"Grades" of batteries?

[conanthewarrior]

Hi people, I tried to think how I could ask this without making a thread, but couldn't.

The other day, we was talking about re wraps that companies who don't make their own battery do, but we don't know what grade they are.

What is grading in a battery? I've learned my MAH, DIscharge rate, how to charge safely, but I really don't know what a battery grade is.

Anyone with more knowledge who could answer this would be great.

 

[State O' Flux]

To my limited understanding, there are grades 'A', 'B' and 'C.

• Grade C batteries are used, and can come from nearly any application. If they don't have overly damaged end plates or dents, and hold a charge, they pass.
  
• Grade B are used or new "seconds", but typically are in better condition than Cs, often taken from lap top packs or other multi-battery applications, and hold a charge at a higher value. I do not know what that value is.
  
• Grade A are, or rather should be, new batteries. I'm aware of some unscrupulous sellers identifying B grade re-wrap batteries as brand new.

 

[conanthewarrior]

To my limited understanding, there are grades 'A', 'B' and 'C.

• Grade C batteries are used, and can come from nearly any application. If they don't have overly damaged end plates or dents, and hold a charge, they pass.
  
• Grade B are used or new "seconds", but typically are in better condition than Cs, often taken from lap top packs or other multi-battery applications, and hold a charge at a higher value. I do not know what that value is.
  
• Grade A are, or rather should be, new batteries. I'm aware of some unscrupulous sellers identifying B grade re-wrap batteries as brand new.

Thank you, thats a good, clear answer. So they remove them from laptop batteries and sell them on? Thats mad.Are they old or new laptop batteries, as I am just about to replace my laptop battery lol

 

[Zamazam]

Thank you, thats a good, clear answer. So they remove them from laptop batteries and sell them on? Thats mad.Are they old or new laptop batteries, as I am just about to replace my laptop battery lol

Usually old, or unsold inventory. That's why most of us stick with either LG's or Samsung's.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Fair enough. I just got two old ones myself out of a battery I will never use, don't know if they will be safe though They are 18650's but from an old camcorder that took tape, they say SAMSUNG ICR18650-18, SD1282, and there is a sticker that says EA11T914A.

 

[Zamazam]

Don't use ICR batteries. They are older chemistry, not really safe for vaping. The "BOOM" risk is a bit high with ICR's. IMR batteries will vent gas when they are shorted, ICR batteries tend to do the boom thing. Don't use them, send them to the recyclers.

 

[conanthewarrior]

A

Don't use ICR batteries. They are older chemistry, not really safe for vaping. The "BOOM" risk is a bit high with ICR's. IMR batteries will vent gas when they are shorted, ICR batteries tend to do the boom thing. Don't use them, send them to the recyclers.

Ahh thought I had two free batteries. Oh well I will just buy two genuine samsungs on Saturday, they will be with me by tuesday and are only a tenner for 2, so might as well.

 

[Slurp812]

I tore apart a laptop battery. 9 18650's. But they were crappy low current ones, as expected. My G/F wanted to use them as spares, I said um, no.

 

[State O' Flux]

A

Ahh thought I had two free batteries. Oh well I will just buy two genuine samsungs on Saturday, they will be with me by tuesday and are only a tenner for 2, so might as well.

Once you've seen the level of damage a battery in "thermal runaway" can do to flesh... spending that extra few bucks to get premium batteries from a reputable vendor, seems a relative bargain.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Once you've seen the level of damage a battery in "thermal runaway" can do to flesh... spending that extra few bucks to get premium batteries from a reputable vendor, seems a relative bargain.

Do you have any images of thermal runnaway, or anywhere I can see some? I want to know what I am dealing with. I understand IMR are safer in that they vent, while ICR are the boomy kind. EDIT: I also wish I got the D2 charger, as I have no idea the voltages of my batteries when they are charged/discharged, just wanted to ensure they was a safe level.

 

[Sir Vapesalot]

Theres a couple videos on YouTube of batteries that are intentionally shorted to demonstrate thermal runaway, almighty Google is your friend

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Do you have any images of thermal runnaway, or anywhere I can see some? I want to know what I am dealing with. I understand IMR are safer in that they vent, while ICR are the boomy kind. EDIT: I also wish I got the D2 charger, as I have no idea the voltages of my batteries when they are charged/discharged, just wanted to ensure they was a safe level.

Takes a little bit to get hot enough to go into thermal runaway, watch the whole video.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Compare and contrast the ICR short I posted in that post to this, an IMR , which is actually probably the worst IMR vent I've seen, generally the venting is actually even less dramatic (skip to 5 minutes or so):

This obviously can still be somewhat dangerous and the battery does get hot, but I think you can see they are two completely different levels of safety between ICR and IMR.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Takes a little bit to get hot enough to go into thermal runaway, watch the whole video.

I will remember to only use IMR batteries, that was insane! So An IMR tends to 'vent' by releasing pressure, whilst an ICR tends to explode to release it lol? The vent option seems much safer!

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I will remember to only use IMR batteries, that was insane! So An IMR tends to 'vent' by releasing pressure, whilst an ICR tends to explode to release it lol? The vent option seems much safer!

No, the ICR can vent by releasing pressure as well, they tend to have similar vent designs, it's just a different chemistry so generally once the IMR vents it kills the battery and all is good, but the ICR is generally not that way (you can see it vents a few times in the video but that doesn't stop it from exploding at the end). That's really the difference. But yeah either way your conclusion is correct

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I seen an image a month ago where somebody took the wrapper off a ultra-fire,underneath the wrapper is was a samsung 20r

i don't know this to be 100% true,and i wont buy an ultra-fire to find out either

Ultrafire and Trustfire are actually very interesting from a business perspective. Basically there are legal disputes in china about who has the right to use those names. So lots of companies use those names. Some of the companies are OK, others are very shady. So when you buy one of those batteries you really have no clue what you're getting - it could be from one of the OK companies, or one of the shady ones. Your story above sounds like one of the shady ones (although the 20R is actually a quite good battery so maybe that worked out well ). Even the OK ones are fairly low quality batteries, but they're at least not dangerous or misrepresented.

By the way the video I posted, the fact that it's ultrafire only matters because the protection board was a dud - it had nothing on it. So the battery was being sold as protected when it actually wasn't. If you buy an unprotected high quality ICR battery and do the same test it will likely do the same thing, which is why it's so important to protect ICR batteries no matter how good they are.

 

[richardward77]

A

Ahh thought I had two free batteries. Oh well I will just buy two genuine samsungs on Saturday, they will be with me by tuesday and are only a tenner for 2, so might as well.

Where in the UK do you live. I live in Birmingham.

 

[Mike H.]

A samsung 20r is a quality battery...Trustfire is far from known as being a quality battery so i would highly doubt it.

If for any reason ONE trustfire battery was known to work well i might think it could possibly be true.

 

[richardward77]

My first mod came with trustfire batts and I never had a prob with them I just stopped using them as everyone said they couldn't be trusted excuse the pun I only use Samsung or LG now just to be on the safe side.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Where in the UK do you live. I live in Birmingham.

I'm down south in Canvey island, Essex. I'm stil working out who the UK vapers are on here at the moment lol.

 

[richardward77]

I don't think there's that many here from UK to be fair most of the UK vapers go on UK vapers forum I much prefer it here though more helpful and friendly here. Iv got a vape shop about 10 mins walk from where I live which is where I buy my mechs and regulated devices Kanthal and cotton and also rda's and my tanks like my kayfun and lemo drop.I just get my diy flavours online from flavor art UK order in the morning always get it following day brilliant service.