Does it get any better?

[Rothom]

I've done a number of different builds over the past year or so from regular round wire, a variety of twisted wire coils, claptons, fused claptons, staggered fused claptons, aliens, and even some of Rip Tripper's specials and always seem to come back to fused claptons. My go to build and what all others are measured against is 2x28g/36g KA1, 2mm ID, 6 wraps that come out to between .26 - .30 ohms. On tube mech mods it has a fairly quick ramp up time and on regulated box mods do well at 60w for me. As far as performance goes this build gives me great clouds and flavor, is a nice vape, and I can crank out a set in minutes.
What I'm looking for are suggestions on what others find to be their go to builds or ideas on what I could try in my never ending quest for the perfect vape that has a good balance of flavor and clouds.....
My only real limitation is that I don't go below .25 ohms. Any ideas?

 

[nightshard]

I get where you're coming from when saying you prefer fused Claptons.
On one hand they are complex enough to have good surface area to mass ratio and internal area to hold juice, or the other hand they are relatively easy to make.
I'm all about practical building, that's why I also like 36 for the wrap as it a great compromise between building comfort and performance.
I do prefer 26 for the cores (sometimes use 24 and rarely ever use 28 anymore).

I did recently start making twisted Claptons (by twisted Claptons I mean 2 or more single core Claptons twisted together) and was really surprised at how well they preform considering how easy they are to make.

Doing really complex builds like staple staggered fused, etc.. is not something I'm willing to do on a regular basis and is not worth the effort IMO.

To optimize the performance of your coils you should consider changing the mass of the coil and it's ID to fit the chamber size of the atty you are using and then change the wattage accordingly (for regulated) and don't be afraid to raise the wattage a lot for a much bigger coil.

 

[Rothom]

I appreciate you understanding where I'm trying to go with my question and you're right on the money. I tend to gravitate towards smaller cores to reduce ramp up time on a single 18650 mech. I'll try a build with a larger mass for my regulated box. 26g twisted claptons sound interesting


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[nightshard]

Ramp up time is a big consideration with mechs, my advice is more for regulated devices where it's easier to raise wattage to compensate for higher mass.
Obviously you are going to get lower resistance and higher wattage with 26 cores with a mech but it's harder to fine tune.

With twisted Claptons it's all about the amount of twist.
Twisting too much will damage the individual Clapton strand wrap and twisting too little will make the twist unravel when you coil, so it's about twisting just right.
Don't know what atty we're talking about and what's your size constraints but know that a twisted Clapton will be bigger in size then a fused Clapton using the same wrap and core wires and will also be round and not flat.

Here is one of mine, a 3 strand 36N80/26K 4ID

 

[KingPin!]

Ramp up time is a big consideration with mechs, my advice is more for regulated devices where it's easier to raise wattage to compensate for higher mass.
Obviously you are going to get lower resistance and higher wattage with 26 cores with a mech but it's harder to fine tune.

With twisted Claptons it's all about the amount of twist.
Twisting too much will damage the individual Clapton strand wrap and twisting too little will make the twist unravel when you coil, so it's about twisting just right.
Don't know what atty we're talking about and what's your size constraints but know that a twisted Clapton will be bigger in size then a fused Clapton using the same wrap and core wires and will also be round and not flat.

Haven't tried twisting a clapton yet nightshard sounds interesting though what would you deem as the right amount of twist?

I've done a number of different builds over the past year or so from regular round wire, a variety of twisted wire coils, claptons, fused claptons, staggered fused claptons, aliens, and even some of Rip Tripper's specials and always seem to come back to fused claptons. My go to build and what all others are measured against is 2x28g/36g KA1, 2mm ID, 6 wraps that come out to between .26 - .30 ohms. On tube mech mods it has a fairly quick ramp up time and on regulated box mods do well at 60w for me. As far as performance goes this build gives me great clouds and flavor, is a nice vape, and I can crank out a set in minutes.
What I'm looking for are suggestions on what others find to be their go to builds or ideas on what I could try in my never ending quest for the perfect vape that has a good balance of flavor and clouds.....
My only real limitation is that I don't go below .25 ohms. Any ideas?

Haven't tried as many builds as you but i do think a decent fused clapton with thinner gauge wrap is awesome for the work required, the others in my opinion provide diminished returns for the effort required, as such I see them as hobby builds rather than my go to all day vape builds they might be better at wicking and flavour production but not miles better

 

[nightshard]

Haven't tried twisting a clapton yet nightshard sounds interesting though what would you deem as the right amount of twist?

Hard to explain exactly, it's better to try it to get the feel of it.
Comparing it to regular twisted coils is when you can still clearly see the individual strands in the coil and before they unify into one.

 

[Brad Mitchell]

I have been really liking 2x28k/36k fused and a 24k staged coil. Granted it's coming out at .18 ohm but I like it.

 

[skt239]

I get clapton wire from advanced vape supply and normally do 5-6 wraps.

@nightshard is that the Hadaly?

 

[nightshard]

is that the Hadaly?

Nope a Pharaoh.

 

[Rothom]

You're right about the diminished returns KingPin! I saw little increase compared to effort in many of them. Fused claptons vs. aliens are a good example of a lot more effort for a subjectively minor increase in vapor/flavor.
nightshard, I'll be putting this build in a Goon so there's plenty of space. Nice, tight claptons by the way! I can see where a 'soft' twist would be best. I'll try it tomorrow morning.
Brad, I haven't played around with staged coils much. I'm thinking I'd have to go with a lower wire to match the diameter of the clapton to insure good contact when mounting.


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[KingPin!]

You're right about the diminished returns KingPin! I saw little increase compared to effort in many of them. Fused claptons vs. aliens are a good example of a lot more effort for a subjectively minor increase in vapor/flavor.
nightshard, I'll be putting this build in a Goon so there's plenty of space. Nice, tight claptons by the way! I can see where a 'soft' twist would be best. I'll try it tomorrow morning.
Brad, I haven't played around with staged coils much. I'm thinking I'd have to go with a lower wire to match the diameter of the clapton to insure good contact when mounting.


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Same with aliens for me it's a smoother vape but flavour isn't stellar compared to fused and I'm not noticing any difference in wicking capability between the two whatsoever think it more to do with how you use the cotton

 

[nightshard]

Finally people that agree the an alien is not worth the effort.
It's hard saying something bad about the alien since it's so popular (even though a lot of the premade aliens that are sold are not really aliens).

 

[Brad Mitchell]

You're right about the diminished returns KingPin! I saw little increase compared to effort in many of them. Fused claptons vs. aliens are a good example of a lot more effort for a subjectively minor increase in vapor/flavor.
nightshard, I'll be putting this build in a Goon so there's plenty of space. Nice, tight claptons by the way! I can see where a 'soft' twist would be best. I'll try it tomorrow morning.
Brad, I haven't played around with staged coils much. I'm thinking I'd have to go with a lower wire to match the diameter of the clapton to insure good contact when mounting.


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Well I did a staged coil with 28k. The 28 heated up way too fast which cause poor performance. The 24 is slower and still helps heat the clapton.

 

[r055co]

My go to is around 30gx2/38g SS fused Clapton. What I really like about SS is how responsive it is plus with a lower resistance you need to use smaller gauge wire. This makes it perfect for Mech's IMO and then the flavor IMO is crisper and cleaner with SS.

 

[Rothom]

There are those that have turned coil building into nothing short of an art form and I appreciate what these folks do as many of the builds produced are absolutely amazing however, I lack the patience, time, and skill to recreate some of these builds. So I'm relegated to building coils simply for performance and that's what I look for. Alien coils are a perfect example of this in my opinion. They look very cool, are popular, but lack a return on the added investment of time and effort to make.


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[mach1ne]

i found myself saying this in a number of different topics lately. fused claptons are the best balance of performance and work, out of all the coils you can make. they are easy to get to any resistance depending on your core choice. they have great flavor compared to any coil 'below' them in difficulty. with some practice you can make them very quickly (i made wire/wrapped up four coils in four minutes a while ago). you can go from mtl to chasing clouds depending on what metals and gauges you use. there is a fused clapton build for every setup.

some of the harder to produce coils have them beat, but nothing beats fused claptons as badly as fused claptons beat everything below them imo also, a lot of the really fancy coils are made for looks, challenge, creativity etc, and not so much for vaping. sometimes those get mixed into discussions like this, but its apples to oranges when you bring art coils into a discussion on performance.

 

[whiteowl84]

It gets alot better than just aliens and staggered Clapton.
0.06ohm stagertons and staple staggered, 10x 32g alien cat tracks, 4x 28g SS aliens on tubes, 10ply helix staples...giant groove fused stagertons!
I can't imagine going back to regulated mods and clapton.

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[scarecrowjenkins]

Trust me, nobody would be putting in the bench time building super fancy coils if they vaped like shit hahaha. Just my 2¢ on the matter.
Probably my favorite balance between build time and quality of vape is Framed Staple Aliens, but anything with a staple core is gonna give you one hell of a vape, especially as far as flavor is concerned.

Once in a while I might end up with something that fails to provide the vape I'm expecting, but those instances are very few and far between. Once you learn how specific wires and wraps perform, it's fairly easy to predict the outcome as far as vape quality is concerned. Yeah they look fancy, but again, nobody would put in the time of the results weren't worth vaping

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[Rothom]

Those pictures are nothing short of amazing and I imagine they produce great flavor/vapor. I also imagine they took quite a bit of work to make which is my point. Simple Fused Claptons are kinda boring comparatively but are far easier to turn out reliably without have having a handful of wasted materials. I, like many reading this, will continue to spend hours sitting at a work station after school/work or on our days off spinning wires sticking out of drills to create these functional works of art but, at the end of the day, when we put the drills, vices, ohm readers, and screw drivers away, what do you default too? That's the question I had. For me it simple fused claptons.
Now, with that being said I have coils to plan out, new ways to curse that damn wire to think up, and maybe some cool pics to take if everything goes well.
Thank you all for your responses!


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[NickIsANoob]

The wide flat coils can be incredibly flavorful

 

[Rothom]

Tried this today.

 

[skt239]

Tried this today.

Very nice, sir. So, how do they vape?

 

[Rothom]

Thanks. Did my best after pulling a 12 hour shift. LoL Came in at .22ohms and I'm vaping it at 70w. Loads of flavor and vapor but, I think I'll stick to fused claptons on my mechs.


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[Twisted Vaping]

I can just say stepping from different sized aliens to staple coils changed my vaping experience and I can't imagine going back. Once I learned how to treat ribbon wire right I can do a dual set of framed staples in about 20 min, as long as it took to build a set of 3 or 4 core aliens. But to me it is such a smooth, thick. Flavorful vape without any spitting the staples provide, I never thought that and believed I would stick to aliens forever.
So when I have a good day making three sets of framed staples in one hour is definitively worth the effort since one set is used at least 2-3 weeks. In conclusion, 1 hour work for theoretically 2-3 month of vaping .... No comparison.

I think it's about surface area of these staples. Wire wizard sais that my staples (8ply 0.3 ribbon/29GA Frames/36Ga wrap/7 wraps 3mm ID) have 2680 mm2 surface per coil. My Aliens had about 860mm2 surface area. But who knows, I like the vape and that is what matters.

So you might wanna give the staples a try?

 

[Carambrda]

After having watched all the videos the fused clapton vs. the staple staggered fused clapton didn't seem to me like the latter could be that much more difficult to build. Here's the same picture I posted in the Post your builds topic near the bottom of page 278... it is my 1st coil build and still vaping it like mad right now, but it ohms out at .11 so not exactly what you might be looking for. Flavor is to die for compared to people who let me try their expensive setups that had some of the best aliens in them... (This is on my RX300 using VTC5As, noob photographing skills shot down the hole of my Troll RDA 2 with just a piece of masking tape to tame the flash of my Nokia phone.)

 

[Rothom]

Ribbon wire is something I have very limited experience with. Looks like you and Twisted Vaping have convinced me to try it out for myself. I appreciate the advise. Nice picture BTW! The Troll V2 is my default RDA on the set up I take to work every night.


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[Twisted Vaping]

Believe me... anybody had no experience with ribbon at the beginning but i think there a two things essentially to know:
1. straighten it right by stretching it out just a bit
2. as it might help take a few drops of vg when it Comes to get Your staple together as raymo showed us

On the other Hand Everybody has his own technique and tricks.

For example i Need an even number of ribbon (4,6,8,10) Since i Take 4 strands of ribbon Double the lenght i need, Loop Them through by the middle in my swivel an Then straight it to my 8ply staple an secure it with tape and a drop of hotglue. Then i Take a 3" lenght of tape and make a big tape roll at the End that comes into The Chuck.

As you see i only have my ribbon mounted in my drill and swivel.

Then i Take my Two frame wires, position them, and glue them at both ends to The staple. They only have contact to The staple.

After that i Take 2" pieces of ribbon and wrap Them loosely around the wire Every 3 Inches and Pinch them with my fingers. Thats it, ready to wrap.

When i reach one of them by wrapping i simply remove it.

Well That Works perfectly for ME.
Each and every time.

Good luck!

 

[whiteowl84]

The wide flat coils can be incredibly flavorful

You don't say? 10x 32g

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[Twisted Vaping]

You don't say? 10x 32g

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WTF?!? I would get Literally insane trying to get ten strands in parallel.
Respect!
Whats the wrapping gauge? 38? And decore size?

 

[Rothom]

Looks like I'm buying some ribbon wire. Have 2 questions. What size ribbon should I buy? Is .5 KA1 a place to start? Also, are any of these builds viable in a tube mech mod? For some reason I enjoy them more then my regulated mods.


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[whiteowl84]

I'd use 0.4mm. 0.5 is way too bulky to be practical for most builds and it's way harder to coil unless you use massive 26g frames.

Any build will work on a tube. It's a matter of what battery you use and how low you're willing to go.

SS is great on tubes if you like a warm vape. 3x 28g aliens with 5 wraps is pretty low in resistance and mass.

I have team mates that run 0.07 on a tube and have been for years.

@Twisted Vaping
I used 36g because I was out of wire and used a 22g decore.
They're really not that hard to make but it's one of those things that sounds impossible to do.

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[Rothom]

.4 it is then. Thanks and you're right about anything working in a mech but, I find I need to be a bit more thoughtful about what I put in a mech. Too much mass and i end up with ungodly ramp up time. For me a couple of seconds is fine. I use a mix of VTC5s, 25Rs, and HE2s. .07 is too low for my liking and prefer to keep my builds just north of .2


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[Carambrda]

I just put one end of the ribbon wire into my vice, then grab the other end with my pliers, turn the pliers to about a 90 degree angle so you don't have to use as much force on the pliers to get a firm grip on the wire, and finally just yank it (and yank it fairly hard if you decided to use .5x.1 Kanthal ribbon). If your vice isn't secured to anything you can put the vice on the floor so you can use your foot to keep the vice from moving as you pull, but make sure you go outside or put something underneath the vice so you don't damage your kitchen floor or anything like that. Wetting your fingers with a drop or two of simple tap water before running your fingers along the bunch of ribbon wires makes it easier to get the individual ribbon strands to stay put as you try to align and stack them. Slightly curving the ribbon wires without actually bending them enables you to push their .1mm sides down onto your table, which makes it much easier still.

Hot glue works for securing the ends of the wire, but so does a small piece of masking tape if you wrap it around loosley, then pinch it flat, and then tighten it up both sides of the stacked ribbon wire with your fingernails like Squidoode aka "The Doode" explained in his video. Like he also explained in that same excellent video, having a few extra little pieces of masking tape on hand can be useful. It's because when you are doing the final wrap, then if something starts to go wrong with the alignment of the ribbon in the middle (and IMO if you notice it on time thanks to using magnifying goggles like OhmBoy Josh is using in his videos) you can temporarily attach the masking tape in such a way that when you later remove it, gently removing it doesn't kink up the wires in any way. The masking tape I use is by a brand called Tesa, and it can be peeled off without leaving any traces of glue if peeling it off very slowly. Keep a good amount of tension on your drill to avoid running into too many problems with the alignment of the wires. Also, wrapping a bit of masking tape around the wire that goes halfway into the chuck of your drill might help with seating the wire into the chuck in such a way that it's nice and center, and might help to prevent the wire from breaking in half because when it breaks, I found that it usually does so at the chuck of the drill. Finally, here's another video you might want to check out first...

 

[NickIsANoob]

.4 it is then. Thanks and you're right about anything working in a mech but, I find I need to be a bit more thoughtful about what I put in a mech. Too much mass and i end up with ungodly ramp up time. For me a couple of seconds is fine. I use a mix of VTC5s, 25Rs, and HE2s. .07 is too low for my liking and prefer to keep my builds just north of .2


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Too safe for me and not many ribbon wire builds will have enough resistance for you. Most of my single coils with stacked ribbon end up below .2

 

[Rothom]

I've got some ribbon wire coming on Monday. I'm going to have to give this build a shot! Nice work my man!


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[verdigris]

OP likes simple fused Clapton builds.
Why we slam him with complex build pics and insane build suggestions?

Seems there's plenty threads about that...

 

[Carambrda]

OP likes simple fused Clapton builds.
Why we slam him with complex build pics and insane build suggestions?

Seems there's plenty threads about that...

This is why my suggestion was to add just a very tiny little amount of that awfully springy ribbon wire to the middle of these really amazingly sweet fused claptons and then grab something like an RX300 with four VTC5A batteries to go with that. Instant gratification loves me.

 

[Rothom]

Thanks versigris. Maybe I should have titled the thread differently. LoL I love seeing all these great looking/performing builds and I'm sure I'll try to recreate some of them and more. The thing is I started vaping to get away from analogs so while I enjoy this art form I "need" a default coil build that is satisfying and I found that in fused claptons. They are easy to make and I can crank them out reliably and quickly with a minimal amount of effort. So I have an rda that keeps fused claptons that I can move back and forth between a regulated box or tube mech depending on what I'm in the mod for at the moment and with the rest of my time/resources I work on more complicated builds. I assumed others were doing something similar and was curious what their default setup was. With that being said I truely appreciate everyone's input as these pictures are inspiring and awesome to see.


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