Dry firing new SS316L coils

Discussion in 'Coil Building' started by Just Frank, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Just Frank

    Just Frank Silver Contributor

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    I got some help in a TC thread a while back. I can't seem to find it. Anyways it doesn't matter. Maybe someone can help me with this. I don't remember a proper way to use SS wire. I had some 26ga SS humming in my Griff25+, flavor galore.

    I didnt keep at it and went to try recently. I got a metallic taste I hadn't had previously. I'm thinking I need to dry fire them to an extent? I use a Crown3 and Cleito .4 SS coils without dry burning. Why am I getting this taste?

    Recently I got some Geekvape SS fused clapton and juggernaut. I'd like to use it but forgot the basics using stainless. Can you please share your routine using fresh ss wire?
     
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  2. Wtmke1

    Wtmke1 Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I just quick pulse until it has a low glow. Strum and squeeze as normal. You don't want to fire it up hot. Just a low glow from what I understand.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
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  3. fozzy71

    fozzy71 Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    These types of pre-built coils you can't dry burn. Just make sure you prime the coils and let it sit 5 or 10 minutes in the tank before you vape. When I use my Cubis Pro with SS coils I break in a new coil in wattage mode so it is easier to start at a low wattage and work up to the preheat wattage I use in temp mode, then I switch the mod from VW to TV mode.
     
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  4. jojosvapes

    jojosvapes Drippopotamus VU Donator New Member

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    Funny enough was just reading http://vapingunderground.com/threads/glowing-new-coils.354439/ I did the same thing with my first SS coils and they were toast. I was thinking the forums should have some details on SS dry burning because it does need to be done, just not like Kanthal. I have not been able to find one so I wanted to share this:

    I did not make this and take no credit for it, its from AVS not sure of the Author but its great data. Below is a link to the article and it has a great video that every first time SS user should check out.

    MAKE SURE TO DRY FIRE SS COILS AFTER INSTALLATION AT 10-25W MAXIMUM AND SHORT PULSES.

    ALWAYS TEST OHMS, WE PREFER THE 521 TAB FOR THIS. MAKE SURE YOUR RESISTANCE IS 0.10 OHM OR HIGHER. LOOK FOR LOWER THAN EXPECTED OHMS (COIL IS TOUCHING SOMETHING). PLACE YOUR BUILD ON A MOD (OR 521) WITHOUT THE WICK. FIRE THE COIL BY PULSING THE FIRE BUTTON FOR 1/2 - 1 SECOND AT A TIME STARTING AT 10-20 WATTS MAX. USING YOUR CERAMIC TIP TWEEZERS, PINCH THE COIL TOGETHER WHILE GETTING IT TO GLOW, THIS ELIMINATES HOT SPOTS AND SHOULD CREATE A NICE EVEN GLOW. YOU CAN ALSO USE A STRUMMING TECHNIQUE THAT WE SHOW ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL. YOU CAN ADJUST POSITIONING AT THIS POINT WITH YOUR CERAMIC TWEEZERS OR COIL JIG. INCREASE WATTAGE BY 5 WATTS AT A TIME UNTIL THE COIL JUST BEGINS TO GLOW.

    NOW, AT 15-30W, PULSE THE FIRE BUTTON FOR 1-2 SECONDS A COUPLE TIMES. YOU SHOULD SEE A NICE EVEN RED GLOW START AT THE CENTER OF THE COIL AND WORK OUTWARDS TOWARDS THE LEGS. OBSERVE CAREFULLY THAT THE COILS HEAT UP EVENLY! IF IN DUAL SET UP ENSURE THEY HEAT UP EQUALLY AS WELL. (IF NOT THEN CONTINUE PINCHING OR STRUMMING THE COIL UNTIL THEY DO.) LET THE COIL COOL BACK DOWN TO ROOM TEMPERATURE, YOU CAN AID THIS BY BLOWING ON THE COIL. NOW USING TWEEZERS (WE USE VETUS ESD-15 CURVED FINE TIP TWEEZERS) INSTALL THE WICK OF YOUR CHOICE THE WAY YOU LIKE.

    **SPACED COIL BUILDS HAVE LESS ISSUES WITH HOT SPOTS!!! WATCH OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL!

    TIPS

    * DO TEST OHMS AFTER INSTALL OR MODIFICATION

    * DO NOT GET THIS GLOWING BRIGHT RED OR WHITE. A FAINT ORANGE RED GLOW IS ENOUGH. IF YOU GET IT TOO HOT YOU WILL HURT THE WIRE AND IT WILL FORM HARMFUL OXIDES. (OXIDES ARE PRESENT ON ANY HEATED METAL, HARMFUL OXIDES AREN’T RELEASED ON SS UNLESS CRITICAL TEMPS ARE REACHED, LIKE A BRIGHT GLOW INSTEAD OF A FAINT DULL GLOW.

    *MAKE SURE YOUR COILS ARE NOT TOUCHING ANY PART OF YOUR RDA, RTA, OR SIDES OF THE “CHIMNEY” OR ANY OTHER AREA. ONLY THE LEG OF THE COIL SHOULD CONTACT THE POST.

    *DO NOT OVER PACK WICK OR WICK THE COIL TOO LOOSE. THERE ARE LOTS OF GUIDES ON THE INTERNET TO THIS. WE ALSO ADDRESS IT IN BETTER DETAIL ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

    *FINALLY, MAKE SURE TO PRIME COIL BEFORE FIRST USE

    Link with Video:

    https://www.advancedvapesupply.com/pages/316l-coil-wire-instructions
     
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  5. Just Frank

    Just Frank Silver Contributor

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    Yeah I know. I just meant I dont get the metallic taste from them.
     
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  6. fozzy71

    fozzy71 Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    my bad, I misunderstood that part of your post Yes when building with SS dry burn at low wattage (read the post above) and use ceramic tweezers to work out any hot spots. I try and space my coils and I usually don't have to mess with my coils much.
     
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  7. Pegleg Meg

    Pegleg Meg Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Patience, very slow and low heating till all hot spots gone...and with that "premium" wire, it's even harder.
    I gave up on Clapton or twisted SS because of unending hot spots and ensuing bad taste. Chemical tastes scare me.

    Good luck. Plain SS round wire is not too hard to get glowing evenly...torching before building helps.supposedly but I felt like I was overdoing it with the oxidation. And I always wash with water after dry burning and cooling...but yeah I know someone else can help you more because I'm pretty over stainless steel. Kanthal never fails me :)

    My twisted, two strands of 26g kanthal claptoned still tastes new 3 months later, and yummy!
     
  8. Mattp169

    Mattp169 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Vape Media

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    um i pulse my coils at 50-60 watts whatever my mod is set at lol
    i use only SS 316L

    basically if they dont taste right
    pull the wicks dry fire them and use ceramic tweezers to scrape off any junk on the
    when thats done
    drip some water form tha facuet on them to cool them back off
    make sure they are firing right and the ohms are right
    rewick
    and enjoy
    316l coils can last months and dozens of rewicks
     
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  9. jojosvapes

    jojosvapes Drippopotamus VU Donator New Member

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    Hey Fozzy I hope my post was not seen as a dig at your comment cause I posted they do need to be dry burned, I was just sharing some info. But after going back and reading the entire thread I thought it could be seen that way and that would be the farthest intention-im really laid back and try not to come across as abrupt or blunt

    Happy Vaping
     
  10. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Silver Contributor

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    I advise spacing the juggernauts, they are a pita if you don't. Hard to get an even glow, especially with a dual build. Very tasty vape, worth the effort.
     
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  11. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I do SS316 roundwire builds and just heat the coil enough to burn off any impurity.
    Maybe a very dull glow.
     
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  12. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    AVS' advice is spot on but there are few mods that properly TC a contact coil. Spaced SS coils work best in everything and a DNA of FSK chip can TC a contact coil well. FSK there is no noticeable difference.
     
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  13. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I space all my SS coils whether for TC or power mode.
    Just seems to give better vapor that way.
    and SS coils are all that I use.
     
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  14. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Silver Contributor

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    I space them because it is just so much easier.
     
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  15. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah that too and ZERO worries about hot spots and such.
    I space my parallel SS coils. Not duals but parallel.
     
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  16. Pegleg Meg

    Pegleg Meg Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I've heard that rapidly cooling hot coils can cause some extra unwanted oxidation
     
  17. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I think that's just water that does that. It's more noticeable with 430 than 316. But 430 vapes sooo much better in TC.
     
  18. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I think that most decent mods can do a great job on SS TC. I run dual SS Clapton contact coils in several attys, no problems at all with any mod I have.

    When I started using SS, I knew of nobody else that was. The vape shop I went to at the time asked I not vape my "cancer metal" there. :xD:

    So much has changed in three years. I stumbled across this the other day.


    http://vapingunderground.com/threads/stainless-steel-coils.114021/#post-608359

    Only a couple of years ago. lol

    I just heat my coils up, and stick them under the tap. 2 or 3 times, they look good as new.
     
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  19. falcor

    falcor Member For 1 Year

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    I was just about to write a new thread about this, but this seems like a good place to put it.

    I hear conflicting stuff on SS316/SS316L. Seems the consensus is to calibrate the coils at very low wattage. I do this in a dark room. But still, my coils change color, first to blue and purple (which I think is normal), but then to black if I have to balance them for too long.

    I wrap my own coils using VandyVape Stagger Fused Claptons or GeekVape Stagger Fused Claptons, usually 6.5 wraps for about 0.1-0.15 ohms.

    Some sites say to dry fire them a bit hot, to create "protective oxidation". Others say creating any oxidation on SS is bad, because bits of it get into your vape and thus into your lungs. I'd really like a consensus!

    But more than anything, I'd like to share a couple of photos, and learn whether these look right.

    First: a brand new build, after balancing the coils. As you can see, they are already quite dark. And sometimes when balancing, they get even darker, quickly. I wash them under the sink just because I'm worried about oxidation or whatever.

    https://cl.ly/2I2p1z0P0d0Y

    Second, a spent coil, used twice; once new, then with a pulse to orange to running sink (3-4 times) to clean the gunk off, plus a pretty vigorous metal brush brushing. So it probably was used for 1-2 weeks. To me, the coil is totally black, and if you look at the legs, you can see the original (silver) color.

    [​IMG]https://cl.ly/3S3t2r3T3M0Q
    [​IMG]

    A few other details: with the Kylin (v2) I run at give or take 100W; sometimes it will just beg for 120W, other times if it's not wicking well, it's more like 80W. With the Govad (single coil RDA), I run at 70-85W and get stellar flavor. Obviously, the flavor starts to get very muted as a few days go by and the coils get darker. I also run about half the time in TC mode for SS316L, at the same wattages (maybe a bit lower), and temps around 500F (but this varies a lot because sometimes the ohms just don't read right, even on my DNA250 device, so 600F can be a cold vape for weird reasons, but usually it's pretty spot on).

    Can someone tell me if these look right, and if not, what I'm doing wrong? I wrap 3mm ID coils using a CoilMaster kit. I balance them carefully and at low power. Is it something to do with the quality of Chinese metal? I did notice when I made my own Claptons with two sizes of wire from Kidney Puncher (high grade Swedish SS316L), they seemed to last a bit longer, but that's it.

    Any thoughts, insights, or advice would be much appreciated. I wish the coils would just stay silver :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  20. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Silver Contributor

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    The coils will not stay silver. Just a fact of life. The quality of your wire does make a difference. I use AVS, Advanced Vape Supply, and am very pleased with the quality of their products. On a recommendation I have ordered a couple of spools of 316l ss wire from kbee's. I get good performance and coil life from AVS wires and prebuilt coils. AVS has a good ss wire tutorial on their yt channel.
     
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  21. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Never heard this from a credible source - lowest watts you can get away with for dry firing SS


    She is right :)
     
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  22. falcor

    falcor Member For 1 Year

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  23. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Silver Contributor

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  24. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    First, many wires contain machine oils etc. Should vapers inhale that or burn it off?

    Also, I see no advice on how to get the coil to heat evenly without dry burning

    Later on the article it states this:

    Let’s relativize
    There is no reason to think that a dry-burn would make vaping worse than smoking. Nevertheless, it increases the risk of releasing potentially harmful compounds that may be inhaled by the user. In order to check the consistency of a home-made coil and to clean it from manufacturing residuals, a moderate heating of the wire may appear useful, from the experience of vapers.
     
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  25. Just Frank

    Just Frank Silver Contributor

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    For @falcor-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I will come back and post pics of mine when I get going.
     
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  26. zombievapereview

    zombievapereview Bronze Contributor

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    Jeez I want a postless atty. They look very sturdy and allow the perfect Mount. With postless I honestly feel that your coils would more than likely have a better chance of leg length being identical.

    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
     
  27. pizzadave80

    pizzadave80 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I have never treated my coils much differently from one another. I hear them up to a subtle glow and shape and form them. When they are gunked up, I pull my cotton and heat up until the gunk starts to burn off....then I place under two water... pulse them wet... place under water...pulse them wet. Normally around 50w. I never knew I'd the dangers of ss coil wire over heating so from now on I'll probably back off on my dry burn level if heating.

    I use all my coils for months btw... burn them off...re wick... enjoy

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  28. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Wat??


    As Letitia9 said, temps of 600C are required to form oxidization. To use technical jargon, 600C is really really really fucking hot.

    How hot? No insulators left in your atomizer hot. PEEK (Poly ether keytone) which is probably the most suitable materiel for insulators in atomizers has a melting point of 343C.

    You will be unable to get your coils hot enough to worry about oxidization, without melting the insulators first. And most atomizers don't even use PEEK, because of price, The material they use can barely approach 200C before it melts.

    There is a reason that 304 and 316 are used in surgical implants. In equipment in the food industry. In the pharmaceutical and chemical industry. In aerospace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  29. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Leg length is not as big a factor as many think. Smok knows a thing or two about atomizers, and if you examine their tri coil RBA for the TFV-12, which I'm vaping as I type this, one leg on each coil is nearly 3X the length of the other. Yet, they all pulse nicely and equally from the inside out.





    age.jpg
     
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  30. OneBadWolf

    OneBadWolf VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    @falcor. Your coils look just fine. The black coil gore is mostly residual from your juice. Some juice can really gunk coils badly. Even my worst DIY juice does not approach the amount of gunk that commercial juice on average produced.

    Another topic, but I'm curious as to why.


    Hmm. That's a new one to me. Sounds like a sixteen year old's explanation for not using a condom.... If you suck it all out first, there wont be any left.. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  31. Just Frank

    Just Frank Silver Contributor

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    I went back to the basics. I went with simple 26awg SS316L in my RTA. Dual coils, 6 wrap (spaced), 3MM ID, .2 Ohms.

    I pulsed it five or six times. My mod was set at 15W. I fired the in one second bursts. I got zero glow but I smelled hot metal. I wicked it up and put it together.

    I started low and went up 5W at a time (three hits per increment). I was at 40W and still tasted no metal. I got that problem fixed. But the flavor wasn't there either.

    I switched to SS mode 380° (60W ramp). BOOM! Flavor inproved 10 fold. I worked up to 410° and thats the sweet spot. This really is awesome.

    I think the pulsing really helped. Thanks everyone for the help. I'll have to tinker around with the bigger SS wires and see if I can get them performing well too. But this simple build seems more than enough. Great, great, flavor and clouds are very decent.
     
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  32. jojosvapes

    jojosvapes Drippopotamus VU Donator New Member

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    Happy to hear you found something that works. I still use it about 85% of the time, seem to be able to find the sweet spot for my flavor preference more so. Good luck and keep tinkering I am certain you will continue to find more you like and dislike to enjoy vaping more and away from the ole fashion Lucy's..
     
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  33. µDavid

    µDavid Member For 1 Year

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    I haven't read through this thread completely but I wanted to add that I never dry-firing my SS316 coils(Single strand 22AWG/0.615mm-ish), but then it is important to thoroughly clean your wire before making coils to get rid of the stuff that might be on there, as for making the coils equal I simply take my time when installing them and I can tell be the amount of black stuff that builds up that they are heating up good, I don't remember the name of the different types of coils but I space mine with almost as much free space between each turn as the wires diameter.

    After having vaped juices with EM or custard or something that makes a lot of black stuff I clean the coils with the used cotton with hot water when I re-wick and I get almost all the black stuff off keeping the SS316 coils shining silver through days and days of vaping.
     
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