Discussion in 'TattooVape' started by Bill TattooVape.com, Aug 9, 2017.
I have no problem with this.
I will not support underage vaping or smoking.
Sure some will do either or both. Some will also do illegal drugs and alcohol.
Just because some will do these things should we stop telling them no?
Agreed. We at Tattoo Vape have always advocated for adult use ONLY!
What bullshit...this is the same FDA that encourages the legal drugging of young boys to chemically alter them to fit into our cookie cutter school system and send the message their own natural male physicality is a problem....that passes out potentially dangerous drugs to teenagers on the most trivial of excuses, and has been flooding America with perscription pain killers to the extent we have a legal drug epidemic on our hands.....and now a drug that is at this point in time thought to be about as dangerous as a starbucks frappacino is what they choose to regulate....
But if minors are already smokers, they should have access to vaping, to enable them to quit the much more dangerous habit. I would never be in favor of minors vaping "just for kicks," but if they're smokers already who want to quit, they should NOT be told "sorry, you'll just have to tough it out" -- because they'll very likely just keep smoking.
What a great observation!
Under age vaping by prescription only?
Same as with alcohol during prohibition?
That would entail their parents getting involved, and they may not even know their child is a smoker. I started smoking at 13, and hid it from my parents till I was 15. They started buying me cigarettes because they were tired of me stealing theirs -- it would have been better if vaping had existed then, they could have bought me vapes instead -- or, maybe I would have tried vaping instead of smoking, and not gotten hooked on MAOIs at such a young and physically-immature age.
No. There is simply no good reason to make vaping off-limits to minors -- if it's 95% safer for us, it's 95% safer for them too, and it's a hell of a lot less addictive. Keeping it for adults only is total bullshit, just another ANTZ ploy -- of course they want minors to smoke, it's a whole new generation to bully and demonize!
Yesterday, @5150sick posted a link to an article, most of which is behind a paywall -- the link is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.13924/abstract?campaign=wolearlyview
In that article, in the first page which *is* viewable, there's this:
Experiments are impractical, and we may not be able to test properly the gateway effects via observational studies that simply adjust for confounders. Multivariate models cannot eliminate all the variance in propensity to smoke captured by the variable ‘vaping’ because of the proximity of these two behaviours. It may be difficult to prove that vaping precedes smoking when product use co-occurs and when, in fact, smoking usually precedes vaping. The gateway theory is not compatible with either (1) the decrease in smoking prevalence observed in adolescents in countries where vaping increased or (2) an increase in smoking among teenagers after age restrictions were imposed on e-cigarette purchases. A spurious gateway effect can be produced artificially by mathematical models in which a propensity to use substances is correlated with opportunities to use substances. Finally, neither nicotine medications nor smokeless tobacco produce gateway effects. Available data are compatible with a common liability model in which people who are liable to use nicotine are more likely to use both e-cigarettes and cigarettes.
Given this, it is completely asinine and counterproductive to make vaping adults-only -- in places where it's easy for minors to get vapes, smoking amongst youth has decreased drastically; in places that have taken draconian measures against youth vaping, youth smoking has gone back up to nearly pre-vaping levels.
Preventing minors from vaping is exactly the right way to foster a whole new generation of SMOKERS.
It is the law as is underage smoking.
As is illegal drug use, Alcohol use, etc.
A parent should be involved if their child is smoking.
A parent who cannot tell their child is smoking is not a very observant parent.
Just have to disagree with you on this one Andria.
You're talking about "shoulds".... which are all very well, but don't usually reflect REALITY. I'm talking about kids that smoke having the same opportunity to quit with vaping that addicted adult smokers have. It's even more heinous to deny that opportunity to kids than to deny it to adults, because smoking hurts them MORE.
You're right, kids SHOULDn't smoke. but the ones that do SHOULD NOT be told "You shouldn't smoke, so you can't vape. Just quit; tough shit."
Yeah it is rough that kids should have to learn responsibility for their actions.
Was leaving library a while ago and after clearing the door well I pulled out my CV and took a pull.
I overheard a teen who was smoking tell his buddies to "look there, I'll bet he has THC in that".
Many Kids R stupid, what can I say.
worst part is that I don't have any THC!
That comment makes no sense at all, total non sequitur.. Learning to have responsibility for making a stupid choice when you're too young to understand addiction, mortality, or even that actions sometimes have permanent consequences? Didn't we all have to do that? And for most of us, didn't we find it utterly impossible to quit and stay quit, until vaping? You're basically saying, "they were bad to smoke since they're too young, so they should be punished for it by being denied the easier way to quit." That might make sense to a puritan, but not to anybody sane and rational.
What will happen is that they'll keep smoking... just like we all did, until there was vaping. Then they'll be hooked as hard as we were. Oh yeah, that's a good way to handle it.
Umm that is why we have parents and laws.
To remove those stupid choices.
I say keep the laws in place and counsel children to neither smoke nor vape.
It's funny you should mention that...when I first started vaping,I went to a vape shop to buy some juice, and a woman and her 16 year old son came into the shop so the mother could buy juice for her son.....I started smoking at 15, and if vaping had been around and my parents could have gotten me directed into vaping instead of smoking I probablly would never have become a smoker.
Oh yeah, that works so well.
100% no. No law or religious rule prevents 100% of all of the undesired behavior.
That in no way means we should not try to prevent it.
Murder has been illegal for most of the existence of civilization.
Yet it still exists. Should we make it not illegal?
A bit extreme but same principal.
This could be a new distance record in leaps of logic Crommie, even as an allusion.
My parents, church, and Mrs Walton taught me that... j/s
What all you people seem to be saying is that Tobacco Harm Reduction is only for those who are legally old enough to smoke; since teens aren't legally old enough to smoke, then they deserve to be stuck with a foul addiction that they will play hell getting rid of, the longer they indulge in tobacco. So I guess you're also not in favor of providing sterile syringes to IV drug users, that they should just go ahead and spread AIDS and other blood-borne diseases around to each other until they all die of it -- it's what they deserve, right? And nobody should use condoms either, but "just say no."
Passing laws has never stopped anyone from doing anything, who was really determined to do it. Telling teens "you shouldn't" and "you musn't" has never worked, and never will, because teens are MADE to challenge boundaries; that's how they figure shit out, instead of just taking someone's word for it, as children do. Isn't it great that now instead of challenging the boundary of "no smoking till you're old enough," they now could vape... except for folks like you all, who'd rather they just stuck with smoking till they're 18, get 'em good and hooked!
So, if an underage kid starts smoking, which is ridiculously easy to do thanks to BT, FDA and the states not really giving a fuck if they do, then they should take responsibility for their "mistake". I absolutely agree with this. But if we're going to hold them to the standards we hold adults, then we should give them the chance to correct their mistake. That is what vaping can do for them. If they may the decision to vape in order to stop smoking then they have made the same rational decision as most of us here have made. We're praised for our efforts and determination to stop smoking, even if many don't understand vaping. But we can't do the same for kids?
If my kids started smoking, I'd be very disappointed. In an ideal world my kids would be perfect. But just as I disappointed my parents many times, I expect mine to do the same. My parents were extremely proud of the man I became, but I was a fucking terror as a teenager.
If my kids started smoking and then came to me asking for help to quit, I'm suppose to say to them, "Sorry, but the same government that provides you, stupidly and irresponsibly, with the opportunity to fuck up your body says that you can't have a proven fix for your problem. You are too young. Btw, they want you to go kill someone as soon as you're 18. But don't drink a beer, you're not responsible enough yet. But you do get to use automatic weapons in civilian populated areas, not to mention all kinds of shit that goes boom. That's quite the consolation prize, don't you think, son?"
We all do things we shouldn't at some point in our lives. Being human is not about being mistake free, but about being able to learn from our mistakes, being able to fix our problems and being able to teach and help others do the same. Governments don't give a flying fuck about these principles and any semi-intelligent adult should know this. When they remove our abilities to help ourselves, they're no different from any other asshole in the world who wants to take advantage of people.