For All who Question why I only Recommend Name Brand Batteries...

[madmonkey]

Ok, this video came out a couple months ago...it happened in Santa Ana California...I am sure I am the last person to hear about this and it's a good thing because I probably would have walked to California and slapped somebody for allowing this to happen. The video is the exact reason I only Trust Battery Producer made batteries and not the "Re Wrapped" crap second rate cells that everyone gobbles up like candy and says how hard they hit. The truth of the matter is this guy is either uneducated in the vaping products he bought or is a complete idiot. I put up a "dangers of hybrid mechs venting" thread in the safety section but I want as many people to see this as possible so I am putting this here to "help" others choose wisely when buying batteries.

The truth is there is no such thing as a true 30 amp battery with a 2900 mah capacity. Just now since this video are we getting 3000 mah 20 amp batteries from Samsung and LG. The only 2900 hundred mah battery I know if is a 10 amp battery from Panasonic and I have several of them for my older regulated devices and they are solid batteries but are NOT meant to EVER be USED WITH HYBRIDS.

The only battery labels I trust are from the authentic makes when I am sure they are authentic. The only Re Wrap I trust is AW and they are super expensive and don't claim anything near that kind of power on their wrapper and the reason why AW's are what they are is because a guy made a business of picking out the very best of the best cells and testing them and wrapping a sticker of approval on them in a time that batteries were even more shady than they are now. Here below is a video of why I preach what I preach on safety and such after a list of battery makers I trust and then a list I don't.

Also if you're still reading, this is also just as important....Hybrid connections should NEVER BE USED WITH A TANK! you should never use them with anything other than a dripper with a center pin that sticks out at least 2 mm, not 1, but 2 mm's past the 510 connection on a dripping atomizer and make damned sure there are no shorts anywhere. The reason why it needs to be at least 2 is some screws are made of such soft and cheap metal that when you tighten the battery against them they can actually smoosh down and touch the end of the 510 connection even though the center screw was still sticking out before and cause the same short that happened in this video...you need room for the metal to be able to smoosh down and still stick out a safe distance past the 510 connector period. End of discussion end of story.

Trustable batteries: Samsung, LG, Panasonic, AW, VTC's (when authentic, I know they're hard to be found and be sure they are.) Obtronic (even though they rewrap as well they do the same type process as AW to ensure quality and authenticity.), XTAR and MNKE

Questionable batteries: Efest, Efan, Imiren, MXJO, VAMPED, AMPED, anything with "fire" in the name, Power Keeper (I have not seen enough test data to trust them yet,) and any other rewrapped battery promasing 30 or more amps higher than 2500 mah storage capacity. the VTC 5 is even a 20 amp rated battery but can seem to handle 30 amps with minimal heat increase. If I remember the names of the others I will add them to this list but you get the point.

Now...onto the show....

Note to mods: can we please leave this here for a bit before moving to safety or batteries? I want as many people to see this as possible. Thanks...MM

 

[kilgorekb]

I bought my first vape this week. My local shop sold me this battery: http://www.aspirecig.com/products/MOD/mod206.html
Is this battery legit?

 

[Mike H.]

Using a hybrid with a tank is fine or even with an rda...the main issue with a hybrid is the 510 connector used on the tank or rda....you MUST have a certain amount of the the positive end of the 510 sticking out to make PROPER connection...if you dont ,you have a battery vent issue more than likely as the positive of the battery will touch the threads of the 510 which is the negative side of the atty or tank...Ive been using some tanks on a hybrid (smpl and nemesis hybrid conversion) with zero issues...you just have to be aware of the 510 on the tank to determine if its compatible or not.

 

[kilgorekb]

This battery is 3.7V but when I push the button on my KBOX Mini, it always reads, "2.7V." Is that normal?

 

[Mike H.]

This battery is 3.7V but when I push the button on my KBOX Mini, it always reads, "2.7V." Is that normal?

The battery fully charged is somewhere between 4.1 and 4.2v for a 3.7v cell..The reading on the display is telling you the voltage being sent to the tank...if you raise the watts it will increase...if you lower watts it will decrease.

 

[kilgorekb]

Sho nuff. Thanks.

 

[madmonkey]

Using a hybrid with a tank is fine or even with an rda...the main issue with a hybrid is the 510 connector used on the tank or rda....you MUST have a certain amount of the the positive end of the 510 sticking out to make PROPER connection...if you dont ,you have a battery vent issue more than likely as the positive of the battery will touch the threads of the 510 which is the negative side of the atty or tank...Ive been using some tanks on a hybrid (smpl and nemesis hybrid conversion) with zero issues...you just have to be aware of the 510 on the tank to determine if its compatible or not.

You might be getting along fine and lucky...so was that guy till one day...most tanks aren't designed for hybrids and it's a gamble to use them on them at best, each to their own, I wouldn't tell you not too, but I wouldn't recommend it in good conscious since pins float and can move and it only takes a second for a bad connection to short. I've had an atty short on me with a hybrid that the atty was supposed to be designed specifically for hybrid use...but the copper in the screw was so soft that when I tightened the atty to them mod it smooshed the screw in and BAM, instant short.

You know what you're doing than fine, but I am not going to sit here and tell the new guy that it's totally safe and fine when in reality it's a crap shoot and not paying attention could bring horrible results I don't wish on anyone

 

[OBDave]

I bought my first vape this week. My local shop sold me this battery: http://www.aspirecig.com/products/MOD/mod206.html
Is this battery legit?

I'd have a hard time believing those specs, but Aspire is generally a respected brand...hoping someone else can chime in on that one.

 

[kilgorekb]

Can you please recommend a battery model number, and a reputable source to purchase it?

 

[Whiskey]

Moved to battery area

 

[NemesisVaper]

Agree with a he'll of a lot I the first post. People new here would become much wiser on cells of it were stickied.

Only thing I had "issue" with is having to have the 510 screw sticking out by 2mm. Not sure if the Op realises just how much 2mm is. Virtually no screws stick out 2mm. My Tugboat V2 protrudes around 1.25mm. 2mm is a massive amount when we're talking about 510 connections.

Tanks, as in sub ohm clearo users I also agree. No place for them on a hybrid topcap. Most are sprung or flush. Some are even recessed which is even more an issue. As for rebuildable tanks, that's different. My goblin 510, in my opinion is suitable for use on a hybrid. Rebuildable tanks with a fixed deck should also be looked at case by case, as should drippers.

The centre positive of a cell can dent in, making the battery the issue with shorting. Definitely needs people to keep on checking their equipment if they're using a hybrid. Check things out every cell change, every atty change. Risk assess basically.

 

[NemesisVaper]

I'd have a hard time believing those specs, but Aspire is generally a respected brand...hoping someone else can chime in on that one.

You are indeed right to be sceptical. Search "ecf aspire 40A test". The cells vented when discharged at 30A. Not good cells, and in the testers opinion, 15A limit or 20A with cooling.

Kilgorekb: What are you using the cells in? If it's in a mech below 0.5, I'd stop using them.

Go to liionwholesale.com and get some VTC4 or Samsung 25R. Without knowing how they'll be used these two are the safest recommendations in my opinion.

 

[kilgorekb]

It's a KangerTech SUBOX Mini starter kit. I'm using the 0.5 RBA that came in the kit.

 

[fq06]

I agree with some of the members here about tanks, not all tanks should be ruled out. Every "subohm tank" I have seen has a flush or near flush positive pin, don't use those with a hybrid.

But there are plenty of rebuildable tanks that are fine as the positive sticks out past the 510's negative.

Not only did he use a subohm tank on a hybrid top, he didnt vent his 4nine. You have to cut slits on the top from the holes to the ouside edge or that thing is a sealed up grenade waiting to go off. That hole in the button is not a vent.

 

[fq06]

@kil...
That battery says 40a "max". That is it's burst rating, that means it can handle 40a for a couple seconds.

I would bet it is at best a 20a battery but that is still fine for a kbox... those do what... 40 watts at the most?
Anyway, it's fine with a 0.5 ohm coil.

Like nemesis said, stick with samsung 25r (light blue 20a one) or sony vtc4 for your future purchases.

I get mine from imrbatteries, you dont have to worry about getting a fake from them and they have the best prices I have found.

 

[fq06]

https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-25r-18650-rechargeable-battery/

 

[NemesisVaper]

@kil...
That battery says 40a "max". That is it's burst rating, that means it can handle 40a for a couple seconds.

I would bet it is at best a 20a battery but that is still fine for a kbox... those do what... 40 watts at the most?
Anyway, it's fine with a 0.5 ohm coil.

Like nemesis said, stick with samsung 25r (light blue 20a one) or sony vtc4 for your future purchases.

I get mine from imrbatteries, you dont have to worry about getting a fake from them and they have the best prices I have found.

Usually I'd say he'll yes, I agree totally with you. However the tests I've seen on the Aspire 18650, in my opinion mark them as unsafe anything above 15A.

Aspire are actually claiming 40A continuous, not pulsed. They also claim to have engineered the cell themselves using a hybrid of ICR (cobalt) and Manganese based tech. Wouldn't trust them an inch.

Imrbatteries are also an excellent vendor according to my US based mates. Fasttech and Gearbest though they sell clones do also sell genuine cells for cheap prices. That's the best option for me, otherwise I'm stuck paying the equivalent of 13 USD for a 25R (if I can find them) and nearly 18 USD for a 2500mAh efest... Lol!

You're bang on with what you say about that cell in the Subox kit. It's regulated so should kick up a warning if the cell is struggling. Max amp draw for that box would be 50/3.2 = 15.625A. That puts it just in the range that the community have deemed safe for the cell.

I'll try and find the link to the testing of the Aspire "40A". It's a bit hard to follow because it's several tests spread out through the post. The guy I think tested them first and no venting but poor performance over 15A, then he had one pop it's cherry and the other be severely damaged (as in major loss of capacity) when he did another test run.

 

[fq06]

Wow, claiming 40a continuous? Thats a bold claim lol.

I wouldn't doubt sub 15a output from that and many other "high discharge" batteries out there.

Even the other good batteries on the market don't handle the amp draw as well as the 25r and vtc line (vtc's are getting to be old stock now and probably not a battery I would buy until new ones are being manufactured). There is a lot more voltage sag under power and the same 2500mah doesn't last like the 2500mah in the 25r.

 

[fq06]

Oh yeah... and aspire is engineering their own Li cells now?
Wow, from a simple hardware company to having Tesla car company level of engineers employed?
Whatever

 

[fq06]

And another thing, the Brit dialect is a fun one with great slang (bang on)... and everything sounds more intelligent in propper queen's english

 

[conanthewarrior]

I do agree that the name brand batteries are the safest, most reliable out there. There is no lying, they are what they are. I can not say I have experimented with batteries that are not name brand, as I have recently, but I use a regulated mod, I would never use in a mech.

 

[Mike H.]

E fest has out a claim now for a 2900mah with a 35 amp continuous rating they manufactured...i call bull shit on that...Sad how a company shows no interest in ones safety with false claims and shoves there shaft up people asses with the prices they charge...i think there is already a video of the new 2900 venting having not drawn even 15 amps.

The only efest cell ive ever used and actually still do use is the purple 2500 35amp burst cell which is known to be a LG HE2 cell and is a true 20 amp continuous...i have never purchased nor will i ever purchase an efest cell...the one i do have was "thrown in" with the purchase of a used device.

It's Sony vtc 4 and samsung 25R for me all day long and, there is one new cell which i plan to try and, that is the new 3000 mah LG HD2 with a 20 amp continuous rating...Now if my Eleaf 100w would only get here so i can order them.
​

 

[fq06]

Now that's taking it a little too far, they built a lithium cell factory? There are only 3 in the world, maybe there is a 4th now lol

 

[fq06]

I would like to see a test on that 3000 mah 20a continuous cell, there is only so much room in these cells and you can pack high mah in there or high c rating, not both. As the mah goes down, so does internal resistance. Push more mah into the same package size and you lose discharge capability.

 

[Mike H.]

I really havent seen a cell with a true MAh rating as advertised...if it turns out to be a 2800 mah cell id still be happy.

And yea..Efest claims its not a re wrap of any cell and they manufactured it...so i guess they have a billion dollars or more to open a plant...smh...highly doubt it.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I own the efest 2900 MAH cells, that they claim are genuine constant 35 Amp, and made in house. I know this is highly unlikely and someone well versed in batteries told me to expect probably between 20-25 real world amps. They were a replacement to the 2800 MAH but they changed at the last minute to 2900 MAH to distinguish from the old ones, they told me this themselves.

I really want to see a graph on this battery, but I have used it up to 30 amps with no heat, venting, or signs of damage. I have been told this may work for a while, but shorten the lifespan of the battery.

In a few weeks, we will have hopefully some real graph results of these.

Althought I can tell you they actually DO perform better than my 25Rs in temp control mode on the sig 75. Not sure I am sold on temp control tho, as I am not sure how safe nickel is for vaping, and I am getiing a sore throat.

But, if it can provide a constant 25 amps, then I will be buying some more for my sig 75 as it was overdrawing the samsungs by a few amps and this made me feel unsafe.

 

[Mike H.]

I own the efest 2900 MAH cells, that they claim are genuine constant 35 Amp, and made in house. I know this is unlikely and someone well versed in batteries told me to expect probably between 20-25 real world amps. They were a replacement to the 2800 MAH but they changed at the last minute to 2900 MAH to distinguish from the old ones, they told me this themselves.

But, if it can provide a constant 25 amps, then I will be buying some more for my sig 75 as it was overdrawing the samsungs by a few amps and this made me feel unsafe.

I doubt they are even 25 amp....if they are its the first cell to claim 25 amps continuous. ..Somehow i dont believe efest one bit...Ive seen samsung 25r's with a claim of 22 amps...LG has a 3000 mah 20 amp..I would trust LG way before i would an efest battery...just saying.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Yeah I know samsungs claim 22 amps on the steam engine calculator, but I got told that was a mistake and they are 20 Amp batteries? If they are 22, I would feel safe using them in temp control mode on the sigelei. Maybe the battery life was awful as I was not using a fully charged cell, and I have mainly been using power mode with kanthal, this temp control is new to me. I just don't want to go and vent a battery

I have a hard time believing Efest too, but so far, they have worked well.

They are probably a 20 amp battery, and I am just wishing for what we all wish for, a high capacity, high amp cell. One day that surely will happen? Although I agree Efest have made ludacrous claims in the past, I just want this to be true. I am more gullible than most people, and trusting, so that could be why.

I agree with you On LG before Efest, I got some of their HG2 batteries, works great. 3000MAH at 20 Amp, that amazed me. For most applications, such as the sig 30 or 75 it is fine, as I hardly ever go over 60 watts. I do want to get a pair to marry for my 150, although I do not know how safe they are as the voltage drops? As I understand amp load goes up as voltage drops, that is why the regulated mods step up to like 6.3 volts when maxing out?

 

[fq06]

If your TC mod pushes 20a, it will be for a second or less getting up to temp and then the mod pulls power back to maintain your chosen temp.
Even if you are maxing out the temp at 600° or whatever.

Stem engine is showing you a constant rating which is not what your mod is doing.

 

[conanthewarrior]

If your TC mod pushes 20a, it will be for a second or less getting up to temp and then the mod pulls power back to maintain your chosen temp.
Even if you are maxing out the temp at 600° or whatever.

Stem engine is showing you a constant rating which is not what your mod is doing.

Ahh, I did not understand this. As you know, I am learning, as we all are, I am just slightly newer. That makes me less worried to use a 25R, as they were my favourite batteries.

I don't see any benefit from the Efests, I only bought 2 so they didnt cost the earth. It was more of an experiment to see what they are like for myself.

I think I will stick to the big 5 unless it turns out this is a real 30 Amp battery, which I might as well hope for a unicorn too lol. Oh well, I got 2 batteries that i know work OK, I will probably use them in my mod when I am using it with a tank, max 30 watts. usually 25 with my lemo.The 75 is perfect for that, and the battery lasts all day using that wattage. If I go over 55 the battery life is awful, like if I want to use my RDA'S I use either my 150 or ensure I have plenty of backup batteries charged. So I see it as really a 50 to 55 watt mod box, and ignore the rest. Then it makes me happy.

I am getting a sore throat, and it is only since I started using the nickel. I am going back to kanthal to see if it dissapears. If so, no TC for me, but I have some worries about nickel anway, so it wont bother me.

One thing that does confuse me though - 30 watts on the 75 or 150 seems more powful and produces more vapour than 30 watts on my sig 30. This should not be, should it? Very odd, but it definitely puts out less than half the amount of vapour at 30 watts than they do.

 

[NemesisVaper]

I would like to see a test on that 3000 mah 20a continuous cell, there is only so much room in these cells and you can pack high mah in there or high c rating, not both. As the mah goes down, so does internal resistance. Push more mah into the same package size and you lose discharge capability.

There are a few tests on the LG HG2. It is indeed a 3000mAh 20A. You won't get the full capacity at 20A but you won't with any cell. Capacity is derived from a full charge to the 2.5 V cut off voltage usually using between 500mA and 1A of load. LG are pushing it but they've just pulled it off. They look like they're trying to get one up on Samsung, whose newest 3000mAh high drain is " only" a 15 A.

Going to 25A on the HG2 caused a permanent loss of capacity, therefore internal damage. They're a good cell but nowhere near the headroom of LGs previous 20A batteries.

It's entirely possible Efest are having cells made. It's a misconception that only a few factories exist that make cells. Anyone can buy the machinery and an off the shelf design. What is meant by " only the big names make cells" is that only they have the money and equipment to design one from the ground up, to make a safe cell from scratch and to innovate in materials used etc. China can and do make cells, it doesn't require anything too special, the right machines and materials and a recipe. If they can make Lipo packs there's nothing special about making a 18650.

That's why it makes me cringe when people talk about 26650s as being "the way forward" thinking they are bigger and therefore must have higher current handling capabilities. 26650 tech is under developed, there's not as much demand for them. Most 26650s are China produced. The best 26650 currently available is a 25A 3500mAh Panasonic, and it's as rare as rocking horse shit. Wouldn't trust any 26650 cell from any brand other than Panasonic or Sony ( if you can still find them).

 

[conanthewarrior]

There are a few tests on the LG HG2. It is indeed a 3000mAh 20A. You won't get the full capacity at 20A but you won't with any cell. Capacity is derived from a full charge to the 2.5 V cut off voltage usually using between 500mA and 1A of load. LG are pushing it but they've just pulled it off. They look like they're trying to get one up on Samsung, whose newest 3000mAh high drain is " only" a 15 A.

Going to 25A on the HG2 caused a permanent loss of capacity, therefore internal damage. They're a good cell but nowhere near the headroom of LGs previous 20A batteries.

It's entirely possible Efest are having cells made. It's a misconception that only a few factories exist that make cells. Anyone can buy the machinery and an off the shelf design. What is meant by " only the big names make cells" is that only they have the money and equipment to design one from the ground up, to make a safe cell from scratch and to innovate in materials used etc. China can and do make cells, it doesn't require anything too special, the right machines and materials and a recipe. If they can make Lipo packs there's nothing special about making a 18650.

That's why it makes me cringe when people talk about 26650s as being "the way forward" thinking they are bigger and therefore must have higher current handling capabilities. 26650 tech is under developed, there's not as much demand for them. Most 26650s are China produced. The best 26650 currently available is a 25A 3500mAh Panasonic, and it's as rare as rocking horse shit. Wouldn't trust any 26650 cell from any brand other than Panasonic or Sony ( if you can still find them).

The LG HG2 does what I want it to, its goes in a regulated mod, and gives longer life than a 25R. 25R's are kind of the standard I compare everthing else too, probably because I own quite a few of them and know them to be good batteries. There is a big gap for a high Amp cell, I don't see why this has not been filled, which is why I may be a little over excited for the Efests. I do not think they are 35A, but maybe 25 or 30 could be possible in theory.

I think its where I want a battery with that performance I am wanting to believe, kind of like a child with santa. I remember I still wanted to believe he was real, I did not speak to my mum for around a week apparently. lol.

 

[NemesisVaper]

I've got some HG2 on the way for my Sigelei 100W. Looking h forward to hopefully getting a full 12 hour shift out of them. Doesn't matter much though as I'll still carry spares with me.

If you're up for experimenting just be careful and you should be fine. I'm all over new OEM cells if they come out but efest don't interest me. I know I can use a parallel box if I want too go super low. Efest don't excite me, they've lied to me in the past and I just won't forget it.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I've got some HG2 on the way for my Sigelei 100W. Looking h forward to hopefully getting a full 12 hour shift out of them. Doesn't matter much though as I'll still carry spares with me.

If you're up for experimenting just be careful and you should be fine. I'm all over new OEM cells if they come out but efest don't interest me. I know I can use a parallel box if I want too go super low. Efest don't excite me, they've lied to me in the past and I just won't forget it.

I guess it is where I missed the Efest fiasco, when I vaped before it was Ego's and Ce4s lol, so they might not taste as bitter to me as they do to some people. They do work great in my 75 though, but I am only using that with a tank at 25 watts mainly. I think , unless these are proven to be a real, 25 or 30 amp battery, just stick to the 25R's and other big name batteries.

I just thought I would buy two to try myself in my regulated mods, no way would I put these in a mech. I am becoming slightly less scared of mechs as I learn more. I also realise as long as I don't build super low, I am only drawing less than 10 amps in a mech, so that worries me less. A 0.5 coil only pulls 8.4 amps,and higher ohms even less amps, so they are not these scary beasts I once thought they were.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I doubt they are even 25 amp....if they are its the first cell to claim 25 amps continuous. ..Somehow i dont believe efest one bit...Ive seen samsung 25r's with a claim of 22 amps...LG has a 3000 mah 20 amp..I would trust LG way before i would an efest battery...just saying.

The 25R's are 20 amp just to clarify right, and it is an error that lists them as 8.8C/22 amp on the steam engine calculators?

 

[Mike H.]

Even fasttech lists them as 22 amp...they very well could be but, its not a make or break amount to use or not use them in your device over 2 amps.

If you are concerned about that then only buy VTC4 cells and its not going to ever be an issue in any regulated mod you own.

 

[NemesisVaper]

The 25R is definitely a 20A cell. The official Samsung spec sheet is available online as a pdf. Search "Samsung 25r spec sheet" and it should be one of the first links.

The predecessor to the 25R, the 20R, was a 22A 2000mAh cell.

 

[fq06]

he was methed outta his head when this event took place

owners of 3 local vape shops all said this guy was a accident bound to happen

And the story gets even better lol

 

[Lefty]

And the story gets even better lol

Next up we find he's the cousin of the youtube guy with the towel.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Even fasttech lists them as 22 amp...they very well could be but, its not a make or break amount to use or not use them in your device over 2 amps.

If you are concerned about that then only buy VTC4 cells and its not going to ever be an issue in any regulated mod you own.

That is true, someone else told me a couple of amps over wont cause damage or anything, so I think I will just use 25R's as they are so readiliy available. Just got to remember it is 20 amp, like nemesis vapour said, but like you said, 2 amps isnt make or break.

Also the comment "
he was methed outta his head when this event took place

owners of 3 local vape shops all said this guy was a accident bound to happen
" is the best thing I have read in weeks. I might even put that in my signature lol .

 

[conanthewarrior]

just a tad bit of info relating to this guy that had a mod explode: when the fire department gets called the police usually always show up too.SOP

now why wasn't the tv segment done at the time of the incident ? because when the coppers showed up to the scene they arrested the guy

he was methed outta his head when this event took place

owners of 3 local vape shops all said this guy was a accident bound to happen

Is your username after the band? If so, big respect! If it is the bible, stilll big respect, but exodus is killer! I did have to alter your quote slightly to make it one line, but I thought it deserved signature material lol.

 

[conanthewarrior]

in all honesty ,i just like the word itself

Thats bad ass enough. If it was the band, as I noticed you liked Kiss, I would of leapt about whilst istening to toxic waltz lol.

 

[conanthewarrior]

A

actually i never heard of the band "exodus". well not that i remember any way

Ahh, they are a pretty famous Thrash metal band from the 80's. Kirk hammett, lead guitarist of metallica, was original lead guitarist of exodus. They also realeased some good albums themselves, that is if you like thrash metal though. Bit of an acquired taste, the speed, and the sung/shouted vocals (not growled or anything, its thrash not death metal lol). I suggest the song toxic waltz for a fun,moderately fast song by them.

I like the chorus "Everybodies been doing the toxic waltz,kick your friend in the head and have a ball, come on and do the toxic waltz, come and slam your partner against the wall, Everyone's doing the toxic waltz good friendly violent fun that is good for all, get up off your a** and toxic waltz and if you cant walk you can always crawl"

 

[madmonkey]

Agree with a he'll of a lot I the first post. People new here would become much wiser on cells of it were stickied.

Only thing I had "issue" with is having to have the 510 screw sticking out by 2mm. Not sure if the Op realises just how much 2mm is. Virtually no screws stick out 2mm. My Tugboat V2 protrudes around 1.25mm. 2mm is a massive amount when we're talking about 510 connections.

Tanks, as in sub ohm clearo users I also agree. No place for them on a hybrid topcap. Most are sprung or flush. Some are even recessed which is even more an issue. As for rebuildable tanks, that's different. My goblin 510, in my opinion is suitable for use on a hybrid. Rebuildable tanks with a fixed deck should also be looked at case by case, as should drippers.

The centre positive of a cell can dent in, making the battery the issue with shorting. Definitely needs people to keep on checking their equipment if they're using a hybrid. Check things out every cell change, every atty change. Risk assess basically.

@NemesisVaper ...the only issue I have with your issue is being critical of me by splitting hairs when i was just trying to make a point...you have a valid point about the length of 2 mm's being quite long... but if you have ever read any of my "trying to help" posts in the past you would know that I write everything with the new vapor in mind that knows nothing about vaping in a way so they can understand....and keep in mind also, that in the US where the Imperial system, not the metric system is the main form of measurement...well...most people I've met can't eyeball an inch to save their life much let alone a mm when it's not even a measurement most of us use on a regular basis so that statement was made to made to reaffirm that the positive pen or screw must stick out quite clearly past the base of the connection and not just a gnat's ass hair.

Also, as I probably said above and in other places if it's not, some of the atty's have such soft metal in their positive pin screws like the JD Tech Manta V2 that you can smoosh and compress the screw head by tightening it down so even though it may have started out protruding far enough it can still end up being "pressed in" by screwing it down and pressing it against the battery...or as well as above also mentioned, you can over tighten the atty making a dent in the positive of the battery allowing it to touch the connection even if it is sticking out shorting it just the same....the bottom line is that almost all non RTA style tanks won't safely work on a hybrid and this is what can happen if you chance fate....1 mm, 2mm, 20 mm, a million mm just the same, if it's not sticking out far enough shit goes bad quick...period.

you're also right...the Samsung 20R is a 22 amp 2000 mah cell, and that's where the confusion with the 25R's comes from....and even originally the 20R was a 20 amp cell, I have 2 that still work, they're almost 2 years old. They're about ready for retirement but they still hold a charge just fine and do what they always have done. The really nice thing about the 25R's though is with that 100 amp spec'd Pulse limit is if you buy and use 25R's thinking that they're 22 amp batteries that the chance of them going off is incredibly rare. I am the one always saying don't play with fire and stay within the manufactorer's continuous drain limit ratings but with those batteries it's close enough that if you don't hold down the button for minutes at a time you should be fine.

I love mechs, I've been vaping for a couple years and I am from the group of vapors that started when mech's were still designed for and powered by protected ICR batteries that had a max continuous drain limit of 2C which usually meant that they topped at at 4-6 amps max discharge rate and were popular because they gave you a considerable more amount of run time than their eGo and 510 or 808/901 penstyle cousins. Back then "ultra low resistance" was considered to be 1.25 ohms and sub ohming was only done by "extrimests" with a "wish to hurt themselves." Obviously times have changed and the vape world has advanced in leaps and bounds faster than most things have, giving cell phone technology a run for it's money in terms of "advances" Mech's are being built now days with different materials with different application in mind than they were back then and the batteries we use in them are different as well. If you used an unprotected battery in a mech back then you would have been called insane. Now, if you use protected batteries in them you're being insane as you can't get the power of of a protected battery like that, they just don't make one with a high enough discharge current.

And it's true, mechs aren't the rage they were a year ago and with the new regulated mods they aren't as needed to get the extreme cloud chasing vapor as they were the only way, but they still have a place in the vape world and with the proper safety knowledge can be quite awesome and safe. With out the proper knowledge they can be just as dangerous because the only safety features on mech mods are the health and type of your battery and the knowledge and skills you possess in your head. Even though I have and love my Sig 150, I still have half a dozen mechs with drippers on them sitting next to me on my desk as I type this. I use a Vaporshark now for my ADV but for a good year and a couple months my main carry mod was either a Brass Nemesis I got from fasttech or a black Caravella clone with a Kayfun on top or a carto tank with a Diver V2. You can use mechs safely with tanks just fine, or cartos, or drippers, it's just knowing what you can use with what and making sure your battery can handle the amp drain the build on it requires and having battery you can trust to do the job. Sure there's a little more to it than that, but not much...especially with the help of ohm's law calculators and such.

The reason why we don't see more and more high drain IMR/INR/ICR batteries from what I can understand, and this may not be true or the whole story but it's the most reasonable excuse I've heard so far, is that for most applications companies are looking for max runtime over extra high discharge current. The pricing of batteries is determined mostly on it's MAH, not it's discharge rate which works out in our favor as we need the discharge rate more and take the highest discharge rate available with whatever mah it has it helps keep the cost of batteries for us down.

Speaking LG batteries, I would like to get my hands on some of the new one's y'all are talking about. I got a pair of HD2 2000 mah 25 amp continuous drain batteries for my Sig 150 to see how they would hold out. According to LG they're a new ICR chemistry blend that allows for a much higher C rating than the traditional 2C standard of the old ICR batteries. At first, even with 400 mah I felt like they didn't last any longer than my VTC 3's but after some time and use and a few charge cycles I think they're giving me a few extra puffs as they should.

They work fairly well but I don't think their pulse rate is much higher than their continuous drain limit. I say this because they will get warm if I do a heavy chain vaping session with my Sig 150 the same as my 25R's will....they don't get hot hot, just warm a little bit. I only run a .24 ohm dual parallel build on it at 70 watts. That should keep them within their specs even when they're close to needing to be recharged with the chipset pulling whatever power it needs to put out roughly 17.1 amps...the only batteries that always stay cool in that thing are my VTC3's I run in it....still...they are a solid performer with the Sig and I am thinking about getting a few more to see how they would hold up in single battery tube mechs...but with the HB6's out now I haven't decided yet it I should just go for them instead...

OK, I'll stop ranting and finish on this....I'd rather carry an extra battery with a higher Continous drain limit than one with a higher MAH...I have to carry a backpack everyday to work with me just like a little kid to keep my meds and tools and other things for work handy and I have a pouch just for vape stuff so an extra battery box in there is no big deal. Even though I know that there are many others who think my thinking is nuts and bigger MAH is better...I love my VTC 3 batteries. They're my favorite...followed by VTC 4's, and Samsung 20R's...I have others, LG's, panasonics, AW's, 25R's and so on, but for me the VTC 3 is tops...yup, I'm insane, I know...that's why I'm the "Mad" monkey

 

[NemesisVaper]

I wasn't being hyper critical. Chill

Like I said, I agree with what you're saying. A new vaper would likely take anything literally. If they did they'd never use a hybrid with anything. 2mm sounds like nothing, a tiny amount. Having had ridiculously shit clones with way over sized screws, 2mm is so long you wouldn't ever want a 510 pin to stick out that far, it wouldn't screw flush on many if any mods, that's all I was saying. You did specifically say no tanks at all, only drippers in your post. Again I wasn't trying to be a smart arse, just saying there are tanks out there suitable for a hybrid.

I gave up giving exact length 510 recommendations. All I say to people is if you have to ask it's probably not good. Checking their stuff regularly is a must. Check the cells, the atty, the mod and the top cap. It takes less than a minute for me to totally disassemble and reassemble my Nemesis in 18650 mode, switch and all. With a hybrid topcap on it takes even less, no topcap screw to piss about with.

Loads of things can go wrong with a hybrid. You can have the perfect rda with a rock hard steel pin, but you can end up screwing it on so tightly that it makes the positive terminal cave in and give you a hard short anyway. Sometimes having the centre pin very long makes this more likely to happen.

Do not misconstrued my use of " as me being sarcastic or clever, merely as a way to de-emphasize the word issue, as in, it's not an issue, just something I wouldn't want someone to take literally. Like you said, and like I meant, it's not a big deal.

The 20R is definitely a 22A cell. I have all the manufacturer spec sheets for the cells I've used. Why? Because I'm a sad bastard They list up to 20A on the capacity table (they give capacities at different amp draws) but the cell is rated to top out at 22A max.

HD2s aren't species for pulse. LG don't mention pulse discharge for any of their cells. Continuous discharge only. Anything else is down to user discretion I guess.

Fuck all wrong with VTC 3s. I use my LG HB6s to death. They're bloody annoying though. They last about as long as me shagging Jessica Alba.... About three seconds.

 

[5150sick]

How about my take on the issue:

There is no good reason to have ANY Hybrid Mech Mod on the market.

I am saddened to say that some people only care about making money, selling two products at the same time that are dangerous when used together, pushing the sucker out the door with no safety information, then making fast money off the next sucker that walks through the door, selling two products at the same time that are dangerous when used together, pushing that sucker out the door with no safety information, etc...
all day long knowing if it blows up in their face all they have to say if their lawyer calls them is "Here, I bought this from China sue THEM" knowing all along that is impossible.

This has to be the case or a B&M WOULD NOT sell a Hybrid Mech and a Subohm tank at once to the same guy!!!

Once the FDA deems I guarantee you that Hybrid mech mods will become illegal.

A mod needs to accept any atty, tank, clearo, etc.. that can screw on to the 510 connection before it will be deemed safe to use by any government agency.

We got along fine for years without hybrid top cap mechs and we will get along fine when they are all dumped into the ocean or recycled into beer cans or something.

I have reported THREE MOD EXPLOSIONS THIS WEEK in the News & Media section and every one had a Hybrid Mech Mod with a fucking subohm tank.

The last one was a "Pharaoh" (Smpl Clone) and a Herakles Tank

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/wyandotte-man-injured-smoking-exploding-vape-pen.115430/

The one before that and Aspire Atlantis and a Hybrid Mech Mod

http://vapingunderground.com/thread...lly-injured-when-e-cigarette-explodes.112661/

Just like a broken record that says "FDA, we can't be trusted regulate ourselves, come in and ban our way of quitting smoking" over, and over again. - 5150 (Once Again We Are Our Own Worse Enemy)

 

[NemesisVaper]

I get where you're coming from. Can't say I agree, but we don't have to agree on everything.

It's lack of labeling, instruction and care that make hybrids dangerous. That and people that progress too quickly not knowing what the hell they're buying.

Wotofo did it right with the phantom. Hybrid and standard topcap in the box and the user can decide.

I know there's plenty of mishaps with hybrids, I get that and it's worrying. You can apply this to any other potentially dangerous item, household chemical etc etc. No need for drain cleaner when you can rod the drain out, that would save people getting poisoned etc. At some point we must place the responsibility on the user. The drain cleaner is clearly labeled. Hybrid topcap mods aren't always the same, which does definitely need to change.

If I'm building low I'll use a hybrid topcap. My Nemesis thanks me for it. Connection from atty to cell is cleaner thus no little black marks on the switch and battery from arcing. I'm perfectly able to assess suitability of the atty for the topcap. I know some aren't, but that's not my fault. I also know some shops sell a hybrid paired with an unsuitable topper, but again, that's not my fault.

People will always find a way to hurt themselves. Some don't know any better, some just aren't too bright on the practical side of things and some think they know everything and know nothing. It's going to happen with anything.

Don't recycle them into beer cans. Give them to me. I'll put them to good use and do so safely.

 

[madmonkey]

I wasn't being hyper critical. Chill

Like I said, I agree with what you're saying. A new vaper would likely take anything literally. If they did they'd never use a hybrid with anything. 2mm sounds like nothing, a tiny amount. Having had ridiculously shit clones with way over sized screws, 2mm is so long you wouldn't ever want a 510 pin to stick out that far, it wouldn't screw flush on many if any mods, that's all I was saying. You did specifically say no tanks at all, only drippers in your post. Again I wasn't trying to be a smart arse, just saying there are tanks out there suitable for a hybrid.

I gave up giving exact length 510 recommendations. All I say to people is if you have to ask it's probably not good. Checking their stuff regularly is a must. Check the cells, the atty, the mod and the top cap. It takes less than a minute for me to totally disassemble and reassemble my Nemesis in 18650 mode, switch and all. With a hybrid topcap on it takes even less, no topcap screw to piss about with.

Loads of things can go wrong with a hybrid. You can have the perfect rda with a rock hard steel pin, but you can end up screwing it on so tightly that it makes the positive terminal cave in and give you a hard short anyway. Sometimes having the centre pin very long makes this more likely to happen.

Do not misconstrued my use of " as me being sarcastic or clever, merely as a way to de-emphasize the word issue, as in, it's not an issue, just something I wouldn't want someone to take literally. Like you said, and like I meant, it's not a big deal.

The 20R is definitely a 22A cell. I have all the manufacturer spec sheets for the cells I've used. Why? Because I'm a sad bastard They list up to 20A on the capacity table (they give capacities at different amp draws) but the cell is rated to top out at 22A max.

HD2s aren't species for pulse. LG don't mention pulse discharge for any of their cells. Continuous discharge only. Anything else is down to user discretion I guess.

Fuck all wrong with VTC 3s. I use my LG HB6s to death. They're bloody annoying though. They last about as long as me shagging Jessica Alba.... About three seconds.

@NemesisVaper ... I think we could be friends in time... I've been known to be a smart ass on more than one or three occasions, and if you love to use hybrid caps and feel that confident go for it...I did too till one arc'd and ruined a 100 dollar atty that was supposedly designed to be used with the hybrid cap and mod made by the same maker, and it was authentic....ruined my whole day and my opinion of the quality of their products...it was a bummer since they were my favorite....ended up selling everything of their's out of spite...

Now i'll split hairs with you just for the fun of it When Samsung originally came out with the 20R the 15M was still easily available instead of having to know where to look for it. Since the 15M was a 1500 mah 25 amp battery they made the first 20R's a 2000 mah 20 amp battery....as they started to cut back and phase out heavy production of the 15M the 20R was redone as a 22 amp battery to kind of "middle of the road" it. If you have all the spec sheets then you should have the first gen one and you can find this info even on Samsungs website...well you could unless they took it down in the last six weeks...I don't check every day

I don't have any HB6's yet but I love my VTC3's and you can't hurt their feelings because they know they have a good loving home and are well fed and taken care of I agree about LG's not having a pulse limit...again, I am having hard time finding good detailed info but I have a feeling it's because of their ICR chemistry that they're tinkering with. They work good up to 25 amps but when I turn the box all the way up just to see how they react they get warm on their own separate from the mod like if they're trying to tell me that their limit is the limit and they'll get really pissed and I'll regret it if I push them to 25.1

I am inclined to agree with @5150sick when it comes to hybrids. Yes people will always find a way to hurt themselves, it doesn't mean we have to help them on the way. History is full of examples of where the people were left to their own judgement and devices and the outcome is what it is and at other times those judgments were made for them and their devices taken away....although I don't agree with taking freedoms away...with the over 2 dozen mech mods I've bought, sold, and traded and the various attys, cartos, clearos, and drippers I've run them with both an inline volt meter and a multimeter (and burned the shit out of my fingers a couple times in the name of science doing it,) and the difference in the most basic of voltage drop tests didn't warrant the danger of a hybrid cap being nessicary in my opinion. I'd rather have a .5 volt drop and seriously reduce the "shit that can go wrong factor by 5" than have a .4 volt drop and increase the danger by the same exponent.

As for me saying "no tanks at all" in my first post...your right I did....and I agree in retrospect it's possible to use some RTA's with a hybrid cap, but I still wouldn't do it. I've done it and I didn't see the value of doing it over the risk...especially with something like a Kayfun clone that has a positive screw that turns way too easily like one of mine does and could never get it to sit where I felt comfortable with it...I have an authentic Kayfun Lite Plus V2...can't adjust the screw on that...in theory the pin sticks out far enough for a hybrid...I screwed it on, took one hit, the hair stood up on the back of my neck, and I took it right off....it didn't short....but it did make my spider sense tingle.

And I am being chill...and you're right, a new vaper can take anything literally...so tell them that you need a 2mm pin so they won't try it at all

Be as cleaver and witty as you'd like...hell, I'll loan you my soapbox anytime, I am just "hyper critical" about safety and when Sick or I or someone does a post with the concern of the well being and safety of the vape community as a whole in mind....not just about the physical implications of someone getting hurt which I care greatly about doing my best to avoid at all costs...but also the future well being of the vape community. The more people hurt themselves and get the public's attention by doing so in their ignorance they hurt the rest of us giving the ANTZ more ammunition for their arguments and the FDA more leverage to take all of our freedoms away...sorry if it's something I seem uptight about and don't feel like being "clever and witty" about either. I care about the safety and well being of all vapors....past, current, and future potential and I work hard when my day job doesn't get in the way of it like it has the last two weeks to fight for vapors rights in Washington State and to help as many new vapors get off to a good start and on the right path for their vaping journey to stay tobacco free....

Here...I'll step down and you can have this ::::slides soapbox over to @NemesisVaper ::::: your rebuttal good sir?

ps....I also the agree that the world needs more beer cans, maybe not brass and copper ones, but we can use that to make the gear to brew the beer in so it would be a win win for all

 

[NemesisVaper]

. My use of 20R must have come after the change. I've only got a copy of the latest spec sheet. Knowing Samsung, it's the exact same cell, just they were prepared to sacrifice some of their massive conservatism without too much worry.

I'm definitely not well versed in the chemistry behind cells, but from what I can gather, LGs hybrid tech, while having aspects to of an ICR chemistry cell is so far removed from one it's hard to see just by looking at the ingredients list. Kind of like adding flour to butter and sugar and getting a cake, but if you add flour to yeast, water and salt you get bread. They give the same kind of list of mistreatment and their results as those from IMR tech, such as "Dropped from 1 meter onto an oak board : No explosion, no fire. Heated to 140c in an oven : No explosion, no fire" etc. Of any warmth I've felt from a HB6 or HD2, I'd guess 95% was from the atomiser heating the cell rather than from the cell itself. I regularly Vape at 0.15 with them and they're cool. Like I say though, they don't last long.

You'd have to pry my hybrid topcap out of my cold dead hand. If you did, cause of death most certainly wouldn't be a venting battery. I check things too often to get caught out. Sure something could catastrophically fail, but I could get knocked down by a bus crossing the street tomorrow. If being as safe as. I can be.

With a standard topcap, anyone could put a battery in a mech backwards and give themselves just as nasty a Crack in the hand.

My golden rules:
Check your stuff every time you change batteries

If the screw on an atty needs adjusting out to be suitable.... It's NOT suitable, unless it's reverse threaded and super high quality.

If you have doubts it's not suitable for a hybrid topcap, it's likely not suitable, trust your instinct.

For me a hybrid topcap on my Nemesis isn't about voltage drop. It's about not scaring the cells with black arc marks and totally eliminating the warm ( not hot) button I get below 0.2ohms.

If people are building at 0.15, like I am they need to be savvy enough to use a hybrid safely.

I know vaping is in the spotlight and I get it. However, I'm not running scared from the scrutiny. If stupid people do stupid stuff, they'll just end up finding other stupid things to do, banning hybrids won't do much. By stupid people I mean those that chance it or the people who sell hybrid mods to People in a "my first mech mod" kit. Smoking causes thousands of house fires a year, but there's not much fuss made about it, not as much as you think there would be. Don't see why the odd stupid act should see hybrids outlawed, they're not banning cigarettes because people burn their families to death with them.

People make shit decisions, that's always been the case. No need to deprive everyone of something just to account for the few that are hard of thinking.

Any incident of shorting mechs is bad news. I don't want to see anyone hurt. In the brand scheme of things though hybrid topcap mishaps are small fry. I'm way more worried about shitty rewrapped cells than hybrids.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I must ask, not being versed in mechanical mods, I understand a hybrid top cap allows the RDA to connect straight to the positive pin-how was this done before in mechs? Was there a place to screw in that had a connection runniing from the positive and negative on the top?