These things are flying off the shelves. It seems every kid wants them. But reason for this thread is they are being sold by online vape stores. I wonder if there is a hidden connection between vaping and these spinners lol. 
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Fidget spinners
- Thread starter Just Frank
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So whatcher saying is fidget spinners are just one more way for someone to laugh all the way to the bank.
Pretty much.
Actually, I was reading recently that the woman that first created them made them for autistic children, or children with ADD or something like that. First time I heard about them, though, was vape-related.
Lot of people are laughing to the bank. I know a well known atty maker who stopped making attys just so he could make these spinners as fast as possible. I guess they're selling like hotcakes.....fucking nutz
You talking about Nuevo?
No, Harry (....) who made the original Stumpy RDA.
Gotcha, I forgot about him doing that. There is a local guy here that used to design some stuff for vaperz cloudz (or however you spell it) that did the same thing and is definitely laughing all the way to the bank with it as well. Its crazy what people are willing to pay for those things!
Pretty much.
I understand this is working out great in schools. Kids now have one more distraction in front of them in classrooms to avoid paying attention to anything that is actually relevant. Teachers are thrilled.
A vaper friend of mine who works in a workshop has been using ball bearings to hold his atomizers upright for years. I thought it was pretty clever, since he gets them for free.
The first time I saw fidget spinners in a vape shop, I thought someone had the same idea and made a fancy atomizer stand out of ball bearings. So I didn't find them out of place in a vape store, and didn't even look at them for quite some time.
Then someone told me what they really were: only then did I start to wonder what this idiocy had to do with vaping. I'm still wondering...
The first time I saw fidget spinners in a vape shop, I thought someone had the same idea and made a fancy atomizer stand out of ball bearings. So I didn't find them out of place in a vape store, and didn't even look at them for quite some time.
Then someone told me what they really were: only then did I start to wonder what this idiocy had to do with vaping. I'm still wondering...
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They were already laughing all the way to the bank before making fidget spinners: have you seen how low-tech most vaping parts are, for the price they sell at?
Mech mods for instance: what other industry can make a product made up of a threaded metal tube, 2 or 3 simple bits and pieces, and sell it at 3-digit prices? Same thing for RDAs: they're just glorified wire holders. And of course, the most ridiculously overpriced vaping items of all: fugly 3D-printed plastic boxes like Frankenskulls that literally cost pennies to make, and sell like hotcakes at insane prices with zero marketing or advertising costs. The perfume industry must be shitting itself!
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If you could sell 3 ounces of stainless steel for $150+, wouldn't you?
Any precision machine shop worth it's salt makes a minimum of $75 per hour for it's services.
Can you make all the parts to a metal tube mech mod in 2 hours? Which, by the way, have more than 2 or 3 simple bits and pieces. A tube mod usually consists of the following PRECISION parts:
1. The tube
2. The 510 connector which includes:
2a. The body
2b. The insulator
2c. The the positive pin which is usually 2 pieces
3. The switch (or button) which includes:
3a. The body
3b. The insulator
3c. The button (which is typically 2 pieces)
3d. The spring.
Add that up and you get 8-10 pieces and I can tell you with complete certainty that most of these parts are not "simple".
Can you make an RDA with all it's parts in 2 hours?
Most of the expensive mech mods are expensive because it takes a lot of time to make all the parts correctly and most machine shops are only making and maximum of 50 or less of these products at a time. China copies nice mods and then mass produces them by the thousands using cheap $5 per day labor so of course they can sell them for very little. Is there China knockoff mods as good as authentics? Sometimes they do, but a majority of the China knockoffs are not of the same quality as authentics. However, if the authentic mods were never made, China would have nothing to copy. Just remember that without the expensive authentic mod makers of the past you would not have SHIT as far as innovation in vaporizer products that everyone enjoys nowadays.
Sorry for this little rant, but I have been a Engineer/Programmer/Machinist for over 25 years and comments like yours get under my skin. Most people have no idea how much time and skill is involved with designing, engineering, and making a high quality Mech Mod, RDA, RTA, or RDTA, etc.
Happy Vaping!
CV
For what it's worth, I'm a gunsmith. So I know a thing or two about machining.
Not in China it ain't. And certainly not for turned parts, however precision you believe they are for vaping hardware (they are not - precision starts at tolerances below 0.02 mm for the size parts we're talking about here).
Possibly for a simple mod, but that's beside the point: I can program a CNC lathe in less than 15 hours to churn out all the parts needed to the tune of 2 minutes per part tops. And it's very cheap in tooling costs too: the lathe doesn't have to be fancy, and the cutting tools last forever in copper or plastic.
Artisans make all the parts manually with a lot of TLC. I'm well aware of the cost of purely manual labor, especially for custom-made parts. Hell, I myself charge what looks like insane amounts of money for my rifles, which are made that way. For that sort of production, I totally agree that it's gonna be expensive, and with good reasons. But what I'm talking about here is serialized production, not artisan stuff, and those mods cost a bundle too.
Here's my list:
- One tube (no precision required in OD, very little in ID) and 2 clean threaded areas at both end (precision-ish)
- One hybrid top cap (a disc threaded on the outside and on the inside - precision-ish)
- One bottom cap (threaded - precision-ish)
- One button (lax tolerances by design, otherwise it'll bind)
- One button screw (no precision)
- One plastic insulator (cut-off bit of commercial plastic tubing)
- Two neodymium magnets (commercial off the shell) or a spring (also COTS)
That's it for a basic tube mod. The rest (decorations, engravings...) may require better tooling and more programming, but for a tube mod, that's all there is to it. Do you think it's worth over 3 digits retail for a >100 production run mod, even made in the US? I don't think so...
For a basic 3 post RDA, with non-milled negative posts, probably.
Not in China it ain't. And certainly not for turned parts, however precision you believe they are for vaping hardware (they are not - precision starts at tolerances below 0.02 mm for the size parts we're talking about here).
Possibly for a simple mod, but that's beside the point: I can program a CNC lathe in less than 15 hours to churn out all the parts needed to the tune of 2 minutes per part tops. And it's very cheap in tooling costs too: the lathe doesn't have to be fancy, and the cutting tools last forever in copper or plastic.
Artisans make all the parts manually with a lot of TLC. I'm well aware of the cost of purely manual labor, especially for custom-made parts. Hell, I myself charge what looks like insane amounts of money for my rifles, which are made that way. For that sort of production, I totally agree that it's gonna be expensive, and with good reasons. But what I'm talking about here is serialized production, not artisan stuff, and those mods cost a bundle too.
Here's my list:
- One tube (no precision required in OD, very little in ID) and 2 clean threaded areas at both end (precision-ish)
- One hybrid top cap (a disc threaded on the outside and on the inside - precision-ish)
- One bottom cap (threaded - precision-ish)
- One button (lax tolerances by design, otherwise it'll bind)
- One button screw (no precision)
- One plastic insulator (cut-off bit of commercial plastic tubing)
- Two neodymium magnets (commercial off the shell) or a spring (also COTS)
That's it for a basic tube mod. The rest (decorations, engravings...) may require better tooling and more programming, but for a tube mod, that's all there is to it. Do you think it's worth over 3 digits retail for a >100 production run mod, even made in the US? I don't think so...
For a basic 3 post RDA, with non-milled negative posts, probably.
Wow. I will just say this, once you have made a few of these mods yourself, come back and tell me what you would sell them for. Until then, you are talking from ignorance. I have made a couple mods myself using CNC equipment and your actual cycle time for each one of the parts will probably be 3-5 minutes minimum. Of course who is paying for the 15 hours of programming you speak of? (which at $75 an hour actually equals $1,125) How about the copper material? ( over $200 for a 6 foot section = about 17 completed mods at best ) What about the tooling that lasts "forever" when making these mods? ( basic inserted turning tools cost $60-$80 each plus $10 per insert and prices on tooling go up from there ).
I actually buy almost all China clones because I am not willing to spend $100 plus on a mech mod. So I am not bashing clones or saying people have to spend that kind of money. But I am not ignorant enough to think they are that far over priced.
I'll tell you what. Take the time to design and engineer a mod. Program all the pieces. Buy the Material and tooling needed to make all the pieces. Run them all on equipment that typically costs upwards of $30,000 per machine (and these are cheap machines). Then make sure you pay quality control to check and make sure all the parts are in spec so everything works as it was designed to work. Then pay someone to clean and polish the mods and package them properly to avoid damage in shipment. Then tell me what you would charge for those mods.
I am not saying it cannot be done cheaper, I am only saying I would not be willing to go through all that work and time for a measly 10% profit margin. It would not be worth it. That is why you do not see American companies lining up to make mods. There just is not enough money in them to bother. The cost exceeds the value to people such as yourself and myself. We are not that different in our opinions, I just speak with more experience on the subject having actually built a couple mods myself.
For instance: the picture below is a custom DNA30 copper tube mod that was designed and built by me and a friend at work.
Because we both work full time it took months to finish this mod. By the time we finished it, the DNA30 was obsolete.
Are there ways to cut costs and make these mods cheaper? Of course there are. But American companies cannot compete with China labor costs so why would an American company waste tons of time trying to cut costs when they are still going to have to sell their mods for at least double what China sells them for. Therefore, they would still only sell the same amount of mods they are selling now, except they would not make enough money to stay in business. Have you ever seen a Super T mechanical mod. Pick one up sometime and you will see immediately that China could not even come close to that kind of beautiful precision. Of course Super T stopped making mechanical mods once the regulated mods took over, but that is just the way things go sometimes.
Anyway, I am done now. If you do not understand what I am saying at this point than you never will. And that is ok. We can agree to disagree. Everyone has there own thoughts on the subject and I respect everyone else's opinion. I just know from experience what it takes to make these products and it burns me up when people act like it is a piece of cake. If it is so easy, please make one and show me.
Happy Vaping Everyone!
CV
wish I was not kidding.
something to keep the booger hooks busy without much thinking. kills the hand to mouth urge.
Well I'll be dipped. Good on you, bud!
Are you bored yet?
Well, nothing like a good ad hominem directed at someone you know nothing about to hammer a point home. With arguments like that, I can tell you've got it all figured out and everybody else is doing it wrong. How my business has been profitable for so many years, I'll never know...
You're right though, let's agree to disagree
Always and forever bored, but when truly bored that is the scary brain space when and when bad shit happens. So many hold my beer moments it is scary.
My theory on mech stuff is that the argument is usually made about craftsmanship etc. I would personally find it difficult to believe many mods or atties are truly 'handmade' as in built one at a time, hand milled, hand machined outside of a prototype. Prototype's do add considerably to the time and cost but it's still more effective than making an entire run only to discover a 'booboo'. My dad was a prototype machinist for years. I also agree with Giraut, it's not exactly 'high tolerance'. Also someone isn't using a chisel and cutting the threads for the end caps by hand, they have tooling that does it for them.
Yes bits wear out and need resharpened though I got quite a bit of use out of the bits on my combo cnc mill/lathe when machining air compressor pump components for scroll compressors. Some bits lasted several shifts pumping out over 400 parts working with cast iron and my machine performed 7 different operations on 4 parts at a time loaded by robotic arm. Time from placing the raw parts on the pallets, to the arm to be fed to the machine, finished parts removed and brought back to me by conveyor took just under 4 minutes, less than a minute a piece.
Most all of these mech mods are production run which lowers the price by quite a bit and despite being an "American machine operator" (translation high cost), I made less than $10/hr. So no, machinists don't necessarily command $800/hr. There's the cost of the machines but that is split over multiple projects. Just because parts or designs change doesn't mean the repurchase of an entire machine. It means a bit of retooling and setup. A good chance many of these companies don't even own the machines/shops that are cranking out the mods, instead they're likely using existing shops and paying for product runs which further reduces cost.
The argument isn't necessarily what would it cost someone to do it at home, something can still be overpriced even if providing a service that someone can't duplicate. For someone to buy the raw materials in such small (expensive) quantities as they would need, the machines etc they would never break even just because the cost of startup is outrageous. Like buying a $500 3d printer to make a plastic paperclip. However if it only costs a mass production outfit 1 penny to make a paperclip, knowing they could sell it for 5 cents and still turn a profit doesn't mean 10 cents a piece isn't a ripoff just because it's still cheaper than a 3d printer.
If mech's were priced based on cost to build them then it seems coincidental that whether it's a tube mod, box mod, using carbon fiber or other casing material with only copper contacts etc that they're all roughly in the $150-220 mark. That suggests market pricing rather than materials. Another aspect that makes pricing questionable is comparison of products. A vgod pro mech is $70, made from copper billet. Suggesting a solid round stock of copper machined down so should be pretty expensive. Compared to a TVL Colt .45, also copper at $170. Both bottom firing, both hybrids, both 24mm single 18650. The colt .45 seems to have a better quality button - oh and it's serialized, so it got popped into an engraver. That's one helluva button for $100 premium.
Yes bits wear out and need resharpened though I got quite a bit of use out of the bits on my combo cnc mill/lathe when machining air compressor pump components for scroll compressors. Some bits lasted several shifts pumping out over 400 parts working with cast iron and my machine performed 7 different operations on 4 parts at a time loaded by robotic arm. Time from placing the raw parts on the pallets, to the arm to be fed to the machine, finished parts removed and brought back to me by conveyor took just under 4 minutes, less than a minute a piece.
Most all of these mech mods are production run which lowers the price by quite a bit and despite being an "American machine operator" (translation high cost), I made less than $10/hr. So no, machinists don't necessarily command $800/hr. There's the cost of the machines but that is split over multiple projects. Just because parts or designs change doesn't mean the repurchase of an entire machine. It means a bit of retooling and setup. A good chance many of these companies don't even own the machines/shops that are cranking out the mods, instead they're likely using existing shops and paying for product runs which further reduces cost.
The argument isn't necessarily what would it cost someone to do it at home, something can still be overpriced even if providing a service that someone can't duplicate. For someone to buy the raw materials in such small (expensive) quantities as they would need, the machines etc they would never break even just because the cost of startup is outrageous. Like buying a $500 3d printer to make a plastic paperclip. However if it only costs a mass production outfit 1 penny to make a paperclip, knowing they could sell it for 5 cents and still turn a profit doesn't mean 10 cents a piece isn't a ripoff just because it's still cheaper than a 3d printer.
If mech's were priced based on cost to build them then it seems coincidental that whether it's a tube mod, box mod, using carbon fiber or other casing material with only copper contacts etc that they're all roughly in the $150-220 mark. That suggests market pricing rather than materials. Another aspect that makes pricing questionable is comparison of products. A vgod pro mech is $70, made from copper billet. Suggesting a solid round stock of copper machined down so should be pretty expensive. Compared to a TVL Colt .45, also copper at $170. Both bottom firing, both hybrids, both 24mm single 18650. The colt .45 seems to have a better quality button - oh and it's serialized, so it got popped into an engraver. That's one helluva button for $100 premium.
This popped up on my facebook feed the other day, I could use one but I just need to buy 3000$ worth of tools to make it >.<
Making mods is not the same as turning out mass production cast iron parts. I have done that before and the cost is minimal because the material is usually provided by the customer and the tooling lasts a long time. I am glad I did not actually have to run too many of the parts though because cast iron is some nasty stuff. I did program and setup the jobs, but I usually only ran them when someone called in sick.
Anyway, I am done arguing my point. Everyone has a different opinion so I will leave it at that.
Well, nothing like a good ad hominem directed at someone you know nothing about to hammer a point home. With arguments like that, I can tell you've got it all figured out and everybody else is doing it wrong. How my business has been profitable for so many years, I'll never know...
You're right though, let's agree to disagree
You're business is guns, not mods. I believe your knowledge on guns FAR surpasses mine. Have a great night!
CV
Yep buy your kid hundreds of dollard worth of gamer stuff and smartphones and pay for their net service.
Then pay immigrants to mow you yard, wash your car, etc.
the future looks bleak.
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Claims?!? if that was a fucking ecig they'd be saying how it almost blew her into the afterlife and tried to murder her children
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And what was she doing with it when said incineration took place?
I was checking out the "new arrivals" section of Fasttech one day and noticed the fidget spinners were posted right after a couple of new "female masturbation devices." Coincidence? Maybe not.....
I was checking out the "new arrivals" section of Fasttech one day and noticed the fidget spinners were posted right after a couple of new "female masturbation devices." Coincidence? Maybe not.....
haha thats funny
SirRichardRear
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it's the 2017 version of the tamagotchiThese things are flying off the shelves. It seems every kid wants them. But reason for this thread is they are being sold by online vape stores. I wonder if there is a hidden connection between vaping and these spinners lol.
At least Tamagochis were fun for a little while.
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Kids toys are getting more low tech somehow. Lets not forget the bottle flipping craze the past 2 years. We had to ban bottles in the dugout of little league to get the kids to pay attention to the game or they'd be flipping bottles in the dugout lol
Someone mentioned pogs in another thread. In Hawaii, pogs were huge at least a year before it made it to the mainland. At first, they were collectibles then everyone started putting out pogs with their commercial shit on them. I still have a big binder full of collectible pogs that I got for my older son when he was little. Even includes a paper cap from the original POG bottles.
SirRichardRear
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LMAO i had a shit ton of them. Threw them out years ago. I even had an "OJ in the slammer" slammer
Lolol
go to youtube and search for 'fidget spinner accidents'.
For the children!
For the children!