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Feel free to hate me... [discussion/rant]

pulsevape

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I attempted to treat him with some level of even handedness in order to as the politicians say elevate the conversation,but....he descend into douchebaggery ,and brought it on himself.
 

statseeker

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We don't know any facts about this thing we call vaping yet. I'm pretty suspicious of anyone's intent at this point and with every city having 4 juice makers in it and countless DIY people in it, I fear nicotine will be the Achilles heel of the whole thing. No one knows the long term effects because the whole industry is less than 10 years old and the explosion of it has only happened in the last 4 years. I've been suspicious of the formaldehyde studies from the point that they said they pushed it to 5 volts and then cherry picked the formaldehyde bit and used it as a crutch to further the need for studies I don't even think they thought were warranted. So in this instance, Rayne is right. There are no real facts. Just anecdotes. Anecdotes that will doubtless lead to more scrutiny. Studies will lead to the need for more studies. If universities don't find the danger, Big Tobacco will just buy the nicotine labs. Gonna be hard to escape RJ Reynolds when they have the nicotine. And only certified labs will be able to dole it out or mix liquids. And those labs will be owned by? You guessed it, Big Tobacco. I can see this hundreds of miles away. I'm in Sacramento and I can see it all the way in LA. We better start lining John A. Congress' pockets. Right now the only people putting cash in there are anti-tobacco lobbyists and pro-tobacco business interests. And only both of those interests can win. Lol
 

pulsevape

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The politicans will push this to the point people start to grow their own tobacco.Then they will have to tax something else like sex and singing in order to raise money.
 

Zamazam

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Wow, the Op starts a thread titled "Feel Free To Hate Me" and does everything possible to make that happen. Whether the OP likes it or not, people have opinions and viewpoints and may not agree with the stated topics. That's a consequence of having free thought and the ability to agree or disagree with opinions and viewpoints.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Still waiting for the fart tax
 

pulsevape

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Oh it's coming,it's coming....after all cow farts are the single greatest threat to life on this planet.....gotta tax the apcolypse.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Briefly, IIRC it was mentioned on a P Busardo video, when he had an Evolv honcho on w/him. If you'd like I'll PM you w/details if/when I come across them.
please do!
just seeing this
 

f1r3b1rd

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Oh it's coming,it's coming....after all cow farts are the single greatest threat to life on this planet.....gotta tax the apcolypse.
well, im italian so im screwed
 

5150sick

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Wow, the Op starts a thread titled "Feel Free To Hate Me" and does everything possible to make that happen. Whether the OP likes it or not, people have opinions and viewpoints and may not agree with the stated topics. That's a consequence of having free thought and the ability to agree or disagree with opinions and viewpoints.

Then OP finally cries "I'm takin' my ball and going home"
 

efektt

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Does anybody belive we will get more than a sugeon general warning and taxes out of regulation?
 

Hey! it's just Ray...

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One last post on this bullshit derailed thread... because this one wins the lottery of not reading anything I've posted.

First off... This isn't my first thread. This is just the first one with anyone actually responding to it. Second. I'm not the one who needs to "take a bigger look" because there's very few people who've actually read anything I've written, and actually digested it before getting riled up and telling me how wrong I am. If you're implying I take a look at something else (like implying that I'm wrong in my stance, and I need to consider that), then you are definitely more passive aggressive than I am. Hats off.

Third. This is tame, but it's still a childish riot over the lamest disagreement I've ever seen on a forum; hands down, the dumbest shit I've seen to have caused a such a chaos when there was actually some value originally in it. And the only time I ever mention regulations is for getting scientific facts out, and knowing products are somewhat safer for very obvious reasons. I'm stating something, and not pushing an opinion... It's a well known fact that properly regulated industries produce more consistent products; which in turn means healthier products (like food, water, or in our case vaping supplies). That is not to be confused with loosely regulated industries, which is all anyone here seems to think is considered 'proper'... for some stupid reason.

Fourth. The personal interpretation of what regulations are (as a definition) should NOT be interrupting a debate over facts. When it is said that regulations would help benefit vapers by providing a better means of scientific facts, the emotional debate over regulations is a completely different topic... yet many people here seem to think that it's 100% related, and now I'm trying to control vaping... which is bone headed at the least. Sure, some have "asked" about what kind of regulations I'd throw in; but none of them were actually poised in a way that said, "I'm actually interested, and not looking for any reason to shoot it down and passive aggressively call you an idiot."

Fifth. My self righteous attitude is a mockery of you. Only someone who is on a high horse wouldn't see that. Get off yours.

Sixth. To think I want regulations because of any other reason than what I fucking stated is to assume my intentions aren't pure. The only reason I want to see some sort of regulation is because a lack of proper regulation leads to disastrous consequences. Would you prefer we let the entire medical industry go unregulated? You do realise there's a large amount of regulation there, right? If you're so against regulations, do you actually even want your hospitals to have a health and safety code? Where do you really want to draw a line here on regulations? My intentions are pure. I want regulations simply because it makes risks management easier, the science stays much more relevant, and new users can make informed decisions. I don't need someone to die from vaping, or need personal injury from vaping, to feel we need some regulation... just something basic, that many people forget about. Logic. And to answer those questions, no. Happy yet?

Seventh. My response is simply a means of explaining the simple fact that you really have no idea what I've been saying. Each time I make a point, a group of people feel like giving some knee-jerk reaction to what I say, and don't actually take into account that there might be some merit to dropping the fucking pro-vape train, and standing entirely on the sideline for a minute. Forget whether you vape, and what it's done for you. If you can't be an objective person, your opinion on a topic is pretty narrow-minded. The more I insert objectivity, and ask more questions, the snarkier the remarks, or the more it becomes subjective... which I've been saying we need to get rid of... since the first post.

Eight. I'm officially finished with this post. Done. Feel free to make another "are you brave enough" post, but I just don't care if you guys actually have anything worth saying now. I don't need to hear about how corrupt the government is, and why I need to let go of my side on regulations (or be told I need to explain it). If I wanted that shit, I'd go on a conspiracy theorist forum. Not to mention, I also am not asking anyone to do anything... outside of professing opinions as facts. I guess that is way too much to ask people in the 21st century. What a fucking depressing thing this thread has become. If this is the mentality of the users here, I obviously fucked up when choosing a forum to join.

Fuck this. I'm out. Peace. Enjoy your know-it-all attitudes. I just wanted a little more honesty in the community... fucking hell.
You have your shit set up with a voice activated keyboard?
I think I can do it on this Ipad, still thinking about it, I don't know
 

pulsevape

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Does anybody belive we will get more than a sugeon general warning and taxes out of regulation?
If big tobacco is able to use political pull to drive up the price of regultaion to the point of driving all the other juice makers out of bussiness.....they'll put whatever they want in it.....remember how the tobacco companies got caught actually putting more nicotine in their cigs to make them more addictive.
 

Hey! it's just Ray...

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How can we trust any gov regulation? They regulated ciggs, tested them, know they kill us, and still allow us to buy them! Does this guy want me to right a sugeon general warning on his ejuice bottle?
Yeah no shit huh? They blew it! Fuck'em!

If wasn't for 'our' government we would even have vapers or this forum.
 

cindycated

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Ok last one.....LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

tumblr_n5dnm6fnmm1rpu8e5o1_500_zpsi3vzrqtd.png
Whiskey, you crack me up with your gifs! :D
 

ColeGirl1

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"Feel free to hate me... rant"
Self-fulfilled prophesy.
I think you got what you came for.
 

KKen

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One last post on this bullshit derailed thread... because this one wins the lottery of not reading anything I've posted.

First off... This isn't my first thread. This is just the first one with anyone actually responding to it. Second. I'm not the one who needs to "take a bigger look" because there's very few people who've actually read anything I've written, and actually digested it before getting riled up and telling me how wrong I am. If you're implying I take a look at something else (like implying that I'm wrong in my stance, and I need to consider that), then you are definitely more passive aggressive than I am. Hats off.

Third. This is tame, but it's still a childish riot over the lamest disagreement I've ever seen on a forum; hands down, the dumbest shit I've seen to have caused a such a chaos when there was actually some value originally in it. And the only time I ever mention regulations is for getting scientific facts out, and knowing products are somewhat safer for very obvious reasons. I'm stating something, and not pushing an opinion... It's a well known fact that properly regulated industries produce more consistent products; which in turn means healthier products (like food, water, or in our case vaping supplies). That is not to be confused with loosely regulated industries, which is all anyone here seems to think is considered 'proper'... for some stupid reason.

Fourth. The personal interpretation of what regulations are (as a definition) should NOT be interrupting a debate over facts. When it is said that regulations would help benefit vapers by providing a better means of scientific facts, the emotional debate over regulations is a completely different topic... yet many people here seem to think that it's 100% related, and now I'm trying to control vaping... which is bone headed at the least. Sure, some have "asked" about what kind of regulations I'd throw in; but none of them were actually poised in a way that said, "I'm actually interested, and not looking for any reason to shoot it down and passive aggressively call you an idiot."

Fifth. My self righteous attitude is a mockery of you. Only someone who is on a high horse wouldn't see that. Get off yours.

Sixth. To think I want regulations because of any other reason than what I fucking stated is to assume my intentions aren't pure. The only reason I want to see some sort of regulation is because a lack of proper regulation leads to disastrous consequences. Would you prefer we let the entire medical industry go unregulated? You do realise there's a large amount of regulation there, right? If you're so against regulations, do you actually even want your hospitals to have a health and safety code? Where do you really want to draw a line here on regulations? My intentions are pure. I want regulations simply because it makes risks management easier, the science stays much more relevant, and new users can make informed decisions. I don't need someone to die from vaping, or need personal injury from vaping, to feel we need some regulation... just something basic, that many people forget about. Logic. And to answer those questions, no. Happy yet?

Seventh. My response is simply a means of explaining the simple fact that you really have no idea what I've been saying. Each time I make a point, a group of people feel like giving some knee-jerk reaction to what I say, and don't actually take into account that there might be some merit to dropping the fucking pro-vape train, and standing entirely on the sideline for a minute. Forget whether you vape, and what it's done for you. If you can't be an objective person, your opinion on a topic is pretty narrow-minded. The more I insert objectivity, and ask more questions, the snarkier the remarks, or the more it becomes subjective... which I've been saying we need to get rid of... since the first post.

Eight. I'm officially finished with this post. Done. Feel free to make another "are you brave enough" post, but I just don't care if you guys actually have anything worth saying now. I don't need to hear about how corrupt the government is, and why I need to let go of my side on regulations (or be told I need to explain it). If I wanted that shit, I'd go on a conspiracy theorist forum. Not to mention, I also am not asking anyone to do anything... outside of professing opinions as facts. I guess that is way too much to ask people in the 21st century. What a fucking depressing thing this thread has become. If this is the mentality of the users here, I obviously fucked up when choosing a forum to join.

Fuck this. I'm out. Peace. Enjoy your know-it-all attitudes. I just wanted a little more honesty in the community... fucking hell.

350x700px-LL-e7910f19_3nEDr.gif





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Spike64

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The guy flounces not once, but twice, on his own thread which was clearly designed to get the types of responses he received. Oh, the horror of feigned righteous indignation.....LMAO....
 

RebelGolfer72

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Wow....just wow....
Everybody pretty much covered everything else I could possibly say to the original post.
 

cobalt327

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I think there's one thing we can all agree on- there will be restrictive legislation and taxation on vaping, likely sooner rather than later. It's just a matter of time, and you can bet your last drip tip that there are government lawyers hard at it as we speak.

Supposedly the reason for rushing the DNA 40 TP device to market was to circumvent some sort of pending or inevitable legislation having to do with vaping safety. I wasn't able to find out exactly what this legislation was, whether it was on the state or federal level or if the story was even true or just a smokescreen to cover the shortcomings of the early run of DNA 40 boards. But the point is, when this first broke no one seemed surprised by the idea of lawmakers mucking around w/vapers and vaping in general.
Would love to know more about that...not in here,this is not the place. But my biggest part of scorn for evolv is they knew it wasn't ready for show time; yet, still neglected to give it user upgradeability.
Had forgotten about this.

Here's a link to an e c f thread post where the pending legislation is mentioned. Search the thread for more (if using the search function, select thread, not forum to get results from that thread).

Post #4290
 
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dafsmith1000

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Hi everyone, this is my first post.

First thank you all! I really can't believe vaping has replaced my smoking habit. It's freakin awesome. The forum has helped me so much in keeping my vaping journey going. I honestly believe that the support on this board and everywhere in the vaping community has saved my life.

It seems to me that people have been vaping quite a few years now, with no serious effects reported. Time will tell, however at this time it's safer than cigarettes no question. Any activity we partake in comes with risk, it's the relative risk that's important. All anyone can do is use the best information available to them at the time.


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Whiskey

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Hello there dafsmith, nice to meet you, have you seen our new member introductions area?
 

dafsmith1000

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I haven't gone over they're yet so much to read! Thanks I'll introduce myself.


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The Vape Crusader

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If this has been posted already, I apologize. Didn't want to comb through 178 posts...

The OP is just flat wrong. In fact, there's research from within his own country.

http://www.dailydot.com/technology/vaping-safer-than-smoking-study/

Yes, there is scientific evidence. There really is no such thing as "scientific proof," because science is guided by trends and repeatability of studies. This is what angers many Americans about climate change, because 97% of studies show our world getting hotter and pointing the finger at humans as a direct cause, but many have a vested interest in using the 3% to guide policymaking... smh.

Anyway, even just basic biochemical logic dictates that vaping is safer than smoking. Would you rather put 70+ known carcinogens and chemicals designed to feed nicotine addiction (and god knows what else) in your body, or two common food additives that can be ingested safely, let alone vaped. Nicotine is the common thread, but last I checked, you can't really choose your nicotine level with cigarettes beyond lights, ultra lights, etc. I'm at 1.5 mg/mL now, and even have a few 0's lying around. I hope to be zero nic altogether very soon.

So while the OP is borne from genuine concern, the assertions are largely not well supported. Vape shops around here are not allowed to tell you that vaping is a smoking cessation aid... because it's not approved as such. But we have freedom to try things, and see how they work. Like many ex smokers, I no longer smell like shit, I have great lungs for hockey (god is smoking and sports a terrible combination), and my wife doesn't hate me.

Vape on, world.
 

spookiewon

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Another great question I have comes from the people who rebuild. To prevent certain health risks, should we be wearing gloves when wicking, and storing our cotton in sterilised bags? What about the bottles we use to hold juice? Should be be 100% certain they're sterile, and be extremely careful about what the tips come into contact with? What about germs? Sure, in theory, the heat can pretty much sterilise everything before we inhale... But what temperature do we need to reach before that happens, and how can we be sure? The vicious cycle of questions does not end lol.

It bothers me that all of this goes unasked by most, and these products get purported as "safe" or "safer than tobacco" without any comprehensive research performed. It seems to be just a one-track method, in order to prove something, and then it stops.

Well, the temperatures at which ecigs work are more than adequate to kill bacteria or virii, and additionally, PG is antibacterial. It's sometimes used in hospitals to kill germs in HVAC systems. PG based liquids don't support bacterial growth. So, the answer to those particular questions is, no, we don't need to sterilize that stuff. If we did, we'd do it at considerably lower temps than the coils heat your e-liquid to.

The temperature we're told we need to heat food to to kill bacteria in food is ~160 degrees Fahrenheit. This has been studied extensively since longer than you've been alive.
 

spookiewon

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If this has been posted already, I apologize. Didn't want to comb through 178 posts...

The OP is just flat wrong. In fact, there's research from within his own country.

http://www.dailydot.com/technology/vaping-safer-than-smoking-study/

Yes, there is scientific evidence. There really is no such thing as "scientific proof," because science is guided by trends and repeatability of studies. This is what angers many Americans about climate change, because 97% of studies show our world getting hotter and pointing the finger at humans as a direct cause, but many have a vested interest in using the 3% to guide policymaking... smh.

Anyway, even just basic biochemical logic dictates that vaping is safer than smoking. Would you rather put 70+ known carcinogens and chemicals designed to feed nicotine addiction (and god knows what else) in your body, or two common food additives that can be ingested safely, let alone vaped. Nicotine is the common thread, but last I checked, you can't really choose your nicotine level with cigarettes beyond lights, ultra lights, etc. I'm at 1.5 mg/mL now, and even have a few 0's lying around. I hope to be zero nic altogether very soon.

So while the OP is borne from genuine concern, the assertions are largely not well supported. Vape shops around here are not allowed to tell you that vaping is a smoking cessation aid... because it's not approved as such. But we have freedom to try things, and see how they work. Like many ex smokers, I no longer smell like shit, I have great lungs for hockey (god is smoking and sports a terrible combination), and my wife doesn't hate me.

Vape on, world.

The common thread, nicotine, isn't particularly harmful, either. About as harmful as caffeine. So I see no reason to feel like it's a problem, and we should be about as concerned about eliminating it from our lives as caffeine. If it's not a goal to quit caffeinated coffee, why would getting to 0mg juice be a goal? I don't have any plan to give up either vaping or reduce my nicotine.
 

The Vape Crusader

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The common thread, nicotine, isn't particularly harmful, either. About as harmful as caffeine. So I see no reason to feel like it's a problem, and we should be about as concerned about eliminating it from our lives as caffeine. If it's not a goal to quit caffeinated coffee, why would getting to 0mg juice be a goal? I don't have any plan to give up either vaping or reduce my nicotine.

Well, yes, I agree, the two chemicals are about on par with eachother. After all, they're both stimulants. But like caffeine, nicotine alone has both medical benefits and risks. Heart patients are often told to avoid caffeine, and likewise, they shouldn't smoke or use e-cigs. Going back to the biochemical logic, prolonged use of a vasoconstrictor like caffeine or nicotine could advance the atherosclerotic process. Not that I'm a heart patient, but I sure as heck don't want to be one 20 years from now. It's all about risk factors.
 

DanTheBassistMan

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This is a very interesting post. I myself have experienced how much better my lungs feel once I went to vaping from cigarettes, but that doesn't necessarily prove that it's better. The thing is, our lungs are only meant to use air. The only way alveolar gas exchange can function efficiently is with the inhalation of natural air into our lungs. My paramedic instructer put it well. I asked him how he feels about the health effects of vaping, and he pointed at the white board showing the composition of air, and said "well it's not this." He however did tell me he hasn't read much into vaping. He has absolutely no problem with it.
 

vuJim

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...
It's a well known fact that properly regulated industries produce more consistent products; which in turn means healthier products ..
...
I want regulations simply because it makes risks management easier, the science stays much more relevant, and new users can make informed decisions.
...
The above is not necessarily true. Such regulation would almost certainly fall under the FDA, and their track record is somewhat spotty, to say the least. I hardly need to post examples, do I? The same can be said of nearly all, if not all, U.S. regulatory agencies.

OTOH: U.S. industry generally has an even worse record, when it comes to self-policing, and don't even get me started on the behaviour of companies in a certain large country in Asia.

So what is the best solution for consumers? Don't know, but asserting regulation by some-or-another U.S. regulatory agency would ensure improvement strikes me as somewhat naive.

[Note: Edited for clarification.]
 
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Deucesjack

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The above is not necessarily true. Such regulation would almost certainly fall under the FDA, and their track record is somewhat spotty, to say the least. I hardly need to post examples, do I? The same can be said of nearly all, if not all, U.S. regulatory agencies.

OTOH: U.S. industry generally has an even worse record, when it comes to self-policing, and don't even get me started on the behaviour of companies in a certain large country in Asia.

So what is the best solution for consumers? Don't know, but asserting regulation by some-or-another U.S. regulatory agency is it strikes me as somewhat naive.
To say that regulated industries are better for the consumer is an absolutely ludicrous statement. There are countless example throughout history that prove any type of government involvement is not good for the consumer. Yes there needs to be basic regulations to insure the public's safety but most of them are already in place. In my 46 years on this earth it has been my experience that the least the government is involved in any business the better off the consumer is. Government is equivalent to an anti sales department. Whatever they touch they screw up. I am a big boy and I am more than capable of making my own decisions based on the facts available to me. I do not need the government to save me from my stupid self. Yes I am a proud Capitalist and I despise having a government that thinks they know what is best for me.
 

stevegmu

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How can we trust any gov regulation? They regulated ciggs, tested them, know they kill us, and still allow us to buy them! Does this guy want me to right a sugeon general warning on his ejuice bottle?

This is why e-cigs, mods, tanks and e-liquid won't be banned; they allow far, far worse things...
 

stevegmu

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To say that regulated industries are better for the consumer is an absolutely ludicrous statement. There are countless example throughout history that prove any type of government involvement is not good for the consumer. Yes there needs to be basic regulations to insure the public's safety but most of them are already in place. In my 46 years on this earth it has been my experience that the least the government is involved in any business the better off the consumer is. Government is equivalent to an anti sales department. Whatever they touch they screw up. I am a big boy and I am more than capable of making my own decisions based on the facts available to me. I do not need the government to save me from my stupid self. Yes I am a proud Capitalist and I despise having a government that thinks they know what is best for me.

I'd hate to see how houses would be made without building codes, or cars, or food...
 

stevegmu

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They have to regulate it and deem it a sin to get the taxes. It is all related and they all work together for a common goal.

Really? How have state taxes passed then? How about city and county e-liquid taxes? The FDA has nothing to do with taxes.
 

Deucesjack

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I'd hate to see how houses would be made without building codes, or cars, or food...
Obviously you did not read my entire post. I said basic regulation to assure public safety is fine when needed. Getting involved in business for the sole purpose of regulating it when there is no need for it is Socialism. The government in almost every instance including the building of homes goes shit crazy over board with ridiculous rules and regulations that normally have nothing to do with reality. Talk to any contractor, builder, or architect. I'm sure they can point out many instances just off the top of their heads where they are extremely over regulated. It hurts business, drives up prices, drives down hiring, and is bad for the consumer.
 

stevegmu

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Obviously you did not read my entire post. I said basic regulation to assure public safety is fine when needed. Getting involved in business for the sole purpose of regulating it when there is no need for it is Socialism. The government in almost every instance including the building of homes goes shit crazy over board with ridiculous rules and regulations that normally have nothing to do with reality. Talk to any contractor, builder, or architect. I'm sure they can point out many instances just off the top of their heads where they are extremely over regulated. It hurts business, drives up prices, drives down hiring, and is bad for the consumer.

What isn't regulated in the US? You think a new industry in the US will go on non regulated forever? Of course there is a need for some regulation. E-liquid is inhaled. Even air is regulated. Not everyone in business has the best interests of their customers in mind. That's why there is regulation. Without shady people there would be no need.
If a contractor can't meet minimum code they shouldn't be in business, but I know most are just shady and would rather take shortcuts and pocket the difference...
 

Deucesjack

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What isn't regulated in the US? You think a new industry in the US will go on non regulated forever? Of course there is a need for some regulation. E-liquid is inhaled. Even air is regulated. Not everyone in business has the best interests of their customers in mind. That's why there is regulation. Without shady people there would be no need.
If a contractor can't meet minimum code they shouldn't be in business, but I know most are just shady and would rather take shortcuts and pocket the difference...
Therein lies the problem Steve. There never is a minimum code. Things just keeped getting piled onto with government red tape bullshit. You're probably one those people that thinks the country is just fine with a national debt of 19 trillion and climbing. History has taught us that the free market is the best regulator in the world. Take a look at the vaping industry. Things are dirt cheap because there is plenty of competition. Regulate this industry and you have less product, less competition, less choices and higher prices. Again all bad for the consumer. It really is simple economics 101.
 

Time

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What isn't regulated in the US? You think a new industry in the US will go on non regulated forever? Of course there is a need for some regulation. E-liquid is inhaled. Even air is regulated. Not everyone in business has the best interests of their customers in mind. That's why there is regulation. Without shady people there would be no need.
If a contractor can't meet minimum code they shouldn't be in business, but I know most are just shady and would rather take shortcuts and pocket the difference...

We get it, you're too dumb to make sure your house is built right, your vape doesn't have arsenic in it, your air doesn't have propane in it and your bath water doesn't get so hot it burns your twat. Government needs to do that for you. :rolleyes:
 

stevegmu

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Therein lies the problem Steve. There never is a minimum code. Things just keeped getting piled onto with government red tape bullshit. You're probably one those people that thinks the country is just fine with a national debt of 19 trillion and climbing. History has taught us that the free market is the best regulator in the world. Take a look at the vaping industry. Things are dirt cheap because there is plenty of competition. Regulate this industry and you have less product, less competition, less choices and higher prices. Again all bad for the consumer. It really is simple economics 101.

I strongly believe in protectionist tariffs, which would make that $50 China box mod $300...
I don't understand how the vape industry is so special some think it should be exempt from regulation, or even taxes. That's simply not reality.
Name a society which operates in the free market? Regulation exists in the freest of developed nations on Earth, CR...
 

stevegmu

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We get it, you're too dumb to make sure your house is built right, your vape doesn't have arsenic in it, your air doesn't have propane in it and your bath water doesn't get so hot it burns your twat. Government needs to do that for you. :rolleyes:

When calling someone dumb, it is wise to not only use proper grammar, but perhaps expand on one's vocabulary; else one comes off as an ignorant, childish moron...
 

Deucesjack

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I strongly believe in protectionist tariffs, which would make that $50 China box mod $300...
I don't understand how the vape industry is so special some think it should be exempt from regulation, or even taxes. That's simply not reality.
Name a society which operates in the free market? Regulation exists in the freest of developed nations on Earth, CR...
We used to and we experienced exponential growth. Then our government got to big and involved in every waking part of our lives and here we are today in a total fucking mess. For all you vapers out there that don't want regulation you need to look at who you're voting for. In general the democratic party is the tax, spend, regulate and control party. Educate yourselves.
 

Time

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Name a society which operates in the free market? Regulation exists in the freest of developed nations on Earth, CR...

And how is that working out?

No more deaths in the world? LOL.

Nope, the only country that once followed a free market abandoned it years ago and now it's a shit hole. More regulation has proven to lead to less content, not more.
 

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