Agreed. But the FDA and Big Tobacco wants smokers. These regulations have nothing to do with health. Just sales my friend.
Become a Patron!
FDA REGULATIONS: DON'T PANIC!
- Thread starter VaporJoe
- Start date
f1r3b1rd
https://cookingwithlegs.com/
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
yet you find one story drawing the cause and effect of the two. teens vaping is up 16% and teen smoking is down 9%
hmmmm
I don't think the FDA realize who they are fucking with...I think they have this idea that they are fucking with a bunch of 19 year old skaterboys....I think with the number of educated intelligent and capable adults that make up the vaping community...the black market and illicit vape trade is going to make ...al capone and prohibition look like lemonade stand.
I posted this elsewhere:
I was doing research on tobacco vs. ecig use among youth. The CDC lumps them together when they state that the total overall ecig/tobacco use among youth has remained statistically constant from 2011-2015. So smoking is down but vaping is up among kids. Does anyone have any research on use of nicotine vs flavor only vaping among youth?
^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^
No significant changes in over all use. So, if teen vaping is up, that means that cigarette use is being replaced. That's a good thing. Take away the vaping and they'll simply shift back to the carcinogenic crap.
Rabbit Slayer
Silver Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
how does one argue with that "logic"
Last edited by a moderator:
Shenzhen Mingjietong Technology Co., Ltd.
Guangdong, China
Shenzhen Joyetech Co.,Ltd.
Address: 9th Blvd.Changxing High New Tech. Industry Zone, Shajing Town, Baoan District, ShenZhen China.
Tel: 0086 755 81737161 Fax: 0086 755 81737094
Dear honorable sirs,
The United States Food and Drug Administration has openly declared economic war upon your businesses. They have done this via means of regulations which carry force of law. These new regulations would require any new vaping, electronic product to submit to the authority of the United States Food and Drug Administration for review. The United States Food and Drug Administration will also require approximately 3- 20 million dollars per each new product review prior to any product being approved for sale in United States markets.
This will decimate many smaller vendors of your products. It will also mean you loose a vast market share in the electronic cigarette and vaping industry. Through your creation of this industry, more employment has been gained by vendors in the United States. Customers in the United States feel very good about your industry, realizing its potential to save lives and have great positive environmental and social impact. The United States Food and Drug Administration has chosen to side to side with the big tobacco industry which only seeks profit as an end game.
We the consumers, the vaping shop vendors, the family members glad of harm reduction offered by your products, seek assistance. We understand that you appreciate the value of business. Also at stake is reputations and honor of being socially responsible. To the end users of your products there is no redress against the United States Food and Drug Administration's actions. The political system in the United States has been eroded by greed, profit replacing human life as the key to happy consumers, a happy planet. Any aid you may offer would be greatly appreciated. It would demonstrate you commitment to the consumers, who no doubt would offer commitment to your products in return.
Thank you kindly sirs,
The Vaping Community of the United States
Ooops, did I type that aloud? Did I also send it to Shenzhen Mingjietong Technology via a contact form / email?
How many times you folks be told, I'm insane? I will ask for help if no one minds me. I do strange things like that. No one was looking, no one else was doing more than fussing. I thought, "gee, who really 'runs the show' as far as vaping, wouldn't it be nice to let them know the FDA just destroyed their best market?" Then, I thought "if not anyone else, then who will do that?" Eneter the insane one, me, I'll do it.
Don't think China will fight this very hard, yes it will hurt their bottom line, as lost a lot of customers, but they still have the rest of the world to sell too.
It annoys me, I might be fighting to stay vaping in the future, but who I really feel bad for, is all the vendors and workers, they are destroying people's business and livelihoods, if this all stays, be hardly, if any vape shops and vendors left in the US.
It annoys me, I might be fighting to stay vaping in the future, but who I really feel bad for, is all the vendors and workers, they are destroying people's business and livelihoods, if this all stays, be hardly, if any vape shops and vendors left in the US.
Yeah. There's one vendor that I know of who not only quit his job that he was making pretty good money at, but also mortgaged his house to pay for the shop. I don't know how many other vendors are out there that are in the same situation, but I'm sure he's not alone.
You may be right but not out anything to let them know, to ask for help.
Isn't the vapingunderground domain registered with godaddy and hosting provided via Cloudfare in Arizona?
Isn’t that very much within reach of the US Government, should they decide to replace the VU homepage with a Homeland Security template?
At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, there's an issue we have that isn't getting much mention. What will happen when I try to take Dad or Grandma to a vape shop, to check out a Nautilus or Kanger? Will the intermediate vapor with a TFV4 who doesn't know how to build coils continue to invest in Vaping? Time is of the essence, because of the potential of stalled sales for both vape shops and online vendors.
Just look at forum volume differences between categories in recent days.
There will be cigalikes for the beginners, and the hobbyists will be self sufficient. It's the vast middle ground that stands a good screwing.
Without new customers, who will be around to sell to the mainstream in 24 months? Will prices go way up, and then way down?
I used to think there will be accountability when smoking jumps to 30%, but it's easy enough to point fingers elsewhere, and come up with stupid 30 sec sound bytes than produce any real assistance for those who want to stop smoking. However, people will lie, and we can become a nation of closet smokers.
I think we will prevail in a decade's time, but there's a lot of lung damage between now and then. And to think big tobacco took the chance to look good by stopping our perceived problem.
Similar regs are now about to cause me a second non-relates job loss in 4 years. The ACA has wiped out my finances, in the process of surviving a cancer battle. They have also wiped out effective treatments that could help me in the future, due to similar reasoning as the Vaping battle.
Not sure where to turn, but I agree with everyone who says we need to do this united.
Just look at forum volume differences between categories in recent days.
There will be cigalikes for the beginners, and the hobbyists will be self sufficient. It's the vast middle ground that stands a good screwing.
Without new customers, who will be around to sell to the mainstream in 24 months? Will prices go way up, and then way down?
I used to think there will be accountability when smoking jumps to 30%, but it's easy enough to point fingers elsewhere, and come up with stupid 30 sec sound bytes than produce any real assistance for those who want to stop smoking. However, people will lie, and we can become a nation of closet smokers.
I think we will prevail in a decade's time, but there's a lot of lung damage between now and then. And to think big tobacco took the chance to look good by stopping our perceived problem.
Similar regs are now about to cause me a second non-relates job loss in 4 years. The ACA has wiped out my finances, in the process of surviving a cancer battle. They have also wiped out effective treatments that could help me in the future, due to similar reasoning as the Vaping battle.
Not sure where to turn, but I agree with everyone who says we need to do this united.
I've been vaping for about 6 years now. Started on a Prodigy V1. I knew then that the government would get their claws into us eventually. It honestly took longer than I thought it would. If the vape lobby were organized and strong, we could fight this far more effectively than running around in small cells. Unity, that's the key. Elitism will unravel any chance we have. I don't see it a lot on here, though it prevails on other vape forums. Organize, write your congressperson. Do it all. Do it daily. I do. I am probably on some kind of list (again) lol.
Vaping iis not doomed. Not by a longshot.
Vaping iis not doomed. Not by a longshot.
I can see battery companies joining in on a lawsuit. No way they can charge excessive tax on a consumer item such as a 18650 or 26650. Can you imagine the nerd fight from those flashlight fellows? A few lawsuits will keep things going for awhile. I see a much more manageable ending. One that see's responsible eliquid and ecig makers coming out on top and the vultures gone. I'd rather pay a decent buck for quality devices. There is some good that can come from this as long as we fight.
90quattrocoupe
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I see a few things.
One - Juice companies can still sell 0 nic juice.
Two - Mods now become flashlight tubes. It will increase the cost, but there are a lot of 510 connector flashlight heads out in the world. Add one to a mod and it is now a flashlight. So you will have to buy the flashlight head along with the mod.
Three - They won't be able to do anything about the batteries, because they existed before 2007.
Four - Since it has been shown that you can use liquid **** and **** in atomizers, you still have an avenue for purchasing atomizers. Just the advertising and product description needs to be changed.
Five - Is an atomizer, an atomizer if it has no wire or cotton in it?
Six - Nicotine liquid is has a lot of other uses besides vaping. Liquid nicotine was around before 2007. I don't see why it would not still be available to purchase.
Greg W.
One - Juice companies can still sell 0 nic juice.
Two - Mods now become flashlight tubes. It will increase the cost, but there are a lot of 510 connector flashlight heads out in the world. Add one to a mod and it is now a flashlight. So you will have to buy the flashlight head along with the mod.
Three - They won't be able to do anything about the batteries, because they existed before 2007.
Four - Since it has been shown that you can use liquid **** and **** in atomizers, you still have an avenue for purchasing atomizers. Just the advertising and product description needs to be changed.
Five - Is an atomizer, an atomizer if it has no wire or cotton in it?
Six - Nicotine liquid is has a lot of other uses besides vaping. Liquid nicotine was around before 2007. I don't see why it would not still be available to purchase.
Greg W.
Last edited by a moderator:
90quattrocoupe
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Another thing I see for atomizers. You could buy a kit, that comes in pieces, and you put it together yourself. Similar to Heath kits that were made years ago. When I was young I made a transistor radio from a kit.
We also need to question the use of tobacco tax, e.g. for funding bonds, and call out those who have not been forthcoming about this motivation. This should include what would happen if the payments can't be made. I'd suggest starting with Blumenthal, Markey, Reed, and some other antz from the northeast and beyond.
On one hand, our insurers (private or gov't) and employers don't want the cost of smoking related illness, and nanny's will cry about someone smoking (or vaping) 50 feet from a building entrance, minding his own business. On the other hand, pharm sells patches, gum, Chantix, benzos, and antidepressants, not to mention chemo. Some of the new targeted oral chemos can now cost $150K or more, per person, per year. Big tobacco, goes without saying.
I've done advocacy work for the Dept. of Health in our state, for cancer prevention, as well as for several other organizations. Rather than offer smokers anything meaningful to quit, they are wasting many millions on slogans (e.g. on the sides of buses) and ridiculous ad campaigns. I can assure you that some of the things your doctor would prescribe to help you quit are far riskier, and more addictive than nicotine in any form. Some of this is from personal experience, some from friends.
Watching the money trail usually gets to the core, and those things need to be questioned, especially when covered up by "save the children." When the kids now start smoking, it will be blamed on vaping, when smoking otherwise would not have happened in any big way.
Total tobacco sales (e.g. by State) need to be compared before and after, rather than survey statements from people as to whether or not they smoke. If sales go way up, they can't determine that existing smokers are suddenly smoking more for some reason. Divide the total sales revenue by perhaps 15 analogs/day, and that should give a pretty good idea of how many people are really smoking, without targeting smokers on a personal level.
Finally, the grandfather date must be applied to analogs released since 2007. Just off hand, Marlboro Black, Edge, Smooth, 83, 54, Skyline....... several of the Camel Brands, and a whole range of second tier brands (the new Pall Mall, Maverick, L&M), etc. If they did not exist by Feb. 2007, they must be forced to file for the investigation and approval process, revealing all their toxic ingredients. Not an expert on tobacco brands, so please excuse the likely errors above.
On one hand, our insurers (private or gov't) and employers don't want the cost of smoking related illness, and nanny's will cry about someone smoking (or vaping) 50 feet from a building entrance, minding his own business. On the other hand, pharm sells patches, gum, Chantix, benzos, and antidepressants, not to mention chemo. Some of the new targeted oral chemos can now cost $150K or more, per person, per year. Big tobacco, goes without saying.
I've done advocacy work for the Dept. of Health in our state, for cancer prevention, as well as for several other organizations. Rather than offer smokers anything meaningful to quit, they are wasting many millions on slogans (e.g. on the sides of buses) and ridiculous ad campaigns. I can assure you that some of the things your doctor would prescribe to help you quit are far riskier, and more addictive than nicotine in any form. Some of this is from personal experience, some from friends.
Watching the money trail usually gets to the core, and those things need to be questioned, especially when covered up by "save the children." When the kids now start smoking, it will be blamed on vaping, when smoking otherwise would not have happened in any big way.
Total tobacco sales (e.g. by State) need to be compared before and after, rather than survey statements from people as to whether or not they smoke. If sales go way up, they can't determine that existing smokers are suddenly smoking more for some reason. Divide the total sales revenue by perhaps 15 analogs/day, and that should give a pretty good idea of how many people are really smoking, without targeting smokers on a personal level.
Finally, the grandfather date must be applied to analogs released since 2007. Just off hand, Marlboro Black, Edge, Smooth, 83, 54, Skyline....... several of the Camel Brands, and a whole range of second tier brands (the new Pall Mall, Maverick, L&M), etc. If they did not exist by Feb. 2007, they must be forced to file for the investigation and approval process, revealing all their toxic ingredients. Not an expert on tobacco brands, so please excuse the likely errors above.
90quattrocoupe
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
While we are at it, you should send an email to the office of Tom Cole, Representative in Congress. He added this to the agriculture appropriations bill. We should thank him for his support.
Rep. Cole – The amendment adds bill language to modernize the February 2007 predicate date for tobacco products. The amendment was adopted on a vote of 31-19. Congress.
In addition, to moving the date from 2007 to sometime in 2016, it also:
Rep. Cole – The amendment adds bill language to modernize the February 2007 predicate date for tobacco products. The amendment was adopted on a vote of 31-19. Congress.
In addition, to moving the date from 2007 to sometime in 2016, it also:
- Require FDA to begin rulemaking to establish a product standard for e-vapor product batteries within 1 year of the effective date of the Deeming Regulation, and publish a final product standard for e-vapor product batteries within 2 years of the effective date of the Deeming Regulation.
- Cause an e-vapor product to be considered misbranded under the FDCA if it is advertised in a newspaper, magazine, periodical, or any other publication other than an adult publication (i.e., a publication with 15% or less of its readership from readers younger than 18 years of age, and read by fewer than 2 million persons under 18 years of age).
- Require retailers to sell e-vapor products in direct face-to-face exchanges without the use of any electronic or mechanical devices, such as a vending machine. This provision contains an exemption for mail-order sales (i.e., internet), and allows the use of vending machines or self-service displays if the machine or display is located in a facility where the retailer can ensure no persons under the age of 18 would be permitted to enter (i.e., adult-only facilities).
- Require publication, within 1 year of the effective date of the Deeming Regulation, a regulation that would require e-vapor products to be labeled with the phrases "Keep Out of Reach of Children," and "Underage Sale Prohibited," as well as feature an accurate statement of the nicotine content of the product.
- Requires retailers (e.g., vape shops) to register their establishment with FDA unless such retailer has already registered under any state or federal law.
I'm madder than Hell. I collect flash lights. Odd hobby I know, (get over it) This is nothing more than a Bullshit run for the dollar!
I'm madder than Hell. I collect flash lights. Odd hobby I know, (get over it) This is nothing more than a Bullshit run for the dollar!
Hobbies are only old when you no longer care to do it. Seems like everything I like to do they want to restrict or make it too expensive. Dem's, Rep, Libertarians, they are all bought and paid for.
I heard that they already have provisions in place for nicotine that is not derived from tobacco to circumvent any loopholes that can be exploited, but I could be wrong Joe.
I used to envy you, for all the variety available in your country.
But now I don't know, maybe keeping it on a on a small flame is a good thing and will keep my county's health department from doing anything about it.
On the other hand they might just make it easy for themselves are copy yours.
But now I don't know, maybe keeping it on a on a small flame is a good thing and will keep my county's health department from doing anything about it.
On the other hand they might just make it easy for themselves are copy yours.
Yes. Per my buddy who owns a Vape Lounge, samples with 0% Nic and are in no way derived from tobacco are still permitted and will continue to be.
Just some FYI
Lil more FYI, a cousin ( rather not say name) is in amongst this and fighting FOR the entire Vape movement, ALL VAPORS old & new!! BUT as our forefathers did, we must stand up and fight for our rights!! Once again we are being told what to do, how to do it and , as our forefathers have done before us, we MUST rise up as a whole and once again tell the government, the money mongers etc that no matter how deep your pockets are, now matter how high in The government you are, no matter what palms you grease or whose election you donate to, WE DONT CARE!! WE THE PEOPLE are here and we will do as we want!! It's states" BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE" not by the dollar, for the dollar. And no matter what you think WE OUTNUMBER YOU!!
Keep on keeping on!
I just got $150ml of my best ejuice and have another 900ml and supplies coming from Yealiq.com in Israel. What about getting ejuice from foreign vendors? either way, I AM stocking up. And, I'm going to visit my local ejuice pharmacy to buy pure nic for DIY when D-Day comes. I also got the SMOK TFV4 full kit ordered yesterday and will order lots of premade RDAs, other coils, kanthol, cotton, you name it. It will be expensive, but will keep me from smoking cigs.
I stand firmly with VJ and VU to fight this hard. Let's do it like we own it! VAPE ON & FIGHT!
CORRECTION: I bought 210ml of my ADV. I need to find more Lost Fog STREEK. Hard to find vs renamed or clone STREAK. Anyway, got my son to agree to vape. Will be ordering online (cheaper) then take him to the magic pharmacy.
You need a fume hood and specialized equipment to work with pure nic. The max most of us use is 100mg/ml, which is much safer and not nearly as difficult to work with.
I highly, HIGHLY suggest you research this decision. Latex gloves and protective eyewear will not stand between you and pure nic.
Dr. Mike Siegel will be on Kev's show at 2pm (EST) tomorrow (Tuesday).
http://vplivenetwork.com
In the meantime, scroll down to the rebroadcasts and check out "Deeming for Dummies." It's an interview with Cynthia Cabrera, president of SFATA.
http://vplivenetwork.com
In the meantime, scroll down to the rebroadcasts and check out "Deeming for Dummies." It's an interview with Cynthia Cabrera, president of SFATA.
f1r3b1rd
https://cookingwithlegs.com/
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
considering the government, nothing is supposed to make sense.
these are the same people that spent how many millions to study a shrimp on a treadmill?
these are the same people that spent how many millions to study a shrimp on a treadmill?
I posted this elsewhere:
I was doing research on tobacco vs. ecig use among youth. The CDC lumps them together when they state that the total overall ecig/tobacco use among youth has remained statistically constant from 2011-2015. So smoking is down but vaping is up among kids. Does anyone have any research on use of nicotine vs flavor only vaping among youth?
I found it from drugabuse.gov: " A significant majority (over 60 percent across all grades) reported vaporizing “just flavoring.” So basically, only 40% of knowingly vaped nicotine.
To all of you regarding handling pure nic, I am aware of the precautions I must take. I'll be ordering goggles and surgery masks (although I have the harder, white rounded ones from Home Depot, and nitrile gloves. I will not attempt this until I am sure of what I am doing in adding nic to 0 juice.
Boy, just when I thought building my own coils was hard, now we have this to deal with.
I'm so glad there are pre-made replacement dual, trip and quad coil for the SMOK TFV4 just ordered as well as replacements, fully wicked RDA/RBAs. Will be ordering more mods, and tanks too. Will move to that thread.
Boy, just when I thought building my own coils was hard, now we have this to deal with.
I'm so glad there are pre-made replacement dual, trip and quad coil for the SMOK TFV4 just ordered as well as replacements, fully wicked RDA/RBAs. Will be ordering more mods, and tanks too. Will move to that thread.
Goggles and nitrile gloves are good for 100mg/ml nic (if you want to be extra safe). For pure nic you need specialized equpment - such as a fume hood.
I appreciate what you're saying, but I wouldn't even attempt adding pure nic to ready made 0 nic juice. IF i were even thinking of pure nic, I'd dilute in a bottle of PG or VG to where I could just dump the bottle in. It's a seriously dangerous chemical in pure form. A single drop can make you sick, a single drop ingested could shut down your respiratory system and kill you. I've heard there are specialty gloves that are safest. One of the vendors made a lengthy post about it. If I can find it, I'll share it. I caution because so many people read these forums and we never see them post, they may simply lurk, I'm not trying to scare anyone away, but when it's not diluted down, it's nothing to play with.
f1r3b1rd
https://cookingwithlegs.com/
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
this is the rts sheet for pure nicotine
http://www.rtsvapes.com/Pure_Nicotine_Material_Safety_Data_Sheet_s/111.htm
cdc recommendations when handeling(ironic I know)
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_29750028.html
I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but I'm a huge fan of safety. surgical masks and nitrile gloves appear to be much less than what is recommended.
just please practice safety and don't put yourself at risk.
At the very minimum, read this thread before considering a mix. Nitrile gloves will not hold up to PURE nic. Pure nic is a FDA regulation further waiting to happen IMO. Vendor posts begin at #31
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/pure-nicotine.49240/
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/pure-nicotine.49240/
f1r3b1rd
https://cookingwithlegs.com/
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
the fact that its not is a whole different discussion of the government doing shit ass backwards
Thank you!!!
f1r3b1rd
https://cookingwithlegs.com/
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
VU Challenge Team
Member For 5 Years
VU Patreon
more info on pure nicotine
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/do-not-do-this-at-home.237124/
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/do-not-do-this-at-home.237124/
LOL. That from a guy that sells pure nic.