fun to me, but you're right, kids can be the kind of idgits who choke themselves into unconsciousness just to catch a buzz so who knows what they might be up to when not under a watchful eye.

That said though, they could regulate the pods and commercial juice to zero nic. It wouldn't matter. Kids have internet access, can buy prepaid credit cards, order whatever and diy to their hearts content just like the rest of us. Except they'll probably be dumb and may try to push the envelope, like they tend to do with everything else.

Can't regulate away stupidity, unfortunately.

 

[The Cromwell]

Can't regulate away stupidity, unfortunately.

Nope but one can restrict what is available for the stupid to misuse.
And fewer will misuse something if it is more difficult to get or make. Lazy kinda goes along with stupid.
Unfortunately restricting access to things for the stupid usually causes issues with the non stupid.

And on a side note, I do expect restrictions on nicotine in the future. Unfortunately.
Why I have enough for the rest of my life stocked in the freezer.

 

[Droogbc]

This is true, but never underestimate just how far kids will go out of their way to get into stuff they shouldn't be messing with. They have a lot of free time on their hands.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if stricter legislation was eventually incoming, though I personally disagree with it strongly. Not that I want to ever see anyone mess themselves up, intentional or otherwise, but governmentally regulating away natural selection hasn't done much in our favor if I'm brutally honest.

 

[AndriaD]

Truth, though for a heavier smoker the stronger salts can be the difference between having a puff or two and being satisfied, or chaining an 18650 to death. Personally, it wasn't until I discovered salts that I was able to comfortably go from chaining a 3x18650 DL setup at 3 or 6 mgl all day, to a nice little single 18650 MTL jobber that I just puff on periodically. Then again, I chain smoked 2 packs a day of full strength menthols.

I didn't much mind leaving the house in the morning with a 3 cell mod, 3 extra cells, and a bottle of juice... But being able to go out for the day with just a single battery mod and one little tank full of juice and knowing I'm not going to run dry on juice or power is a nice change of pace. Juice and battery anxiety is a thing, believe you me, and it's nice to not have to worry as much.

Yeah, I get that; back when I was playing around with cartos, it was great to discover cartoTANKS, so I could take 4 or 5 ml with me, instead of a measly 1ml. Also why I moved entirely to removable-battery and then box mods after the vv3 -- the vv3 beat hell out of the eRoll for battery life, but still only 800mAh -- my first actual "mod" was a Sigelei Zmax flat-top and Efest 2250mAh batteries -- then an Eleaf, one of their earliest 30w mods which was 2000mAh I think. Now I use 30Q's because 3000mAh lasts me nearly 3 days (unless I'm using my Aegis! ARGH!), but I figured out a couple years ago that my Achilles held enough for nearly half a day, at 2.5ml.

I think the main thing is that those who smoke cigarettes that don't have much nicotine may have an addiction to smoking, but the nicotine isn't the biggest part of the addiction.... it's the constantly-repeated behavior, first and foremost, and then there's those fucking MAOIs -- and those things will sink even the most determined quitter, since cold-turkey withdrawal from those isn't completely unlike cold-turkey withdrawal from SSRIs.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

Nope but one can restrict what is available for the stupid to misuse.
And fewer will misuse something if it is more difficult to get or make. Lazy kinda goes along with stupid.
Unfortunately restricting access to things for the stupid usually causes issues with the non stupid.

IMO, it be better to let Darwin dump a little chlorine into the gene pool on from time to time.

And on a side note, I do expect restrictions on nicotine in the future. Unfortunately.
Why I have enough for the rest of my life stocked in the freezer.

Yep.

 

[Time]

IMO, it be better to let Darwin dump a little chlorine into the gene pool on from time to time.

You don't even need Darwin to intervene for so called 'nicotine abuse'.

This is what happens when kids "abuse" nicotine.

 

[Rossum]

I think the main thing is that those who smoke cigarettes that don't have much nicotine may have an addiction to smoking, but the nicotine isn't the biggest part of the addiction.... it's the constantly-repeated behavior, first and foremost, and then there's those fucking MAOIs -- and those things will sink even the most determined quitter, since cold-turkey withdrawal from those isn't completely unlike cold-turkey withdrawal from SSRIs.

The thing about those MAOIs is it seems to me that they have a much longer half-life in the body than nicotine does. I believe this is why a period of dual-use and tapering off the number of cigarettes smoked over time works for a lot of people. When I was smoking 40-45 a day (also ultra-lights), if I didn't have a smoke for an hour I'd get pretty cranky, and after two, well that was basically insufferable. Hitting the vape would fix that for a while, but not indefinitely. Eventually, I'd want a cigarette anyway, but the urge got less compelling the less I smoked.

I don't remember exactly what day my first WTA juice showed up. I think it was a few days after I put down the cigs entirely. It did a lot to kill the remaining "I really want a cigarette now" urges. I didn't mix it into my main juice, I just filled one device with it and hit that device when I really needed to. I still keep some around, and I'll often go a week or two without it, but then I get the feeling that something isn't quite right, that something is missing, and dripping a few drops fixes me right up.

 

[obijuan77]

This is a good discussion and many of you have made valid points. I


I used to go to the store for cigarettes for my mom every day. It was always a good day when I needed to because cigarettes were 65 cents a pack and I could keep the 35 cents to buy candy, which was 10 cents for a thing of Mike & Ikes or whatever.

Speaking of which, if they made a Mike & Ike flavored e-liquid I'd be all over it! Or cheez-its, for that matter. Or steak. Maybe I should eat dinner now.

Wait a second.....The OP, who thinks flavor bans might be a good idea, says this?!^^^^

Hypocrite much? Am I the only one that saw this??

 

[SteveS45]

Wait a second.....The OP, who thinks flavor bans might be a good idea, says this?!^^^^
Hypocrite much? Am I the only one that saw this??

Nope I don't think you are alone~! He never responded to any of the posts about the current flavor bans or those of us who are ADVOCATING to STOP the Flavor bans.

 

[Letitia9]

In my opinion, it doesn't send the wrong message. Candy isn't made solely for kids, and there are plenty of people in their 90s who like candy. Now if the flavor was a popular kids cartoon character, then I would agree that kids are the intended targets.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Adults like cartoons too. Endless discussion with no end result. I did not suffer childhood restrictions to be even more regulated in adulthood. Monitor your own kids and leave me out of it period is my stance, I've already paid my dues.

 

[zeeter]

Wait a second.....The OP, who thinks flavor bans might be a good idea, says this?!^^^^

Hypocrite much? Am I the only one that saw this??

Dude...it was a joke.

 

[obijuan77]

Dude...it was a joke.

Not a very good one then.....

Oh, you meant this whole thread is a joke? ok got it then

 

[Droogbc]

Dude...it was a joke.

If you would be so kind as to keep your thoughts on vape regulations limited to your internal monologue, I think many of us would appreciate it. I don't mean for that to come off as assholeish, and you are certainly entitled to your own thoughts and opinions of course, but I would hate to think it was "one of us" that helped force what most here would probably consider to be harmful and needless regulation down our gullets.

Respectfully.

You do you though. I'm the last person who wants to censor others. Little self moderation on the other hand, sometimes a good thing.

 

[zeeter]

If you would be so kind as to keep your thoughts on vape regulations limited to your internal monologue, I think many of us would appreciate it. I don't mean for that to come off as assholeish, and you are certainly entitled to your own thoughts and opinions of course, but I would hate to think it was "one of us" that helped force what most here would probably consider to be harmful and needless regulation down our gullets.

Respectfully.

You do you though. I'm the last person who wants to censor others. Little self moderation on the other hand, sometimes a good thing.

You know what? I'm going to say whatever I want to say on here so long as it abides by the community standards. If you want to be an internet bully then go pick another victim because you're wasting your time on me. Telling me to keep my thoughts to myself and then saying you don't mean to sound assholeish? Too late. You already did.

 

[zeeter]

Not a very good one then.....

Oh, you meant this whole thread is a joke? ok got it then

I'm not sure if you read the entire list of comments. After my initial post the member here, the ones who were respectful and open to dialog, managed to convince me that my position was wrong. Everything after that was chatter. A joke - yes, irony based on my original posting.

Seriously, what are you so upset about?

And what's with all the internet bullies today?

 

[obijuan77]

Internet bullies?

Just because the majority disagreed with your OP doesn't make us 'bullies'. As several ppl pointed out, you seem to be hypersensitive.

Maybe some of us got mad at some of your ridiculous 'opinions' like:

1. "Should we be rejecting these flavors?" - Nope, you don't like em, then don't vape them, but you don't get to tell me what to vape.

2. "I mean cigarettes came in two flavors - menthol and regular unless you want to throw in clove, which only people who wanted to be annoying smoked" - again, another one of your 'opinions' that maybe should have kept to yourself

3. "Sure - PG causes popcorn lung" - Nope, wrong again, but others have pointed that out already

4. "I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that pot can lead to stronger drugs." - yet, another OPINION of yours that has no facts to support it.

Those are just a few of your opinions that, maybe, some dont appreciate?

In MY OPINION you sound like a grumpy old man trying to 'lecture' with outdated ideals.

 

[r055co]

As I pointed out earlier, you're being waaaaaaaay too sensitive.

 

[Droogbc]

You know what? I'm going to say whatever I want to say on here so long as it abides by the community standards. If you want to be an internet bully then go pick another victim because you're wasting your time on me. Telling me to keep my thoughts to myself and then saying you don't mean to sound assholeish? Too late. You already did.

Well, if you'd like to take it that route, go fist your own asshole. I'm thinking of the community as a whole, you're thinking with a head full of shit. It's obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes that the things which wander through your feeble little mind are fodder for our enemies, and I resent the fuck out of you for spewing that kind of bullshit in the name of our supposed "responsibility"

If people changed your mind earlier, great. Tell them they're gonna need to pick up more Huggies though kiddo, because I suspect that shit is just going to continue leaking out of your bobble.

 

[Time]

I'm not sure if you read the entire list of comments. After my initial post the member here, the ones who were respectful and open to dialog, managed to convince me that my position was wrong. Everything after that was chatter. A joke - yes, irony based on my original posting.

Seriously, what are you so upset about?

And what's with all the internet bullies today?

I think we've lost enough personal freedoms in the name of "for the greater good" or "for your own good" while being cordial about it that we've come to the conclusion that expressing serious displeasure and animosity towards such ideas is preferable to being cordial and losing more.

When we were cordial, we politely lost. I think people are fed up with being cordial and losing our personal freedoms. Those that would take away from us, didn't seem to get the hint when we were nice about it.

 

[r055co]

I think we've lost enough personal freedoms in the name of "for the greater good" or "for your own good" while being cordial about it that we've come to the conclusion that expressing serious displeasure and animosity towards such ideas is preferable to being cordial and losing more.

When we were cordial, we politely lost. I think people are fed up with being cordial and losing our personal freedoms. Those that would take away from us, didn't seem to get the hint when we were nice about it.

Yep, "for the Children" is code for "bend over and grab your ankles".

 

[zeeter]

Internet bullies?

Just because the majority disagreed with your OP doesn't make us 'bullies'. As several ppl pointed out, you seem to be hypersensitive.

Maybe some of us got mad at some of your ridiculous 'opinions' like:

1. "Should we be rejecting these flavors?" - Nope, you don't like em, then don't vape them, but you don't get to tell me what to vape.

2. "I mean cigarettes came in two flavors - menthol and regular unless you want to throw in clove, which only people who wanted to be annoying smoked" - again, another one of your 'opinions' that maybe should have kept to yourself

3. "Sure - PG causes popcorn lung" - Nope, wrong again, but others have pointed that out already

4. "I am a true believer in gateways. I believe that pot can lead to stronger drugs." - yet, another OPINION of yours that has no facts to support it.

Those are just a few of your opinions that, maybe, some dont appreciate?

In MY OPINION you sound like a grumpy old man trying to 'lecture' with outdated ideals.

1. The topic of this conversation. It had nothing to do if I like them or not. It had to do with the prospect of attracting kids.
2. Are there more mainstream cigarette flavors than regular or menthol?
3. You know who pointed out that I was wrong about PG causing popcorn lung? Me, about two posts later. And furthermore, I never said it caused it. I was mocking those who DID say it caused it as clearly stated in my post. You want to gig me for saying PG rather than diacetyl? Go right ahead.
4. It's a discussion board, not a dissertation. Opinions are welcome from all. In fact, almost everything in a discussion forum is an opinion. There is plenty of evidence for and against my position on that subject. I tend to agree with the data for it.

Why would you get mad at someone else's opinion? You don't agree so you get mad about it? I was not being disrespectful. I opened up a topic of conversation and stated my position on it. This is what happens on discussion forums. Did I lecture? No. I asked for people's opinions. In fact the title itself is a question. Through polite dialog many on here convinced me that my position was wrong, or at the very least unfounded.

When I talk about bullies I'm talking about people like you who miss the point of a conversation and nitpick little things like a joke made later or the fact that in my haste I named the wrong chemical.

 

[SteveS45]

Joke? Yeah I can say he sure the fuck he is a joke..........................

 

[zeeter]

As I pointed out earlier, you're being waaaaaaaay too sensitive.

Someone says to keep my opinions to myself and I'm being too sensitive?

 

[Droogbc]

Somebody jiggle the handle. The shitter is still running.

 

[SteveS45]

Next irrelevant thread:

How to stop Internet bullying......................

 

[obijuan77]

Really? You corrected yourself?!




I think that honor belongs to: r055co

BTW aren't you too old to be trolling?

 

[zeeter]

Really? You corrected yourself?!


View attachment 117756

I think that honor belongs to: r055co

BTW aren't you too old to be trolling?

Look two or three posts down from there. In fact I knew right after I posted it but didn't find it important enough to correct myself right away. Had I realized that someone would come in and factcheck what was a moot point and one that mocked the very notion of vaping causing popcorn lung I would have done so sooner.

 

[obijuan77]

Look two or three posts down from there. In fact I knew right after I posted it but didn't find it important enough to correct myself right away.

Seems to be your problem right here...

 

[SteveS45]

Seems to be your problem right here...

Posting wrong information isn't important to him? Damn

I am surprised he hasn't ignored many of you like his butt buddy recommends all the time.

 

[zeeter]

Seems to be your problem right here...

Had I known that someone would come by and nitpick (troll) my post and follow-up comments then perhaps I would have immediately corrected myself. You're right.

Hey - I misspoke/typed and didn't correct myself soon enough. I think your life will go on.

 

[Droogbc]

Coming into a vape forum and suggesting the banning of flavors is tantamount to trolling there, braintrust. Not surprised you don't recognize it as such however. Not. At. All.

 

[SteveS45]

Some people really belong on ECF and not here. The Returded1 would have field day.

 

[St.Roostifer]

I think zeeter deserves some credit for admitting he has changed his stance on flavor bans. Shows he has an open mind.

 

[SteveS45]

I think zeeter deserves some credit for admitting he has changed his stance on flavor bans. Shows he has an open mind.

I think the only reason he decided to change his stance was because he was gang raped in the ass by multitudes of people. Also do not forget he said the whole post was just a joke. No credit coming from this direction because IMO it is just trying to cover his ass after looking really stupid.

 

[Rossum]