Feeling like garbage

Discussion in 'Vaping Health Related' started by RionDunn, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    I was thinking that the Nautalis X tank was producing to much vapor for my lungs or somethings. I'll stick with the pen for a bit and see what happens.


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  2. Jimi D

    Jimi D Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Sure sounds like it. I started direct lung inhaling years after I smoked.
     
  3. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    Also, I thought I would bring this to everyone's attention. I have been living with an anxiety disorder for the last 10 years. The doctors have tried repeatedly to have me on some anti-anxiety and anti depressant medication. I absolutely refuse. So I thought maybe this could have some roll in my vaping experience. Quitting cigarettes and moving to vaping, dealing with the lack and fluctuation of nicotine, I would imagine my body is freaking out right now. However, the cigs were starting to cause anxiety attacks almost every cig I had, especially the first one of the day. It was horrible.


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  4. Jimi D

    Jimi D Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Good choice on the meds refusal. My wife nearly died on those damned things. She's doing wonderfully without anything today. Be well Sir :)
     
  5. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Quitting cigarettes can cause a lot of anxiety in its own right -- just the thought of it always did for me, in years past. Which is one reason why I didn't even consider quitting smoking, when I started vaping; I just wanted something I could use indoors, so I could stop freezing my ass off on the porch.

    Nicotine can cause anxiety, or it can relieve it; the real key, I think, is the exactly-right dose for that particular brain. WTA is also a good thing for anxiety and depression, as well as intense cigarette cravings, but it really might be a case of, needing for your lungs to heal a bit from smoking; I wouldn't necessarily recommend WTA to anyone with the problems you've suffered so far.

    I've taken pharmaceuticals for depression and anxiety (Effexor is excellent for both), but the withdrawal from those kinds of drugs makes cigarette withdrawal feel like a picnic; even withdrawing from WTA can be quite difficult; for me, a steady systematic weaning from WTA required 15 months.

    I would only recommend WTA to someone who has already fully stopped smoking, who is suffering terribly with intense cravings, and/or profound depression, and/or intense anxiety. Because it's basically the most addictive substances in cigarettes, just minus the toxins of ammonia and carbon monoxide and other pyrolytic compounds.

    One thing I've come to understand that causes my lungs problems is simply that vapor is moist; late-summer humidity always plays hell with my asthma, and I think the moisture of vapor has a similar effect. For me, the best thing is to vape as little as possible, producing as little vapor as I can possibly be satisfied with. Perhaps a higher nicotine level could allow you to vape less, yet remain satisfied. And I do think that trying a higher PG level is definitely worth a try.

    Andria
     
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  6. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    Hey thanks! It's great to hear when people are defeating some disorders naturally!


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  7. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    So I've tried some outrageous things over the last week. And I think I've found something that has worked! I have $40 AIO vape pen and I went and bought 1.5 mg tobacco flavour juice made by Canada Ejuice. I haven't felt really any issue with lungs feeling too too heavy as the levels are 70 pg 30 VG. Also I believe the very low amount of nicotine is helping as well. The coil is sub ohm at 0.6 so it produces enough vapour. I really wish my Nautilus would work for me though. I'm just afraid to try it with this juice and it cause another reaction.


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  8. platguy4

    platguy4 New Member

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    Hi everyone, I'm also new to the forum, and I also quit smoking after 20 years and had a horrible time. However, my reasons were as much professional as personal. I have a PhD in dentistry, worked for a time in Manchester's' (UK) Institute for population health, and now lecture in Ireland in health policy. I hated the idea that I would be in my mid thirties and still would not have kicked the habit, as my colleagues wondered why an earth I would do such a thing to my own body, when advising other people to stop.

    We tell patients everyday that they should give up smoking. It is seen as a kind of personal deficiency. The person who smokes is weak, stuck to an addiction and does not have the personal capabilities to wake up to their own misfortune. So I decided to quit, not wanting to be part of that 'out crowd' anymore, as my own health deteriorated.

    It was not fun, and I thought the e-cig was a great idea, and I still think it is. But as the poster suggests, it is not an easy ride - with or without e-cigs. I had panic attacks, anxiety, dizziness, constant flushes and even a mild seizure. My own dive towards 18mg juice was most definitely the wrong move! Because there is so little evidence out there, nobody really knows exactly how sensitive people are to PG - the doses are high in vaping compared to other medical uses, how people will react to the flavouring chemicals, or how smoking levels should equate to vaping levels. For example, I smoked 20-30 a day, and 18mg juice made me quite ill.

    The key is finding what is right for you and I would suggest starting with a low nic - probably 3 or 6mg, and at least a 50/50 mix to test your tolerance to how new chemicals will react with your body. When quitting tobacco you are removing over 1000 chemicals from your bloodstream and your body will react. It would be lovely to reach for a high nic vape pen to ease the cravings and other side effects, but that is a false economy. You will inevitably experience side effects from quitting smoking, and while vaping is clearly (in my view) the most effective NSA out there, there is the temptation to dive in too quickly and too fast.

    Start low (nic level) and be patient. When quitting, your body is trying to adapt to a whole new regime of chemical balance - thousands are slowly leaving the system, and vaping introduces some new ones. Vaping is not a cure, it is a very effective alternative and I believe it is extremely helpful, but only when taken in measure. Don't start trying to blow clouds when you first start, approach it like you would any other lifestyle alternative. Watch, observe and try and use your best judgement and not let your cravings get the better of you.

    I hope this has helped. After 4 months I now have found my balance with a couple of mods that I vape happily on at 3mg or 6mg levels. Good luck!

    Here are a couple of studies that may be useful
    http://www.oralhealthgroup.com/feat...nic-cigarettes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

    Nick
     
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  9. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Great post -- speaking as one who's successfully recovered from both alcohol and white-powder drugs, I can tell you that it's certainly not a matter of "weakness" -- if being "strong" was a factor, I'd have given up cigarettes a very long time ago.

    And I was another who smoked 20-25 cigs a day, but even 12mg was much too strong for me; I had to start with 6mg, and gradually ease up to 10mg after the cigarettes were gone. At first, that was great, but after I had a month-long relapse to dual use, I had to also add WTA to my vape, to get rid of the godawful cravings -- and it took me 15 months to wean off WTA, which tells me a great deal about why I never could quit smoking before, using only nicotine -- I never have been really "addicted" to nicotine, but to the other alkaloids that are psychoactive.

    But I thank god that high levels of PG doesn't cause me any problems, because I can't deal with anymore than about 15% VG, and still be able to breathe.

    Andria
     
  10. InformedConsumer

    InformedConsumer New Member

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    Don't forget about the chemicals used for flavoring. Many are as bad or worse then Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, or Acetoin. Chemical like Butyric Acid, Furfural, Acetic Acid, <beta>-Pinene, Benzaldehyde to name a few have many health hazards like causes severe skin burns and eye damage, causes serious eye damage, dangerous aspiration hazards, may cause allergy or asthma symptoms or breathing difficulties if inhaled. Since this information is not available to the general consumer, we are at risk!
     
  11. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Are you a vaper?
     
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  12. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Where did you read these studies, that these are all in inhalation risks, and as they are inhaled with vaping?
     
  13. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Hmm... not really. A) the info is available on the OSHA website, for anyone who cares to look it up -- if there's any hazard, OSHA describes it. And B) the type of hazards that OSHA describes are when those chemicals are in non-dilute, manufacturer-level strengths -- like butyric acid. In pure form, yes, it probably would be very bad news. In the EXTREMELY dilute form it's used in flavors and then used in vaping... not really. And acetic acid is vinegar. No one is going to huff up enough of it to be dangerous, because it tastes/smells HORRIBLE! (ditto for butyric acid -- it tastes kinda like stomach acid... y'know, vomit?).

    The dose makes the poison, and you really shouldn't be spreading alarmist crap about something that carries little if any actual risk.

    Andria
    The MORE-Informed Consumer
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  14. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Seems kind of odd with over 10 million users worldwide you rarely hear reports of any of the stuff you just mentioned.

    Also seems as if science is pointing toward vaping reversing the harms that smoking has caused:

    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-015-0298-3

    https://nicotinepolicy.net/riccardo-polosa/6041-new-study-on-asthma-and-vaping-long-term-benefits

    I'm not suggesting anyone take up vaping as a fun new hobby but it should be compared to what it is displacing.
    That would be the most harmful nicotine delivery system ever invented - the tobacco cigarette.
     
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  15. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    Wow that's awesome Nick. Thanks so much for posting this! Seizures are an interesting result. What did they feel like? Can you describe this mild seizure? The reason I ask is because I've noticed a couple of times something weird that happens to me, the only way I can describe it ( this is going to sound crazy) but like a small explosion in my head that makes me feel very odd for a matter of seconds. I've wondered what this is as I deal with a very heavy anxiety issue every day I thought maybe it was anxiety doing its weird thing to me.


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  16. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    That sounds a real lot like what I experienced when I was withdrawing from Effexor -- like a full-brain/full-body ZZZZZTT! like someone plugged my brain straight into household current. Could be that the withdrawal from the MAOIs in tobacco are causing a similar thing for you, since MAOIs and SSRIs act in similar ways in the brain.

    You might consider trying some WTA, if that doesn't ease up.
     
  17. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    What's WTA?


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  18. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Whole tobacco alkaloids -- I have an article about it at my site -> http://angryvaper.crypticsites.com/about-wta

    That stuff is the only thing that finally enabled me to quit smoking and stay quit.

    Andria
     
  19. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Do you happen to take any SSRI type anti depressants and Benzos?

    The reason I ask is because about 12 years ago I ended up in a place where I could no longer get the medications I was taking (Effexor XR and Clonazepam) and I felt that same feeling you just described.

    It was kind of like my head was swelling up and going to pop like a balloon.

    I never took SSRI's again because they make me not care about anything.
    Also I like myself and am in a good place in my life.
    people who are depressed generally do not like themselves and are in a bad place in their life.
     
  20. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    Nope, I have never taken any medication for the anxiety as I refuse to and I am not depressed. Well other than just regular life depression caused by a bad day.


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  21. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I suggest WTA to anyone who has tried vaping more than once and failed.
    It's usually either that or they are mouth to lung vapers who some dipshit at a vape shop talked them into a cloud chasing setup.

    Just because I like no throat hit, no restricted airflow and chucking clouds of strawberry milkshake eliquid at 0.15 ohms doesn't mean you will like vaping that way.
     
  22. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Heh, no shit. I love the hell out of my sweet creamy strawberry & cream, but I also love throat hit and my super-tight-draw Achilles, because I don't think that oral urge will ever translate to wanting to huff. :D I only huff my asthma inhalers. :giggle:

    Andria
     
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  23. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    You'd be surprised at what some of these quacks threw at you back in the late 90's for having as little as a bad day.

    To a psychiatrist at the turn of the century having a bad day either made you depressed, bi-polar, or schizoaffective.

    The drug companies had them believing that they needed to shower you in drugs that usually ended up causing the disorders they were trying to "cure" all along.
     
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  24. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Y'know, in some thread recently, I floated the opinion that having smoked ultra-lights for 20+ yrs was a big reason for needing WTA; I wasn't getting much nicotine in those ultra-lights, but the full complement of alkaloids -- so I had to start at 6mg, with a cigalike! But after that appendectomy/relapse, I needed WTA to make the awful cravings take a hike. @Rossum ventured the opinion that perhaps BT actually increases the amount of the MAOIs, to keep ultra-light smokers highly addicted, despite the low nicotine levels; I think he may be onto something there.

    Andria
     
  25. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    For sure! I'm actually looking into ********** for my anxiety in which I am sure it will assist with the quitting smoking. I have been having such a difficult time with vaping. I'm on a 1.5 mg with a vape pen and .5 ohm coil. It seems to work fine but then I want more of a hit, I up the nic content and then it becomes to much. I also have tried to put the juice in my Natilus X tank and they make me feel like my chest is crushed. Sometimes i get sharp pains in my chest and feel like I'm pretty light headed. I went to the doctor and their tests came out better than fine. Clear lungs, heart rate perfect and blood pressure perfect. This can't be caused by quitting cigarettes can it?


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  26. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    how long since you last smoked?

    Andria
     
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  27. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    You may find the answer you are looking for here:

    https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=freebasing+nicotine&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
     
  28. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    It has been 42 days since I have had a cig.


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  29. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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  30. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    So 6wks.... hmmm.... I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of your various discomforts are from quitting smoking; your brain is trying to find anything at all it can fabricate or send you, to make you give it what it wants. Your lungs probably dunno whether to shit or go blind, after years/(decades?) of smoke, then suddenly none. Ditto that for your entire body.

    Some though, I think is just you haven't yet found just the right setup for your needs and wants. The whole first year I vaped, I was trying this and that and the other thing, working out just what I wanted most from a vape, and trying to find it. When I found the Achilles RDA, I felt like I'd achieved nirvana! :giggle:

    Andria
     
  31. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I agree, It took years of mod/atty/eliquid setups before I found a few combos that worked perfectly.
    The thing with me is my combo's constantly change.
    I think I have found a winner in the Boreas RTA and use my RDAs when i'm at home and want to tinker or do something different.
    I was using Crown tanks but found it to be a bad idea to keep buying coils when I already knew how to rebuild.
    With the FDA cracking down I can see a small company with less than a dozen products like Uwell closing up shop.
    I will always be able to find 316 SS wire and cotton.
     
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  32. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I just got sick and damn tired of waiting on USPS to BRING ME MAH DAMN COILS AND JUICE! :giggle: So I learned to make my own. :)

    Andria
     
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  33. RionDunn

    RionDunn New Member

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    Okay so this is the issue. The main thing that bothers me about my vaping experience is that I have a heavy chest, with chest pains, the heaviness is bad enough that it causes me to be dizzy. I cannot go for a walk and vape, this will cause me to get light headed and have a "out of breath" feeling while walking. This is not due to hydration, I drink 2-3 litres of water per day. I have an AIO pen with a .5 and a 1.0 ohm coil, the .5 I like because it will give me the kick I need, 1.0 is more comfortable but I feel like I end up vaping the crap out of it to get my need. Then I turn to my Eleaf iStick with the Aspire Nautalis X tank, the coils in this are 1.5 ohm. This device makes my lungs heavy as it produces more vapour. I like how this tank and rig can handle the amount of vaping, little or heavy, and does not over heat compared to the AIO. I have tried numerous juice, and found that CANADIAN Ejuice has the littlest negative effect on me, it's a 70 PG 30 VG, the VG, as you mentioned, causes my chest to be very very heavy. There is too much stuff going on haha. All I know is that I feel off when I vape and all I hear is how everyone else feels great and normal. No heavy chest, no light headed feelings or dizziness, not chest pains etc. I am not sure where to go from here. Sorry for all the info but I am at a complete loss. Oh ya, and I also get this weird feeling, like a haze come over me when I vape, I didn't touch vaping for a day and then tried it the next day and immediately felt different, oddly different. I am only vaping 1.5 mg of nic. I tried this with a 0 mg and did not notice a difference. :(


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  34. Jimi D

    Jimi D Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    You must have been reading MSDS sheets :giggle:
     
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  35. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    It may be that you need even less VG -- that much VG would make me wheeze all day long, I'd feel like a cat with a hairball! I have to use 85%, 86% PG, to be able to keep breathing. And I'm more breathless now than when I smoked, and also have more wheezing. But, I have asthma, full-fledged bronchial asthma. It may be that you have an asthmatic tendency -- my son has often been diagnosed with "asthmatic bronchitis", though he doesn't have bronchial asthma. I would say, try 75/25, 80/20 -- there are some websites that will still allow customization -- the only one that springs to mind right now is heathersheavenlyvapes.com but there are probably others, which do permit 80/20 (PG/VG -- that's how it really should be, traditionally and alphabetically!)

    If you want less vapor: 1) less wattage; 2) more resistance; and 3) more PG -- you need less VG and less heat, to get less vapor. This is precisely why I vape at 10w, 85% PG, with a 2 ohm coil -- I can't handle much vapor.

    Andria
     
  36. Jimi D

    Jimi D Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Nah.. Probably Mitch Zeller incognito :shades: :D
     
  37. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    One other thing just occurred to me.... learn to not inhale so deeply. You really don't need to, with vaping; nicotine in vapor is FAR better absorbed in the mouth and sinus mucosa and throat. this might take a while to become a "normal" thing to do, if you're used to the deep inhales of smoking, but would definitely be easier on your lungs.

    Andria
     
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  38. InformedConsumer

    InformedConsumer New Member

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    Let me first state that RionDunn stated that they were "Feeling like garbage"! Reading the blog talk was about seeing a doctor (which is excellent), PG/VG ratios and issues with each, nicotine bases, WTA, and the vaping hardware but nothing about the flavor chemicals. I have done quite a bit of research on this. When I stated vaping, I bought the premade e-juice. Some were better than others, it is all about taste! Soon I switched to DIY e-juices. I started playing with PG/VG ratios and different DIY flavors. I developed several flavors that tasted GREAT. I also started to notice that sometimes I was not feeling very good, feeling like garbage. So I started researching the PG, VG, Nicotine, and all the DIY flavors I had purchased. Finding SDS (the chemical Safety Data Sheets) online was easy for the PG, VG, Nicotine. The brand of DIY flavors I used has a website that has the SDS for those flavors. They also have information derived from GC/MS analysis. Using the GC/MS analysis I downloaded the SDSs for all these chemical. I have at least two of three for each chemical. So as stated the information is available online, for anyone who cares to look it up. Well I did!


    Where are the studies that shows the safe permissible levels for inhalation (vaping)? Remember that these DIY flavor manufactures state they are intended for baking, candy, etc.. There are safe permissible levels for ingestion. There is a big difference inhalation and ingestion. The dose may make the poison, but who knows the dose is? Where are the studies?

    I am not convinced that ALL e-juices are better than smoking, I believe that MOST are!

    Just being an Informed Consumer.
     
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  39. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I see. Your post made it sound like you have the scientific data, that in the amounts that we use for eliquid, were inhalation risks. But, now, I see that you don't have that information.
     
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  40. InformedConsumer

    InformedConsumer New Member

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    The scientific data are the SDS's for these chemicals. Like I said above "Where are the studies that shows the safe permissible levels for inhalation (vaping)? Remember that these DIY flavor manufactures state they are intended for baking, candy, etc.. There are safe permissible levels for ingestion. There is a big difference inhalation and ingestion. The dose may make the poison, but who knows what the dose is? Where are the studies?"

    Currently it is trial and error. If we have issues with one flavor we switch to a different flavor. Some people may have issues with a flavor and other people can vape it just fine. Some people may not have issues with a flavor that they can see, they assume it is safe. I experienced a health issue when I was vaping one of my DIY flavors where the pressure in my eyes was elevate 35 when I went for a routine eye exam. My normal for many years was 20. I stopped using that DIY flavor and 6 months later my eye pressure is back to normal. I looked up the SDSs for those flavors and one of the hazards was "Eye Damage". You tell me what I should think?

    I am trying to find studies or scientific data as you say that can tell us what the safe permissible levels are for vaping. The SDSs do state what hazards are associated with the chemical but not the permissible levels are. Do we want the Federal Government (OSHA or FDA) to impose more restrictions or do we determine what is safe! Just saying that these chemicals are FDA approved is not correct, these chemical are FDA approved for ingestion.

    I think we are looking for the same thing!

    Concerned Informed Consumer
     
  41. KDodds

    KDodds Silver Contributor ECF Refugee

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    You're looking at data sheets wrong if you think inhalation led to "eye damage". References to eye damage are on safety sheets for splash risk, not long or short term ingestion. Correlation is not causation.

    There is, no doubt, risk involved with inhalation of some flavorings. Where I work, there was a flavorings manufacturer in the next building. The workers on the floor needed to wear masks, absolutely, but the concentrations that built up, even with ventilation, were off the charts. The guidelines used by the FDA and in studies to glean FDA approval include, but are not limited to, cytotoxicity and exposure, including inhalation. Where there is no risk, there is no risk, and it will not be listed. With that said, what vapers are doing is not normal exposure, but it's also not too far off. It's not so much the amount of flavoring used in the liquid, but more how often it's used. If you're looking for "safety" data in that regard, you want to look for long term, small dose, exposure. AND, that's will not and does not and can not come for decades, regardless of method of intake. For example, saccharin. It took almost 100 years to realize the hazards. Or, Red No. 2, only took about 70 years. It would not surprise me in the least if, 100 years from now, it was determined that a diet high in Soy leads to stroke or cancer or pick your malady. Do you use anything other than sugar as a sweetener in your food and beverage? If so, food flavorings are probably the least of your worries.
     
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  42. InformedConsumer

    InformedConsumer New Member

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    Always willing to learn thanks. What about the acute and chronic hazards for respiratory and the LC50 and LD50 levels? How do these effect people vamping? Again thanks for the information!
     
  43. dmilton

    dmilton New Member

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    I agree 100%. The truth is the truth whether we like it or not. I’ve noticed there are a lot of hard core vapors who will defend vaping to the death. Inhaling chemicals, and or flavorings that were designed to be eaten and digested is very different than heating, and vaporizing. How does that change its chemistry? People react to things differently. Just because something works for one person doesn’t mean it works for everyone, or that it’s safe. My Grandpa smoked his entire life and died of old age with no health issues from smoking. My Aunt died much younger from lung cancer and she didn’t smoke half as long. I’ve smoked 30 years and am now giving it up. So I figure as vaping is not good for you, it seems it may be less harmful than analogs. What’s happening to me is, I started with a smok g-priv and baby beast with a .15. Vaping a 70vg/30pg 3mg nic.at 40-50watts. No issues except flavors all seemed pretty bland. Vape store guy suggested Valyrian uwell with a .15 95watt. After 5 1.5-2 sec hits, I felt incredibly fatigued, had to fight to keep my eyes open and felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest. I stopped and in about an hour I started feeling more awake but chest still felt heavy. Thinking maybe I hit it too hard I tried it again taking a shorter, lighter and not quite as deep of a draw. After 2 hits I was back out of commission again. At lower watts, cooler temps it’s not bothering me. At higher watts the chemistry is obviously changing and effecting me, and from what I’ve read I’m not the only one. And before another genius blows it off as withdrawl, don’t waste your time. I’ve tried to quit before and never had this happen until sub ohm high watt vaping. Yes part could be 70vg at higher temp building up in my lungs faster. And if that is all it is, does that mean it’s ok? Inhaling something that is clogging your lungs to the point of it being an effort to breath is not an ok thing. I feel more out of breath than when I was on the analogs.
    We all know what nicotine is and does. What we don’t know for sure, are the health hazards, if any, that come from vaporizing chemicles or food flavoring products that were never really designed to be vaporized and sent into the lungs for absorption.
    I am not anti vape. I want it to work. Gum and patches didn’t work for me and even if I knew I wouldn’t have health problems, I am really just tired of the expense and tired of smelling like an ash tray. But, I am also tired of the heavy chest thing.
     
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  44. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    So the guy at the store had you double your wattage from 40 - 50 to 95 but you are still using the same ohm coils 0.15 and you are still at 70vg?

    Some people can't take the vg and it hurts their chest.

    Some people can't take the high wattage.

    You need to tinker around with the wattage and pg/vg levels until you find something that works for you?
     
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  45. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Just off the top of my head, I'd guess you are one of us rarer folks who don't tolerate VG very well; we're in the minority, but definitely a significant percentage of vapers, who seem to do better with more PG than VG, for whatever reason -- any variant from 50/50 and up to 90% or even, rarely, 100% PG -- I personally prefer about 86% Pg, sometimes 86.5% if my asthma is being troublesome, or in humid weather.

    VG is much, much thicker than PG, so when it coats and recondenses on the walls of the airways, some of us can feel that thick heaviness, and it's very unpleasant, and has a terrible effect on breathing. Try some higher PG and see if that helps.

    Andria

    ETA: what 5150 said about wattage is also true -- I don't vape at 9.5w because I enjoy being contrary! :giggle: It's because too much vapor just doesn't agree with my lungs -- with 86.5% PG at 9.5w, using a 2 ohm coil, what I exhale looks very much like the exhaled smoke from a cigarette, but disappears much faster -- and definitely smells better! But it's close enough to what I remember from smoking; I really don't need more than that, which is good, because my lungs couldn't take it.
     
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  46. dmilton

    dmilton New Member

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    I’m back to my baby beast and lower wattage coil for now. I’m going to try some lower vg juices tonight and see what happens. So far I’ve got about $220 invested so I’m not giving up just yet. I’m curious though, the same 70/30 juice with my 50watt coil and it’s not bad, use it in my 95watt, and I’m sick. So is it the vg I’m have issues with or the wattage, or maybe both?
     
  47. dmilton

    dmilton New Member

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    He doubled my wattage but with a different tank and larger coil. Still new at this but the coil being physically larger still said .15 on it and a range from 95-120 watts.
    I’m going back there this evening and try some different juices and wattages.
     
  48. dmilton

    dmilton New Member

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    Another thought. I went from 30 years of mouth to lung to big cloud direct lung hits. I like the guy at our shop. He’s patient and seems legitimately concerned with helping find the right equipment etc. But did he start me off with too much? I’m not a cloud chaser I just want to stay off analogs. However, when I first tried vaping a couple years ago the vapor output was similar to analog yet it wasn’t satisfying because the texture of the vape is different than smoke so it didn’t feel the same on exhale. That’s one thing I realized is a heavier vape cloud feels similar to smoke. My problem is my lungs aren’t doing well with it. Either too much wattage, too much vg, or bad ingredients in the flavor...Is there a way to get similar results at less wattage, smaller drip tip with a tighter draw and using a higher pg mix?
    I’ve invested a lot of money so far and it’s not working. I have no problem investing more if I can find something that works. I know higher expense at first sucks, but if I can get this dialed in, it could be much cheaper and hopefully healthier in the long run. I think I just need help getting there.
    Like I said, I’m not worried about cost if I can find something that works, so I’m open to any and all advice.
     
  49. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Could be both; either VG or higher wattage or lower resistance creates more heat, and thus more vapor. That's why I vape 86/14, at 9.5w, with a 2 ohm coil -- it creates sufficient vapor to resemble an exhale of cigarette smoke, but no more than that -- anything more would simply be a waste of ejuice, nevermind the coughing and asthma attack that would ensue. As I often describe it... it's like ordering a shot of the most expensive liquor in a bar, and then pouring half of it down your shirt, to look "cool." ;)

    But the ratio you described is actually 30/70 -- PG comes first, whether you consider alphabetical order or tradition -- don't be seduced into confusion by all the VG lovers who can't seem to imagine that there's any other way to do things. ;) 70/30 is 70% PG.

    Andria
     
  50. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Ok, I guess the thing to consider is that your lungs need time to heal; if you can manage to stay satisfied enough with thinner vapor and a mouth-to-lung inhale for a month or two, it's possible, maybe even likely, that eventually you WILL be able to handle higher VG, higher wattage, more vapor, whether you vape it MtL or direct to lung -- my son couldn't handle too much VG at first; he needed to stay around 75/25 or even 80/20 for a month or so, and keep it under 15-20 watts... but now he's a bit over 3 months smoke free, and though he still prefers MtL, he vapes any ratio from 30/70 to 70/30, at about 20-25 watts, without any problems.

    Andria
     

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