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Five Pawns diketone test results

Countrypami

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spdy said:
Cloud 9 Vaping tested Five Pawns ejuices and withdrew the entire range from their shelves.

They said that the 2500 ppm Acetyl Propionyl detected in the Five Pawns Absolute pin is the highest result that's ever been seen in any e-liquid so far.
Link:
http://www.cloud9vaping.co.uk/Blog/Liquid-test-results
Click to expand...

From link above:
"The information relating to specific products we have withdrawn from sale as part of our testing/due diligence processes has been removed pending legal advice."
 
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VaporJoe

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Wow thats pretty crazy.. I'm sure someone downloaded the test results. Russ im sure has a copy.
 
spdy

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10636874_10207136957285788_1587968610126646038_o.jpg
 
dionysuskiss

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What gets me is, 5P lied and has denied that there was any D/AP in their juice to their customers this whole time. If a vendor has that stuff in their product, fine, but let the public know that(like Nicoticket). They can then decide, if it's worth the risk.
 
hazozita

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It appears Five Pawns issued a Cease and Desist order against Cloud 9, claiming that the data C9 listed was “fraudulent” due to improper testing. More interesting is Five Pawn’s take on diacetyl and AP, with them downplaying the risk of exposure. Their most recent blog post (copied and pasted below) is an interesting (but rather long-winded) read.

Summary if you don’t want to read it: Don’t worry; be happy; all’s good; keep buying our high-priced juice.



From Five Pawns blog, 6/29/15
As a pioneer in the vapor liquid industry, Five Pawns is committed to the quality of our vapor liquids. Our vision has always been long-term. We founded and built our company on the principle that one day, FDA regulation and approval would be a requirement for our products. We are poised and ready to comply with this standard if and when the time comes.

There is currently no standardized or approved methodology for testing e-liquids. That needs to change. We want to assure our retailers and customers that Five Pawns is 100% dedicated to working to develop a standard methodology by which all e-liquids can be tested and held accountable.

This week, it came to our attention that fraudulent claims have been made about our e-liquids. We take these accusations very seriously, not only for ourselves but the industry as a whole. It is reckless and liable to post test results on products using a non-validated method. Therefore, we have issued a Cease and Desist in the matter and are aggressively pursuing all legal remedy necessary to correct the public record.

Safety of e-liquids is of vital importance to the continued growth of our industry and Five Pawns intends to lead the way. There are many variables to vaping, including flavor supplier ingredients, manufacturing processes and devices that make safety and testing a much more complex issue than it appears on the surface. We have funded extensive independent research, including inhalation and heat studies, and have plans to begin in-vitro research as well, looking at the effects of e-liquid vapor on lung tissue. In our research, we have also discovered that the effects of storage conditions and time on the shelf can also affect the variability of test results. Therefore, we have also initiated long-term stability and degradation testing, which can take up to two years for results. Suffice it to say, we are committed. SEE FIVE PAWNS TEST RESULTS HERE or view as images here: Page 1, Page 2.

It is widely accepted that in comparative terms vaping is safer than smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes contain thousands of chemicals including 30 to 70 known carcinogens. Both the World Health Organization and American Heart Association support vaping as a safer alternative to smoking if other methods have failed.

Since our founding in 2012, Five Pawns has been dedicated to creating the highest quality vapor liquids on the market. When diacetyl was raised as a concern, we moved to source solely diacetyl-free ingredients, only to discover that trace amounts of diacetyl can naturally occur in vapor liquids, just as with beer and wine, and some fruits such as strawberries. SEE OUR 2014 DIACETYL TEST RESULTS HERE or view as images here: Page 1, Page 2.

In response to the diacetyl concern in 2014, some vapor industry flavor suppliers began using acetyl propionyl (AP) as a substitute for diacetyl. While AP has not been linked to any health concerns, and it is not banned by the FDA or any International body, its relative safety or harm is unknown.

It is important to note however, that high levels of both diacetyl and AP are present in cigarettes, yet there has been no link to bronchial obliterates. See abstract report below.

(Crit Rev Toxicol. 2014 May;44(5):420-35. doi: 10.3109/10408444.2014.882292. Epub 2014 Mar 17. Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures associated with cigarette smoking: implications for risk assessment of food and flavoring workers. Pierce JS1, Abelmann A, Spicer LJ, Adams RE, Finley BL.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24635357

Further, we feel that efforts to translate industrial exposure limits to vaping exposure limits are flawed. It is clearly not the same. If this were true, one would expect a population of individuals becoming sick from vaping, but this is not the case. There are no known publicly documented cases of anyone having respiratory issues related to vaping AP or diacetyl at the levels currently in e-liquids. Many websites and blogs discuss this exact issue. We are confident that studies and future data will show inhalation from vaping e-liquids should not be compared to industrial exposure limits.

Vapor enthusiasts seek out Five Pawns for our well-known complex, multi-layered flavors and we are determined to ensure the quality of the Five Pawns experience.

In 2014, we contracted with two independent testing laboratories to analyze each of our 10 core flavors and our latest limited edition flavor. SEE TEST RESULTS HERE or view as an image here: Page 1.

But we wanted to go further.


So last year we moved to formalize the standardization of our manufacturing processes. This includes incorporating a gravimetric pouring process to our production to ensure greater accuracy of ingredients, and moving our mixing, steeping and bottling of liquids in an ISO 8 clean room to ensure consistency and purity.

In the meantime, it’s important that consumers can enjoy the Five Pawns flavor experience with the highest level of confidence. Five Pawns does not feel there is any concern with diacetyl or AP in our e-liquids at current levels. AP can be an important flavor enhancer for flavor profiles that are creamy in nature, and is used widely in the food and beverage industries.

To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity. The new line of vapor liquids will also solve the flavor problem for those who have sacrificed taste in pursuit of greater vapor production.

Five Pawns is dedicated to quality and is committed to providing an alternative for those wanting a pleasurable vice with less consequence. We will continue to produce our current Five Pawns flavor profiles, constantly improving our products with ongoing testing and adherence to any regulations or testing standards required by any regulatory body in the future.

We’re happy to answer and questions or concerns you have. You can post a comment here or email us at [email protected].
 
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pulsevape

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To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity.

how does having an alternative base have anything to do with diacetyl and AP...as I thought those had to do with flavorings.
 
jack

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How is the test independent, if you find the lab, pay them,. and then supply the product yourself, Independent , means , third party , does all that !
 
Joshua Iles

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I've never vaped a high end juice like five pawns, saw their prices and that immediately turned me off anyway. That said a company that is going to charge the prices that they do needs to be very proactive in keeping their product as safe and clean as possible so to speak. I can imagine vapers hold them to a higher standard than many other companies for the simple fact that IMHO their prices are flat ridiculous. I normally buy juice locally for about 10 for a 30 mil bottle, to me that's almost pushing it price wise. I've never had any issues with a juice being really bad except for mt baker and when i used to order ft juices, although their juice was better than mt Baker's to me. Kudos to the retailers who are trying to give us a better product, to me it sounds like cloud 9 spent some good money and did some good research to find levels of substances that may be causing problems. I know that there's too much lack of information right now to really say yay or nay on a lot of this stuff right now, could all be propaganda. But I for one am happy that some vendors and manufacturers are really trying to figure out what harmful effects this stuff may really have.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk
 
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Zamazam

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5 Pawns is in a bad situation. Their PR and statements are in direct contradiction with the posted (and removed) test results. Test results and the sky high 2500 ppm Acetyl Propionyl detected in the Five Pawns Absolute pin is just insane. They knowingly sold that stuff and are currently still selling it.
 
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pulsevape

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Zamazam said:
5 Pawns is in a bad situation. Their PR and statements are in direct contradiction with the posted (and removed) test results. Test results and the sky high 2500 ppm Acetyl Propionyl detected in the Five Pawns Absolute pin is just insane. They knowingly sold that stuff.
Click to expand...
Oh hell yes they knew what was in what they were selling....anybody know the name of the guy who owns the company....
My initial reaction is disgust and outrage,but.....I suppose that there could be something like a mistake being made by cloud 9 or the lab that did the tests....but it sure isn't looking that way.....
 
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UncleRJ

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Zamazam said:
5 Pawns is in a bad situation. Their PR and statements are in direct contradiction with the posted (and removed) test results. Test results and the sky high 2500 ppm Acetyl Propionyl detected in the Five Pawns Absolute pin is just insane. They knowingly sold that stuff.
Click to expand...

What did they know and when did they know it?
 
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pulsevape

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The owner of the company is guy named Rodney Jerabeck. He needs to come forth and explain what the fuck is going on.
 
Zamazam

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I read all of the assays posted by Russ Wishtart. The basic fact that 5 Pawns flat out lied about the amount of DA and AP in their eliquid, even from their own testing indicates that the company is not reputable. The splitting of hairs and parsing of statements has begun, one of the surest ways to detract from the issue of 5 Pawns arrogance and dishonesty. Certified testing labs test use calibrated and highly sensitive equipment. Their livelihood is on the line with the accuracy of the tests they perform. I have no problem accepting the test results of the lab in the U.K.

Now that 5 Pawns has lawyered up, expect nothing but legal dribble from them. 5 Pawns knows they fucked up badly and are now trying to control the spin. To be honest, with their jacked up prices and arrogant attitude, I won't miss them if they go tits up.
 
VinceV1

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Zamazam said:
I read all of the assays posted by Russ Wishtart. The basic fact that 5 Pawns flat out lied about the amount of DA and AP in their eliquid, even from their own testing indicates that the company is not reputable. The splitting of hairs and parsing of statements has begun, one of the surest ways to detract from the issue of 5 Pawns arrogance and dishonesty. Certified testing labs test use calibrated and highly sensitive equipment. Their livelihood is on the line with the accuracy of the tests they perform. I have no problem accepting the test results of the lab in the U.K.

Now that 5 Pawns has lawyered up, expect nothing but legal dribble from them. 5 Pawns knows they fucked up badly and are now trying to control the spin. To be honest, with their jacked up prices and arrogant attitude, I won't miss them if they go tits up.
Click to expand...
The King is naked.
 
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Zamazam said:
I read all of the assays posted by Russ Wishtart. The basic fact that 5 Pawns flat out lied about the amount of DA and AP in their eliquid, even from their own testing indicates that the company is not reputable. The splitting of hairs and parsing of statements has begun, one of the surest ways to detract from the issue of 5 Pawns arrogance and dishonesty. Certified testing labs test use calibrated and highly sensitive equipment. Their livelihood is on the line with the accuracy of the tests they perform. I have no problem accepting the test results of the lab in the U.K.

Now that 5 Pawns has lawyered up, expect nothing but legal dribble from them. 5 Pawns knows they fucked up badly and are now trying to control the spin. To be honest, with their jacked up prices and arrogant attitude, I won't miss them if they go tits up.
Click to expand...
This isn't just a company the company has a name the name is Rodney Jerabeck he owns it and he's responsible for this, and it's a name the whole community should know.....I will not miss them either and it couldn't have happened to a more well deserving group of assholes.....In an industry and community in which so many vendors bend over backwards to help and inform their customers 5 Pawns has stood out as a bunch of toffe nosed elitist who were arrogant and dismissive of their customers. The chickens are coming home to roost.
 
BUDKISS

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Quesiton: Isn't this the same kind of stuff that happened with suicide bunny? And what was the final outcome of all that chaos?
 
VinceV1

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BUDKISS said:
Quesiton: Isn't this the same kind of stuff that happened with suicide bunny? And what was the final outcome of all that chaos?
Click to expand...

Diacetyl is suspected to cause irreversible damages. Companies that are full of s*** about their statements should be simply ignored by consumers.
 
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Zamazam

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BUDKISS said:
Quesiton: Isn't this the same kind of stuff that happened with suicide bunny? And what was the final outcome of all that chaos?
Click to expand...
Kind of. The owner of suicide bunny supposedly had assay tests done, but never release more than a snippet or two of them. To my knowledge the entire line was reformulated eliminating high DA and AP.

That is all 5 Pawns had to do is to reformulate and remove the AP and DA. Instead, they chose to get snarly and get lawyers involved.
 
RobbieR

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Can someone tell me why Five Pawns or any other juice company would use high levels of DA & AP in their juice?

Do they do it to save money, or is it easier to create flavors with it?
 
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pulsevape

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Zamazam said:
Kind of. The owner of suicide bunny supposedly had assay tests done, but never release more than a snippet or two of them. To my knowledge the entire line was reformulated eliminating high DA and AP.

That is all 5 Pawns had to do is to reformulate and remove the AP and DA. Instead, they chose to get snarly and get lawyers involved.
Click to expand...

Seriously.....after all this would you take their word for anything....they can reformulate all they want they are going to be forever known from now on as lying sacks of shit.
 
nabibrian

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I've never purchased a bottle of Five Pawns e-liquid.
I have however, tried just about all of them.
To be honest, I was not impressed enough to pay as much for a bottle of e-liquid that in just two bottles (the total cost) I could be making my own by using that money to purchase my ingredients and supplies.
 
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Whiskey

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This is only one of many making juices that have the tabo ingredients in their juices, only with testing will we know who else out there secretly puts them in their juices, Kinda of scary every time I hear of another vendor getting caught at it, and because there is no required testing/regulation, it's a risk we take when we buy from them without proof of ingredients , That is why so many no doubt have turned to DIY as their source of juice.
 
outwest

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Whiskey said:
This is only one of many making juices that have the tabo ingredients in their juices, only with testing will we know who else out there secretly puts them in their juices, Kinda of scary every time I hear of another vendor getting caught at it, and because there is no required testing/regulation, it's a risk we take when we buy from them without proof of ingredients , That is why so many no doubt have turned to DIY as their source of juice.
Click to expand...
yeah, I remember the DIY and 'made in USA' thing started, in part, because of fears of what might be in their made in China eliquid (back when made in China was pretty much all there was).
 
Pauly Walnuts

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I still cant wrap my head around $1 PER ML!!! So saying their profit margin is at least 20-1 is a modest estimate. All the while, raking in huge money and knowing exactly what they put in their juice, they still feel the compulsion to lie to their customers.

I cant imagine much will happen though. Suicide bunny is still sold all over the country and people are still buying it. People have a very short memory, especially for completely intangible, possibly harmful chemicals. .
 
hazozita

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Pauly Walnuts said:
I still cant wrap my head around $1 PER ML!!! So saying their profit margin is at least 20-1 is a modest estimate. All the while, raking in huge money and knowing exactly what they put in their juice, they still feel the compulsion to lie to their customers.

I cant imagine much will happen though. Suicide bunny is still sold all over the country and people are still buying it. People have a very short memory, especially for completely intangible, possibly harmful chemicals. .
Click to expand...


I agree -- lots of anger and concern at the moment; a month from now it will be forgotten. The only likely outcome will be to have handed those who want to regulate vaping out of existence more ammunition with which to shoot us.
 
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pulsevape

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Pauly Walnuts said:
I still cant wrap my head around $1 PER ML!!! So saying their profit margin is at least 20-1 is a modest estimate. All the while, raking in huge money and knowing exactly what they put in their juice, they still feel the compulsion to lie to their customers.

I cant imagine much will happen though. Suicide bunny is still sold all over the country and people are still buying it. People have a very short memory, especially for completely intangible, possibly harmful chemicals. .
Click to expand...
natural selection
 
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pulsevape

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hazozita said:
I agree -- lots of anger and concern at the moment; a month from now it will be forgotten. The only likely outcome will be to have handed those who want to regulate vaping out of existence more ammunition with which to shoot us.
Click to expand...

I disagree.5 pawns is a joke now...even if they do hobble along they will eventually fold...the vaping community will revile them as lying scumbags....you don't bounce back after something like this.Every reputable and high quality juice company will despise them as they have effectively poisened the well for all juice makers...look for DIY to skyrocket.
 
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Amazing that 5 Pawns brags about their ultra modern clean lab in their promo vids.....doesn't help them much if their QA is shite. The testing lab cloud 9 used was a reputable British government testing lab. Then Five Pawns, snarkily files a cease and desist order against cloud 9 vaping and tries to discredit them on their blog. Not a very sporting way to handle criticism. Shops are beginning to pull Five Pawns from their shelves. I say that's a good thing.
 
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