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FDA to ban fruity e-cigarette pod flavors, but allow tank vaping systems

Discussion in '#BANTHIS' started by Vape Fan, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    FDA to ban fruity e-cigarette pod flavors, but allow tank vaping systems

    Looks like this latest ban discussion has led to pre-filled pods of fruit flavors will be banned. And that’s about it for now. With evaluation continuing for an open door to return those flavors.

    It’s being said that for open systems, that market of shops, stores, flavors, will continue unchanged.

    In a give/take scenario, I’d say a win for vaping.
     
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  2. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yep looks like a win for a few months.
    But I am waiting on the official release on this.
     
  3. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    I'm more curious to see how this will effect the endgame
     
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  4. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    If this fruity pods only ban is true, deeming would have to change in order to save (or prolong) the same jobs, big business, and smoking alternative. Wouldn't be prudent to say its not ok to have what's already been addressed / isn't banned.

    The slowing of reported illnesses should help in that regard.
    evali.png
     
  5. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    As it currently stands all things vape still have to have a filed PMTA app or an approved PMTA app to sell after May 12.
     
  6. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    It's not a win if we ignore our pod vaping brothers and sisters folks

    Sure, I'll still have mine - even if I wasn't prepped to the gills - but a loss for any group of vapers is a loss to all

    Kinda like what happened first to smoking (and rapidly to vaping); non-smokers asked for a few reasonable accommodations, like stop smoking in restaurants and airplanes and the ninnies stretch it so that some places smokers literally have to stand in a gutter to legally smoke outside

    They are gunning for us all, so anyone who breathes a sigh of relief that "only pods flavor users" lose is in for a real bruising later on
     
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  7. joeanna

    joeanna

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    and then the black market pods start showing up again, then back to the beginning all over again...
     
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  8. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yep I am reminded of the Cole-bishop amendment.
    Threw mechs under the bus and required safety stuff from regulated mods and batteries that the Deeming Regs did not.

    Although I would like to see intentionally mislabeling batteries to be a crime.
    this is not just for vaping either.
     
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  9. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yep. Catching and prosecuting the black market THC carts will be an ongoing thing.
    Just like totally stopping teen smoking and vaping. Not gonna happen.
     
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  10. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    What would you like to see as a solution?
     
  11. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    What I would like to see as a soloution is something more like what the UK has going on hardware and juice. Aside from the 10 ml max bottle of juice size.
    Everything to be registered but reasonable approval methods.
     
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  12. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Everything already considered...
    We weren't getting out of this unscathed. Lessor of evils.
    It's not like all pods would be banned under this scenario. And those that are can be replicated.
     
  13. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Does that leave diyers able to diy?
     
  14. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    But this too will end in May as things are currently scheduled.
     
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  15. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yes. The only change, as currently portrayed, is fruity flavored pods. (pre - filled )
    as scheduled. Still doesn't make sense for the old deeming rules to not change with a more current guidance on flavor, in which they use to apply guidance to HW.

    Compared to what it could be, this would be more like a slap on the hand. Even JUUL could bottle their juice and sell it.
     
  16. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    I meant does the European method keep diyers able to diy
     
  17. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    sigh what about this whole war on vaping thing has made sense so far?
     
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  18. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    In the UK the only problem with DIY is max 10 ml bottles of 20 mg nic.
    However obtaining freebase nic is problematic in several countrys.
    And will very likely become very much more problematic in the US in 2020.
     
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  19. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Fuck that noise
     
  20. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Trump not following through with Azar's total flaver ban.
     
  21. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Noise? We may soon have a $5,000 tax on a liter of 100 mg nic. That is noise.
     
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  22. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    That is only because Trump is afraid of losing votes...
    NOT because it makes sense.
     
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  23. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Fuck that noise too...

    I’m resigned to the fact that SOMETHING will be done, Uncle Sam needs his piece of the pie... that whole you didn’t build that mentality.
    But, anything less than reasonable is completely asinine
     
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  24. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I cannot disagree with that.
    but our gummit is known for asinine things.
     
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  25. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I disagree with that.
    You imply he will lose fewer votes if he doesn't ban. Seems opposite to me since the majority wants the ban.
     
  26. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Your prerogative. but just watching his track on this. From promising a flavor ban to blaming Obama with not banning flavors, etc.
    then his backing off after the DC rally and the we vape we vote movements.
    I respectfully disagree with you. But you are still ok by me.
     
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  27. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Far as Im concerned if, we vape we vote, works... keep it up
     
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  28. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I think it is our most effective tool.
     
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  29. EdwinBetz

    EdwinBetz Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I agree with you, but what is done is done. Fortunately, I see more and more pod systems starting to offer both juice pods as well as refillable pods for use with their devices. There will still be pod devices available with refillable pods.

    Total flavor ban vs. the inconvenience of buying juice and filling a pod... I like the latter a lot more! Plus in the long run (as it stands now) it will potentially save a person money.

    Sent from my LGL722DL using Tapatalk
     
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  30. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I agree that we vape we vote makes a difference, just not the "only" difference.
    I'm not the only one that thought the door was left open to not ban flavors during that Sept meeting / press conference because at no time did Pres say flavors would be banned. HHS and FDA did. Pres least words were we'll see what happens.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-meeting-e-cigarettes/

    I think not committed enough to say it will be done, add advocacy, add wevape wevote, add more advocacy and a WH meeting, the CDC focusing more on illicit chemicals, the lower illness numbers...all play a part in coming up with a balance.

    What do those that using vaping to quit or not smoke, lose to no pre-filled fruity pods? We're not even talking all pods, just some. Other than convenience? Some devices? Before they are redesigned or come out with new (which is every other day now)? ppl were refilling Juul's before they had refillable.
     
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  31. EdwinBetz

    EdwinBetz Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Someone at work was paying me $1 a piece to refill his Juul pods for the longest time....lol

    Helped pay for my Fumytech Ogrim Mach Mod! I was happy...he was happy! WIN WIN![​IMG]

    Sent from my LGL722DL using Tapatalk
     
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  32. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I've said it before but I'll say it again. I started vaping in a country where vaping was banned. The govt seized a few things from me in the beginning but I quickly found ways around it. If I could do that here, it'll be much easier to do in the US.
     
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  33. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    And here we go: HHS just reiterated that all vaping products on the market today are ILLEGAL and the flavored pod ban goes in effect in 30 days

    On Aug. 8, 2016, all e-cigarettes and other ENDS products became subject to the FDA’s tobacco authorities, including the premarket authorization requirements in the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act). All e-cigarettes and other ENDS products on the market at that time needed to have authorization from the FDA to be legally marketed. However, as an exercise of its enforcement discretion, the agency had deferred enforcement of the premarket authorization requirements. To date, no ENDS products have been authorized by the FDA — meaning that all ENDS products currently on the market are considered illegally marketed and are subject to enforcement, at any time, in FDA’s discretion.

    Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register, the FDA intends to prioritize enforcement against these illegally marketed ENDS products by focusing on the following groups of products that do not have premarket authorization:

    • Any flavored, cartridge-based ENDS product (other than a tobacco- or menthol-flavored ENDS product);
    • All other ENDS products for which the manufacturer has failed to take (or is failing to take) adequate measures to prevent minors’ access; and
    • Any ENDS product that is targeted to minors or likely to promote use of ENDS by minors.

    Here is the whole text https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ed-flavored-cartridge-based-e-cigarettes.html
     
  34. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    And it hits ALL pods.

    Cartridge-based ENDS products are a type of ENDS product that consists of, includes, or involves a cartridge or pod that holds liquid that is to be aerosolized when the product is used. For purposes of this policy, a cartridge or pod is any small, enclosed unit (sealed or unsealed) designed to fit within or operate as part of an ENDS product.

    Pod people lament...
     
  35. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    This paragraph is an explanation, and emphasis on "For purposes of this policy..."

    Immediate policy(starting 30 days from publication to Federal Register) being Lucy's 3 bullet points:
    Pre-filled non tobacco/menthol pods/cartridges will be off the market and I suspect that would happen like flipping a switch.
    The other 2 points would probably take longer to implement but are of the first 3 things they are going to focus on.
     
  36. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    the way I read it enforcement starts in 30 days.
    and I really expect them to start enforcement on other post 8-8-2016 vape stuff much earlier than May 12.
     
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  37. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    "Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register"
    That link isn't the Register, is it? Might as well consider it 30 days since it wouldn't be far off.
    That may be, but since the FDA changed the date, wasn't there a ruling on allowing enough time for those submitting their PTMA? and May was set?

    "The guidance also states that, after May 12, 2020, the FDA intends to also prioritize enforcement against any ENDS products that continue to be sold and for which the manufacturers have not submitted a premarket application."
    Looks to me like after 5/12 they'll issue another release stating their priorities at that time.

    I see they have their usual negative mumbo jumbo in there with no real stats to prove it and plenty that prove otherwise.
     
  38. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    NO VAPE stuff not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016 has EVER been legal to be sold in the USA without FIRST having PMTA approval.

    The May 12 PMTA deadline is only for pre 8-8-2016 as is stated in the guidance.
     
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  39. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I know that, and they also stated that in this release. Also in this release is what I already quoted from their words, and is what I think will happen:
     
  40. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I think the key words are 'that continue to be sold'. They expect sales of non compliant vape stuff to stop by May 12.
    I expect a flurry of stop sale letters from the FDA soon.
    After May 12 the fines may begin.
     
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  41. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    The real question is will they continue to chip away at vaping prior to May 12 with small hammers or just wait and use one big one on May 12.
    They can do it either way.
     
  42. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I see what you mean. Notified to stop by 5/12 and if they don't fine or something - shut them down maybe.
    What I think is any notification would happen to those without app filed after 5/12 telling them the are not in compliance and maybe to cease/desist those products. Or most likely a release, like this one, aimed at all not in compliance.

    I don't think Trump will want to address much about vaping again till after the election. After 5/12 could be after 11/3
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  43. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    They are already well practiced at seizing websites. that could pretty much happen overnight after may 12.
    I agree that Trump would rather not deal with it before the election but will just blame it on Obama.
    He may well lose more votes than vapers if he delays the deeming regs. His evangelical base are largely anti vaping. And so are the rural supporters of his.
    Tough call.
    But I would not count on any delay.
     
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  44. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Has any vape item filed for a pmta?
     
  45. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    Broad strokes brother, more rural folks vape than you think
     
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  46. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I seen that about websites with illicit THC, a more hazardous situation. I'd hope they treat everyone, etail/bm the same with deeming.
    idk about blaming Obama for anything vaping.
    There's a lot more that want to see vaping go away than those that don't.
     
  47. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Per the Vaping Greek a a couple of months ago yes several, maybe 300? I forget but many more filed and were immediatley rejected becuse of not following the correct filing format.
    NONE have yet been approved.
     
  48. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    He already blamed Obama for not already doing a flavor ban :)

    and truthfully Obama had the option and the FDA pushed for it then.
     
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  49. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    :facepalm:
     
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  50. MC5

    MC5 Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Depending on what they mean by small, this could apply to most any topper, not just a pod.
     
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